Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Lack of Endgame is Not a Problem That Needs Solving

1235

Comments

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    ...

    You cannot stop ennui. The best you can do is delaying tactics, slow it down as much as possible.

    ...
    I think MMO developers have stopped trying to keep players for "years". It's simply unrealistic.

    It's far more sensible to get them to spend the maximum amount of money in the first 2 to 3 months that they play. After that, any extra spending they do is a bonus. If they leave the cash shop wouldn't notice...

    The focus is on attracting new players, not keeping existing ones.

    New players are usually in the honeymoon phase and act as salesman for the game. They are starry-eyed and amazed at all the complex content before them.

    Older players are jaded and bored and complain because they have nothing to do and have figured out and beaten all the complexity. They are no longer spending money on bag space, mounts or XP potions...
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,193
    rumtumtum said:
    i like this game at the moment i have 3 toons and none are max level. I like the fact i can log in for an hour do a few quests level up a bit then log out within an hour feeling like ive achieved something.

    You can literally do this with just about any game on the market now.


  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    edited March 2016
    ...

    You cannot stop ennui. The best you can do is delaying tactics, slow it down as much as possible.

    ...
    I think MMO developers have stopped trying to keep players for "years". It's simply unrealistic.

    It's far more sensible to get them to spend the maximum amount of money in the first 2 to 3 months that they play. After that, any extra spending they do is a bonus. If they leave the cash shop wouldn't notice...
    Yep, the cash shop model is changing the genre in any number of unattractive ways.

    Someone will market to customer loyalty again, at some point.

    Until then the swarm will just keep hopping along to the Next New Thing, as soon as the NNT is released.

    Which will also contribute to BDO's eventual demise. But that's OK, the cash shop won't notice. The stockholders might.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,193
    ...

    You cannot stop ennui. The best you can do is delaying tactics, slow it down as much as possible.

    ...
    I think MMO developers have stopped trying to keep players for "years". It's simply unrealistic.

    It's far more sensible to get them to spend the maximum amount of money in the first 2 to 3 months that they play. After that, any extra spending they do is a bonus. If they leave the cash shop wouldn't notice...

    The focus is on attracting new players, not keeping existing ones.

    New players are usually in the honeymoon phase and act as salesman for the game. They are starry-eyed and amazed at all the complex content before them.

    Older players are jaded and bored and complain because they have nothing to do and have figured out and beaten all the complexity. They are no longer spending money on bag space, mounts or XP potions...

    Bingo 

    The % of players who stick with a game for years nowdays is a really tiny minority. 

    It's been unrealistic for over 7+ years already.
  • patx6xpatx6x Member UncommonPosts: 11
    virtual world are now corrupted by the capitalism and the world slowly collaspe into void
  • Stone_FountainStone_Fountain Member UncommonPosts: 233
    Without content that changes, Without an expansive world 'with' content what you have is repetition and PVP...which is just another extension of repetition. The game might play well, Archeage played well but in what, under 4 hours you pushed through all of its content. What was left was repetition...in everything. Planting, harvesting, crafting, while these pursuits can be fun in games every game I've played where this is whats left to do for years becomes boring. there might be moments that keep you liking the game but once you've made the best stuff you can or that is possible than what...you...create them again and again until that gets boring. This model is flawed, period and it won't be long before I see many of you back out here next year looking for something else.

    First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    ... This model is flawed, period and it won't be long before I see many of you back out here next year looking for something else.
    What if the model isn't flawed at all ? What if it's the best it will ever be ?

    No entertainment medium has ever come up with an everlasting formula. The closest thing we have to MMO's in other media is the TV series. A few of those have had remarkable runs of seven seasons or so, but the vast majority go 2 or 3 seasons, then the writers either run out of ideas or the public simply gets bored.

    Expecting an MMO to come up with an endless stream of original, exciting content and/or systems is simply a pipe dream.

    The idea that "the fun must never end" is about as realistic as human immortality...
  • TruXurTTruXurT Member UncommonPosts: 18


    BDO seems to get the most praise from people who haven't reached level cap yet. Eventually they'll get there, and I wonder how they'll feel about the game then.



    I've read tons of posts from people saying things like, "I'm level 25 and having a blast- check out this boat I made!" but not a single one from someone saying, "I'm level 50 and having a blast!"




    Well I saw people that reached lvl 50 within first few days of the game launch. This is not that hard to do if that's what you want to focus on. But by doing it so fast, you skip a lot of content and game systems. So yes, people at lvl 25 enjoy the game more, because they do more than just grinding themselves to a higher level. Bottom line is that the combat level (or as I call it a fishing level as to my dismay fishing does increase that level), does not define your character in the game. I think what does really is your contribution points. At this point with 4 characters (highest at combat/fishing lvl 25) I already accumulated 90 contribution points. Looking forward to doubling that.

    Enjoy the game. Do not worry about the level. That's what makes it special.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,193
    edited March 2016
    TruXurT said:


    BDO seems to get the most praise from people who haven't reached level cap yet. Eventually they'll get there, and I wonder how they'll feel about the game then.



    I've read tons of posts from people saying things like, "I'm level 25 and having a blast- check out this boat I made!" but not a single one from someone saying, "I'm level 50 and having a blast!"




    Well I saw people that reached lvl 50 within first few days of the game launch. This is not that hard to do if that's what you want to focus on. But by doing it so fast, you skip a lot of content and game systems. So yes, people at lvl 25 enjoy the game more, because they do more than just grinding themselves to a higher level. Bottom line is that the combat level (or as I call it a fishing level as to my dismay fishing does increase that level), does not define your character in the game. I think what does really is your contribution points. At this point with 4 characters (highest at combat/fishing lvl 25) I already accumulated 90 contribution points. Looking forward to doubling that.

    Enjoy the game. Do not worry about the level. That's what makes it special.


    You can gain contribution points about 4x faster as a level 50 going back and running those mindless quests than a level 25.

    I hit 50 in about 26 hours taking my time and have 102 contribution points but then again I played this game in KR so in know my way around.

    My fishing is at zero too heh.

    Level absolutely defines your character in BDO it is actually used to calculate "to hit", damage, mitigation and everything,  so level is one of the most important factors, followed by gear. 

    Try landing hits on a player 5 levels above you.....

    Please 


  • davchadavcha Member UncommonPosts: 127
    DMKano said:

    Level absolutely defines your character in BDO it is actually used to calculate "to hit", damage, mitigation and everything,  so level is one of the most important factors, followed by gear. 

    Try landing hits on a player 5 levels above you.....

    Please 
    So, if I have a combat level 50 with everything else being at level 1, can I ride a horse ?
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    davcha said:
    DMKano said:

    Level absolutely defines your character in BDO it is actually used to calculate "to hit", damage, mitigation and everything,  so level is one of the most important factors, followed by gear. 

    Try landing hits on a player 5 levels above you.....

    Please 
    So, if I have a combat level 50 with everything else being at level 1, can I ride a horse ?

    More appropriately, can you tame a horse?  Have you bred horses?  Have you built a boat?  Have you gone wailing?  How much trading have you done?  How many farms have you built?  How much crafting have you done?  We can go on and on ...

    If all you've done in BDO is rush to top level and engaged in combat, you've accomplished very little of what BDO has to offer.  There is much more to BDO than its combat level.  
  • davchadavcha Member UncommonPosts: 127
    More appropriately, can you tame a horse?  Have you bred horses?  Have you built a boat?  Have you gone wailing?  How much trading have you done?  How many farms have you built?  How much crafting have you done?  We can go on and on ...

    If all you've done in BDO is rush to top level and engaged in combat, you've accomplished very little of what BDO has to offer.  There is much more to BDO than its combat level.  
    This is basically what I meant.

    And combat (competitive combat or not, pvp or pve) is not the only activity that should be available/promoted. World of warcraft and its clones have been fun for a while, but ultimately, if I use the same logic as the logic used by some players in this thread, endgame is boring. Add new content, new raids, new enemies, new weapons, new armor... New abilities... It all reduce to the single thing you've done from the beginning of the game : kill and loot stuff. The stories told in this content may be interesting (most of the time they are not), but if I wanted someone to tell me a story in which I have no role, I'd be reading a book, or watch a movie. In theme parks mmorpgs, the role you play in the story is a delusion : from a storytelling point of view, your character is nothing more than a medium to give you access to the story. Reading wikis tells you the exact same story, for example. Often in a more intelligible way.

    So, it's kind of nice to have something different, for once.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,070
    davcha said:
    DMKano said:

    Level absolutely defines your character in BDO it is actually used to calculate "to hit", damage, mitigation and everything,  so level is one of the most important factors, followed by gear. 

    Try landing hits on a player 5 levels above you.....

    Please 
    So, if I have a combat level 50 with everything else being at level 1, can I ride a horse ?

    More appropriately, can you tame a horse?  Have you bred horses?  Have you built a boat?  Have you gone wailing?  How much trading have you done?  How many farms have you built?  How much crafting have you done?  We can go on and on ...

    If all you've done in BDO is rush to top level and engaged in combat, you've accomplished very little of what BDO has to offer.  There is much more to BDO than its combat level.  
    hmmm, well I don't really think that's important to all players.

    The thing I like about Black Desert is that it seems I don't have to tame a horse or build a boat. And for me that's fine.

    Of course it means that I am going to have to make up for money shortfalls by grinding but that's ok by me.

    I like a game that offers things and that players can pick and choose. 



  • CryolitycalCryolitycal Member UncommonPosts: 205
    "carving a path in a huge and varied world, making a name for yourself as a baker, a fisherman, a blacksmith, a warrior, a pirate, or a scoundrel."
    LOL.

    I slay dragons, with 19 other people, and am damn good at it. I do theorycrafting. I am using simulators to optimize my DPS. I am playing multiple classes to the best of their potential in the most challenging multiplayer PvE yet in MMOs.

    And you'd want me to give up on this to become... a BAKER?

    Gotta lol again.

    No thank you.
  • davchadavcha Member UncommonPosts: 127
    edited March 2016
    "carving a path in a huge and varied world, making a name for yourself as a baker, a fisherman, a blacksmith, a warrior, a pirate, or a scoundrel."
    LOL.

    I slay dragons, with 19 other people, and am damn good at it. I do theorycrafting. I am using simulators to optimize my DPS. I am playing multiple classes to the best of their potential in the most challenging multiplayer PvE yet in MMOs.

    And you'd want me to give up on this to become... a BAKER?

    Gotta lol again.

    No thank you.
    You never played SWG, have you ?
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    "carving a path in a huge and varied world, making a name for yourself as a baker, a fisherman, a blacksmith, a warrior, a pirate, or a scoundrel."
    LOL.

    I slay dragons, with 19 other people, and am damn good at it. I do theorycrafting. I am using simulators to optimize my DPS. I am playing multiple classes to the best of their potential in the most challenging multiplayer PvE yet in MMOs.

    And you'd want me to give up on this to become... a BAKER?

    Gotta lol again.

    No thank you.
    Thankfully, not everyone in the world wants to be a theorycrafting, min-maxing, huper-efficient dragon slayer !

    The world would be such a dreary place without bread... :D 
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,193
    davcha said:
    DMKano said:

    Level absolutely defines your character in BDO it is actually used to calculate "to hit", damage, mitigation and everything,  so level is one of the most important factors, followed by gear. 

    Try landing hits on a player 5 levels above you.....

    Please 
    So, if I have a combat level 50 with everything else being at level 1, can I ride a horse ?

    Yes you can ;)


  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,411
    So what are the raids like? ;)
    ....
  • davchadavcha Member UncommonPosts: 127
    YashaX said:
    So what are the raids like? ;)
    How are the breeding, housing and alternative activities in your theme park ?
  • davchadavcha Member UncommonPosts: 127
    This thread is just incredibly stupid, or am I missing something ?

    Now, it looks like bodybuilders trying to say that chess is dull, because you don't even lift...
  • shalissarshalissar Member UncommonPosts: 508
    DMKano said:



    You're only telling part of the story.  What about the majority of the population sitting at 45 to 50 with+7 gear? There aren't that many prime grind spots in BDO.  All hell is going to break loose when the few are overlording over the many, not allowing them to gear up and be able to compete?  Talk about empty servers.  That's an understatement.  Daum ain't that stupid.
    There's always the possibility that Daum really isn't that stupid, but not in the way you think they aren't.  I wouldn't be too surprised if Daum made the game Buy-to-Play (IE, get all the money from all the PvEers before they realize what they're getting into) knowing fully well what BDO really is.

    As for the remaining small niche player base after all the PvEers leave, well, that's what switching to F2P, P2W, and then milking those hardcore competitive PvPers for all they're worth is for!

    If that is Daum's intention, that's not stupid at all.  In fact, it's very intelligent and shrewd.

    I don't even think you believe what you're saying.  There isn't very much I can say if you consider losing the majority of their player base very intelligent and shrewd decision making.  You do realize they're trying to run a business here, no?  lol


    Little known fact - an aggressive cash shop can bring in HIGHER income with a fraction of the players than a tame cash shop with 3x the players.

    Sadly I can't share any details as it's not for public eyes, but there is a western MMO that made more money even with 40% less playerbase after redoing their cash shop.

    It's about getting paying players to spend as much as possible. Monetize the whales 
    is it archeage? it's archeage, isn't it :)
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,039
    What's end game like is one question I never ask
  • johnny12343johnny12343 Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Jesus Christ you are all so wrong. I like the review. But you people are speaking with out knowing or understanding. There is endgame there is goals. I'm level 52 in one of top ranked guilds in game. First if you've hit 50 your next goal is similar to destiny in that of leveling up your gear. You want to max out everything including accessories. This is not an easy task and will take you on many adventures. Next you should be in a guild and you should be doing your daily guild and daily black spirit quest, this is how you'll get your boss scrolls to do scroll runs to get massive loot. Very similar to dungeon and raid runs imo. So now you've all maxed out what do you do now? Well once the siege guild pvp content gets released in the next few weeks you are going to spend a massive amount of time pvping and build a large or small empire for your guild making tons of money for yourself and your guild mates. If all of this doesn't fulfill your needs there are already two huge expansions( so to say) on the way and should be out before the year is up and many many more to follow. This game is massive and truly remarkable once you start to understand it but please trust me when I say that you just probably haven't fully grasped it yet. If you haven't at least played to lvl 40 then give it another shot. First week I played I hated it. Almost quit all together. The next week I played and started understanding it, I feel in love and now I've barely got any sleep all month. This is the next SWG the next UO. Quit getting behind and start experiencing it.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,257
    "carving a path in a huge and varied world, making a name for yourself as a baker, a fisherman, a blacksmith, a warrior, a pirate, or a scoundrel."
    LOL.

    I slay dragons, with 19 other people, and am damn good at it. I do theorycrafting. I am using simulators to optimize my DPS. I am playing multiple classes to the best of their potential in the most challenging multiplayer PvE yet in MMOs.

    And you'd want me to give up on this to become... a BAKER?

    Gotta lol again.

    No thank you.
    Agreed lol. I can (and DO) bake regularly in real life and have the benefit of actually eating my creations. Then I sit down at the computer and kick some PvE or PvP ass. I happen to like my themepark content. /shrug
  • TruXurTTruXurT Member UncommonPosts: 18
    DMKano said:
    TruXurT said:


    BDO seems to get the most praise from people who haven't reached level cap yet. Eventually they'll get there, and I wonder how they'll feel about the game then.



    I've read tons of posts from people saying things like, "I'm level 25 and having a blast- check out this boat I made!" but not a single one from someone saying, "I'm level 50 and having a blast!"




    Well I saw people that reached lvl 50 within first few days of the game launch. This is not that hard to do if that's what you want to focus on. But by doing it so fast, you skip a lot of content and game systems. So yes, people at lvl 25 enjoy the game more, because they do more than just grinding themselves to a higher level. Bottom line is that the combat level (or as I call it a fishing level as to my dismay fishing does increase that level), does not define your character in the game. I think what does really is your contribution points. At this point with 4 characters (highest at combat/fishing lvl 25) I already accumulated 90 contribution points. Looking forward to doubling that.

    Enjoy the game. Do not worry about the level. That's what makes it special.


    You can gain contribution points about 4x faster as a level 50 going back and running those mindless quests than a level 25.

    I hit 50 in about 26 hours taking my time and have 102 contribution points but then again I played this game in KR so in know my way around.

    My fishing is at zero too heh.

    Level absolutely defines your character in BDO it is actually used to calculate "to hit", damage, mitigation and everything,  so level is one of the most important factors, followed by gear. 

    Try landing hits on a player 5 levels above you.....

    Please 


    You see at lvl 25 I do not need to worry about hitting any player, lower or higher level.

    But you are missing my point. What makes this game great that are multiple ways to enjoy it. For some of us, it is to be a top ranked PvPer. For others is to finally build an item they wanted, be it a boat, armor jewelry, you name it. 

    My current focus is on breeding some awesome horses and I am having blast doing that.

    As long as people enjoy it, that's what matters. I don't think there is only one right way to play this game. 


Sign In or Register to comment.