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What would it take for you to pledge?

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  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    Wizardry said:
    "Pledge"  very odd term,i don't give out free money,especially to other rich game developers.

    The ONLY way i give a game developer money is if they sell shares,i would call it a real investment.There is still a problem,we have to TRUST the business to not dilute our shares,make our investment worthless with various types of shares and all the rest of the BS that goes on in stocks and investor firms.

    BEST option is to let the developer get their own money,own investors and don't bother trying to make a half assed game just to give yourself an income,to make a living,i only want whole-hearted game developers.
    We've certainly attempted to be as clear as possible that we are also looking for angel investors and, while we're looking for more, have done pretty well in that area.

    While it would not be appropriate to go into the details of these investments, they are true investments.  But they have to be Accredited Investors by law.  In order to, for example, sell shares in our company for investment money, the person investing has to be accredited.  There are laws in place to protect people.  Even it it did make sense to sell equity for smaller amounts of money, we couldn't.  That's why crowdfunding is pledges/donations.


    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,439
    Aradune said:
    Wizardry said:
    "Pledge"  very odd term,i don't give out free money,especially to other rich game developers.

    The ONLY way i give a game developer money is if they sell shares,i would call it a real investment.There is still a problem,we have to TRUST the business to not dilute our shares,make our investment worthless with various types of shares and all the rest of the BS that goes on in stocks and investor firms.

    BEST option is to let the developer get their own money,own investors and don't bother trying to make a half assed game just to give yourself an income,to make a living,i only want whole-hearted game developers.
    We've certainly attempted to be as clear as possible that we are also looking for angel investors and, while we're looking for more, have done pretty well in that area.

    While it would not be appropriate to go into the details of these investments, they are true investments.  But they have to be Accredited Investors by law.  In order to, for example, sell shares in our company for investment money, the person investing has to be accredited.  There are laws in place to protect people.  Even it it did make sense to sell equity for smaller amounts of money, we couldn't.  That's why crowdfunding is pledges/donations.


    What about what Fig.co is doing with Tim Schafer, Brian Fargo and Urquhart from Obsidian.
    You submit your investment, sign documents, wire funds and share in the game's sales receipts.
     

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    edited July 2016
    The game to be out. and good. lol
  • NightliteNightlite Member UncommonPosts: 227
    edited July 2016
    A "TL:DR" should not be as long as the part it summarizes.

    Still.. I will answer. A feeling that the game is coming sooner, rather than later.
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908
    I simply believe that you have to support the market that you wish to see. 

    If the mainstream developers won't deliver me the niche game that I want, then grass roots crowdfunding is the only way. Without crowdfunding, the MMORPG genre is dead. This genre is a dead man walking out of fashion dinosaur right now. 

    I won't sit here and whinge that the market isn't providing for me without showing the market I care. I'm not that entitled. I get that crying and whinging on forums isn't enough. 

    I stopped playing cash shop MMORPGs because I loathed that model, and the same philosophy applies here. I don't support what I dislike, I support that which I like.
  • FusionFusion Member UncommonPosts: 1,398
    I personally have never and will never pledge to unfinished / concept products. I buy finished products if they catch my attention :)
    http://neocron-game.com/ - now totally F2P no cash-shops or micro transactions at all.
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311
    Burntvet said:
    Not a damn thing.

    They can release the game and then maybe they get my money if it is good.

    But free money in advance?

    Hell no.

    i agree and that goes for any game.
  • g0m0rrahg0m0rrah Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Tramatic brain injury
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,571
    I know early access and crowd funding is all the rage right now but I don't agree with it. If a dev wants to make a game and sell it to me that's perfectly fine but I won't hand over any money until I see a finished product that I can review or evaluate before I hand over my hard earned cash.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    Luiden said:
    Ah, and it looks like it's going to be F2P for the first 10 levels.  No thank you, don't want the spam and don't want to deal with the whiny 13 year olds.  If a player can't spend money to buy the game then they don't have any business playing a game like this.  
    Agreed.  Player buys game, player creates character, name is in use by F2P player that plays to level 10 then quits.  Player settle on another name gets logged in, starter zone is flooded with F2P kids running around like roaches turning the zone in a circus instead of an immersive gaming experience. Chat is flooded with F2P characters complaining about how they cant level past 10 and that's BS etc   Gold sellers and spammers making F2P accounts and destroying global with bannable crap but dont care because its a free account.

    I can see no good coming from this.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    goboygo said:
    Luiden said:
    Ah, and it looks like it's going to be F2P for the first 10 levels.  No thank you, don't want the spam and don't want to deal with the whiny 13 year olds.  If a player can't spend money to buy the game then they don't have any business playing a game like this.  
    Agreed.  Player buys game, player creates character, name is in use by F2P player that plays to level 10 then quits.  Player settle on another name gets logged in, starter zone is flooded with F2P kids running around like roaches turning the zone in a circus instead of an immersive gaming experience. Chat is flooded with F2P characters complaining about how they cant level past 10 and that's BS etc   Gold sellers and spammers making F2P accounts and destroying global with bannable crap but dont care because its a free account.

    I can see no good coming from this.
    These things are so easy to combat.


    Dullahan said:
    Just to put your mind at ease, here is an example of the limitations that I would put on a free trial account:

    No /tell
    No /shout
    No /auction
    No /ooc
    Limited /say - max 1 per minute
    Limited /trade - only with free trial players
    Limited /invite - max 1 per minute maybe w/ only trial players
    Limited zone access - only to the starter city and surrounding zones containing 1-10 content

    In addition to that, you could offer subscribers the option of filtering out trial players.

    Chat should be mostly restricted to /reply to players that sent them tells, or /groupsay to players that agreed to group with them.

    The account should be active up to level 10, and expire 1 month after account creation.

    To avoid the name issues, free trial characters (that don't subscribe) should be wiped after 6 months and their character name released.

    Given those restrictions, a trial player would have little opportunity to cause trouble.




  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,013
    goboygo said:
    Luiden said:
    Ah, and it looks like it's going to be F2P for the first 10 levels.  No thank you, don't want the spam and don't want to deal with the whiny 13 year olds.  If a player can't spend money to buy the game then they don't have any business playing a game like this.  
    Agreed.  Player buys game, player creates character, name is in use by F2P player that plays to level 10 then quits.  Player settle on another name gets logged in, starter zone is flooded with F2P kids running around like roaches turning the zone in a circus instead of an immersive gaming experience. Chat is flooded with F2P characters complaining about how they cant level past 10 and that's BS etc   Gold sellers and spammers making F2P accounts and destroying global with bannable crap but dont care because its a free account.

    I can see no good coming from this.


    WoW I didn't know this.......F2P for first 10 levels..............VERY BAD move !

    They better have at least 100 servers to start for all the freebees, with no intentions of paying for anything.

    This will undermine the experience of the game drastically, with too many people that can't get anything done !  And drop frame rates.  


    I'm all for no free ever.

    Donations are just that, donations ( a free gift ).....Charge $60 then $19.95 a month, it will be 2017-2018 prices have gone up, live with if or you can't afford video games !

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    goboygo said:
    Luiden said:
    Ah, and it looks like it's going to be F2P for the first 10 levels.  No thank you, don't want the spam and don't want to deal with the whiny 13 year olds.  If a player can't spend money to buy the game then they don't have any business playing a game like this.  
    Agreed.  Player buys game, player creates character, name is in use by F2P player that plays to level 10 then quits.  Player settle on another name gets logged in, starter zone is flooded with F2P kids running around like roaches turning the zone in a circus instead of an immersive gaming experience. Chat is flooded with F2P characters complaining about how they cant level past 10 and that's BS etc   Gold sellers and spammers making F2P accounts and destroying global with bannable crap but dont care because its a free account.

    I can see no good coming from this.


    WoW I didn't know this.......F2P for first 10 levels..............VERY BAD move !

    They better have at least 100 servers to start for all the freebees, with no intentions of paying for anything.

    This will undermine the experience of the game drastically, with too many people that can't get anything done !  And drop frame rates.  


    I'm all for no free ever.

    Donations are just that, donations ( a free gift ).....Charge $60 then $19.95 a month, it will be 2017-2018 prices have gone up, live with if or you can't afford video games !

    I disagree.

    Besides the fact that I've detailed several surefire ways to have a successful trial, I believe its necessary for people to experience Pantheon first hand because it will be just that different. People will need to see it to believe it, and without a trial, many people will write it off as just another mmo and a low budget indie one at that.


  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    edited July 2016
    Dullahan said:
    delete5230 said:

    WoW I didn't know this.......F2P for first 10 levels..............VERY BAD move !

    They better have at least 100 servers to start for all the freebees, with no intentions of paying for anything.

    This will undermine the experience of the game drastically, with too many people that can't get anything done !  And drop frame rates.  


    I'm all for no free ever.

    Donations are just that, donations ( a free gift ).....Charge $60 then $19.95 a month, it will be 2017-2018 prices have gone up, live with if or you can't afford video games !

    I disagree.

    Besides the fact that I've detailed several surefire ways to have a successful trial, I believe its necessary for people to experience Pantheon first hand because it will be just that different. People will need to see it to believe it, and without a trial, many people will write it off as just another mmo and a low budget indie one at that.
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.  Plus there will be Veteran Servers where you pay up front for those who don't want to deal with it all regardless.

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,013
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan said:
    delete5230 said:

    WoW I didn't know this.......F2P for first 10 levels..............VERY BAD move !

    They better have at least 100 servers to start for all the freebees, with no intentions of paying for anything.

    This will undermine the experience of the game drastically, with too many people that can't get anything done !  And drop frame rates.  


    I'm all for no free ever.

    Donations are just that, donations ( a free gift ).....Charge $60 then $19.95 a month, it will be 2017-2018 prices have gone up, live with if or you can't afford video games !

    I disagree.

    Besides the fact that I've detailed several surefire ways to have a successful trial, I believe its necessary for people to experience Pantheon first hand because it will be just that different. People will need to see it to believe it, and without a trial, many people will write it off as just another mmo and a low budget indie one at that.
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.  Plus there will be Veteran Servers where you pay up front for those who don't want to deal with it all regardless.


    Well great news then, I was shocked at first glance.

    The freebee group can be tricky bunch.  As they sit in moms basement at 19 years old and being jobless, they tend to have the time to bash games that don't give them something, with no intentions of ever paying.


    A few years back, I decided to give Retail World of Warcraft another try....The first several levels allowed the freebees.  I CAN'T REMEMBER THE RULES FOR FREE PLAY, but for some reason they were all trying to group with me at very low levels ( like bugs ).  So, I assumed they could squeeze more from their experience with the game if they group.  They had some kind of system down to play free with all the exploits.........There were a lot of them, and they followed me at level 4 !.........Thank God, the game was established, because it made the game look bad. 

    Knowing stuff like this, I realize the amount of freebees on this site trying to squeeze out something for free, a lot of them ! 

    Knowing of  Veteran Servers is good news :)

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.  
    Yes Dullahan has great ideas on this issue and many others, but for God's sake man you can't tell him that. He will be insufferable. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • jjash71jjash71 Member UncommonPosts: 2
    Probably just a short free trial so I could see what I was investing in.
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 247
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.  Plus there will be Veteran Servers where you pay up front for those who don't want to deal with it all regardless.
    /Agreed Dullahan has some good ideas how to control F2Pers if on the same server, and, based on the two points you made - I think his route would be the best.

    As to your second point about Veteran servers, I'm not a fan of splitting a server population using a pay wall.

    If you were going to split servers, I'd rather just have a separate trial server for F2Pers then allow that player to choose to move over if they desire whether that be one time transfer or forcing the player to start over. 

    All "normal" servers should be assumed to be veteran and then just have specific rulesets based off the population - PVP/RP etc.

    I think you're going to achieve the opposite effect you want as most veterans will not want to be on the same server as F2Ps if given a choice, so the dynamic of a "normal" server experience wouldn't be replicated for that F2Per.
  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207
    I'm not a fan of splitting the playerbase like that. I don't expect a large following to begin with and a free server could set a bad example for anyone seriously interested in the game, causing them to give up on it.
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 247
    Alders said:
    I'm not a fan of splitting the playerbase like that. I don't expect a large following to begin with and a free server could set a bad example for anyone seriously interested in the game, causing them to give up on it.
    I agree, which is why I would defer to Dullahan's ideas on keeping everyone on the same server and controlling the F2P population.  I think the veteran servers would cause the same problem as you're suggesting above.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Raidan_EQ said:
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.  Plus there will be Veteran Servers where you pay up front for those who don't want to deal with it all regardless.
    /Agreed Dullahan has some good ideas how to control F2Pers if on the same server, and, based on the two points you made - I think his route would be the best.

    As to your second point about Veteran servers, I'm not a fan of splitting a server population using a pay wall.

    If you were going to split servers, I'd rather just have a separate trial server for F2Pers then allow that player to choose to move over if they desire whether that be one time transfer or forcing the player to start over. 

    All "normal" servers should be assumed to be veteran and then just have specific rulesets based off the population - PVP/RP etc.

    I think you're going to achieve the opposite effect you want as most veterans will not want to be on the same server as F2Ps if given a choice, so the dynamic of a "normal" server experience wouldn't be replicated for that F2Per.
    Ya, I posted about this on the official forums.

    I really think the quality of the community on normal servers will suffer if premium servers are available. The more enthusiastic fans would likely gravitate there, and I think those players are necessary to bring a balance. It would likely taint the trial experience and lead to a less friendly atmosphere for everyone.


  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    Amathe said:
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.  
    Yes Dullahan has great ideas on this issue and many others, but for God's sake man you can't tell him that. He will be insufferable. 
    Oops :)

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited July 2016
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.
    No, he doesn't.

    He does have a great ideas how to hurt regular F2P players, and subsequently hurting your business, with little impact on spammers and gold sellers - pretty much all the suggestions are non-issue for bots, something spammers use anyway.

    Consumer perception, short sighted, focus on symptoms rather than the cause ideas are like that...



    Just the thought you could be seriously considering those ideas "great" is frightening...
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 247
    Gdemami said:
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.
    No, he doesn't.

    He does have a great ideas how to hurt regular F2P players, and subsequently hurting your business, with little impact on spammers and gold sellers - pretty much all the suggestions are non-issue for bots, something spammers use anyway.

    Consumer perception, short sighted, focus on symptoms rather than the cause ideas are like that...



    Just the thought you could be seriously considering those ideas "great" is frightening...
    Then please - let's hear your great insight and wisdom on how to manage a F2P population within a paying population.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    edited July 2016
    Gdemami said:
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan has great ideas for minimizing potential negatives to the free-to-play servers.
    No, he doesn't.

    He does have a great ideas how to hurt regular F2P players, and subsequently hurting your business, with little impact on spammers and gold sellers - pretty much all the suggestions are non-issue for bots, something spammers use anyway.

    Consumer perception, short sighted, focus on symptoms rather than the cause ideas are like that...



    Just the thought you could be seriously considering those ideas "great" is frightening...
    Silly.

    First, the game isn't meant to be f2p, so educate yourself on the game before commenting. Second, it would entirely prevent spamming or bots that would be used to spam or circumvent subscription.

    Prove otherwise or we'll chalk up your post as your usual spam.


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