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Rumor: Nvidia’s Pascal Architecture Is In Trouble With Asynchronous Compute

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited March 2016
    Ridelynn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    I think its odd how people clearly understand that there is a market for high end video cards, that market does exist, people do buy them and they buy them enough for a company to make money and to continue to supply for that market....any yet....
    The bold part is where you are incorrect. The top end products are merely halo products. They have huge profit margins, yes, but if that were the only product a company were to produce, they would not stay in business very long.


    right...kind like how a company also needs a Gear VR...I get it but at least those halo products from geforce sell out in seconds

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059
    You seem to be continually impressed when a product run of a dozen or so of any product "sells out".

    Get over it, it's a marketing trick, and you keep throwing it around like it means something important.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited March 2016
    Ridelynn said:
    You seem to be continually impressed when a product run of a dozen or so of any product "sells out".

    Get over it, it's a marketing trick, and you keep throwing it around like it means something important.
    1. still a larger sell out than the 'halo' products
     2. also you could please link me to what A## you found that number of 12 or so from? thanks

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    edited March 2016
    Ridelynn said:
    Honestly,

    I'm just not that worried about async compute or DX12. Nothing I play right now uses it. Once something does come along that I want to play that supports it, if it's important to me at the time, I'll take a look at what's on the market then.

    But right now, it just seems like DX12/Vulcan/Async/Mantle whatever has been "ready to go" for a long time now, since even before Win10. And a few titles support it, but not many. And of those, most are not all that well (cough* ark *cough).

    Don't get me wrong, I giggle a bit because it's one area where AMD beats the snot out of nVidia, and I'm a fan of the underdog. But it just isn't that important right now, especially since Pascal, for all intents and purposes, is still firmly in the "Vaporware" category.
    So vaporware that initial Polaris support has been added to Mesa and LLVM order to try and have Linux support at day 1.  And there are beta open source (by AMD) drivers too available.
    Post edited by NightHaveN on
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,090
    SEANMCAD said:
    Ridelynn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    I think its odd how people clearly understand that there is a market for high end video cards, that market does exist, people do buy them and they buy them enough for a company to make money and to continue to supply for that market....any yet....
    The bold part is where you are incorrect. The top end products are merely halo products. They have huge profit margins, yes, but if that were the only product a company were to produce, they would not stay in business very long.


    right...kind like how a company also needs a Gear VR...I get it but at least those halo products from geforce sell out in seconds
    Halo video cards sell out awfully quickly, too, when they do a soft launch with barely any cards available.  That happened with both the Fury X and the Titan X, for example.
  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    I take that with a grain of salt, but if is true then Nvidia will be hard at work forcing developers to keep the feature off, or optimizing for cases when is off.

    But competition is good.  Keep better hardware at more competitive prices.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Quizzical said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Ridelynn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    I think its odd how people clearly understand that there is a market for high end video cards, that market does exist, people do buy them and they buy them enough for a company to make money and to continue to supply for that market....any yet....
    The bold part is where you are incorrect. The top end products are merely halo products. They have huge profit margins, yes, but if that were the only product a company were to produce, they would not stay in business very long.


    right...kind like how a company also needs a Gear VR...I get it but at least those halo products from geforce sell out in seconds
    Halo video cards sell out awfully quickly, too, when they do a soft launch with barely any cards available.  That happened with both the Fury X and the Titan X, for example.
    so....these halo products do well? 

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • olepiolepi Member RarePosts: 1,433
    It'll be interesting to see what comes of the Intel interest in AMD graphics cards.

    ------------
    2020: 43 years on the Net.


  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059
    SEANMCAD said:
    Quizzical said:
    Halo video cards sell out awfully quickly, too, when they do a soft launch with barely any cards available.  That happened with both the Fury X and the Titan X, for example.
    so....these halo products do well? 
    Yeah, they do so well they don't even sell enough to be listed above "Other" on the Steam Hardware Survey.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Ridelynn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Quizzical said:
    Halo video cards sell out awfully quickly, too, when they do a soft launch with barely any cards available.  That happened with both the Fury X and the Titan X, for example.
    so....these halo products do well? 
    Yeah, they do so well they don't even sell enough to be listed above "Other" on the Steam Hardware Survey.
    so they sell out but dont sell where is that what you are saying based on Steam Hardware Survey?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059
    SEANMCAD said:
    Ridelynn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Quizzical said:
    Halo video cards sell out awfully quickly, too, when they do a soft launch with barely any cards available.  That happened with both the Fury X and the Titan X, for example.
    so....these halo products do well? 
    Yeah, they do so well they don't even sell enough to be listed above "Other" on the Steam Hardware Survey.
    so they sell out but dont sell where is that what you are saying based on Steam Hardware Survey?
    Yup, that's exactly what everyone here is saying. 
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Ridelynn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Ridelynn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Quizzical said:
    Halo video cards sell out awfully quickly, too, when they do a soft launch with barely any cards available.  That happened with both the Fury X and the Titan X, for example.
    so....these halo products do well? 
    Yeah, they do so well they don't even sell enough to be listed above "Other" on the Steam Hardware Survey.
    so they sell out but dont sell where is that what you are saying based on Steam Hardware Survey?
    Yup, that's exactly what everyone here is saying. 
    ok fair enough Nividia's so called 'sell out' of these devices was all part of marketing scam 101 as suggested so 12 units?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,941
    It's not really a scam any more than any other advertising. It's misleading, but not an outright lie.

    The "12 units" is a metaphor for a small or fairly insignificant number compared to the rest of the ecosystem. It's a calculated number where they know the units will sell out so they can say "it sold out, it's so successful". It is often they calculate the entire number they expect to sell, divide that up by a few and then sell out repeated batches. Then they can say, "this has sold out 3 times in a row now". Some people eat that up.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Torval said:
    It's not really a scam any more than any other advertising. It's misleading, but not an outright lie.

    The "12 units" is a metaphor for a small or fairly insignificant number compared to the rest of the ecosystem. It's a calculated number where they know the units will sell out so they can say "it sold out, it's so successful". It is often they calculate the entire number they expect to sell, divide that up by a few and then sell out repeated batches. Then they can say, "this has sold out 3 times in a row now". Some people eat that up.
    does everyone do this or just some and do they tend to do it back to back to back even though they have plenty of marketing dollars.

    break this down for me on how this works exactly

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,344
    Torval said:
    It's not really a scam any more than any other advertising. It's misleading, but not an outright lie.

    The "12 units" is a metaphor for a small or fairly insignificant number compared to the rest of the ecosystem. It's a calculated number where they know the units will sell out so they can say "it sold out, it's so successful". It is often they calculate the entire number they expect to sell, divide that up by a few and then sell out repeated batches. Then they can say, "this has sold out 3 times in a row now". Some people eat that up.
    Agreed.  It is great for marketing because people think if "It sells out repeatedly! It must be popular therefore I must buy it." There are plenty of consumers like that. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,941
    SEANMCAD said:
    Torval said:
    It's not really a scam any more than any other advertising. It's misleading, but not an outright lie.

    The "12 units" is a metaphor for a small or fairly insignificant number compared to the rest of the ecosystem. It's a calculated number where they know the units will sell out so they can say "it sold out, it's so successful". It is often they calculate the entire number they expect to sell, divide that up by a few and then sell out repeated batches. Then they can say, "this has sold out 3 times in a row now". Some people eat that up.
    does everyone do this or just some and do they tend to do it back to back to back even though they have plenty of marketing dollars.

    break this down for me on how this works exactly
    It's only people that advertise and market that do this. I broke it down in the second paragraph.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Quizzical said:
    AMD's financial troubles are due to Bulldozer being a disaster and then its successors not being competitive.  If Zen is great, AMD will be fine, no matter how bad Polaris is.  And if Zen is a Bulldozer-scale disaster, AMD will be headed for bankruptcy even if Polaris is massively better than than Pascal in every way you can think of and most of the ones you can't.

    Nvidia having a clear advantage over AMD in discrete GPUs is a recent phenomenon, really starting with Maxwell about a year and a half ago in desktops, and a little before that in laptops.  We're not that far removed from AMD being clearly ahead for a few years, starting at least by the launch of Cypress in 2009 if not RV770 in 2008, and not ending until Kepler arrived in 2012.  Every generation is a new chance to compete, and both Nvidia and AMD/ATI have won quite a few over the years.
    True, but 3DFX and Matrox were leaders once upon a time and they went from great to none exitent in just a few years (particularly 3DFX) so AMD needs Zen to do well, anything can happen otherwise. Well doesn't mean it have to be a huge hit but at least acceptable sales numbers and not a disaster of Jar-Jarian properties like Bulldozer. Not that AMD is the only company that had disasters, the Fermi cards didn't do that great for Nvidia either (the 400 series).

    And we do need at least 2 manufacturers of gaming GFX cards, if either would go down we gamers would be the one paying for that with increased prices and worse performance for future cards.

    Of course, it is pretty unlikely but I would have said the same about 3DFX until Nvidia bought them and killed them off... It is still worst scenario, if AMD went down (or Nvidia for that matter) it is pretty likely that someone like Samsung would buy them out.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,344
    As long as Game consoles are being made it seems AMD will always have a job. I personally buy whatever card I like best at the time I am buying a card. I have an R9 380 now and will upgrade it in a few months but for now it is fine for my needs. Whether I buy from the Green camp or the Red camp next time depends on what I like best at the price point I feel like spending. Nor which side of the line it falls on. I am agnostic to the maker. I just want the best card for my money.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Torval said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Torval said:
    It's not really a scam any more than any other advertising. It's misleading, but not an outright lie.

    The "12 units" is a metaphor for a small or fairly insignificant number compared to the rest of the ecosystem. It's a calculated number where they know the units will sell out so they can say "it sold out, it's so successful". It is often they calculate the entire number they expect to sell, divide that up by a few and then sell out repeated batches. Then they can say, "this has sold out 3 times in a row now". Some people eat that up.
    does everyone do this or just some and do they tend to do it back to back to back even though they have plenty of marketing dollars.

    break this down for me on how this works exactly
    It's only people that advertise and market that do this. I broke it down in the second paragraph.
    no your second paragraph doesnt break it down in the area I am asking for.

    I am saying 'explain to me the corporate approach to this: do all companies do this (yes of course the ones that are marketing a product!) or some of them or it depends. if it depends what does it depend on. 

    I wasnt asking for basically what would be the 'urban dictionary' of the phrase '12 units'

    sorry i wasnt clear

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,420
    SEANMCAD said:
    Torval said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Torval said:
    It's not really a scam any more than any other advertising. It's misleading, but not an outright lie.

    The "12 units" is a metaphor for a small or fairly insignificant number compared to the rest of the ecosystem. It's a calculated number where they know the units will sell out so they can say "it sold out, it's so successful". It is often they calculate the entire number they expect to sell, divide that up by a few and then sell out repeated batches. Then they can say, "this has sold out 3 times in a row now". Some people eat that up.
    does everyone do this or just some and do they tend to do it back to back to back even though they have plenty of marketing dollars.

    break this down for me on how this works exactly
    It's only people that advertise and market that do this. I broke it down in the second paragraph.
    no your second paragraph doesnt break it down in the area I am asking for.

    I am saying 'explain to me the corporate approach to this: do all companies do this (yes of course the ones that are marketing a product!) or some of them or it depends. if it depends what does it depend on. 

    I wasnt asking for basically what would be the 'urban dictionary' of the phrase '12 units'

    sorry i wasnt clear
    Yes and no.

    There are always exceptions, so if you want to be literal not all companies do it. But it's a normal practice in the industry.
     
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Vrika said:

    Yes and no.

    There are always exceptions, so if you want to be literal not all companies do it. But it's a normal practice in the industry.
    how do you come to this conclusion?
     I am not saying your wrong but I am speaking out of ignorance on this specific tactic and how wide spread many here seem to suggest that it is so I am curious how we came this conclusion (as in can you give me many examples)

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,420
    SEANMCAD said:
    Vrika said:

    Yes and no.

    There are always exceptions, so if you want to be literal not all companies do it. But it's a normal practice in the industry.
    how do you come to this conclusion?
     I am not saying your wrong but I am speaking out of ignorance on this specific tactic and how wide spread many here seem to suggest that it is so I am curious how we came this conclusion (as in can you give me many examples)
    Sony does Playstation VR pre-orders in waves to sell them out multiple times:

    http://www.tweaktown.com/news/51199/sony-reveals-playstation-vr-pre-order-wave-timeline/index.html

    Maybe someone has patience to google for more examples and explanations, but I don't have right now.
     
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited March 2016
    Vrika said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Vrika said:

    Yes and no.

    There are always exceptions, so if you want to be literal not all companies do it. But it's a normal practice in the industry.
    how do you come to this conclusion?
     I am not saying your wrong but I am speaking out of ignorance on this specific tactic and how wide spread many here seem to suggest that it is so I am curious how we came this conclusion (as in can you give me many examples)
    Sony does Playstation VR pre-orders in waves to sell them out multiple times:

    http://www.tweaktown.com/news/51199/sony-reveals-playstation-vr-pre-order-wave-timeline/index.html

    Maybe someone has patience to google for more examples and explanations, but I don't have right now.
    yeah that article if you read it actually does your position harm..

    1. it says 'Rather than opening up pre-orders all at once like its competitors' which implies what they are doing is NOT common place which the opposite of my understanding from you guys.

    2. nothing in the article suggests they are doing this for marketing ploys at all. In fact it appears they are doing it for no other reason then to make for a more reliable supply chain. 

    3. not sure using one of Sony most successful products as your only example is helping your position much.

    So super fail on that one!

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,420
    SEANMCAD said:
    Vrika said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Vrika said:

    Yes and no.

    There are always exceptions, so if you want to be literal not all companies do it. But it's a normal practice in the industry.
    how do you come to this conclusion?
     I am not saying your wrong but I am speaking out of ignorance on this specific tactic and how wide spread many here seem to suggest that it is so I am curious how we came this conclusion (as in can you give me many examples)
    Sony does Playstation VR pre-orders in waves to sell them out multiple times:

    http://www.tweaktown.com/news/51199/sony-reveals-playstation-vr-pre-order-wave-timeline/index.html

    Maybe someone has patience to google for more examples and explanations, but I don't have right now.
    yeah that article if you read it actually does your position harm..

    1. it says 'Rather than opening up pre-orders all at once like its competitors' which implies what they are doing is NOT common place which the opposite of my understanding from you guys.

    2. nothing in the article suggests they are doing this for marketing ploys at all. In fact it appears they are doing it for no other reason then to make for a more reliable supply chain. 

    3. not sure using one of Sony most successful products as your only example is helping your position much.

    So super fail on that one!
    I think my failure was trying to explain something to you.
     
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited March 2016
    Vrika said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Vrika said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Vrika said:

    Yes and no.

    There are always exceptions, so if you want to be literal not all companies do it. But it's a normal practice in the industry.
    how do you come to this conclusion?
     I am not saying your wrong but I am speaking out of ignorance on this specific tactic and how wide spread many here seem to suggest that it is so I am curious how we came this conclusion (as in can you give me many examples)
    Sony does Playstation VR pre-orders in waves to sell them out multiple times:

    http://www.tweaktown.com/news/51199/sony-reveals-playstation-vr-pre-order-wave-timeline/index.html

    Maybe someone has patience to google for more examples and explanations, but I don't have right now.
    yeah that article if you read it actually does your position harm..

    1. it says 'Rather than opening up pre-orders all at once like its competitors' which implies what they are doing is NOT common place which the opposite of my understanding from you guys.

    2. nothing in the article suggests they are doing this for marketing ploys at all. In fact it appears they are doing it for no other reason then to make for a more reliable supply chain. 

    3. not sure using one of Sony most successful products as your only example is helping your position much.

    So super fail on that one!
    I think my failure was trying to explain something to you.
    I think my points are clear, concise, to the point and well thought out but you have no desire to address them? I think I am going with the position for now that this whole 'its common place to sell out on forced limited supply' is actually a false meme not based on reality at all, which now that I think on it is a position I should have taken a long time ago

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

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