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Nostalrius Servers Issued Court Order to Close Shop

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  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 603
    SBFord said:
    I can guarantee that they have conducted the appropriate research into the matter and found it lacking in that respect.
    If it's the same team who's research has been guiding WoW's development these passed few years I wouldn't put too much stock in their findings.

  • BosscoreBosscore Member UncommonPosts: 8
    Talonsin said:
    I dont understand why game companies do not offer this as an alternative...  I'm with Blizzard taking action against people who try and profit from their IP's but I would think they would see the opportunity here.

    The server was 100% free, they didn't have a monetization system. 
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    Scambug said:
    SBFord said:
    I can guarantee that they have conducted the appropriate research into the matter and found it lacking in that respect.
    If it's the same team who's research has been guiding WoW's development these passed few years I wouldn't put too much stock in their findings.

    Blizzard's bottom line, as it is with any for-profit company, is to make money. If hosting vanilla servers would bring in a lot of money over a long period of time, they'd do it, especially in light of falling subscription numbers in the live version. That they will not do so speaks volumes.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Scambug said:

    But more importantly I wonder if it's finally sinking in their thick skulls that people don't like where WoW has been headed these last years and that there's a lot of money to be made with official vanilla servers, much like NCsoft has done with Lineage 2.
    Not sure, I bet the current WoW producers never played Vanilla WoW..........they think it's something for old farts.

    As an excuse they always say that Azeroth is an evolving world and you can't get back in time.
    Fair enough.
    But what they don't understand is that people don't want to necessarily play the old Vanilla version of the game, the just want to play WoW with the Vanilla mechanics.

    So it is fine to look forward, not backward, evolve the story-line as you see fit, bring new expansions, but at least they should reintroduce some of the old mechanics that made Vanilla WoW something special.

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    But what they don't understand is that people don't want to necessarily play the old Vanilla version of the game, the just want to play WoW with the Vanilla mechanics.

    So cake and eat it too? :D

    What you're suggesting sounds great, but imagine the resources it would take to bring, if they even had it, the old code up to today's standards and to implement the new file system, yet also add in the quality of life and gameplay improvements. Sounds like a lot of work equaling time and money they'd rather spend elsewhere.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    SBFord said:
    Scambug said:
    SBFord said:
    I can guarantee that they have conducted the appropriate research into the matter and found it lacking in that respect.
    If it's the same team who's research has been guiding WoW's development these passed few years I wouldn't put too much stock in their findings.

    Blizzard's bottom line, as it is with any for-profit company, is to make money. If hosting vanilla servers would bring in a lot of money over a long period of time, they'd do it, especially in light of falling subscription numbers in the live version. That they will not do so speaks volumes.
    I think we need to be clear on something here. Blizzard is out to make money and could easily profit by adopting emulator support much like Daybreak did with Project 99. It isn't even run by Blizzard and they could still profit off of this smaller genre.

    The issue isn't about money though. It is because Blizzard only wants mainstream market share and won't do it. One company recognizes who their fans are and supports them without much cost overhead at all ... while another chooses to totally ignore a portion of their own fans. This is what is made apparent to fans of older Wow versions.

    This CAN be resolved. There is precedence for it but Blizzards says stupid things like they lost their own code when it's emulators running these versions and NOT the old code other than the client. They clearly are not taking this seriously and are throwing BS feedback at us with little thought.

    You stay sassy!

  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 503
    edited April 2016
    Zarriya said:
    This shows how much desire there is to play vanilla WoW.
    Not really. Private servers dont have enough player capacity to maintain a paid service running. Meaning, WoW has millions of paying players whilea private server has like 1k-5k free people? If Official WoW had that many people (even paying) it would shutdown so fast we never see it coming.

    What this(private servers of existing games) does show is that a number of people dont want to pay for games.
    You are so wrong...this vanilla server had close to 1 million accounts..

    It shows that there is HUGE interest into playing Vanilla + TBC...sure private server capacity might be smaller, but if Blizzard was to fire up a server it would be huge.... I could easily see approx. 1 million people resubbing for Vanilla WoW...
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    edited April 2016
    fs23otm said:
    Zarriya said:
    This shows how much desire there is to play vanilla WoW.
    Not really. Private servers dont have enough player capacity to maintain a paid service running. Meaning, WoW has millions of paying players whilea private server has like 1k-5k free people? If Official WoW had that many people (even paying) it would shutdown so fast we never see it coming.

    What this(private servers of existing games) does show is that a number of people dont want to pay for games.
    You are so wrong...

    It shows that there is HUGE interest into playing Vanilla + TBC...sure private server capacity might be smaller, but if Blizzard was to fire up a server it would be huge.... I could easily see approx. 1 million people resubbing for Vanilla WoW...
    This is true. There was over 100k active accounts on Nost alone that wasn't allowed to advertise at all or officially make a profit. This is pirate radio folks. There is a reason behind why this demand exists and that is what should be debated.

    Slap an official Blizzard label on an emulator and it will instantly be 10 times more popular.

    You stay sassy!

  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,796

    baphamet said:



    If Blizzard open a Vanilla Server. Thats even more money going to other project it just don't help the game over all. Then have to maintain 2 types of games with content update to keep it making it's own money with out leeching it from there main game even more.

    Yes people will go back and check it out, but with out content update people just will get bored and move on in how little or more people that would play it.


    the nos devs offered to do it for them for free, it's been a year and nos only got more and more popular, which is what lead to them getting shut down.

    if blizz can't do it or refuses to they should let nos operate as long as they are not making any money off of it, which they weren't.

    this isn't uncharted waters, again p99 is a private server that is recognized by DBG and allowed to function because of the same reasons you mentioned in your post.





    When it's free not from Blizzard, people have less complain about the game. What if Blizzard had control then people will tell Blizzard fix this or update this, do that, do this. Then is not cheap anymore if people are paying it off there own pocket. Just more of a mess to have one sever going with out Blizzard thinking is it worth it. Look at old the game is there many exploit holes or bugs people can just get around the code need over hall work. That money taken from the main game to keep one running.
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    edited April 2016

    baphamet said:



    If Blizzard open a Vanilla Server. Thats even more money going to other project it just don't help the game over all. Then have to maintain 2 types of games with content update to keep it making it's own money with out leeching it from there main game even more.

    Yes people will go back and check it out, but with out content update people just will get bored and move on in how little or more people that would play it.


    the nos devs offered to do it for them for free, it's been a year and nos only got more and more popular, which is what lead to them getting shut down.

    if blizz can't do it or refuses to they should let nos operate as long as they are not making any money off of it, which they weren't.

    this isn't uncharted waters, again p99 is a private server that is recognized by DBG and allowed to function because of the same reasons you mentioned in your post.





    When it's free not from Blizzard, people have less complain about the game. What if Blizzard had control then people will tell Blizzard fix this or update this, do that, do this. Then is not cheap anymore if people are paying it off there own pocket. Just more of a mess to have one sever going with out Blizzard thinking is it worth it. Look at old the game is there many exploit holes or bugs people can just get around the code need over hall work. That money taken from the main game to keep one running.
    Nost and Kronos have a support and Bug tracker system. Bugs do get fixed. If the game was official and could be funded it would allow for real new content much like some of the classic games now obtain.

    I have already established in a previous reply that vanilla servers largely maintain a population that does not cross over to live Wow. These are lost souls who loved previous Wow editions and cannot identify with current retail. Blizzard gains more players by officially supporting emulators rather than ignoring them.

    You stay sassy!

  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Blizzard has stated again and again that they cannot and will not provide a vanilla server... period.

    This is clearly a move to protect their intellectual property (which is their right) and try to force players who would otherwise not play WoW again on their servers, to return in order to get their WoW fix.  Since there is an alternative place to play WoW, these people choose the alternative... not necessarily because it's free as much as it's the WoW they prefer to play when faced with the current incarnation.

    People who play on private servers endure DoS attacks, buggy code, cheating, you name it... and yet they still play.  There are free games out there that aren't subject to as many headaches that they could be playing... so it's not about the fact that it's free.  It comes down to the fact that it's the game they prefer to play.  

    If your favorite game was on a private server... I'm pretty sure you would be playing it... headaches and all, because it's your favorite game.  Private servers exist because there is a niche audience out there for them.  If that niche were filled elsewhere, they would be there instead.


    All you EverQuest fans could be out of a game in the snap of two fingers if the owner of the intellectual property said shut it all down, shut it all down right this instant.  Where would you all be?  Without a game you prefer to play.
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    I feel forced to point out something here.

    People keep using the letter of law as their defense to the actions taken by Blizzard. The law is NOT something you are to blindly hide behind. Law and policy is constructed over long, hard and well informed debates about what is the most fare and best possible solution to resolve modern and evolving issue that exist. They are meant to be fluid and changing and when new issues arise that are not resolved properly to the fullest possible extent, pleasing the majority involved you reopen the debate and find better ways to resolve things.

    Any decent lawyer on the planet will tell you this. Address why this is happening and find the best solution that helps all involved.

    This is not what is happening currently.

    You stay sassy!

  • ZarriyaZarriya Member UncommonPosts: 446
    fs23otm said:
    Zarriya said:
    This shows how much desire there is to play vanilla WoW.
    Not really. Private servers dont have enough player capacity to maintain a paid service running. Meaning, WoW has millions of paying players whilea private server has like 1k-5k free people? If Official WoW had that many people (even paying) it would shutdown so fast we never see it coming.

    What this(private servers of existing games) does show is that a number of people dont want to pay for games.
    You are so wrong...this vanilla server had close to 1 million accounts..

    It shows that there is HUGE interest into playing Vanilla + TBC...sure private server capacity might be smaller, but if Blizzard was to fire up a server it would be huge.... I could easily see approx. 1 million people resubbing for Vanilla WoW...
    Aye, if you read Ford's article above you will see there is plenty of interest. SOE/Daybreak  allows p1999 to exist, eventually SOE hosted their own vanilla servers (which unfortunately were not so vanilla) and they are very popular.  Whenever I log into p19999 there are about 1000 people online. Nostralius had thousands.
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    edited April 2016
    Tamanous said:

    baphamet said:



    If Blizzard open a Vanilla Server. Thats even more money going to other project it just don't help the game over all. Then have to maintain 2 types of games with content update to keep it making it's own money with out leeching it from there main game even more.

    Yes people will go back and check it out, but with out content update people just will get bored and move on in how little or more people that would play it.


    the nos devs offered to do it for them for free, it's been a year and nos only got more and more popular, which is what lead to them getting shut down.

    if blizz can't do it or refuses to they should let nos operate as long as they are not making any money off of it, which they weren't.

    this isn't uncharted waters, again p99 is a private server that is recognized by DBG and allowed to function because of the same reasons you mentioned in your post.





    When it's free not from Blizzard, people have less complain about the game. What if Blizzard had control then people will tell Blizzard fix this or update this, do that, do this. Then is not cheap anymore if people are paying it off there own pocket. Just more of a mess to have one sever going with out Blizzard thinking is it worth it. Look at old the game is there many exploit holes or bugs people can just get around the code need over hall work. That money taken from the main game to keep one running.
    Nost and Kronos have a support and Bug tracker system. Bugs do get fixed. If the game was official and could be funded it would allow for real new content much like some of the classic games now obtain.

    I have already established in a previous reply that vanilla servers largely maintain a population that does not cross over to live Wow. These are lost souls who loved previous Wow editions and cannot identify with current retail. Blizzard gains more players by officially supporting emulators rather than ignoring them.
    Blizzard does not go after all the emulators servers and there are alot out on the net. When it becomes a problem starting making money off there own IP. Offcially supporting emulators seem good for many eyes but bad in the long run, does not have control of group of people trying make money off there IP that that group didn't make. If Blizzard did Offcially supported it then they have to be part of it making sure they playing by the rules what they can do what they can't do.

    I'm sure people that play Vanilla miss that 40 man raids and long waits to find there groups. When it didn't work for alot MMO this day of age that went with the same idea.:)

    But I don't have the power to tell Blizzard what they can do what they can't do. I'm a player like many other we all think whats best for WoW but there so many of us with ideas that never work well with others. Yes Blizzard still can do it and don't want too.
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    SBFord said:
    But what they don't understand is that people don't want to necessarily play the old Vanilla version of the game, the just want to play WoW with the Vanilla mechanics.

    So cake and eat it too? :D

    What you're suggesting sounds great, but imagine the resources it would take to bring, if they even had it, the old code up to today's standards and to implement the new file system, yet also add in the quality of life and gameplay improvements. Sounds like a lot of work equaling time and money they'd rather spend elsewhere.

    Oh c'mon, now.
    Who said that they need to bring the old code back?

    Implementing new mechanics inspired by old mechanics doesn't equal copy/pasting old code.

    It's the same excuse I hear for EQ "No one would play EQ today"
    Damn right, no one would play EQ as it was exactly in 1999, so not many people would play WoW as it was in 2004 (though the success of Nostalrius begs to differ), but they can refresh those old mechanics and make it current.

    I am talking about the mechanics that made MMOs Social, not just the glorified Multiplayer games they are now.
    MMOs need to go back to what they were intended for....Social games.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,202
    laserit said:
    Well let me play devil's advocate here

    I have a couple points. First one is copyright vs a patent. If I invest fuckwads of cash and invent something I only have a limited time to cash in. 20 years in the U.S. which was recently changed from 17 which I disagree with, it should have stayed at 17.

    What makes the games industry so special that there intellectual property is perpetually protected while my intellectual property is not. Sorry but I think that is fucking bullshit.

    My second point is and I bring this up because of a couple rulings in the EU for which France resides. Millions of people purchased and paid for copies of WoW and also payed for the subs for years and years. Blizzard ceased providing them with the product that they legally purchased. Through Blizzard or a licensed third party, consumers who payed for a product should be able to use that product.

    There are many things in the Entertainment Industry that totally stink. They should be held just as accountable as the rest of us businesses that provide products to our customers.
    Your first point is not valid because the WoW handwritten code it is not an idea or new invention as the code used is already around that  you could patent.  If they had created a new coding language then it would be patented.  It is actually a product that is created and retailed which means it is sold under a copyright which can be extended. 

    Your second point...so no one can play WoW anymore in France?  They still have their product they just do not like the product anymore.  I would bet that would be a loser in court as the product is still available.

    They are accountable to their customers.  Cause if the gamers do not like it they leave and the company goes out of business.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,202
    baphamet said:
     Scorchien said:
    They are stealing .. potential customer and falsley representing a product ... let me guess if it was your business and product you would be ok with that ?
    nope. falsely representing a product is not stealing when no money is being made, that is why so many private servers are allowed to function without a lawsuit.

     i'm also willing to bet most would not play on a wow live server because they want to play vanilla, a completely different version of the game.

    IMO blizzard needs to take a page out of DBG's book and allow this like they allow p99 if blizz is not going to have these type of servers.




    using the code without permission is stealing.  If I take your car for a joy ride but do not keep it or sell it I still stole it.  It is called theft by unauthorized use, but still theft.  Most likely when they are small they are not worth suing.  Blizzard is not desperate for hype at the moment so they do not have to copy DBG.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Actually, if no money was being made off of this private server at all-well, then legally I don't see how Blizzard can sue the owners of the site or tell them to take the game down. I thought there was some random law about that but guess I'm wrong.

    Smile

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,202
    Stizzled said:
    Yeah, this just blindsided my entire guild today, it's a damn shame. Too bad for Blizzard though, we just picked up the pieces and moved to a TBC server. We're sorry if we don't want to play your current, shitty version of WoW. We still love the game you created, but we aren't going to be forced to play what it has become.

    People can call us whatever they want, if Blizzard won't provide what we're looking for, at a reasonable price, then we're always going to go somewhere else. It's simple supply and demand.

    It's funny to see so many talking about cancelling their live subs and not getting the expac now. If only they would follow through on those empty threats.
    You are not "going to go somewhere else" you are stealing to get what you want.  Do not make it sound like you are just going to another game.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,202
    Tamanous said:
    SBFord said:
    Scambug said:
    SBFord said:
    I can guarantee that they have conducted the appropriate research into the matter and found it lacking in that respect.
    If it's the same team who's research has been guiding WoW's development these passed few years I wouldn't put too much stock in their findings.

    Blizzard's bottom line, as it is with any for-profit company, is to make money. If hosting vanilla servers would bring in a lot of money over a long period of time, they'd do it, especially in light of falling subscription numbers in the live version. That they will not do so speaks volumes.
    I think we need to be clear on something here. Blizzard is out to make money and could easily profit by adopting emulator support much like Daybreak did with Project 99. It isn't even run by Blizzard and they could still profit off of this smaller genre.

    The issue isn't about money though. It is because Blizzard only wants mainstream market share and won't do it. One company recognizes who their fans are and supports them without much cost overhead at all ... while another chooses to totally ignore a portion of their own fans. This is what is made apparent to fans of older Wow versions.

    This CAN be resolved. There is precedence for it but Blizzards says stupid things like they lost their own code when it's emulators running these versions and NOT the old code other than the client. They clearly are not taking this seriously and are throwing BS feedback at us with little thought.

    Precedence from a failing company to try and get people to play their game.  Not great precedence.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,202
    SBFord said:
    Herase said:
    Why? People do realize this was a voluntary project right and no profits were being made of this?

    Even so, are we honestly going to say blizz, a multi million dollar company was upset over a tiny private server?

    Someone said would I care if I was blizz? Fuck no, why would I? The only time It would cross my mind is if I knew I was doing a utter shit job and someone was doing it better than me.

    When people cheer and jump up an down to these kinds of things when it has no effect on them what so ever, it tends to be out of fear or desperation.

    So I feel there is a lot more to this than meets the eye imho

    It is both a legal issue and a matter of principle. These administrators neither own the intellectual property rights to World of Warcraft nor did they expend the effort to create the game, both of which require copious amounts of money to do and something Blizzard did. Legally, they have every right to shut down that server and any other for what amounts to theft.

    Put another way: Let's say you wrote a best-selling novel that made millions and then made revisions that some people did not like. If those upset people took your book, a thing created with your blood, sweat and tears, and made copies to sell to all other disaffected people, would you not be upset? I would. My creation, my right to sell and profit from it.

    While these folks may not "profit" from their activities, I'll bet there's a prominent "donate" button to keep the servers running. While not profit in their pockets, it amounts to the same thing since without the donations, they could not keep things going.

    Lastly, the "offer" to give server information to "anyone who wants to make their own private server speaks to their high and mighty ideals, doesn't it?
    Actually, if no money was being made off of this private server at all-well, then legally I don't see how Blizzard can sue the owners of the site or tell them to take the game down. I thought there was some random law about that but guess I'm wrong.
    Theft by unauthorized use of property.  Just about every society has this.  You do not have to make money from something to be theft.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,202
      “Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist.” - John Adams
  • JermzyJermzy Member UncommonPosts: 211
    So I have this car i spent countless hours on.  But i have not used it now for 10 years.  Someone stole it but i am ok with that because they are having fun and i was not using it anyways.........
    Haroo!
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    I hope they'l manage to reorganize someplace safe, Russia or anywhere far enough from Blizz's hands. I'd be very happy to help, as I did before and during previous launch.

    Meantime, you can sign that little sexy petition. Who knows!?
     W...aaagh?
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,202
    I hope they'l manage to reorganize someplace safe, Russia or anywhere far enough from Blizz's hands. I'd be very happy to help, as I did before and during previous launch.

    Meantime, you can sign that little sexy petition. Who knows!?

    hope all the users get their identities stolen on those safe Russian servers too...
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