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Finally -- A Sequel To Everquest I Style Gameplay

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  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Chrysaor said:
    Dakeru said:
    Ok so by the "people" producing Pantheon you meant only Brad?

    Another link:

    http://www.pantheonmmo.com/about_us/visionary_realms/

    Take some time and explore the official website.  Read the forums and such.  Watch the demo videos.  I am sure you will see lots of game mechanics that you fondly remember from those prior MMOs.

    In general, I would imagine that if you enjoyed Everquest I, you will also enjoy Pantheon.  A few examples:

    *  Interdependent Class System (Classes will have roles, group composition will have meaning)
    *  Complex Faction (Your actions will have consequences)
    *  Social / Group Focused (Meet people and take on greater challenges, form guilds)
    *  Non-instanced (With a few exceptions)
    *  Dungeon Camps / Dungeon Crawls (Lots of great memories from prior games)
    *  Crafting / Tradeskills (Lots of gamers enjoy gathering and creating items for profit)
    *  Raiding (Perhaps something similar to 54 person raids)
    *  Dangerous Challenging World  (The greater the risk the greater the potential reward)
    *  Epic Quests (An EQ favorite)
    *  Exploration via Meaningful Travel (A fun activity for many)
    *  Likely PVP Server(s) (Maybe similar to the prior Zek servers)
    Nice list but that has nothing to do with your previous post.
    You said the "people" had their "hands" in all those games you listed.

    There is a huge difference whether they were working on those games or if they are trying to copy them now.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • EvelknievelEvelknievel Member UncommonPosts: 2,964
    Ahh, the good stuff =)
  • ChrysaorChrysaor Member UncommonPosts: 111
    Dakeru said:
    Chrysaor said:
    Dakeru said:
    Ok so by the "people" producing Pantheon you meant only Brad?

    Another link:

    http://www.pantheonmmo.com/about_us/visionary_realms/

    Take some time and explore the official website.  Read the forums and such.  Watch the demo videos.  I am sure you will see lots of game mechanics that you fondly remember from those prior MMOs.

    In general, I would imagine that if you enjoyed Everquest I, you will also enjoy Pantheon.  A few examples:

    *  Interdependent Class System (Classes will have roles, group composition will have meaning)
    *  Complex Faction (Your actions will have consequences)
    *  Social / Group Focused (Meet people and take on greater challenges, form guilds)
    *  Non-instanced (With a few exceptions)
    *  Dungeon Camps / Dungeon Crawls (Lots of great memories from prior games)
    *  Crafting / Tradeskills (Lots of gamers enjoy gathering and creating items for profit)
    *  Raiding (Perhaps something similar to 54 person raids)
    *  Dangerous Challenging World  (The greater the risk the greater the potential reward)
    *  Epic Quests (An EQ favorite)
    *  Exploration via Meaningful Travel (A fun activity for many)
    *  Likely PVP Server(s) (Maybe similar to the prior Zek servers)
    Nice list but that has nothing to do with your previous post.
    You said the "people" had their "hands" in all those games you listed.

    There is a huge difference whether they were working on those games or if they are trying to copy them now.

    The linked information clearly states that they did work on those previous games:

    "Among us are seasoned industry veterans who have worked on globally celebrated titles like EverQuest, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, and Star Wars Galaxies to name a few"

    Anyway, lots to look forward to!
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited April 2016
    I wouldn't be so quick to ASS-U-ME,as this game is a long way away from being a solid sequel.

    Furthermore i or we would HOPE that developers learn and IMPROVE games over the years,not just try and deliver 1990's gaming all over again.
    We have not leaped forward with better code,better cpu's,better gpu's,better knowledge,better internet to throwback to 1990.

    Point being that EQ was nice for that era but nowhere near good enough now and has not been good enough for a long time.Truth is both EQ games have been low populated a long time and years of gaming has taught me that some people just can't let go of years of investment when in reality,they KNOW the game is not good enough anymore.

    My point is i do NOT want a EQ sequel ,i want a TRIPLE A solid game with ideals i expect from a MMO+RPG.Yes there is some HOPE for this game,time will tell,i wouldn't get too hopeful,my hunch is a game somewhere around a 6 or a longshot at 7/10.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Dungeon crawls have been terribly done in SOE and other games.You always have to fight every single mob to get to some Boss at the end of the dungeon,cheap shallow designs.

    Why are there 30 mobs all huddled in some corner of a dungeon,what do they eat,why are they there?We need to see more SENSE in game development rather than generate some dungeon and dot down some mobs with a loot database.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Wizardry said:
    Dungeon crawls have been terribly done in SOE and other games.You always have to fight every single mob to get to some Boss at the end of the dungeon,cheap shallow designs.

    Why are there 30 mobs all huddled in some corner of a dungeon,what do they eat,why are they there?We need to see more SENSE in game development rather than generate some dungeon and dot down some mobs with a loot database.
    You are being overly vague in your description of EQ dungeons , many rooms and floor plans made perfect sense , With guard rooms , barracks , mess halls , Officer Qtrs .. etc .. the mobs were there for a reason and many triggered quest or were quest goals .. OTW to bigger goals .. And smart groups could traverse much of what they didnt want .....
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Wizardry said:
    I wouldn't be so quick to ASS-U-ME,as this game is a long way away from being a solid sequel.

    Furthermore i or we would HOPE that developers learn and IMPROVE games over the years,not just try and deliver 1990's gaming all over again.
    We have not leaped forward with better code,better cpu's,better gpu's,better knowledge,better internet to throwback to 1990.

    Point being that EQ was nice for that era but nowhere near good enough now and has not been good enough for a long time.Truth is both EQ games have been low populated a long time and years of gaming has taught me that some people just can't let go of years of investment when in reality,they KNOW the game is not good enough anymore.

    My point is i do NOT want a EQ sequel ,i want a TRIPLE A solid game with ideals i expect from a MMO+RPG.Yes there is some HOPE for this game,time will tell,i wouldn't get too hopeful,my hunch is a game somewhere around a 6 or a longshot at 7/10.
    And honeslty from watching you post over the years NOTHING will dleiver what YOU want , except FFXI...
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    I just hope this game gives closure.  =)
  • ChrysaorChrysaor Member UncommonPosts: 111
    Wizardry said:
    I wouldn't be so quick to ASS-U-ME,as this game is a long way away from being a solid sequel.

    Furthermore i or we would HOPE that developers learn and IMPROVE games over the years,not just try and deliver 1990's gaming all over again.
    We have not leaped forward with better code,better cpu's,better gpu's,better knowledge,better internet to throwback to 1990.

    Point being that EQ was nice for that era but nowhere near good enough now and has not been good enough for a long time.Truth is both EQ games have been low populated a long time and years of gaming has taught me that some people just can't let go of years of investment when in reality,they KNOW the game is not good enough anymore.

    My point is i do NOT want a EQ sequel ,i want a TRIPLE A solid game with ideals i expect from a MMO+RPG.Yes there is some HOPE for this game,time will tell,i wouldn't get too hopeful,my hunch is a game somewhere around a 6 or a longshot at 7/10.

    I do not believe they intend to make Pantheon a clone of any prior games.  I believe they are using their past knowledge of what has worked and what gamers have enjoyed as a basis for the game.  They are offering up new ideas and new systems that hopefully will add additional depth and challenge.
  • prizm1234prizm1234 Member UncommonPosts: 109
    boy are you going to be disappointed. with that level of hype, nothing can live up to expectations.

    image
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,607
    So a game that couldnt get crowd funded (when anyone can make a crowdfunding goal) is going to be the sequel to one of the best IPS ever?

    You guys ares smoking crack.

    This game will never ever get made, end of story. 
  • LasterbaLasterba Member UncommonPosts: 137
    rodarin said:
    So a game that couldnt get crowd funded (when anyone can make a crowdfunding goal) is going to be the sequel to one of the best IPS ever?

    You guys ares smoking crack.

    This game will never ever get made, end of story. 
    They're already live streaming pre-alpha gameplay...the game is definitely being made.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,607
    Lasterba said:
    rodarin said:
    So a game that couldnt get crowd funded (when anyone can make a crowdfunding goal) is going to be the sequel to one of the best IPS ever?

    You guys ares smoking crack.

    This game will never ever get made, end of story. 
    They're already live streaming pre-alpha gameplay...the game is definitely being made.
    People have learned nothing I see....
  • XatshXatsh Member RarePosts: 451
    edited April 2016
    Yes it failed the kick starter.. .mainly because it was horribly presented and the past issues with mistrust in Brad with money, which I may add he no longer controls the money at VR. They have people donating them money and supporting them on the site. Was a large donor not that long ago that really boosted development.

    Game has just as much chance at releasing at the other indy titles out there that are being hyped up on this website.

    Game is gaining support as it moves through development. The pre-alpha video they shown increased the support.
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,513
    Chrysaor said:

    <snip>
    ... I am sure you will see lots of game mechanics that you fondly remember from those prior MMOs.
    <snip>
    This is actually the big problem I have with this game.  From all accounts, it really is going to be another EQ1.  I just don't see it offering anything new and interesting.  Better graphics, yes.  But the fundamental game play is described in nearly identical terms.  Reinventing the past isn't the way to move the genre forward.  Let's not forget there are perfectly valid reasons why people left EQ1 in the first place.

    I am afraid that Pantheon is being built on that nostalgia.  When I look for a new strategy game, I don't look for a modernized Empire.  If I look for a new CRPG game, I don't look for a Gold-Box clone.  Should I ever want a new adventure game, I won't look for a repackaged Zork with graphic improvements.  Why should I be expected to pick an MMORPG that is as close as possible to the past?  I really hope that Pantheon will deliver something beyond the minimal EQ1 with pretty artwork, because nostalgia hasn't proven to be a solid basis for long-term success.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    @Mendel Thing is that is exactly what the EQ gamers have been asking for, make us a updated gfx EQ. So that shouldn't even be an issue.  

    My problem is what they say now has about a 10% chance of staying the same. Matt over at ESO said the game would have the plugged pulled out if it had to go F2P. They went B2P and crown store and used the excuse it was Microsoft's fault.  Gamers are getting fed up of being lied too. Gamers are also getting tired of our gaming sites being used by the developers to hype the games. 

    In my opinion I would love to see a game take a little of EQ, a little of AC, and a little of UO. But even then with updated gfx we may not get what every gamer wants in that type of game. But it may be a lot better than turning out another wow clone. I do get sad at times because am going to be 62 soon and really believe the gaming for MMORPG's are going to end up evolving into something even greater. But even then I smile when watching my grand kids on todays cells, tablets and computers. When a 3 year old can make me look like a noob when it comes to tablets makes me laugh my ass off. 

    I also believe it is going to get harder to trust any kickstarters as time goes on. Yet this could actually end up being good for the industry. 


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  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,407
    Kyleran said:
    Xatsh said:
    Sub based
    With cash shop .....and preorders and likely most other monetization techniques employed today.


    lol wow, forget it then. I stopped buying sub MMOs years ago after so much disappointment. Plus I don't feel like I have enough time to get my monies worth. Even though gw2 is a themepark, at  least I can play as much or little I want and not feel the value for me is not there. If I can only log in an hour a week and only have time to stand in Lions arch and chat with my guild, at least I don't have to pay $15 to do it.
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  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member RarePosts: 620
    edited April 2016
    I hope it has everyting EQ1 had which made it great but also tries to innovate. However, my anxiety is in how much they innovate specifically for convenience and soloing. It's nice to talk up the merits of innovation and progress, but if it's only going towards convenience and soloing, I'm afraid it'll probably not be what I want, given the track record of most MMO's. That being they focus a large percentage of their budget on convenience and soloing. This is not to say I want a masochist group-oriented MMO. Not at all.

    Wurm Online is a lot of what I like in an MMO. It isn't perfect. I feel like unlike many of the players who say they want old school mechanics or something similar to EQ1, I've actually been paying and playing a game which walked the talk. It had corpse runs, no in-game map or radar, full loot on the pvp servers, and lots of other things--like the lack of hand holding. I also played Project 1999, but players don't pay to play it. Moreso, I really enjoyed Wurm Online. It has many flaws and it's not exactly EQ1, but it proved to me I can still enjoy old school mechanics--like no map or corpse runs.

    I hope Pantheon doesn't add PvP servers or PVP. I don't think tha'ts important and I think it'd be harmful to the MMO.  I also hope it does try to innovate. And also ALL MMO's have some convenience or limited soloing. So I'm not saying it's wrong to have a little. My hope is most ofthe innovatin is focused on creating great content and on AI and emergent gameplay. I also hope the interdependencies create great unscripted group experiences.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    I want this game to work but my faith in Brad is all but diminished at this point. He strikes me as the creative type without a lick of sense when it comes to running the show, I just hope he doesn't pull another Sigil Games Online. Here's to me being wrong.
  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    edited April 2016
    Chrysaor said:
    Given how successful Everquest has been (and one of the longest running MMOs), it was breathtaking to see SoE fumble with their efforts to create a sequel to such a popular franchise.  Now with Pantheon, Rise of the Fallen, we finally get to look forward to playing an Everquest I style game, with all of the technology goodness that an MMO of 17 years ago, just could not provide.

    Can't wait!
    lol. Unless its housing, crafting and personalization are even better than EQ2, and SWG, then I seriously doubt it. So I will say the same thing I do with every game released now adays...  we will see. Because I don't trust a word out of devs mouths anymore. 
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,513
    Brenics said:
    @Mendel Thing is that is exactly what the EQ gamers have been asking for, make us a updated gfx EQ. So that shouldn't even be an issue. 
    Exactly how many people are in this market begging for EQ1 with 2016 graphics?  Yes, it would be nice, but how does this mythical group of nostalgia driven people translate into paying customers.  Because, that's what it is all about to businesses.   I am quite certain that VR will need to worry about a tangible market segment, not some ill-defined group of potential customers.  Counting the number of posters on a forum (especially as volatile a forum as MMORPG.com can be) isn't sound market research.

    Brenics said:
    In my opinion I would love to see a game take a little of EQ, a little of AC, and a little of UO. But even then with updated gfx we may not get what every gamer wants in that type of game. But it may be a lot better than turning out another wow clone. I do get sad at times because am going to be 62 soon and really believe the gaming for MMORPG's are going to end up evolving into something even greater.
    While I think all three of the Wave One titles -- EQ, AC, and UO -- each brought interesting and unique ideas to the table, the genre has grown somewhat.  Later games added new ideas to the mix, along with strengths and advantages of their own.  Harvesting the first generation games for ideas and discarding subsequent ideas isn't evolutionary in any understanding of the word.  At best, it is a restatement of the same; a modern product that wants to put itself on that same EQ/AC/UO shelf back in 2000.

    Brenics said:
    I also believe it is going to get harder to trust any kickstarters as time goes on. Yet this could actually end up being good for the industry.
    I absolutely agree with this.  Then again, I've been skeptical of the kick starter idea since the beginning.  The behavior of certain public funding efforts have tarnished what little luster was on that idea.  A failure of any nature (undelivered product, failing to meet financial numbers, bad coding, misreading market trends, etc.) can only diminish the concept further.  I don't believe that Pantheon will go the way of EQ:N, but I am less certain about other elements underlying this project.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    edited April 2016
    Most "innovation" in modern games translates to removing both the RPG and massively multiplayer elements from the MMORPG. Beyond that, it means they made the MMO less like a virtual world, and more like a lobby game in order to allow everyone to accomplish everything.

    I would much rather play a game like EQ. In fact, I'd take an exact replica with 2016 graphics over any so called MMO that we've seen released in recent years. Based on what I've seen from these forums over the last decade, I'm not the only one.

    Pantheon intends to make an MMORPG more akin to EQ in respect to cooperative play, the social elements, and rpg gameplay. As far as I'm concerned, so-called innovation that doesn't have the aforementioned as the base game is only getting away from what made this genre great. Beyond that basic premise, there is more real innovation discussed on Pantheon's site, FAQ and design docs than has been seen in any MMO since the first.
    Post edited by Dullahan on


  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 499
    Someone is getting hyped, aight? :)
    Hell ya we are! This is the closest thing to EQ since EQ :) 
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member RarePosts: 620
    edited April 2016
    Dullahan said:
    Most "innovation" in modern games translates to removing both the RPG and massively multiplayer elements from the MMORPG. Beyond that, it means they made the MMO less like a virtual world, and more like a lobby game in order to allow everyone to accomplish everything.

    I would much rather play a game like EQ. In fact, I'd take an exact replica with 2016 graphics over any so called MMO that we've seen released in recent years. Based on what I've seen from these forums over the last decade, I'm not the only one.

    Pantheon intends to make an MMORPG more akin to EQ in respect to cooperative play, the social elements, and rpg gameplay. As far as I'm concerned, so-called innovation that doesn't have the aforementioned as the base game is only getting away from what made this genre great. Beyond that basic premise, there is more real innovation discussed on Pantheon's site, FAQ and design docs than has been seen in any MMO since the first.
    How do you know it's not just prejudice induced by age? Maybe as gamers age their brains cement and they're prejudiced to like what they played when they were young? Or maybe they haven't tried newer MMO's.

    Otherwise I agree. I played Project 1999 and enjoyed it as much as I ever did. I like the old gameplay and style. I don't like instances and hand holding and railroading. But one thing I haven't proven yet to myself is this isn't all prejudice or failure on my part to adopt modern gaming.

    I know it's not rose-tinted glasses. The argument goes you only *think* you like it, but if you actually did it you'd hate it. But I eliminated that possibility when I played Project 1999. I also eliminated it when I played Wurm Online in 2012. I may not have eliminated EVERY variable possibility, but most of them. And in the practical realm of reality *most* is enough.

    But as I said, the idea our brain cements or I just haven't tried new MMO's enough is still possible. That argument is effective. Or maybe I'm mentally disordered and so I desire freak mechanics? Actually, there was a piece of research I came across several years ago which hinted roleplayers--seeking immersion--tended to have disabilities. I guess the reasoning is they feel oppressed by life and turn to hte MMO for release?) Another idea in that same line of thinking is maybe I'm an adrenaline junkie? This would explain why I prefer death penalties (corpse runs) and tense gameplay with large consequences. I get my hit by playing on the edge.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    edited April 2016
    There is also the psychological concept of "effort justification." The idea is that a person attributes greater value to something into which they had to invest a significant amount of effort. 

    Many of us who played these games back when they were much harder probably (among other reasons - not the only reason) tend to place a high value on game mechanics that posed meaningful challenges that we had to invest time and effort to overcome. 
    Post edited by Amathe on

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