Scholarship for Eports?

danwest58

https://www.yahoo.com/esports/uc-irvine-announces-esports-scholarship-204231282.html

What the hell are we thinking.  Really?  Who the hell is going to pay for these college students to come out with no transferable skills to real life.  Yea they could Beta test games but we already do that with countless free beta testers with open and closed betas.  Unless you are thinking paying these people Minimum wage and be in debt for 40 years to a college that they never got a degree from.  

Kyleran

Not a new practice, several Ivy league schools have eSports scholarships and teams.  No real difference from a "sports" athlete  they are still required to complete a college degree in case they need an alternate career to fall back on.

Sovrath

danwest58 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/esports/uc-irvine-announces-esports-scholarship-204231282.html

What the hell are we thinking.  Really?  Who the hell is going to pay for these college students to come out with no transferable skills to real life.  Yea they could Beta test games but we already do that with countless free beta testers with open and closed betas.  Unless you are thinking paying these people Minimum wage and be in debt for 40 years to a college that they never got a degree from.  

What's the actual difference between someone getting an e-sports scholarship and someone getting a football scholarship?

SEANMCAD

danwest58 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/esports/uc-irvine-announces-esports-scholarship-204231282.html

What the hell are we thinking.  Really?  Who the hell is going to pay for these college students to come out with no transferable skills to real life.  

sorry are you talking about real sports right now?

danwest58

I do agree a little with real sports scholarships also not being of value outside of the fact that some players who have gone to college end up making a boat load of money.  The problem is there is real money there not like there is in Esports.  How likely are people to pay for a ticket to go watch someone play HOTS against someone else?  Hate to say it but not likely.  If you poll normal people you will find a lot more money spent towards real sports than ESports. 

This is coming from a Gamer.  I will not spend any money to watch someone play a video game that I can pay $60 for and play myself.  That is the enjoyment of video games, anyone can buy the game and play vs real sports you may not make the team or have the ability to play.  

rubydragon5

I read it and I think its a publicity stunt by companies and colleges , I think as Danwest58 said its going to leave them with skills they can't really use when it comes to real world business.

Rusque

But (e)sport scholarships are not about the players/students. I think you're under the assumption that schools intend on providing an education to their (e)athletes. These types of scholarships are about ROI for the institution. Ticket sales, branding and memorabilia, marketing, etc. There may not be as much money in esports as their is in regular sports, but if the expected return is greater than the value of the scholarships, then the answer is "offer esport scholarships".

At no point will their education or scholarly pursuits be of concern to the university. If they can sell UC Irvine LoL Team shirts for $40 to fans, then they will.

SEANMCAD

this thread is sooo painful

1. regular sports scholarship do not provide students with useful real life skills either.
2. quality of life and skills in life are not just measured by only making money.

sayuu

danwest58 said:

I do agree a little with real sports scholarships also not being of value outside of the fact that some players who have gone to college end up making a boat load of money.  The problem is there is real money there not like there is in Esports.  How likely are people to pay for a ticket to go watch someone play HOTS against someone else?  Hate to say it but not likely.  If you poll normal people you will find a lot more money spent towards real sports than ESports. 

This is coming from a Gamer.  I will not spend any money to watch someone play a video game that I can pay $60 for and play myself.  That is the enjoyment of video games, anyone can buy the game and play vs real sports you may not make the team or have the ability to play.  

Oh I see, just because you do not enjoy watching something that makes the thing in question not watchable by everyone else. . . 
What if we went back to 1869, would we hear this same "logic" from people in regards to baseball? would a poll in that time show that 99% of Americans have never seen a professional baseball game? yes yes it would. . that would mean there would NEVER be any money in baseball according to your "logic"



And DUHHHHHHHHHHH there is more money in physical sport, it has been around for thousands of years, while e-sports only a few decades. . .



and your last statement

  "That is the enjoyment of video games, anyone can buy the game and play vs real sports you may not make the team or have the ability to play."

I'm not even going to comment on the absolute stupidity this statement shows. . .

Theocritus

I'd imagine college football generates about 1 million times what esports generates.....

danwest58

rubydragon5 said:

I read it and I think its a publicity stunt by companies and colleges , I think as Danwest58 said its going to leave them with skills they can't really use when it comes to real world business.

Bingo.  At least someone gets it.


Question.  How are these kids going to get ESports scholarships?  They are going to have to play a ton of gaming and prove they are somewhat good.  What will it take for the student to keep up their ESport scholarship?  Are they going to have to play a ton of hours too to keep that you bet your ass he will.  Just like a Academic scholarship you have to keep up your grades, or a Sports Scholarship you have to continue to play sports.  Unless these Scholarships are one and done deals where you get a $5K Scholarship that pays for half the courses for 1 semester than I guess ok but what did the kid accomplish to get the scholarship that will be valuable in the Business world?

The minute you realize ESports have very little value to the business world you realize that these scholarships are useless really outside a very narrow focus that does not translate well into anything else.  I can play a game it does not mean I can program one or design one.  

As for real Sports.  Yes if you play sports what you learn does translate.  If I played ice hockey for a long period of time even if I ended up playing only D1 and never got to the NHL, I could still coach, I could become a Physical or Occupational therapist, I could become a gym trainer, hell you could become like my buddy who only played D3 Hockey for a few years; he is a spinning class trainer part time who makes around 15K  thats on top of running his own business.  His whole hockey career was built around nutrition and what not but its even though he was an OK player.

ESports has no where to go in a real world setting unless by some magic we start seeing millions of people watching Video games being played on TV and a cable network ponies up a lot of money for ESports; This direction is wasted on scholarships.  

ESports has to make a game that is more fun to watch then play, yet people could easily slap down $60 and buy the game to play it themselves.  Again I did SC tournaments in a 2 year span and won around $2000 on my college campus.  Thats because I was a part of the computer club and when we had a match everyone put down $100.  I didnt see GFs of players coming to watch our games, well actually mine did but she ended up playing Realms Online and not watching and I dont see millions of gamers like myself spending money to watch someone play a video game.  A small few will I never did watch one when I paid for Blizzcon.  

Point is the money is not there if the audience is not there.  If NHL teams were not selling 15K+ tickets per game plus the cable contracts and all the rest of the stuff that goes with the NHL, NHL players wouldn't be playing for $10.5 Million contracts.  

SEANMCAD

danwest58 said:

rubydragon5 said:

I read it and I think its a publicity stunt by companies and colleges , I think as Danwest58 said its going to leave them with skills they can't really use when it comes to real world business.

Bingo.  At least someone gets it.

let me try a more direct approach to the points people have been trying to make

do you think traditional sports scholarships enable the kids to leave college with the skills they can use in the real world of business? and if so please expand a bit on how and the difference.

danwest58

SEANMCAD said:

danwest58 said:

rubydragon5 said:

I read it and I think its a publicity stunt by companies and colleges , I think as Danwest58 said its going to leave them with skills they can't really use when it comes to real world business.

Bingo.  At least someone gets it.

let me try a more direct approach to the points people have been trying to make

do you think traditional sports scholarships enable the kids to leave college with the skills they can use in the real world of business? and if so please expand a bit on how and the difference.

I just did but you ignored everything I said.  

SEANMCAD

danwest58 said:

SEANMCAD said:

danwest58 said:

rubydragon5 said:

I read it and I think its a publicity stunt by companies and colleges , I think as Danwest58 said its going to leave them with skills they can't really use when it comes to real world business.

Bingo.  At least someone gets it.

let me try a more direct approach to the points people have been trying to make

do you think traditional sports scholarships enable the kids to leave college with the skills they can use in the real world of business? and if so please expand a bit on how and the difference.

I just did but you ignored everything I said.  

ah sorry!

so the difference is basically because a sports player if he needs to can get a job as a coach but right now there isnt any jobs as e-coaches...yet

yeah pretty weak but it is an answer

Solar_Prophet

Business as usual. Kids will continue to get into schools, fart around for a few years and graduate with a 'D' average with a useless liberal arts degree. Then instead of blaming themselves for their own stupid choices, they'll bitch and moan and whine about not being able to find a job and clamor for government assistance while showing up to protest Donald Trump because their left-wing professors told them that all their woes are the fault of the 1%, capitalism, and political conservatives while extolling the virtues of economic and governmental systems which don't work, never have worked, and never will work. But they offer 'free' stuff, so woohoo!

At least regular sports scholarships mean they'll graduate in decent physical condition. With E-sports even that benefit is stripped away, and they'll graduate with no real future while fat, out of shape, and suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome instead of lean and fit. 

SEANMCAD

Solar_Prophet said:

Business as usual. Kids will continue to get into schools, fart around for a few years and graduate with a 'D' average with a useless liberal arts degree. Then instead of blaming themselves for their own stupid choices, they'll bitch and moan and whine about not being able to find a job and clamor for government assistance while showing up to protest Donald Trump because their left-wing professors told them that all their woes are the fault of the 1%, capitalism, and political conservatives while extolling the virtues of economic and governmental systems which don't work, never have worked, and never will work. But they offer 'free' stuff, so woohoo!

At least regular sports scholarships mean they'll graduate in decent physical condition. With E-sports even that benefit is stripped away, and they'll graduate with no real future while fat, out of shape, and suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome instead of lean and fit. 

wait..

the kid that stayed up late to learn math and science and got a computer science degree made worse life choice then the guy who was out in the yard late at night playing with a ball?

Seelinnikoi

SEANMCAD said:

2. quality of life and skills in life are not just measured by only making money.

Nope, it's measured if you can get a penta. Lol

danwest58

Solar_Prophet said:

Business as usual. Kids will continue to get into schools, fart around for a few years and graduate with a 'D' average with a useless liberal arts degree. Then instead of blaming themselves for their own stupid choices, they'll bitch and moan and whine about not being able to find a job and clamor for government assistance while showing up to protest Donald Trump because their left-wing professors told them that all their woes are the fault of the 1%, capitalism, and political conservatives while extolling the virtues of economic and governmental systems which don't work, never have worked, and never will work. But they offer 'free' stuff, so woohoo!

At least regular sports scholarships mean they'll graduate in decent physical condition. With E-sports even that benefit is stripped away, and they'll graduate with no real future while fat, out of shape, and suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome instead of lean and fit. 

Thats a lot of what I am getting at in this thread.  Now if the ESport scholarship required college students to have X amount of skill with Programming or Graphic Design or System\Network administration skills and take computer\gaming design classes in college then yes these scholarships would be useful.  That would be because Programmers, Graphics Designers and System\Network guys are useful all over in business not just for games.  This is what people with a sports background if they dont take basket weaving can do, and if they take basket weaving you can give a guy a shovel and have him shovel shit for the rest of his life.  

I am looking a practicality vs day dream type of stuff.  

danwest58

SEANMCAD said:

Solar_Prophet said:

Business as usual. Kids will continue to get into schools, fart around for a few years and graduate with a 'D' average with a useless liberal arts degree. Then instead of blaming themselves for their own stupid choices, they'll bitch and moan and whine about not being able to find a job and clamor for government assistance while showing up to protest Donald Trump because their left-wing professors told them that all their woes are the fault of the 1%, capitalism, and political conservatives while extolling the virtues of economic and governmental systems which don't work, never have worked, and never will work. But they offer 'free' stuff, so woohoo!

At least regular sports scholarships mean they'll graduate in decent physical condition. With E-sports even that benefit is stripped away, and they'll graduate with no real future while fat, out of shape, and suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome instead of lean and fit. 

wait..

the kid that stayed up late to learn math and science and got a computer science degree made worse life choice then the guy who was out in the yard late at night playing with a ball?

I dont think you get it.  Most of these guys that will get a degree for Esports will not graduate with a Comp Sci Degree if the focus is E-Sports.  If the requirement of this scholarship will be that people who receive this scholarship to have IT related skills including being good at gaming plus have to take and get an IT related Degree then yes it will be different.  But if the focus is around players playing Video games all day to keep up their skills then the scholarship will not be good.  

danwest58

Robokapp said:

casuals be hating hard in this thread.

I am not talking about Angry Birds.    

Agnhar

Its great as long as they don't come out being as the 21st century version of bullies, nerds cyber bullies.

simsalabim77

What the hell are you talking about? They can still choose whatever major they want. It's like a sports scholarship.

CrazKanuk

danwest58 said:

rubydragon5 said:

I read it and I think its a publicity stunt by companies and colleges , I think as Danwest58 said its going to leave them with skills they can't really use when it comes to real world business.

Bingo.  At least someone gets it.


Question.  How are these kids going to get ESports scholarships?  They are going to have to play a ton of gaming and prove they are somewhat good.  What will it take for the student to keep up their ESport scholarship?  Are they going to have to play a ton of hours too to keep that you bet your ass he will.  Just like a Academic scholarship you have to keep up your grades, or a Sports Scholarship you have to continue to play sports.  Unless these Scholarships are one and done deals where you get a $5K Scholarship that pays for half the courses for 1 semester than I guess ok but what did the kid accomplish to get the scholarship that will be valuable in the Business world?

The minute you realize ESports have very little value to the business world you realize that these scholarships are useless really outside a very narrow focus that does not translate well into anything else.  I can play a game it does not mean I can program one or design one.  

As for real Sports.  Yes if you play sports what you learn does translate.  If I played ice hockey for a long period of time even if I ended up playing only D1 and never got to the NHL, I could still coach, I could become a Physical or Occupational therapist, I could become a gym trainer, hell you could become like my buddy who only played D3 Hockey for a few years; he is a spinning class trainer part time who makes around 15K  thats on top of running his own business.  His whole hockey career was built around nutrition and what not but its even though he was an OK player.

ESports has no where to go in a real world setting unless by some magic we start seeing millions of people watching Video games being played on TV and a cable network ponies up a lot of money for ESports; This direction is wasted on scholarships.  

ESports has to make a game that is more fun to watch then play, yet people could easily slap down $60 and buy the game to play it themselves.  Again I did SC tournaments in a 2 year span and won around $2000 on my college campus.  Thats because I was a part of the computer club and when we had a match everyone put down $100.  I didnt see GFs of players coming to watch our games, well actually mine did but she ended up playing Realms Online and not watching and I dont see millions of gamers like myself spending money to watch someone play a video game.  A small few will I never did watch one when I paid for Blizzcon.  

Point is the money is not there if the audience is not there.  If NHL teams were not selling 15K+ tickets per game plus the cable contracts and all the rest of the stuff that goes with the NHL, NHL players wouldn't be playing for $10.5 Million contracts.  

Do they "get it"? You're assuming that YOU get it. 

First of all, educate yourself on e-sports. ESPN and Yahoo sports have already started dedicated e-sports channels. Why? Huh, probably because more people watch the LoL finals than the NBA Championships! The only people who don't seem to understand that e-sports is big is Murca. Probably because the American teams aren't the best. However, that's probably another reason that this business will only grow. Despite what you might think, there is plenty of investment coming for e-sports. If there wasn't, nobody would care about getting into it. However, there are big investments going into e-sports, even in North America. I have a friend who works in e-sports and Vegas is dumping tons of money into e-sports platforms. 

As far as their prospects. So you're saying that someone who plays e-sports cannot become a coach, physio or occupational therapist, trainer, etc? Wow, next thing you're going to tell me is that women should only be allowed to work in the kitchen. You are assuming that someone who is playing real sports somehow has some insight that they could lend to someone in the way of being a coach or a trainer or something. That's not a given. In FACT, there are a plethora of real sports athletes who probably should have taken a course or two in finance because they are in such financial ruin after making millions that it's ridiculous So where are they? What did that scholarship do for them? They got to live it up for 5 or 10 years? 

Again, see the article above. 334 million viewers of the LoL Championship. Also, in Asia, they PACK arenas. I don't know if they actually pay to get in or not, but it's pretty ridiculous crowds. 40,000 fans watched the 2014 finals live. That's probably more than the majority of NHL Hockey games, most MLB Baseball teams, and some NFL football teams. In 2015, I don't know how many people are here, but looks like a lot to me (in Berlin).


So, looks like the audience is there. Looks like the TV money is coming (ESPN and Yahoo leading the charge), so what's your argument? How is this different than a regular sports scholarship, again? I think that Americans have a tough time wrapping their head around how big this is. I actually think that they have a tough time wrapping their head around the fact that soccer is bigger than any of the sports they enjoy. I think it boils down more to American ignorance than anything else. If it's not big in Murica how could it be big anywhere? 

SEANMCAD

danwest58 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Solar_Prophet said:

Business as usual. Kids will continue to get into schools, fart around for a few years and graduate with a 'D' average with a useless liberal arts degree. Then instead of blaming themselves for their own stupid choices, they'll bitch and moan and whine about not being able to find a job and clamor for government assistance while showing up to protest Donald Trump because their left-wing professors told them that all their woes are the fault of the 1%, capitalism, and political conservatives while extolling the virtues of economic and governmental systems which don't work, never have worked, and never will work. But they offer 'free' stuff, so woohoo!

At least regular sports scholarships mean they'll graduate in decent physical condition. With E-sports even that benefit is stripped away, and they'll graduate with no real future while fat, out of shape, and suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome instead of lean and fit. 

wait..

the kid that stayed up late to learn math and science and got a computer science degree made worse life choice then the guy who was out in the yard late at night playing with a ball?

I dont think you get it.  Most of these guys that will get a degree for Esports will not graduate with a Comp Sci Degree if the focus is E-Sports.  If the requirement of this scholarship will be that people who receive this scholarship to have IT related skills including being good at gaming plus have to take and get an IT related Degree then yes it will be different.  But if the focus is around players playing Video games all day to keep up their skills then the scholarship will not be good.  

please read the post above it.

I just replaced his logic of 'liberal arts' with 'math and science'

he seems to think that the smarter way to approach life is to spend extra time playing with balls

SirAgravaine

These images are for one game. Whoever thinks there is not money in watching people play games or eSports, certainly has no mind for business which devalues their opinion on the subject entirely.

Rusque

danwest58 said:

 

Thats a lot of what I am getting at in this thread.  Now if the ESport scholarship required college students to have X amount of skill with Programming or Graphic Design or System\Network administration skills and take computer\gaming design classes in college then yes these scholarships would be useful.  That would be because Programmers, Graphics Designers and System\Network guys are useful all over in business not just for games.  This is what people with a sports background if they dont take basket weaving can do, and if they take basket weaving you can give a guy a shovel and have him shovel shit for the rest of his life.  

I am looking a practicality vs day dream type of stuff.  

I'm not sure there are many basket weaving grads, I'm not even sure if basket weaving is all that common of a class at most universities.

And just to note, graphic design is a liberal arts program. In fact 3D design, animation, and pretty much everything involving art and design stem from liberal arts. Let's not forget writing, acting (including voice acting), cinematography (someone is story boarding and directing CGI films too), etc etc are all liberal arts.

I don't know why when people hear "liberal arts" they think of nonsense like basket weaving when so many jobs are built on liberal art foundations. My undergrad was in fine arts (painting and photography), I followed that up with an MBA in international marketing and management. I work as a digital marketing and communication specialist and do a whole lot of graphic design for marketing (print & web) materials. I also consult with various centers at our institution on branding and UI/UX for application design.

You're surrounded by liberal arts everywhere you look. Someone made the font used on the forums and on the advertisements that littler the perimeter of this site (if you don't use adblock), someone drew the artwork in those ads, someone made the video content and planned the marketing behind whatever game is being promoted, it's being managed by a community manager and PR person/team, physical collectors editions often come with statues and maps that were made by an artist, and so on and so on and so on.

If everyone went for "practical" degrees, then we'd have nothing but doctors, lawyers, financial analysts, and programmers and the world would suck.