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Evidence that BDO has no real player economy

Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 859
ok not going to drag this on too long, but i have seen posts where people somehow think that BDO has a brilliant player market economy
Well
There is an item in game that can be bought from NPC and then resold on the market making as much as 50% profit even after the ridiculous tax now this shouldn't be possible for any game where the market is driven by player only interaction, of course if  items drops and players buy and sell on same market thats fine, but to buy something from NPC and then the games own auction house says its worth 70% more than npc sells clearly this is wrong..

Of course i dont mind so far today ive sold around 50 of said item whilst it wont put me on the rich list it makes my life far more comfortable.

but i still love the game :)

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
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Comments

  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    edited March 2016
     There's a reason for this, same as the reason for Amity. The items purchased from the NPCs use amity to work up to the purchase. This means not only is it a silver cost, it's a time cost. The market allows you to bypass the time cost, thus the item is more silver than from the merchant. It also has a lot to do with the enhancement system, as you need more items to repair the max durability of your upgraded items.  So the costs are there to balance the time it takes for someone to max their item level. 

     It also makes it possible for people who enjoy the amity system to make profit off that system with buying items for a lower cost and selling high on the market. Keep in mind if it's an item that no one really wants and the market is flooded with that item the price will go down to below the npc price. 

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    No player trading.  Prices set by Devs.  in auction house.  I'd have to agree.

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  • Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 859
    Realizer said:
     There's a reason for this, same as the reason for Amity. The items purchased from the NPCs use amity to work up to the purchase. This means not only is it a silver cost, it's a time cost. The market allows you to bypass the time cost, thus the item is more silver than from the merchant. It also has a lot to do with the enhancement system, as you need more items to repair the max durability of your upgraded items.  So the costs are there to balance the time it takes for someone to max their item level. 

     It also makes it possible for people who enjoy the amity system to make profit off that system with buying items for a lower cost and selling high on the market. Keep in mind if it's an item that no one really wants and the market is flooded with that item the price will go down to below the npc price. 

    i know what amnity is, but this is just a plain old item, the item in quetsion can be bought by a toon on a new account created 30secs ago (assuming he could get to location) 
    There are items like you describe for instance some of hte horse gear requires it to purchase from stables, but this is just a general random item that requires no pre-reqs

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
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  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    People have been doing this in mmos for years. Vendor-bought items are frequently on auction houses for two main reasons, either the buyer doesn't know of the item's availability, or they don't feel like spending the time to go get it, even if it's 5 minutes, they literally don't care. Free things off the ground, not even vendor-bought, not even necessarily in limited supply, end up on there, too.
  • SvarcanumSvarcanum Member UncommonPosts: 425
    This is evidence that BDO *HAS* a player economy. Because only a player would be so stupid as to pay 170k for a crystal that costs 100k at the vendor. 
  • davchadavcha Member UncommonPosts: 130
    Sad for players who enjoy to pretend to be traders (in a game...) but for me, I like the fact that players (and gold farmers) cannot destroy the economy of the game easily. A low level item sold for a high price is never a good thing.
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 1,062
    no real player economy? ummm so who is putting all the items on the market? who is farming all the timber etc? well the players and their hirelings.  so nope its a blanket statement which is incorrect.

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  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430
    This old chestnut again.  This is one example.  A single example is not proof of anything except that one thing.  A red car crashed into me.  Proof that all red cars are dangerous.  Doesn't work.  Now if you had 2 examples, then we can talk proof of life.

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  • KyutaSyukoKyutaSyuko Member UncommonPosts: 288
    mgilbrtsn said:
    This old chestnut again.  This is one example.  A single example is not proof of anything except that one thing.  A red car crashed into me.  Proof that all red cars are dangerous.  Doesn't work.  Now if you had 2 examples, then we can talk proof of life.
    A red car crashed into me last week and then again this week.  All red cars are dangerous!
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    mgilbrtsn said:
    This old chestnut again.  This is one example.  A single example is not proof of anything except that one thing.  A red car crashed into me.  Proof that all red cars are dangerous.  Doesn't work.  Now if you had 2 examples, then we can talk proof of life.
    A red car crashed into me last week and then again this week.  All red cars are dangerous!
    That went way over my head...
     
  • AzothAzoth Member UncommonPosts: 840
    Doesn't that actually prove that there is a player driven market ? If it was only controlled by devs, it wouldn't allow you to set a price higher than the npc value.
  • KrynKryn Member UncommonPosts: 172
    Oh no!  I have to delete game now!!  I could care less.
  • Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 859
    Had the game not pretended it had a player driven economy then thats fine, but to all the people who think this is what a player driven market is then read on.......

    A player driven describes a market that is only controlled by the prices that players deem correct, if the BDO market was player driven then why is it that items that are only on market for matter of seconds are not worth millions, because by demand the fact they sell in seconds suggests the supply is FAR FAR less than demand

    The reason they still only get 25k is that the devs have controlled the market as such. So no its not a player driven market its a player used market, not driven.

    And yes the item in question is a gem that can be bought for 100k and sold by 100s a  day for a profit of about 30-50k depending on the market. (a 30-50% profit for riding less than 30secs) 

    A good example was one i read (on here or the BDO forum) regarding milk, milk is something that has to have the player farm and not one of  his minions, and normally the demand far outweighs the supply for milk because of its usages is required as a base in lots of foods. So surely milk should have the price that would reflect such (ala milk in bdo = oil in real life), but no, the price of milk is so controlled that its barely worthless.
    Or how about some of the ores, the prices are set not on their usage or supply in game, but what the devs think they should be valued at.

    Now a player driven market is EvE this is something that has little impact form devs/gms (obviously a game where devs can change what an impact/usages an item will have in game will always have some form of non player moderation) , and yes the price of plex might fluctuate based on sales going on in the acct mgt , but ships / modules are priced based on the wars going on, manipulation by players, changes to large alliance set ups ... that is what a player driven market is. When something happens in game it has an impact on the market .

    Lastly real life example, lets look at oil, when the surplus was like it was in feb the cost of oil was at it lowest for years, but when the US wants to push price up it creates a phony war in the middle east and what happens, supply goes down so price go up to near record levels. It just doesn't stay at the price that Mr Oil dictates, it sells for what the market dictates.

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
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  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    mgilbrtsn said:
    This old chestnut again.  This is one example.  A single example is not proof of anything except that one thing.  A red car crashed into me.  Proof that all red cars are dangerous.  Doesn't work.  Now if you had 2 examples, then we can talk proof of life.
    A red car crashed into me last week and then again this week.  All red cars are dangerous!
    That went way over my head...
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  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,152
    Quazal.A said:
    Had the game not pretended it had a player driven economy then thats fine, but to all the people who think this is what a player driven market is then read on.......

    A player driven describes a market that is only controlled by the prices that players deem correct, if the BDO market was player driven then why is it that items that are only on market for matter of seconds are not worth millions, because by demand the fact they sell in seconds suggests the supply is FAR FAR less than demand

    The reason they still only get 25k is that the devs have controlled the market as such. So no its not a player driven market its a player used market, not driven.

    And yes the item in question is a gem that can be bought for 100k and sold by 100s a  day for a profit of about 30-50k depending on the market. (a 30-50% profit for riding less than 30secs) 

    A good example was one i read (on here or the BDO forum) regarding milk, milk is something that has to have the player farm and not one of  his minions, and normally the demand far outweighs the supply for milk because of its usages is required as a base in lots of foods. So surely milk should have the price that would reflect such (ala milk in bdo = oil in real life), but no, the price of milk is so controlled that its barely worthless.
    Or how about some of the ores, the prices are set not on their usage or supply in game, but what the devs think they should be valued at.

    Now a player driven market is EvE this is something that has little impact form devs/gms (obviously a game where devs can change what an impact/usages an item will have in game will always have some form of non player moderation) , and yes the price of plex might fluctuate based on sales going on in the acct mgt , but ships / modules are priced based on the wars going on, manipulation by players, changes to large alliance set ups ... that is what a player driven market is. When something happens in game it has an impact on the market .

    Lastly real life example, lets look at oil, when the surplus was like it was in feb the cost of oil was at it lowest for years, but when the US wants to push price up it creates a phony war in the middle east and what happens, supply goes down so price go up to near record levels. It just doesn't stay at the price that Mr Oil dictates, it sells for what the market dictates.

    Just to use that oil example the goverment does step in and have a direct effect on the prices. They can flood the market with there surplus or they can stockpile creating a artifical demand. That is the devs setting a max / min price on the items in the marketplace.  So by the example then the marketplace is indeed player driven.
  • Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 859
    Quazal.A said:

    Just to use that oil example the government does step in and have a direct effect on the prices. They can flood the market with there surplus or they can stockpile creating a artificial demand. That is the devs setting a max / min price on the items in the marketplace.  So by the example then the marketplace is indeed player driven.
    But the difference being that the governments can keep flooding markets and eventually they will crash the market completely but they in fact hold the volumes back to keep the market stable but as we see often the price will crash or rise depending on other parties , like Russia blocking the oil pipes a few years back, so yes the governments have some control but outside of their control has larger impact on market however, i suppose a better example would be the diamond market

    Whereas with Oil governments have an input the diamond market was controlled by de Beers they controlled 90% of all diamond sales up until mid 90s. and what happened when the market when free ... the price has risen upwards by about 15-20% by introducing competition the sellers of diamonds were able to go to whoever wanted to pay the most, instead of being forced to sell for a price dictated by the deBeers corporation.

    http://www.resourceinvestor.com/2013/04/09/diamonds-driven-market-forces-first-time-100-years?page=2

    Even the article title give it away :) - I know using real life examples and comparing to mmo isn't ideal, but in this instance compare De Beers to Devs, remove the devs handling make the market free and let forces within the game dictate.
    And, as for it being a way to stop gold sellers, then you introduce purchasing the same as CCP regardless of what item you click on to buy , you always buy from the lowest value, but at the price you have selected.
    This way if someone wants to sell 1 unit of iron for 1bill silver then he can, but the person who at the time of purchase by the gold seller has the lowest value iron gets the cash not the owner of the high value item, that stays on market until its the lowest.

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • Dragonsfire9Dragonsfire9 Member UncommonPosts: 85
    Just make your money while you can.  Eventually the prices will normalize because although the price is controlled it is not fixed.  It will move with the market.  If you sell a bunch at top price the top and bottom price will eventually move.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852
    There will never again be another MMORPG with "player driven economy" EVER!
    No publisher will have one competing with their cash shops.
    Player economies are a thing of the past.

    RIP!
  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222
    I do agree that some of the prices on gathered materials are laughably low and beginning to be tough to find.  I find some rare mushroom and throw it on the market for almost nothing (because I have to).  I do hope they adjust some of the baseline prices.  

    Slightly unrelated:  Go try to farm ore and craft the mid tier gathering tools.  It isnt worth the effort.  It burns through your tool before you have enough to make another.  And you can't sell ore on the market for the ultra low price they have it.  Well you can but it is a waste of time and effort.  


    Even with this, this still my favorite mmo Ive played in many many years...it's just something they need to address.
  • ThorkuneThorkune Member UncommonPosts: 1,969
    edited April 2016
    I don't think we'll ever see another player driven economy like the days of SWG. In that game the entire economy was created and maintained by the players. Devs now focus more on PvP, cash shops and quest grinding than they do on crafting and player driven content.
    Post edited by Thorkune on
  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    Yep, this is why games are a shell of what they once were. Too bad, I was looking forward to BDO as well. That ended quickly.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    The OP sounds upset. @OP, dude, you need to relax it is just a game.  It doesn't need to match what you want so you really don't need to make a post about "real" economy.  Where "real" just means the way you want it to be.
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  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,389
    Adjuvant1 said:
    People have been doing this in mmos for years. Vendor-bought items are frequently on auction houses for two main reasons, either the buyer doesn't know of the item's availability, or they don't feel like spending the time to go get it, even if it's 5 minutes, they literally don't care. Free things off the ground, not even vendor-bought, not even necessarily in limited supply, end up on there, too.
    I can agree to the buying it is easier part lol. I do that in GW2, I also sell stuff people are too lazy to go dig up. I mean not everyone wants to spend 3 hours looking for a stack of 250 elder wood logs....same goes for this game. 
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  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    op is defo a good figure for playing in one of the sherlock movies

    GJ op
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Quazal.A said:
    ok not going to drag this on too long, but i have seen posts where people somehow think that BDO has a brilliant player market economy
    Well
    There is an item in game that can be bought from NPC and then resold on the market making as much as 50% profit even after the ridiculous tax now this shouldn't be possible for any game where the market is driven by player only interaction, of course if  items drops and players buy and sell on same market thats fine, but to buy something from NPC and then the games own auction house says its worth 70% more than npc sells clearly this is wrong..

    Of course i dont mind so far today ive sold around 50 of said item whilst it wont put me on the rich list it makes my life far more comfortable.

    but i still love the game :)
    I think I am glad you took the time to explain this. That would make me not want to play it, esp if the devs are trying to play off the lie that its a free player economy.  I guess though, the age of that is over. Since BDO seems to be quite popular, that will be the new norm. Controlled economies, no trading, shallow game play, ect ect. 

    Thanks for sharing, I am sure you def saved some people wasting their money on the game. 
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