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I found this to actually be an intelligent discussion.

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,947
    Kefo said:

    He actually doesn't make a joke at 53:00 its the man in the money hat who does,
    Money guy says : "Seriously, we have to wear pants ?!" at 52:55

    and the guy on the left answers : "Optional." at 52:57

    Some people would call this a joke ;-)


    @Kefo
    >>>>  and is now worried his job is at stake   >>>

    Ahh, the famous "I am sure he has been fired after that ..." argument. Which is based on what proof ?
    For someone fearing for his job he is smiling and making jokes quite a bit after that "serious incident" at 52:10
    He seems to be less worried than you are.


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:

    He actually doesn't make a joke at 53:00 its the man in the money hat who does,
    Money guy says : "Seriously, we have to wear pants ?!" at 52:55

    and the guy on the left answers : "Optional." at 52:57

    Some people would call this a joke ;-)


    @Kefo
    >>>>  and is now worried his job is at stake   >>>

    Ahh, the famous "I am sure he has been fired after that ..." argument. Which is based on what proof ?
    For someone fearing for his job he is smiling and making jokes quite a bit after that "serious incident" at 52:10
    He seems to be less worried than you are.


    Have fun

    Notice how no one laughs though when he says "optional", so not really a joke.


    I never said he was fired, I said worried his job is at stake. I couldn't prove it anyway but until we see him again in another video then you can't prove he wasn't fired.
  • AlumicardAlumicard Member UncommonPosts: 388
    Please tell me that video was a fake.

    You have some guy lurking, attracting attention by being the only one that moves around in the background wearing gold pants and a hat that has golden font saying "MONEY" while you do the show in front with all the PR?
    I mean... come on.. seriously... at least try to hide it better. Do they really think that their fans are that dumb to not get the message? Or do they think that their fans want that kind of thing, paying gold for a big show about some PR talking points? They must have known before who sits at the desk and who moves in the background  so I assume that everyone is doing what they are supposed to do and wearing the kind of things that the CEO agreed to. That leaves us in my opinion with two choices: ither they think their fanboys are too stupid to see what is going on or they saw that people only need some big buzzwords to send them cash.
  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    edited March 2016
    Alumicard said:
    Please tell me that video was a fake.

    You have some guy lurking, attracting attention by being the only one that moves around in the background wearing gold pants and a hat that has golden font saying "MONEY" while you do the show in front with all the PR?
    I mean... come on.. seriously... at least try to hide it better. Do they really think that their fans are that dumb to not get the message? Or do they think that their fans want that kind of thing, paying gold for a big show about some PR talking points? They must have known before who sits at the desk and who moves in the background  so I assume that everyone is doing what they are supposed to do and wearing the kind of things that the CEO agreed to. That leaves us in my opinion with two choices: ither they think their fanboys are too stupid to see what is going on or they saw that people only need some big buzzwords to send them cash.
    Yeah I found that kinda unprofessional looking myself, not to mention kinda gay looking! But I'm not going all conspiracy theory about it. It is what it is: a Millennial trying to bring the cool factor up a few notches in a room full of fat grey hairs. Look at it like he's the expensive mural hanging in the office to inspire creative people into doing what they are being paid to do.

    BTW before someone goes all SJW up in here I am both fat (the 2 guys on the end fat, not the two in the middle :p ) and grey haired so you can keep that to yourself thank you.

    EDIT: I do agree with others that their were some awkward looks when the model thing is mentioned. Like "yeah dude it was mentioned internally but not meant for public knowledge" kinda looks.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Alumicard said:
    Please tell me that video was a fake.

    You have some guy lurking, attracting attention by being the only one that moves around in the background wearing gold pants and a hat that has golden font saying "MONEY" while you do the show in front with all the PR?
    I mean... come on.. seriously... at least try to hide it better. Do they really think that their fans are that dumb to not get the message? Or do they think that their fans want that kind of thing, paying gold for a big show about some PR talking points? They must have known before who sits at the desk and who moves in the background  so I assume that everyone is doing what they are supposed to do and wearing the kind of things that the CEO agreed to. That leaves us in my opinion with two choices: ither they think their fanboys are too stupid to see what is going on or they saw that people only need some big buzzwords to send them cash.
    What message ?

    The way some people on these boards extrapolate assumptions out of the blue by using every crumb of optical stimulus, converting it on the fly in conspiracy theories is just mind-boggling.

    This goes far beyond of perceiving things or expressing opinions with a negative predisposition. It feels like people here are affected on a personal level about how SC & SQ 42 are being developed. As if their well being depends on it.

    I too have negative opinions about games currently in development. But, going in their forums and type stuff like this ? It would feel weird and.. unhealthy.


  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Ok I admit saying the guy was angry wasn't a good read.  But you have to admit the response was either irrational or irritated at the idea.  They explain the skeletons are new so the models have to be redone to fit the new skeletons "concepts".  Which is exactly what David had a problem with.  Continually redoing concepts instead of fixing and polishing finished models.  Which proves that article isn't just bologna because the video clearly shows that the problems are still there and not going away.  Which makes me wonder if they are trying to finish a game or just keep draining money and redoing models because after years of working on said models they still aren't finished.  This should not be excused by anyone.  How many years has it been and they still don't have a working skeleton?  Yea there is really no excuse for this at all.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    So odly enough...  For some reason the latest patch is showing fixes to character models that would normally be called polishing.  Maybe they scrapped the idea of doing a complete rework.  Ulike the guy in the video said and they elaborated on briefly.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,947
    filmoret said:
    So odly enough...  For some reason the latest patch is showing fixes to character models that would normally be called polishing.  Maybe they scrapped the idea of doing a complete rework.  Ulike the guy in the video said and they elaborated on briefly.
    Or your definition of "rework" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "rework".


    Have fun
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    So odly enough...  For some reason the latest patch is showing fixes to character models that would normally be called polishing.  Maybe they scrapped the idea of doing a complete rework.  Ulike the guy in the video said and they elaborated on briefly.
    Or your definition of "rework" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "rework".


    Have fun
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,947
    edited April 2016
    filmoret said:
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Or your definition of "redone" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "redone".

    Maybe for CIG "working on something" is not equal to "scrapping something" e.g. optimising/simplifying  the skeleton for performance reasons may not be equal to building a completely "new skeleton".


    Have fun
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Or your definition of "redone" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "redone".

    Maybe for CIG "working on something" is not equal to "scrapping something" e.g. optimising/simplifying  the skeleton for performance reasons may not be equal to building a completely "new skeleton".


    Have fun
    Could go either way....

    Professionals with hands on experience of the project

    vs

    Random Internet commentator's

    Tough call to make!


  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Or your definition of "redone" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "redone".

    Maybe for CIG "working on something" is not equal to "scrapping something" e.g. optimising/simplifying  the skeleton for performance reasons may not be equal to building a completely "new skeleton".


    Have fun

    So I guess in order to have conversations on this board we need to have at hand a yet unpublished CIG dictionary since common English words don't actual mean what they are supposed to in CIG's world.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Or your definition of "redone" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "redone".

    Maybe for CIG "working on something" is not equal to "scrapping something" e.g. optimising/simplifying  the skeleton for performance reasons may not be equal to building a completely "new skeleton".


    Have fun

    So I guess in order to have conversations on this board we need to have at hand a yet unpublished CIG dictionary since common English words don't actual mean what they are supposed to in CIG's world.
    The word "completely" combined with the word "redone".  Unless you have some strange understanding of basic english this can mean only one thing.  Then to further prove that the english definitions are accurate they talk about the process.  Which stated clearly they were using different skeletons.  Man really?  So you will even defend CIG with blind force without even realizing you are actually attacking their own decision.  Please stop this nonsense we are trying to have an intelligent conversation.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Or your definition of "redone" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "redone".

    Maybe for CIG "working on something" is not equal to "scrapping something" e.g. optimising/simplifying  the skeleton for performance reasons may not be equal to building a completely "new skeleton".


    Have fun
    Could go either way....

    Professionals with hands on experience of the project

    vs

    Random Internet commentator's

    Tough call to make!


    Its more like what erilion thinks it means and what the english dictionary says.  Which seem to be different.  Thanks for trolling though and speaking without thinking once again.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    filmoret said:
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Or your definition of "redone" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "redone".

    Maybe for CIG "working on something" is not equal to "scrapping something" e.g. optimising/simplifying  the skeleton for performance reasons may not be equal to building a completely "new skeleton".


    Have fun
    Could go either way....

    Professionals with hands on experience of the project

    vs

    Random Internet commentator's

    Tough call to make!


    Its more like what erilion thinks it means and what the english dictionary says.  Which seem to be different.  Thanks for trolling though and speaking without thinking once again.
    Writing....

    It should have been 'writing without thinking'...and you try to belittle me...
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    filmoret said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    They actually said "all the characters models are being completely redone"  Then went on to explain later about new skeletons.  Which i dont feel like explaining again in detail once again in this thread.  So either they scrapped the idea which is good for them and means they started using common sense,  Or they are still doing the "redone" but in vain are also polishing the existing models.
    Or your definition of "redone" is somewhat different from CIG's definition of "redone".

    Maybe for CIG "working on something" is not equal to "scrapping something" e.g. optimising/simplifying  the skeleton for performance reasons may not be equal to building a completely "new skeleton".


    Have fun

    So I guess in order to have conversations on this board we need to have at hand a yet unpublished CIG dictionary since common English words don't actual mean what they are supposed to in CIG's world.
    The word "completely" combined with the word "redone".  Unless you have some strange understanding of basic english this can mean only one thing.  Then to further prove that the english definitions are accurate they talk about the process.  Which stated clearly they were using different skeletons.  Man really?  So you will even defend CIG with blind force without even realizing you are actually attacking their own decision.  Please stop this nonsense we are trying to have an intelligent conversation.

    I'm not sure if you are yelling at me or agreeing with me lol
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    I found this while searching for some CIG information.  I know its a bad time considering all the SC threads running active right now but it seems to be more intelligent information that reveals why this game is taking longer then it should have.  So this article is from massively and speaks for itself.  Very clearly explains the problems CIG has faced and why it caused Derek Smart to respond the way he did.

    http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,947
    filmoret said:
    Good article. You will find several threads here in this subforum discussing it (about half a year ago and then again this week and last week e.g. the "double precision" thread).


    Have fun 
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Yea I also found something on Cry Engine's forums about what SC is trying to accomplish and how its possible.  Reading the article a bit you can see some mistakes and you expect those of course.  But CIG is trying to build something that has never been done before and if they actually succeed.   For those who don't know it has to do with the engine able to seamlessly move through thousands of KM without load screens.  The problems that arise have been dealt with by making load screens.  But it does appear that if CIG is successful then you won't be able to play the game without a graphics card that can run 64 bit operations and right now they are only running at 23.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,947
    filmoret said:
    Yea I also found something on Cry Engine's forums about what SC is trying to accomplish and how its possible.  Reading the article a bit you can see some mistakes and you expect those of course.  But CIG is trying to build something that has never been done before and if they actually succeed.   For those who don't know it has to do with the engine able to seamlessly move through thousands of KM without load screens.  The problems that arise have been dealt with by making load screens.  But it does appear that if CIG is successful then you won't be able to play the game without a graphics card that can run 64 bit operations and right now they are only running at 23.
    I am always interested in such articles.  Link please.


    Have fun
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    edited April 2016
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    Yea I also found something on Cry Engine's forums about what SC is trying to accomplish and how its possible.  Reading the article a bit you can see some mistakes and you expect those of course.  But CIG is trying to build something that has never been done before and if they actually succeed.   For those who don't know it has to do with the engine able to seamlessly move through thousands of KM without load screens.  The problems that arise have been dealt with by making load screens.  But it does appear that if CIG is successful then you won't be able to play the game without a graphics card that can run 64 bit operations and right now they are only running at 23.
    I am always interested in such articles.  Link please.


    Have fun
    Ah here it is very nice to see people who know what Cryengine is talking about the possibilities.

    https://www.cryengine.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=355&t=128550


    Notice the comments are by moderators and developers of cryengine.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,947
    filmoret said:
    Ah here it is very nice to see people who know what Cryengine is talking about the possibilities.

    https://www.cryengine.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=355&t=128550

    Notice the comments are by moderators and developers of cryengine.
    That thread is quite short. I found two relevant comments w.r.t. Star Citizen:

    Zezeri (Moderator)

    "I don't think anything like this is planned for EaaS at this point. Not for the forseeable future.

    Integrating and maintaining DP in an engine is a big task, wich CIG is doing currently. Now I don't think Crytek will use CIG's impmentation of DP in the SDK branch. The reason for that is that it's a big change in the engine and not really suitable for all types of games. Also it increases memory usage, because most position related coordinates need to be using Doubles instead of Singles (Entity/brush positions, particle positions,...)

    It would still be cool to have higher precision for CE. Some games that do sim-like gameplay or games like Miscreated or Flightsims would benefit from this"

    Lavizh (Staff Lead)

    "Not sure what Cryteks plan is. Would like to have it but as I understand it's CIG that's implementing DP into their own engine branch not Crytek. Crytek has been experimenting with Segmented Worlds instead. Hopefully it will lead to something.

    As Jan mentioned above. It will increase memory requirements. Not always a good thing for a game engine."


    The rest of the comments are about CryTeks "Segmented Worlds" technology (not SC related) and about the possibility that tech successfully developed for Star Citizen would be handed back to CryTek for use in other games (and if that would be for free and/or a part of the licensing deal).


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    Good article. You will find several threads here in this subforum discussing it (about half a year ago and then again this week and last week e.g. the "double precision" thread).


    Have fun 
    It is a good read especially when he details the issues he thinks CIG will run into if they did manage to upgrade the engine like they wanted. 

    The best part is where he agrees with Derek that he was mostly right about what they could and couldn't do. Makes you wonder if the project would have gone differently if CR and DS worked together instead of where we are now.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    filmoret said:
    Good article. You will find several threads here in this subforum discussing it (about half a year ago and then again this week and last week e.g. the "double precision" thread).


    Have fun 
    It is a good read especially when he details the issues he thinks CIG will run into if they did manage to upgrade the engine like they wanted. 

    The best part is where he agrees with Derek that he was mostly right about what they could and couldn't do. Makes you wonder if the project would have gone differently if CR and DS worked together instead of where we are now.
    I get the impression that both are very hard to work with.

    If they were both working together One would most likely have died by a shot in the head while the other to his surprise was unknowingly poisoned.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • goobsnewsgoobsnews Member UncommonPosts: 209
    The most damning thing is that Jennison's letter basically backs up the Escapist Article on how CR runs his company.
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