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For Those Claiming BDO's CS is P2W

13

Comments

  • n3v3rriv3rn3v3rriv3r Member UncommonPosts: 496
    they offer more than that and you know it. Not to mention the whole RNG aspect where most pets lose base passives and revert to less desirable modifiers all in an attempt to sucker people into buying as many pets as it takes to get the 'perfect' one, which some people (after hundreds of dollars) still havent gotten.
     3 pets, maxed for this boost, offer upto 9% exp boost max at any one time. WHOOPEE DOO.

    That's pay to win? Jesus guys, get a grip.
    Oh hello, you are that that strawman champion. You didn't disappoint even this time. Let me try and show you a straw man at least close to your level:

    So you think people are not buying pets because they are useless? Jesus dude look at the amount of pets in game. WHOLOLALOLO POOP.

    (Pets are not the only issue you whoopeedoo.)
  • SirmatthiasSirmatthias Member UncommonPosts: 562
    I think its easy just to avoid a game that makes you buy dumb ass pets to follow you around so they can pick up your gear. makes a lot of sense slaying a dragon and I need my cat that chases lazers with me to go pick up that spear with its paws....(slaps forehead)
  • AzmodeusAzmodeus Member UncommonPosts: 268
    I think its easy just to avoid a game that makes you buy dumb ass pets to follow you around so they can pick up your gear. makes a lot of sense slaying a dragon and I need my cat that chases lazers with me to go pick up that spear with its paws....(slaps forehead)
    You know you can just manually loot the dragon, right? You don't need any pet for that.

    Save your breath man.  Some of these posters in here would not know a good game if they tripped over it. 
      OMG I am Ancient!
  • SirmatthiasSirmatthias Member UncommonPosts: 562
    ok But this game from what ive read (lol not personally played) is that its AoE fest and drops are insane on how often you have to loot each monster?
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Azmodeus said:
    I think its easy just to avoid a game that makes you buy dumb ass pets to follow you around so they can pick up your gear. makes a lot of sense slaying a dragon and I need my cat that chases lazers with me to go pick up that spear with its paws....(slaps forehead)
    You know you can just manually loot the dragon, right? You don't need any pet for that.

    Save your breath man.  Some of these posters in here would not know a good game if they tripped over it. 
    That would mean since it is useless nobody would buy it right,therefor no p2w therefor they do not have any pets for sale in CS and therefore they do not loot for you saving you any time at all because time is not important either.Great developer not selling anything worthwhile in the CS,guess not selling a worthwhile game either.

    AFK fish botting ,perfect game play,doesn't make any more sense than to have a game play itself,after all we don't play games for FUN we just buy them then go afk.

    This also means that of course since there is no value therefore not p2w they did not sell any of those packs with the pet.
    The blind leading the blind.This earth is full of people that walk around blind to everything around them,i don't hate those people,i feel sorry for them.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391
    edited March 2016
    ok But this game from what ive read (lol not personally played) is that its AoE fest and drops are insane on how often you have to loot each monster?
    I play this game quite a bit and I will admit that pets are greatly recommended, however with that being said pets are just $9. You can just get the $50 version of the game (which most box MMO's cost that much anyways) and get a pet with that. It also gives some other useful things.

    You can easily play the game by spending just $50 and not feel obligated at all to spend more. I think it's a fair enough deal.


    Edit: and another thing to note is that you can just pick the dog pet if you think the ghillie suit is an issue (though honestly it's not unless you're intentionally not trying to pvp at all)
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Wizardry said:
    Azmodeus said:
    I think its easy just to avoid a game that makes you buy dumb ass pets to follow you around so they can pick up your gear. makes a lot of sense slaying a dragon and I need my cat that chases lazers with me to go pick up that spear with its paws....(slaps forehead)
    You know you can just manually loot the dragon, right? You don't need any pet for that.

    Save your breath man.  Some of these posters in here would not know a good game if they tripped over it. 
    That would mean since it is useless nobody would buy it right,therefor no p2w therefor they do not have any pets for sale in CS and therefore they do not loot for you saving you any time at all because time is not important either.Great developer not selling anything worthwhile in the CS,guess not selling a worthwhile game either.

    AFK fish botting ,perfect game play,doesn't make any more sense than to have a game play itself,after all we don't play games for FUN we just buy them then go afk.

    This also means that of course since there is no value therefore not p2w they did not sell any of those packs with the pet.
    The blind leading the blind.This earth is full of people that walk around blind to everything around them,i don't hate those people,i feel sorry for them.

    1.  I have a dog.  I got him just because I liked the way the pet looks and because I wanted to support the game.  Other than that, the pet is useless to me.  I didn't get him for any other reason than to have him as a companion.  I am pretty sure I am not the only one.  Not all of us are interested in paying to get an advantage. Some of us just play to derive enjoyment and not constantly worried about what another player is doing.

    2.  I don't AFK fish.  While there are obviously others that do, that does not affect my game play in any way. Its obviously fun for them, I don't feel the need to do it.  They play the game the way they find enjoyable, I play the game the way I find it enjoyable.  That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

    3.  The pets have value.  That value is subjective depending on the value that the particular owner places on it.  The fact they loot is a convenience, not a P2W feature unless you are the type of player who is constantly worried about what another player has, and can't stand the fact that another player is willing to pay for it, whereas you feel entitled to be given everything for free.

    Finally, feel sorry for yourself for lacking the consideration, understanding and tolerance for the manner in which others find enjoyment in a manner that you do not, and that differs from what you find enjoyable.  




  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668

    Finally, feel sorry for yourself for lacking the consideration, understanding and tolerance for the manner in which others find enjoyment in a manner that you do not, and that differs from what you find enjoyable.  




    Wizardy seems to be a very jaded and bitter gamer. Other than FFXI, he has seldom spoken positively on anything. I do feel sorry for those that have so little joy in their lives they feel the need to debase everything for what purpose only they can fathom.
    Life's too short to be so bitter   :awesome: 

  • Tyr216Tyr216 Member UncommonPosts: 168
    If a game gets a new P2W thread every other day either supporting or denying, then it's probably a game I'm not going to want to play regardless. I like games with business models that are so straight-forward, nobody ever says anything about it being P2W one way or another.

    image
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited March 2016
    Tyr216 said:
    If a game gets a new P2W thread every other day either supporting or denying, then it's probably a game I'm not going to want to play regardless. I like games with business models that are so straight-forward, nobody ever says anything about it being P2W one way or another.

    Good luck with that.  Any game worth playing is a game in which you have a lot of back and forth regarding the virtues of that game.  Any game in which you find no heated discussions about its cash shop and its haters claiming it to be P2W, is not worth playing.  The haters only come out en-force when a game is popular and there are many people enjoying it.  They can't stand that others are enjoying a game and they are not.  They mostly just do it in an attempt to debase the game in any way possible, even though there is no substance behind that debasement.  BDO is a perfect example.  It has one of, if not the, least intrusive and P2W cash shop of any MMORPG out there right now, yet haters are throwing doo-doo at it hoping that it sticks.  Unfortunately for them, they are failing miserably in their efforts, and the more they fail the harder they try.
  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Tyr216 said:
    If a game gets a new P2W thread every other day either supporting or denying, then it's probably a game I'm not going to want to play regardless. I like games with business models that are so straight-forward, nobody ever says anything about it being P2W one way or another.
    It just means you're easily manipulated by what you read. You should probably not do that and instead make your own decisions.
  • Kane72Kane72 Member UncommonPosts: 211
    edited March 2016
    People are still paying $100 a year plus for WoW, for what exactly? BDO was the cheapest B2P MMO I can think of and no sub. That'll do nicely.

    I'll take this optional cash shop any time because guess what, I'm not competing with other players, i'm doing things in the game to satisfy myself and I don't care what other players have - some will be better than you, some will not. So what!
  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608
    Luiden said:
    pingo said:
    Luiden said:
    The fact that there is this much discussion about if it's P2W or not makes it by default a P2W game.  If it wasn't a P2W game then there would be no posts about it.  So continue fooling yourself that you aren't playing a game where somebody can pay RL money to have an advantage.
    How do you justify this logic? Do you apply this logic to other areas in life?
    Yes, absolutely.  Where there is smoke, there is fire.  If it looks like shit and smells like shit, then it's shit.  If you are walking down an alley and a group of Thugs are coming then walk the other way, it's called common sense.  

    If there is thread after thread arguing over if a game is P2W or not then it's common sense to assume that it is P2W and you just have a group of fanbois trying to justify that it is not.  For games that are clearly not P2W you do not see the same level of argument.  So you can continue to waste time and your money arguing that a game that you got hooked on like crack will end costing you greatly to succeed in, or you can just assume what many are saying and that it's P2W and should be avoided.. that is of course unless you like paying money for accomplishments.
    This logic is factually absurd. Not only because a lot of the discussion is about what p2w even is. As been discussed, the metric changes from person to person. So the idea that the volume as far as your biased eyes can see, is your indicator for as something to be true or false is profoundly ignorant. Do you always believe the majority to be right? I guess because there is a lot of love for Donald Trump you support him too? 

    I mean, using your amazing analytical and critical thinking skills- If Donald Trump wasn't a great man, there clearly wouldn't have been this level of discussion around Donald Trump. So people who don't like Donald Trump can continue to waste their time and their vote arguing that he is not great because they don't see his greatess, or you can just assume what many are saying and that he is great and should be president. That is of course unless you like voting for idiots with no accomplishments. 


    What you see in forum drama on the internet is not a good estimate of how something is to be believed. It's a biased selective sample bite taken from knee jerk reactions that ignore the vast majority of people who do not engage because they don't necessarily have anything to vent about. 

    But even if it was so that every BDO gamer felt it was p2w and they all came online to tell everyone it was p2w, the majority having an opinion or something, still does not make that right. Socrates am i rite? 
    You're advocating that someone is guilty of something when accused of something. You're advocating a stance where there doesn't have to be any proof or examination of the accusation, but that something is, simply under the guise that there wouldn't have been anything had it not been true. That is selective bias, and is only an indicator of seeing what you want to see.



    A more logical argument would have been; well BDO is P2W in Korea, and therefore I believe it will sooner or later be p2w in the west? That's a pessimistic opinion, but at least in that line of thought there is a logical rhetoric of examining past behaviors of competitors and the credibility of the Asian MMO publishers. I would be more inclined to think that could be true. 

    But I don't follow your guilty by association nonsense. I do think BDO really requires you to spend money in its shop for it to really be optimal (cosmetic outfit and a pet, 36 dollars for me personally) but I dont think that has anything to do with p2w.

    And I think its less envasive than SWTOR, and BnS with their hybrid sub/free models. I think the cash shop outfits in BDO are expensive, but so are they in other games. The first mount ever to be released in the cash shop in WoW was also 25 dollars. 
    But none of these things give a direct power advantage. So they are not p2w. Except for the ghuille suit, which they have said- they are working on a solution.



    And look - I have no personal beef in this. I will never be a competitive pvper in BDO as I am a filthy casual and since there is no meta p2w doesnt make a lot sense. It really doesnt. There isn't raid tiers or gear locks in this game. The game is completely indifferent about those things at this point, so even this idea about talking about a meta, when you dont actually even have a level cap is ehh. 

    It might be p2w in the future. Who knows. But then again, so may everything else be. I'd like to see it not be p2w. That would be a shame, but I am not gonna jump for the fence before it has happened.(ignoring ghuille suit)
  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608

    ok But this game from what ive read (lol not personally played) is that its AoE fest and drops are insane on how often you have to loot each monster?
    Can confirm, I highly recommend the pet, and if you grind for skillz then get 3 pets. You can have 3 at once. Each pet loots every 10 second. with the ultra fast spawn rate at some mobs the corpses disappear incredible fast.

    grab an outfit they have no stats but a 10% levelling rate. greatly appreciated. Need to equip pieces, but you can hide every piece if you want to display the default in-game stats armor. 


    As for the underwear with +1 luck. Not that significant. I didnt see any difference with them on. 


    The game has a pretty good loyalty system from what I can see. You net these loyalty points. I think its 100 for each day you play, and you also get them for achiving lvl 10, 20, 30 and so on. They shower you with rewards for doing different things. I think its 5000 points for a free character slot, so if you play a fair amount, there are substantial freebies for you. 



    Resist the urge to buy inventory expansion. It's part of the game to deal with the weight and lack of in game storage and in your cities warehouses. The Dye system is very deep, but its somewhat more clunky than GW2. Still, its very impressive level of Dye customization. 
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    ok But this game from what ive read (lol not personally played) is that its AoE fest and drops are insane on how often you have to loot each monster?
    Great we have another one :)
    ....
  • DarkPeTruSDarkPeTruS Member CommonPosts: 1
    Vardahoth said:
    Anything that gives you an advantage over another play who does not pay into a cash shop is pay 2 win in my eyes.

    They forgot the +1 luck from underwear (+10% drop rate for items).

    Then there is the ghillie suit (making your name invisible) to help you do better in open-world pvp situations.

    Any items that do the following:
    bonuses for drop rate
    bonuses for exp
    recharge bonuses
    bag slot bonuses
    environment bonuses
    action bonuses
    stat bonuses

    That when all is added together will result in you spending less time doing (in-between refill times) over someone who does not open their wallet will always be pay to win in my eyes. I've decided to drop this game as another cash grab game. And I bet you a year from now you will start seeing items that gives you atk bonuses, and +50% drop rate bonuses.
    I'm agree with you and i've registered only for respond to your comment.

    Certainly, BDO have some P2W in that point of view, where you can get advantages if you pay real cash.

    But, and that is my answer, What MMO don't have P2W in that fact?

    In all games, you can get some advantages if you pay real money. 

    Guild Wars 2 for example. If you pay, you can get gems. With gems you can get potions, gold.... 

    Well, with real money you can get all that you want in this game...


    In addition, any game that boasts, has Chinese farmers and you can get gold anyway....

    The person with the idea of paying, will pay and we can't do anything about it.


    In this game, they know it. You can't trade weapons, so, the person who would buy the best weapon of the game, need to buy drop rate bonuses or what is needed for get it (and he supports directly the game)...


  • snoxbrsnoxbr Member UncommonPosts: 1
    tera, aion, wow, uo, PoE, and a lot more... only sell cosmetic item and profit a lot, dont tell all mmo is p2w
  • sketocafesketocafe Member UncommonPosts: 950
    That's a pretty awful post, they're just trying to downplay the advantages buying from the cash shop gives. If there is any advantage available only to those who spend money, then it's p2w, full stop. If I can never earn through playing the game the same vision radius you bought from the devs, then you've paid for an advantage over me and it matters not a bit how slim the advantage may be, it's still there.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    The game is totally P2W

    I pay these two little teenage dudes to pawn everybody's faces. One controls the mouse, the other... the keyboard.

    Two heads are better than one. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    Here's the truth about BDO and the cash shop.  If you are the type of person that needs to have every advantage as someone else, then this game is P2W.  The advantages you get are minimal however in most cases.  There are some situations where the advantage is slightly better than others.  There are some REALLY nice convenience items that some could see as P2W honestly.  The weight one being most notable.  It's obvious that Daum is the middle man in the situation and comparing it to the Pearl Abyss company which handles Korean Store directly, Daum honestly is looking like a corporate greed machine.  

    Korean store has basic dyes in game, pets you can catch in game and more sets of armors and custom designs you can choose from IN GAME.  There is no reason or explanation why some of this stuff is not in the NA/EU side of things.

    EXAMPLE:
     When Mediah expansion launched in Korea, they implemented auto-loop (which allows you to run around in circles.)  There's a way to still do it in the NA/EU servers now by rebinding your hotkeys, but it's not widely known.  This is important because the more you run around with trade goods on your back, the stronger you become.  You then can carry more weight.  Daum has not implemented this option like Pearl Abyss has because they want people buying the weight limit increase.  

    It's a phenomenal game.  It's developed by a phenomenal company that treats their customers really well. However Daum is not that company and they want their piece of the pie as well.  A big piece.

    Just keeping it real.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited April 2016
    Here's the truth about BDO and the cash shop.  If you are the type of person that needs to have every advantage as someone else, then this game is P2W.  The advantages you get are minimal however in most cases.  There are some situations where the advantage is slightly better than others.  There are some REALLY nice convenience items that some could see as P2W honestly.  The weight one being most notable.  It's obvious that Daum is the middle man in the situation and comparing it to the Pearl Abyss company which handles Korean Store directly, Daum honestly is looking like a corporate greed machine.  

    Korean store has basic dyes in game, pets you can catch in game and more sets of armors and custom designs you can choose from IN GAME.  There is no reason or explanation why some of this stuff is not in the NA/EU side of things.

    EXAMPLE:
     When Mediah expansion launched in Korea, they implemented auto-loop (which allows you to run around in circles.)  There's a way to still do it in the NA/EU servers now by rebinding your hotkeys, but it's not widely known.  This is important because the more you run around with trade goods on your back, the stronger you become.  You then can carry more weight.  Daum has not implemented this option like Pearl Abyss has because they want people buying the weight limit increase.  

    It's a phenomenal game.  It's developed by a phenomenal company that treats their customers really well. However Daum is not that company and they want their piece of the pie as well.  A big piece.

    Just keeping it real.


    You said it best with this line ...

    "If you are the type of person that needs to have every advantage as someone else, then this game is P2W." 

    ... but even then it's just a matter of perception.  Perception is reality no matter how unreal the situation.  If you perceive these items of convenience to be P2W, no matter what anyone else says to try and convince you otherwise they are not going to change your mind.

    That auto-loop feature falls into the same category.  Only those who are worried about getting ahead worry about such features.  From my perspective, those AFK features detract from the game, not add to it.  I mean, why pay to play a game only to have the game play itself?  It just doesn't make sense to me.  AFK features water down a players accomplishments because these are not earned accomplishments if to achieve them all one did was set a macro auto-loop feature then went to sleep while it accomplished the feat for them. What is there to a game if the effort to accomplish its features are achieved automatically without effort from the player?  How is that a win or anything to be proud of, when the game was the "player" that accomplished the feat without any effort from the actual players themselves?

    Lastly, regarding the dyes and other features that KR has that we don't.  We don't know what the future holds for the game.  With the exception of the cash shop prices, which are admittedly quite high, I think Daum has done really well with their release of BDO in NA/EU.  From an arguable POV, I would be remiss to dismiss claims that they are being greedy.  That said, could it also be possible that they are simply taking advantage of early pioneers in an effort to recoup their expenses to this point, but once they become more financially stable the cash shop will more closely resemble the KR cash shop?  I think that just as good an argument could be made for the cash becoming more affordable as it could about the cash shop becoming more expensive and P2W.  But the truth of the matter is that we really don't know.  I doubt even Daum knows how their cash shop will look in the future.  And thats because a lot of it has to do with metrics and a lot of dynamics going forward.  Only time will truly tell.
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,676
    edited April 2016

    Lastly, regarding the dyes and other features that KR has that we don't.  We don't know what the future holds for the game.  With the exception of the cash shop prices, which are admittedly quite high, I think Daum has done really well with their release of BDO in NA/EU.  From an arguable POV, I would be remiss to dismiss claims that they are being greedy.  That said, could it also be possible that they are simply taking advantage of early pioneers in an effort to recoup their expenses to this point, but once they become more financially stable the cash shop will more closely resemble the KR cash shop?  I think that just as good an argument could be made for the cash becoming more affordable as it could about the cash shop becoming more expensive and P2W.  But the truth of the matter is that we really don't know.  I doubt even Daum knows how their cash shop will look in the future.  And thats because a lot of it has to do with metrics and a lot of dynamics going forward.  Only time will truly tell.
    Daum has stated in a conference that their revenues now are actually very good but they expect their revenues to drop by the end of the year. (which is logical for a B2P game where most cash shop purchases are one-time permanent purchases like costumes and pets)

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/60090-future-content-updates-interview-for-invencokr/

    If anything, I expect the cash shop to be more aggressive when that happens.  Once their revenue stream dries up a bit by the end of the year, Daum has to make money somehow and I doubt "lowering the price to make the cash shop more affordable" (which basically equates to trying to squeeze a teeny bit of money out of the few players who don't already have their cash shop items by that point) would do it.

    And um... I think anyone who doesn't want BDO to become P2W likely does NOT want the game to become like Korea's cash shop, I imagine.
  • ThexReporterThexReporter Member UncommonPosts: 124
    I like that RTFM's LMNOP is ASAP
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,389
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned ESO, unless I missed it.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,167
    bentrim said:
    WOW...honestly people...if you don't like the setup in the game...DONT PLAY. Those of you who cant afford to play.....MOVE ON!!!! Find something else to bitch about!
    What about those of us that can afford it but don't want to give money to someone who looks like they're preparing to buttfuck us?
    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


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