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7 examples of game AI that every developer should study

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,050
    Something I noticed is many MMO players especially Pvp RvR fans don't want better AI. What's up with that? 
    Uhm, the only AI I am aware of in a PvP MMO are FPS games. If that is what you were referring to, then yes, some FPS AI mechanics may as well be players with E.S.P. wall hacks and aimbot capabilities.

  • vegetableoilvegetableoil Member UncommonPosts: 567
    What if google ,amazon or Cyberdyne Systems - Skynet is actually powering a MMORPG forum poster to pose as a human when in fact he or she or binary non gender poster is A.I ? Would anyone even know ? 

     


    EDIT: Not talking about the cheesey spam bots selling Escorts,coupons and online poker that have flooded the website
    You might be surprised, but cyberdyne is an actual japanese company and guess what they build? Robotic exoskeleton, and they named it HAL, but considering A.I I think for game OpenAI for dota is the forefront, it's basically the champion, but if we put these kind of AI in game we won't be playing them because we can't win against it.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,428
    Last I checked games do not include their source code.

    Thats why I dont get what developers are supposed to "study" here. They know certain things are possible, great. That doesnt mean they know HOW to implement these.
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,041
    Ok when it comes to AI gaming may be last decade, but when it comes to animations and graphics look at how far we have come. Recently ray tracing has made dark darker and light lighter, that's what gaming is all about. Like Nvidia said gaming is in a golden age. And the fun guys, has it ever been more fun? ;)
    KyleranAlBQuirky

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,041
    Seriously, I look forward to when AI can run games; in MMORPG's it could tailor a players experience of the game, handle the unfolding of a story that effected gameplay and make quests and dungeons unique for the parties doing them.

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  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 548
    edited October 2019
    Worth mentioning is the Stalker series and its Alife engine to simulate mass movement. Apparently it was dumbed down during develoment, but with MODs it becomes more capable.

    Another is the game Outcast (1999). Its AI engine was named GAIA.
    A link and quote:
    The AI used in Outcast was considered revolutionary at the time it was released.[11] It was based on a proprietary engine codenamed GAIA, for Game Artificial Intelligence with Agents, which was composed by a set of C++ libraries that provided sophisticated control of game characters based on research in distributed AI. Intelligence is represented as a distributed activity over a set of autonomous routines called agents. An agent uses skills, such as hearing, sight, acrobatic, to complete assigned tasks. These agents can interact and even compete with each other to realize a complex task.
    The problem with AI is genuine AI in real-time is probably impossible. It can only LOOK smart. If genuine AI is used it'll be used in development to create more convincing appearances, like, for example, to randomly produce believable cities using deep learning (or something else). Doing this in real-time wouldn't be practical.

    My opinion is good pathfinding and crowd algorithms are probably a good start to making it LOOK smart in real-time.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    AlBQuirky
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,674
    edited October 2019
    IDK about his examples though,the only game i know if The Division and having watched many hours i would say the AI is awful.
    When i see players walk out in the open and just exchange rounds at the harder settings,no it is not good from any angle.

    I am however happy to see gamasutra is looking at game design,i just feel that perhaps they themselves do not understand what can be done to make it good.

    A good script needs several layers,simply telling the AI to move after hit 2...3..4x is lazy scripting.Even in TD the AI often just stood there and traded shots with the human player...sigh.

    I am not going to list off a hundred ways to make good scripts,it is not my job,i just know when i see something unique.

    Some noticed i have talked a bit about Atlas of late.Well so happens Atlas creature Ai is actually really good.I know what it is doing and i know it is sort of cheating realism but it works.What the team at Atlas did it have the creatures be it on land or water,read your data,yeah i know i said it is not a realistic mannerism but it does work.

    Example ,if you are weak,it will attack,if you are strong it will move around and even avoid or run.

    I know i don't want to sound like a hypocrite because i often demand plausible realism,but this is scripting AI,you cannot turn npc's into humans or creatures into real ones.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,158
    Wizardry said:
    Example ,if you are weak,it will attack,if you are strong it will move around and even avoid or run.
    EQ1 did this back in 1997. I lost count of the times I died AFTER a fight because I was so low on health afterwards that any level 1 critter or monster suddenly became brave enough to attack me ;)

    Meditating also seemed to paint a target on your spell caster :smile:
    ScotAncient_Exile

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,041
    Developers must learn to write scripts for games
    Adbots must learn to do better at disguising what they are.
    AlBQuirky

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  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Quazal.A said:
    curious was there a reason why they didn't include EvE online for their AI. or is it just a case of they didn't know. :disappointed:
    Personally think its just because eve is seen as the little random relative that only appears at wedding and births :hushed:

    https://kotaku.com/devious-eve-online-ai-finally-defeated-by-hundreds-of-p-1795555590

    just one example. 

    They have been running different / older types of AI to my knowledge fro 10 years or so that started with the WH / Drones that used to be able to change ammo / defences depending on damage type or ships attacking it.

    But being able to create its own defence force depending on its attackers takes it to another level for me.

    They have recently had athe Drifters attack players in a non scripted environment throughout the universe to the point that alliances had to stop fighting each other to kill the pve rats that were ganging up against the players 

    I know im a bit of a fanboy, but EvE still head an shoulders above any mmo for its player driven content ,  and now AI driven content, this to me is how a sandbox should be, the devs start the work then the game itself decides with no direction :D  (thats the longer term of course)

    "I know im a bit of a fanboy, but EvE still head an shoulders above any mmo for its player driven content ,  and now AI driven content, this to me is how a sandbox should be, the devs start the work then the game itself decides with no direction :D  (thats the longer term of course)" - Quazal.A

    "...player driven content ,  and now AI driven content, this to me is how a sandbox should be, the devs start the work then the game itself decides with no direction..."

    With as little direction as possible.

    Interesting thread.

    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,185
    edited April 22
    [mod edit]
    Is this an example of an extremely clever bot AI which not only incorporates an advert into the subject matter of the thread, then takes it a step further to create a 2nd account to quote the advert another time?

    If so they are way ahead of most game developers.

    ;)
    Post edited by Vaross on
    ScotAlBQuirky

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,041
    edited April 22
    Kyleran said:
    [mod edit]
    Is this an example of an extremely clever bot AI which not only incorporates an advert into the subject matter of the thread, then takes it a step further to create a 2nd account to quote the advert another time?

    If so they are way ahead of most game developers.

    ;)
    I think these are both adbots, soon you an I will be replaced by them talking to themselves.
    Post edited by Vaross on
    AlBQuirky

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  • GeorgeHoweGeorgeHowe Newbie CommonPosts: 2
    edited July 14
    What if google ,amazon or Cyberdyne Systems - Skynet is actually powering a MMORPG forum poster to pose as a human when in fact he or she or binary non gender poster is A.I ? Would anyone even know ? 

     


    EDIT: Not talking about the cheesey spam bots selling Escorts,coupons and online poker that have flooded the website
    You might be surprised, but cyberdyne is an actual japanese company and guess what they build? Robotic exoskeleton, and they named it HAL, but considering A.I I think for game OpenAI for dota is the forefront, it's basically the champion, but if we put these kind of AI in game we won't be playing them because we can't win against it.
    I think that many developers need to have a lot of experience. When I was studying game dev using https://au.edubirdie.com/ I constantly monitored what different game development companies do. Since you can find a lot of great ideas in the work of others.
    Post edited by GeorgeHowe on
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,246
    What if google ,amazon or Cyberdyne Systems - Skynet is actually powering a MMORPG forum poster to pose as a human when in fact he or she or binary non gender poster is A.I ? Would anyone even know ? 

     


    EDIT: Not talking about the cheesey spam bots selling Escorts,coupons and online poker that have flooded the website
    You might be surprised, but cyberdyne is an actual japanese company and guess what they build? Robotic exoskeleton, and they named it HAL, but considering A.I I think for game OpenAI for dota is the forefront, it's basically the champion, but if we put these kind of AI in game we won't be playing them because we can't win against it.
    What?
    https://www.cyberdyne.jp/english/

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • Abscissa15Abscissa15 Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Very interesting - nice work. Burned my whole lunch break here :)
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 548
    edited July 16
    Something I noticed is many MMO players especially Pvp RvR fans don't want better AI. What's up with that? 

    Sometimes i think it's not relaly bettter ai that everyone wants because lets be serious players don't REALLY want a challenge, or almost everyone would be playing PvP. What most really want, whether they know it or not, is a director AI. The director AI knows YOU, will keep you entertained and engrossed, and maybe even keep things suspenseful, but would steer away from creating a truly challenging survival gameplay.

    BUT this only really applies to gaming in general. Personally, I think not everyone playing games merely wants a game, and not alll subgenres in gaming are merely games. Some players actually want some adversity. They don't want constant fun. They want it to hurt sometimes. They want to be bored sometimes. They wnat something more like the real world even, maybe because it's more immersive when a world doesn't revolve around your happiness... It makes achievement feel more noteworthy. It makes memories that aren't just happiness, but a full range of emotion and experience.

    Immersion isn't just about big monitors, realistic graphics or VR headsets. It's also the world itself and the gameplay. People don't generally agree what's immersive, but they all tend to choose certain things. I, for example, think items are immersive in RPGs. I think Inns and Taverns and reasonably convincing cities and villages are immersive. I think some randomized things are immersive. I think having stats on items is immersive because it mimics what I'm used to seeing in RL--things breaking down and not every table or computer being exactly the same quality or build. Item decay is immerisve to me. A comprehensive inventory, composed of backpacks and other containters or devices, with item weight and item volume is immersive. Needing to eat food, drink water, rest and heal myself are also immersive. While I like many instnaces of challenging combat, I conversely tend to dislike too much story or NPC conversation. Some players favor lots of convincing story and characters. They wnat expansive branching storylines and flawed characters. They want non-combat methods to defeat an enemy. Thye wnat to marry, befriend, and other. We're not all the same.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    AlBQuirky
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