Much confusion.

Graveblade

I am so confused. Some people seem to practically 'hate' this game and some people absolutely love it. Can someone please help with a proper pros/cons rundown of this game without some kind of stupid mmorpg bias or playstyle bias, or atleast if you have a bias acknowledge it as opinion rather than fact.

Panther2103

The pros and cons differ from person to person. You have to enjoy a relatively sandbox type of game to play this. Some people don't. It's Korean, and has a Korean art style which completely turns some people off, but for others it's beautiful. It has a grindy questing system, but you don't have to ever touch a quest if you didn't really want to get anything from them (although I recommend doing some of them to get inventory expansions and skill points). You don't have much direction in the game either, which can completely turn you off for it as well if you don't like that. I spent my first day playing almost entirely fishing and gathering wood because it was fun, we were riding around on a raft out in the water it was neat. Another pro or con is after 45 there is open pvp, which some hate and some love as well. You can spend your entire time just crafting, gathering, doing trade runs, questing or if you really feel like it you can just grind mobs. It's pretty open. 

simsalabim77

B2P with mostly cosmetic/convenience cash shop
Gender locked classes
Awesome graphics 
Almost endless progression
Crafting/gathering/trading/area management with good depth
Horse/pet breeding 
Activities limited by energy
Feels like an RPG
Questing not required 
Leveling requires a lot of mob grinding
Extremely grindy
Traditional endgame non-existent 
OWPVP and all that comes with it is a thing
Random gear upgrade system
No play trading
Very little PVE content
Gear and level plays a huge role in PVP
Being competitive in PVP requires enormous amounts of PVE
XP loss upon death


It's worth $30 for sure. I like nearly everything about the game minus endgame. It's not a game I'll be playing for more than a couple months because I personally detest PVE'ing my ass off so I can compete in PVP. 

derfritz

Graveblade said:

I am so confused. Some people seem to practically 'hate' this game and some people absolutely love it. Can someone please help with a proper pros/cons rundown of this game without some kind of stupid mmorpg bias or playstyle bias, or atleast if you have a bias acknowledge it as opinion rather than fact.

You really shoudn't base your opinion on a gaming forum. Half of the people hating haven't played it and some of the complains are downright exaggeration. This always happens in forums so it's really nothing new.

Game in itself is not perfect but certain aspects are still levels ahead many mmo's I've ever played. I have a review, it's a lengthy read but I do mention what makes this game special and what might be turn offs for some.

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/447040/easily-one-of-the-best-mmos-ive-played-since-my-first-mmo-short-review/p1

This website also has done certain articles about the game which are quite a good read and I'm guessing we'll be seeing a review sooner or later so I'll keep a close look at it as their review tend to be quite accurate.

manolodazona

forums are always filled with hate, the fact that you see so many people defending it just shows that this is by far better than most of the mmo's out... and I understand why, mmos have been quite meh so seeing a game that actually improves so much over mmo's and brings that old addiction back is normal to create this necessity to defend it which games nowadays hardly ever do

kszer0

I think a huge part of the divide comes from people playing from moment to moment and people looking to the long term. If you listen to the typical Black Desert fan they'll call these people Trolls, but people get ridiculously protective of the MMO they are playing for whatever reason. Black Desert has a lot of neat systems in place, and I'm enjoying the game somewhat but in the crusade to eliminate "endgame" they gave us very little reason to do anything.

You can fish, and use the fish to cook or sell on the auction house... then what? This game has some of the most unsatisfying progression I have ever seen in an MMO. So unless you want to do something just for the sake of doing something you probably won't enjoy this game. Most fans will claim you just don't "get it", but most of these people don't get it because they are caught up in that initial release honeymoon. I've played games far too long to get blinded by the newness of it all. It's all just too shallow. That doesn't mean it can't be fixed, but from what I see in Korea it's not looking good.

I'm sure you have people who truly enjoy the basic systems they have in place. I have a friend who still plays Archeage simple for the farming and trading. She has several alts and dozens of farms and houses and she just plants her crops, delivers them for gold, and builds up her empire. It's not the most in depth system, but she enjoys it enough to continue playing after 2 years.

So my advice to you. If you enjoy lots of casual side activities in your MMOs, you'll probably get a month or two of fun out of BDO but unless you really enjoy the systems set in place you'll probably be turned away by the shallowness of it all pretty quickly.

On the side of the PvE the combat is a lot of fun, but the level up grind can be pretty tedious at times and unless you are certain classes you probably won't enjoy it. Endgame is mostly just more grind and summoning boss scrolls for items to upgrade some rather drab looking gear.

PvP is a gank fest and heavily gear dependent, but luckily gear is not hard to come by so once you catch up it mostly comes down to skill, but the classes are pretty imbalanced at the moment and there is a noticeable divide between top tier classes and trash. Don't bother complaining about it however, because you'll probably just get a "get gud" comment from the the majority of the community.

Looking toward the future we have an update coming in the next few weeks, according the Daum, that expands world size and adds a new class. A few months later we get another big update that adds a huge landmass to the game with its own gameplay mechanics (Valencia Desert), an open world dungeon, a few worlds bosses, and another new class. Also each class is getting a secondary weapon at some point to make up for their weaknesses. After that we there are talks of Elven and Dwarven homelands in the next Korean expansion, they also say it's going to be "maritime focused".

That's about it. Not sure if this is the game for you. Best thing to do is find a 7 day trial and find for yourself. I think it comes down to expectations. If you're cool playing casually, and love a ton of little side activities to do, and don't think about it too much then I'm sure you'll get enough enjoyment to justify the $30. If you want are looking for deep progression and a game that has a long term plan in place to keep you hooked, this game is probably not for you. If you enjoy some intense grinding for levels and minuscule stat upgrades, this game has no level cap and tons of ways to boost your character that is both time consuming and pretty minor once you get past the major gear hurdles. If you are looking for game that has awesome looking armor and weapons to find while exploring this is definitely not for you. You can have your final set of gear pretty early on. Your current endgame weapon can be purchased from an NPC for 90k silver (which isn't a lot) and it doesn't look much different from your starter weapon. It's the upgrade process that is a handful.

I think that's about it.

Nanfoodle

It's the small things. Like the crafting. Do you do it to help friends and guildies or make money or a bit of both. If you do it just to make money BD will do just fine and your one happy gamer. Without being able to trade with friends and guildies it takes away most of the reason I craft. But what BD dose it dose it well. It's quality and worth a try. I'm waiting 2 to 6 months as I'm am sure they will be dropping B2P. 

kszer0

- Combat is fast and fun (Valkyrie, Zerker and Ranger mostly so far), but requires practice to master, so I guess that's why some people disliked it. It's not a "press your hotkey when the cooldown is over" type of game.

This is what I'm talking about. People can't just not enjoy the combat. It's because they're not good enough to get the fast paced combat. You seriously can't go a post without trying to insult people who don't like the game.

and I like the combat, I just don't get this community. Play the victim, all the while they're the toxic ones.

Sovrath

simsalabim77 said:

Very little PVE content

hmmm, depends on what you are considering pve content. 

Crafting, hiring workers, making trade runs, fishing, killing mobs (and in a group is the best way) Summoned Bosses, horse and pet breeding ...

This is all pve content. And then the open world, larger, dungeons will be coming our way.

kszer0

Sovrath said:

simsalabim77 said:

Very little PVE content

hmmm, depends on what you are considering pve content. 

Crafting, hiring workers, making trade runs, fishing, killing mobs (and in a group is the best way) Summoned Bosses, horse and pet breeding ...

This is all pve content. And then the open world, larger, dungeons will be coming our way.

I'm not going to get into a discussion over the use of language but that isn't PvE, PvE is a player versus a computer controlled enemy. Yes there is other content in the game that doesn't revolve around PvP, but there isn't much PvE content outside of grinding.

Sovrath

kszer0 said:

Sovrath said:

simsalabim77 said:

Very little PVE content

hmmm, depends on what you are considering pve content. 

Crafting, hiring workers, making trade runs, fishing, killing mobs (and in a group is the best way) Summoned Bosses, horse and pet breeding ...

This is all pve content. And then the open world, larger, dungeons will be coming our way.

I'm not going to get into a discussion over the use of language but that isn't PvE, PvE is a player versus a computer controlled enemy. Yes there is other content in the game that doesn't revolve around PvP, but there isn't much PvE content outside of grinding.

Well in that case you have fighting regular mobs and fighting summoned boses.

The the open world dungeons will be added. I also think there are some world bosses in the game as well.

This is no different than, say, Lineage 2 or I bet the first Lineage with the exception that, at least in Lineage 2, there were some raids though most of them required a lot of players and were rarely done.

kszer0

Sovrath said:

kszer0 said:

Sovrath said:

simsalabim77 said:

Very little PVE content

hmmm, depends on what you are considering pve content. 

Crafting, hiring workers, making trade runs, fishing, killing mobs (and in a group is the best way) Summoned Bosses, horse and pet breeding ...

This is all pve content. And then the open world, larger, dungeons will be coming our way.

I'm not going to get into a discussion over the use of language but that isn't PvE, PvE is a player versus a computer controlled enemy. Yes there is other content in the game that doesn't revolve around PvP, but there isn't much PvE content outside of grinding.

Well in that case you have fighting regular mobs and fighting summoned boses.

The the open world dungeons will be added. I also think there are some world bosses in the game as well.

This is no different than, say, Lineage 2 or I bet the first Lineage with the exception that, at least in Lineage 2, there were some raids though most of them required a lot of players and were rarely done.

We're talking about now, and right now PvE content is lacking. You grind for black stones and some jewelry, that's about it. We get some boss gear in the next patch, but even then we don't get a major PvE update until Valencia. The fact is this game is not for people who like searching out rare mobs for unique loot. Don't try and make it seem like this game is something it's not. There's no point.

cantankerousmage

I would try it if they offered a free trial.  Then I could decide whether or not I wanted to pay for it or not.  Already been burned by pay-up front games that were supposed to be good and turned out to be lackluster, even terrible.

Bad.dog

kszer0 said:

Sovrath said:

kszer0 said:

Sovrath said:

simsalabim77 said:

Very little PVE content

hmmm, depends on what you are considering pve content. 

Crafting, hiring workers, making trade runs, fishing, killing mobs (and in a group is the best way) Summoned Bosses, horse and pet breeding ...

This is all pve content. And then the open world, larger, dungeons will be coming our way.

I'm not going to get into a discussion over the use of language but that isn't PvE, PvE is a player versus a computer controlled enemy. Yes there is other content in the game that doesn't revolve around PvP, but there isn't much PvE content outside of grinding.

Well in that case you have fighting regular mobs and fighting summoned boses.

The the open world dungeons will be added. I also think there are some world bosses in the game as well.

This is no different than, say, Lineage 2 or I bet the first Lineage with the exception that, at least in Lineage 2, there were some raids though most of them required a lot of players and were rarely done.

We're talking about now, and right now PvE content is lacking. You grind for black stones and some jewelry, that's about it. We get some boss gear in the next patch, but even then we don't get a major PvE update until Valencia. The fact is this game is not for people who like searching out rare mobs for unique loot. Don't try and make it seem like this game is something it's not. There's no point.

Simon Say's there is no PVE content because nobody will follow him through a dungeon and do as he tells them ....Simon say's " Jump on one foot and then sit down "

kszer0

cantankerousmage said:

I would try it if they offered a free trial.  Then I could decide whether or not I wanted to pay for it or not.  Already been burned by pay-up front games that were supposed to be good and turned out to be lackluster, even terrible.

Yeah, I think what people fail to see is b2p format, mixed with high priced cash shop essentials equals a company not super confident in the longevity of their game. Think of it like this. If the game had a subscription that was $15/month, and you played for 3 months before burning out on the game you paid $45. Now consider this game. You paid $30 for the base game, $30 for 3 pets, $30 for a costume. You'd have to play 6 months to get the same value out of that. That's fine if you know for sure this game is something you plan on playing for a while, but that's impossible to say at the start. You can put off paying for these things, but the longer you wait the less value you get out of these purchases. I never liked the b2p format mixed with a cash shop. I much prefer a f2p game with premium sub and cash, or a sub based game. This format seems to be heavy on the upfront costs of the game.

kszer0

Bad.dog said:

kszer0 said:

Sovrath said:

kszer0 said:

Sovrath said:

simsalabim77 said:

Very little PVE content

hmmm, depends on what you are considering pve content. 

Crafting, hiring workers, making trade runs, fishing, killing mobs (and in a group is the best way) Summoned Bosses, horse and pet breeding ...

This is all pve content. And then the open world, larger, dungeons will be coming our way.

I'm not going to get into a discussion over the use of language but that isn't PvE, PvE is a player versus a computer controlled enemy. Yes there is other content in the game that doesn't revolve around PvP, but there isn't much PvE content outside of grinding.

Well in that case you have fighting regular mobs and fighting summoned boses.

The the open world dungeons will be added. I also think there are some world bosses in the game as well.

This is no different than, say, Lineage 2 or I bet the first Lineage with the exception that, at least in Lineage 2, there were some raids though most of them required a lot of players and were rarely done.

We're talking about now, and right now PvE content is lacking. You grind for black stones and some jewelry, that's about it. We get some boss gear in the next patch, but even then we don't get a major PvE update until Valencia. The fact is this game is not for people who like searching out rare mobs for unique loot. Don't try and make it seem like this game is something it's not. There's no point.

Simon Say's there is no PVE content because nobody will follow him through a dungeon and do as he tells them ....Simon say's " Jump on one foot and then sit down "

You just keep proving my point about the toxic community. I never said that. You can have PvE content without instanced dungeons. There is just not much PvE content unless you want to grind for the sake of grinding levels past 50. Almost all your endgame gear can be purchased through NPCs, or found prior to 50. The few pieces of jewelry that are difficult to obtain just require a few days farming the same mobs. The rest is just grinding for black stones.

Wizardry

Basically they took some good ideas on paper and ruined them with crappy implementation.

Example sure Fishing is great idea but not when you automate like an afk fish botter.

The idea of having workers is a nice idea but not when it is automated via some cheap node instead of actually having/seeing viable npc workers that you might have hired because of some favor or ran into in the local bar ,whatever,they just did it about as lazy and cheap as they could.

You have some demon or whatever that you can spawn out of nowhere that gives quests,again a really dumb idea,questing is already bad enough if linear and the only game play you have but cheaping it like this is just bad.On top of that you might get some call to kill some Boss that  says you need a group but everyone solos them and you also spawn them out of thin air so again crappy implementation.

Instead of finding some nice loot or crafting whatever,you simply do the old fashion Asian way of spending currency to upgrade gear/weapon to the typical +1 +2 ....to+15.This again is a VERY cheap idea to itemize gear.

Back to the lame questing,you can simply target your quest ,press the letter T and it auto takes you there,yep you don't even need to think or play,go have a sandwich.Hand holding at it's finest.

game play?Well you can spend your entire time like most i saw trying to goof around with items to make virtual currency profits "boring ..zzzz" or pvp or as per typical in these  games linear questing,well and/or afk fish bot.

HighMarshal

It has lots of PvE content. just no raids or dungeons at the moment.
PvE = Anything that does not pit you against another player in a contest or combat.

cantankerousmage

Wizardry said:

Basically they took some good ideas on paper and ruined them with crappy implementation.

Example sure Fishing is great idea but not when you automate like an afk fish botter.

The idea of having workers is a nice idea but not when it is automated via some cheap node instead of actually having/seeing viable npc workers that you might have hired because of some favor or ran into in the local bar ,whatever,they just did it about as lazy and cheap as they could.

You have some demon or whatever that you can spawn out of nowhere that gives quests,again a really dumb idea,questing is already bad enough if linear and the only game play you have but cheaping it like this is just bad.On top of that you might get some call to kill some Boss that  says you need a group but everyone solos them and you also spawn them out of thin air so again crappy implementation.

Instead of finding some nice loot or crafting whatever,you simply do the old fashion Asian way of spending currency to upgrade gear/weapon to the typical +1 +2 ....to+15.This again is a VERY cheap idea to itemize gear.

Back to the lame questing,you can simply target your quest ,press the letter T and it auto takes you there,yep you don't even need to think or play,go have a sandwich.Hand holding at it's finest.

game play?Well you can spend your entire time like most i saw trying to goof around with items to make virtual currency profits "boring ..zzzz" or pvp or as per typical in these  games linear questing,well and/or afk fish bot.

Thanks, I figured it would probably be as underwhelming as Arche Age.  Decent ideas with horrible implementation is what we usually get.

kszer0

HighMarshal said:

It has lots of PvE content. just no raids or dungeons at the moment.
PvE = Anything that does not pit you against another player in a contest or combat.

If you want to water down content to number of mobs on the world map for you to kill, every game has tons of PvE content. 

simsalabim77

Sovrath said:

simsalabim77 said:

Very little PVE content

hmmm, depends on what you are considering pve content. 

Crafting, hiring workers, making trade runs, fishing, killing mobs (and in a group is the best way) Summoned Bosses, horse and pet breeding ...

This is all pve content. And then the open world, larger, dungeons will be coming our way.

I meant players fighting mobs, bosses, dungeons, raids, etc. In BDO, you either kill mobs or summoned bosses. There are no dungeons, open world or instanced, to explore. There isn't anything that resembles organized PVE. I'm sure some people are happy about that, but for me, I won't be entertained very long by killing piss easy mobs or summoning the same handful of bosses.

Open world dungeons would be awesome and it seems like a huge lost opportunity for this game. FFXIV had a few later on in the first iteration of the game, and it was fun to explore a proper dungeon. Of course in BDO, I imagine they'd be huge PVP catalysts, and that's equally awesome. 

Also, there are zero PVP objectives to fight over besides grinding camps, which feels equally silly. The game needs way more objectives, IMO.

Deivos

I'm thrown off by the "spending currency to upgrade gear" part since the gems for upgrading gear is obtainable solely through play of the game at present. Do they mean "buy from the in-game auction house from other players" as spending currency?

Sourajit

Nanfoodle said:

It's the small things. Like the crafting. Do you do it to help friends and guildies or make money or a bit of both. If you do it just to make money BD will do just fine and your one happy gamer. Without being able to trade with friends and guildies it takes away most of the reason I craft. But what BD dose it dose it well. It's quality and worth a try. I'm waiting 2 to 6 months as I'm am sure they will be dropping B2P. 

Dropping the B2P will be a bad idea. It's lag-less as of now.

carvalho677

cantankerousmage said:

Wizardry said:

Basically they took some good ideas on paper and ruined them with crappy implementation.

Example sure Fishing is great idea but not when you automate like an afk fish botter.

The idea of having workers is a nice idea but not when it is automated via some cheap node instead of actually having/seeing viable npc workers that you might have hired because of some favor or ran into in the local bar ,whatever,they just did it about as lazy and cheap as they could.

You have some demon or whatever that you can spawn out of nowhere that gives quests,again a really dumb idea,questing is already bad enough if linear and the only game play you have but cheaping it like this is just bad.On top of that you might get some call to kill some Boss that  says you need a group but everyone solos them and you also spawn them out of thin air so again crappy implementation.

Instead of finding some nice loot or crafting whatever,you simply do the old fashion Asian way of spending currency to upgrade gear/weapon to the typical +1 +2 ....to+15.This again is a VERY cheap idea to itemize gear.

Back to the lame questing,you can simply target your quest ,press the letter T and it auto takes you there,yep you don't even need to think or play,go have a sandwich.Hand holding at it's finest.

game play?Well you can spend your entire time like most i saw trying to goof around with items to make virtual currency profits "boring ..zzzz" or pvp or as per typical in these  games linear questing,well and/or afk fish bot.

Thanks, I figured it would probably be as underwhelming as Arche Age.  Decent ideas with horrible implementation is what we usually get.

he's been dedicating his life on hating the game so not sure if he's the most accurate person to base your opinion on

cantankerousmage

Well, how do I know if I can trust you either, lol?  That's okay though, I won't pay up front to try it regardless.

manolodazona

cantankerousmage said:

Wizardry said:

Basically they took some good ideas on paper and ruined them with crappy implementation.

Example sure Fishing is great idea but not when you automate like an afk fish botter.

The idea of having workers is a nice idea but not when it is automated via some cheap node instead of actually having/seeing viable npc workers that you might have hired because of some favor or ran into in the local bar ,whatever,they just did it about as lazy and cheap as they could.

You have some demon or whatever that you can spawn out of nowhere that gives quests,again a really dumb idea,questing is already bad enough if linear and the only game play you have but cheaping it like this is just bad.On top of that you might get some call to kill some Boss that  says you need a group but everyone solos them and you also spawn them out of thin air so again crappy implementation.

Instead of finding some nice loot or crafting whatever,you simply do the old fashion Asian way of spending currency to upgrade gear/weapon to the typical +1 +2 ....to+15.This again is a VERY cheap idea to itemize gear.

Back to the lame questing,you can simply target your quest ,press the letter T and it auto takes you there,yep you don't even need to think or play,go have a sandwich.Hand holding at it's finest.

game play?Well you can spend your entire time like most i saw trying to goof around with items to make virtual currency profits "boring ..zzzz" or pvp or as per typical in these  games linear questing,well and/or afk fish bot.

Thanks, I figured it would probably be as underwhelming as Arche Age.  Decent ideas with horrible implementation is what we usually get.

this game does some ideas incredibly well, some need tweeking but as of now it's one of only MMO that I can actually see survive in the future