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I finally accepted the fact

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  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    The truth is anyone can come up with reason why almost any game is pay to win. Haters gonna find a way to hate. Knights are gonna find way  knight.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,315
    Sovrath said:
    ArChWind said:

    I am all for you dude. I have already quit. Can't move forward much now since at 50 it is just near impossible to do it without getting PK'ed three and four times a day. Spending more time going backwards than forward so screw it.

    Best luck on your adventures in BDO.
    Why don't you just party up? Join a guild. Also, if someone bothers you and you are solo, change channels.
    I don't see much of a point of being 45+ if you're not in a guild anyway.
    I have to agree.

    I suppose it would have helped but what really got me pissed the most LOL was I auto run to a spot and was pk'ed on the road while I went afk since the run was like 12 minutes. I ran out of my free ET so I had to take the loss again which was more than I gained that night.

    Then I was Pk'ed while fighting mobs which I rounded up so I had mobs to tend to and a PK'er at the same time so I ended up dead by mobs.

    Just a lot of assholes in this game right now.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,095
    edited March 2016
    ArChWind said:
    Sovrath said:
    ArChWind said:

    I am all for you dude. I have already quit. Can't move forward much now since at 50 it is just near impossible to do it without getting PK'ed three and four times a day. Spending more time going backwards than forward so screw it.

    Best luck on your adventures in BDO.
    Why don't you just party up? Join a guild. Also, if someone bothers you and you are solo, change channels.
    I don't see much of a point of being 45+ if you're not in a guild anyway.
    I have to agree.

    I suppose it would have helped but what really got me pissed the most LOL was I auto run to a spot and was pk'ed on the road while I went afk since the run was like 12 minutes. I ran out of my free ET so I had to take the loss again which was more than I gained that night.

    Then I was Pk'ed while fighting mobs which I rounded up so I had mobs to tend to and a PK'er at the same time so I ended up dead by mobs.

    Just a lot of assholes in this game right now.


    Being in a guild has downsides if you are solo - as the other guild will just declare a war on your guild and PK you without karma loss.

    I roll guildless and simply gank folks before they have a chance to do the same to me. 

    I can clean my karma from killing in about 20 min flat so I can safely kill every 20 min but I am sitting on 180k karma now if I need to kill a few folks faster than that.
  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    The truth is anyone can come up with reason why almost any game is pay to win. Haters gonna find a way to hate. Knights are gonna find a way to knight.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,138
    ArChWind said:
    Sovrath said:
    ArChWind said:

    I am all for you dude. I have already quit. Can't move forward much now since at 50 it is just near impossible to do it without getting PK'ed three and four times a day. Spending more time going backwards than forward so screw it.

    Best luck on your adventures in BDO.
    Why don't you just party up? Join a guild. Also, if someone bothers you and you are solo, change channels.
    I don't see much of a point of being 45+ if you're not in a guild anyway.
    I have to agree.

    I suppose it would have helped but what really got me pissed the most LOL was I auto run to a spot and was pk'ed on the road while I went afk since the run was like 12 minutes. I ran out of my free ET so I had to take the loss again which was more than I gained that night.

    Then I was Pk'ed while fighting mobs which I rounded up so I had mobs to tend to and a PK'er at the same time so I ended up dead by mobs.

    Just a lot of assholes in this game right now.
    Just like in EVE, autopilot is available but is rarely a good idea to use in dangerous territory, and always comes with a risk no matter where or when you use it.

    Gankers always attack when you are surrounded by mobs and I wish more games worked like DAOCs FFA PVP servers did, (RIP Mordred).

    The npcs would immediately disengage when a player fighting them was attacked, and could regain aggro after a few seconds on any nearby player including the attacking ganker.

    Even better, upon being hit by the attackers first blow their health immediately regenerated to full health, so to gank required one to time it so you could kill the player with the alpha strike, and a smart PVEer didn't often let their health get that low.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 603
    edited March 2016
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    DMKano said:
    p2w is defined in the gaming community as getting a advantage over another player by means of using cash.
    There is no accepted definition of P2W.
    Yes there is. Just because you won't admit you enjoy P2W games (first AA, now BDO to a lesser extent) doesn't mean there isn't a commonly accepted definition of what a P2W game is. The poster you quoted just said it loud and clear. The fact you don't agree or are too hypocritical to accept it doesn't make it invalid.


    Learn the proper definition and you too can start having enlightened conversations.


    ROFL...enlightened conversations? Is that what you're having?...About video games?
    Don't let me interrupt then, I wouldn't want to interfere with the constant flow of genius emanating from your finger tips.

    Incidentally you confirmed my point that there is a commonly accepted definition of P2W. But I guess you're too blinded by your self proclaimed enlightenment to see it...dumb ass.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    People can deny it all they want, but it's definitely P2W.

    It gives an advantage in a competitive field.  If there were other options to acquire these items then it wouldn't be as bad.
  • yucklawyersyucklawyers Member UncommonPosts: 231
    Are people still going on about +1 fishing being P2W? lol :)


  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,415
    rertez said:
    DMKano said:

    Granted the last time I played WoW was vanilla so maybe I am WAY wrong,  but the base price includes everything that is reasonably needed to play the game comfortably as far as end user experience. 

    I could not play BD without auto-looting pets due to AoE grind nature of the game for me - every minutes there are 30+ mobs dead that I'd have to click on without pets. It's pretty damn unplayable to me if I didn't have pets.

    PvP treant suit is a also a must IMO. Instant rez tears can be hugely useful in situations where your group gets rolled in PvP and is about to lose a node or grind spot.  Etc....

    Maybe WoW is the same way today  - there are things you must buy to make the game reasonably enjoyable, but I think that WoW includes everything in the base game.

    That is the difference. Again i haven't played WoW in 10+ years so maybe I am just flat out wrong.


    FYI WoW has a cash shop item called WoW Token that can be legally sold for ingame gold so that anyone can purchase gold for real money. Also if I'm not mistaken in WoW it's been legal to multibox with up to four accounts.

    And although it's not legal a lot of players tend to go the botting route in that game. It's clearly noticable that even BG's are loaded with bots especially during nights.

    Yet not many cry P2W due to the nature of a huge part of WoW's community. It always amazed me how the same people who remain silent about WoW's current business model bash on other games and call them P2W. I'm not talking about this particular "drama" about BDO offering some features through its cash shop but how a lot of WoW players tend to bash on every single MMO in general while they accept the fact that WoW has a fairly similar business model besides it's still being a monthly sub game. Some even talk about WoW being a good example of how MMOs should be offering paid services in 2016.

    Of course I'm not saying that it's typical of WoW's community but it's clear that there is a vocal crowd among them that don't accept any paid features in MMOs but the ones in WoW, including paid server transfers, paid faction changes, legalized gold selling, paid max level characters, cash shop exclusive mounts, legally playing simultaneously on multiple accounts, annoying chat spams, (illegal) botting even in PvP and so on. It's just strange how people judge different games.
    WoW isn't p2w because you can't get the best gear with gold.  You could buy a million gold but still be a scrub struggling with tier 1 raids and getting 1 shot in pvp because in WoW, you have to earn the gear in-game, you don't just buy upgrades.

    Its been a while since I played wow, but I know for certain that you can buy the powerful enchants and so forth from the auction house (because I did that) and I am pretty sure you can also buy and sell weapons and armor on the AH.

    A quick search revealed that you can buy Champion’s Honor badges which can be used to buy pvp gear: http://kotaku.com/a-handy-way-to-gear-up-quickly-in-world-of-warcraft-1720334545
    ....
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,761
    YashaX said:
    rertez said:
    DMKano said:

    Granted the last time I played WoW was vanilla so maybe I am WAY wrong,  but the base price includes everything that is reasonably needed to play the game comfortably as far as end user experience. 

    I could not play BD without auto-looting pets due to AoE grind nature of the game for me - every minutes there are 30+ mobs dead that I'd have to click on without pets. It's pretty damn unplayable to me if I didn't have pets.

    PvP treant suit is a also a must IMO. Instant rez tears can be hugely useful in situations where your group gets rolled in PvP and is about to lose a node or grind spot.  Etc....

    Maybe WoW is the same way today  - there are things you must buy to make the game reasonably enjoyable, but I think that WoW includes everything in the base game.

    That is the difference. Again i haven't played WoW in 10+ years so maybe I am just flat out wrong.


    FYI WoW has a cash shop item called WoW Token that can be legally sold for ingame gold so that anyone can purchase gold for real money. Also if I'm not mistaken in WoW it's been legal to multibox with up to four accounts.

    And although it's not legal a lot of players tend to go the botting route in that game. It's clearly noticable that even BG's are loaded with bots especially during nights.

    Yet not many cry P2W due to the nature of a huge part of WoW's community. It always amazed me how the same people who remain silent about WoW's current business model bash on other games and call them P2W. I'm not talking about this particular "drama" about BDO offering some features through its cash shop but how a lot of WoW players tend to bash on every single MMO in general while they accept the fact that WoW has a fairly similar business model besides it's still being a monthly sub game. Some even talk about WoW being a good example of how MMOs should be offering paid services in 2016.

    Of course I'm not saying that it's typical of WoW's community but it's clear that there is a vocal crowd among them that don't accept any paid features in MMOs but the ones in WoW, including paid server transfers, paid faction changes, legalized gold selling, paid max level characters, cash shop exclusive mounts, legally playing simultaneously on multiple accounts, annoying chat spams, (illegal) botting even in PvP and so on. It's just strange how people judge different games.
    WoW isn't p2w because you can't get the best gear with gold.  You could buy a million gold but still be a scrub struggling with tier 1 raids and getting 1 shot in pvp because in WoW, you have to earn the gear in-game, you don't just buy upgrades.

    Its been a while since I played wow, but I know for certain that you can buy the powerful enchants and so forth from the auction house (because I did that) and I am pretty sure you can also buy and sell weapons and armor on the AH.

    A quick search revealed that you can buy Champion’s Honor badges which can be used to buy pvp gear: http://kotaku.com/a-handy-way-to-gear-up-quickly-in-world-of-warcraft-1720334545
    I haven't played for awhile either, but i'd be very surprised if you could buy the best stuff with gold only.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,138
    Scambug said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    DMKano said:
    p2w is defined in the gaming community as getting a advantage over another player by means of using cash.
    There is no accepted definition of P2W.
    Yes there is. Just because you won't admit you enjoy P2W games (first AA, now BDO to a lesser extent) doesn't mean there isn't a commonly accepted definition of what a P2W game is. The poster you quoted just said it loud and clear. The fact you don't agree or are too hypocritical to accept it doesn't make it invalid.


    Learn the proper definition and you too can start having enlightened conversations.


    ROFL...enlightened conversations? Is that what you're having?...About video games?
    Don't let me interrupt then, I wouldn't want to interfere with the constant flow of genius emanating from your finger tips.

    Incidentally you confirmed my point that there is a commonly accepted definition of P2W. But I guess you're too blinded by your self proclaimed enlightenment to see it...dumb ass.

    Ah, name calling and derision, thanks for conceding the debate to the superior intellect.

    Too easy. 

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,415
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    DMKano said:
    p2w is defined in the gaming community as getting a advantage over another player by means of using cash.
    There is no accepted definition of P2W.
    Yes there is. Just because you won't admit you enjoy P2W games (first AA, now BDO to a lesser extent) doesn't mean there isn't a commonly accepted definition of what a P2W game is. The poster you quoted just said it loud and clear. The fact you don't agree or are too hypocritical to accept it doesn't make it invalid.


    Learn the proper definition and you too can start having enlightened conversations.


    ROFL...enlightened conversations? Is that what you're having?...About video games?
    Don't let me interrupt then, I wouldn't want to interfere with the constant flow of genius emanating from your finger tips.

    Incidentally you confirmed my point that there is a commonly accepted definition of P2W. But I guess you're too blinded by your self proclaimed enlightenment to see it...dumb ass.

    Ah, name calling and derision, thanks for conceding the debate to the superior intellect.

    Too easy. 
    P2W means being able to pay cash to gain an advantage. It exists to a greater or lesser extent in nearly every mmo and even in single/multiplayer games now. The key being "to a greater or lesser extent". 

    The problem is that people use it in somewhat of a blanket manner to put down a game by labeling in "p2w". The unenlightened folks see the "p2w" label and just get on the hate train without really looking into the matter any further.

    In BDO's case yeah, it has p2w elements but they are extremely limited compared to games like Rift, Arche Age, Trove (am I seeing some publisher specific trend here?), and Neverwinter Online, while being somewhat similar (I would say less p2w) than games like GW2, ESO, and WoW. Then we have the outright crazy p2w games like Star citizen which people are sinking thousands of dollars into before it has even been released.

    What I find ironic about people labeling BDO "p2w" is that it is actually one of the least "p2w" games on the market. Its almost funny that people complain about a $30 costume that hides your nametag while other games are selling end-game equipment for thousands of dollars or allow you to convert cash to ingame currency.


    ....
  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 558
    Any pvp game with a cashshop that sells more than cosmetics is P2W, it's that simple.
    In pve games, it's different, people just pay for the sake of being milked.
  • RandaynRandayn Member UncommonPosts: 904
    since when has the need to defend a game's cash shop and "200 hours" of farming been considered a fun thing in a game?  Im so lost with this new generation of gamers...instant gratification, constant pain...

    image
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,866
    edited March 2016
    Iselin said:
    P2W has become such a meaningless cliche that I just shake my head when people say it about every new game.

    It's always the same people who make fun of non-functional fluffy stuff in the cash shop that get outraged when anything they sell has actual value beyond vanity.

    Do you really think that any non-sub game, whether it has an entry cost or not, could survive with just vanity fluff for sale?

    Give your thinking bits a shake.


    This is different and you know it. It may not be P2W but this is one of the most heavy handed cash shops I have seen. Some of them so close to the line of P2W it's almost splitting hairs. Like the suit that drops your name tag for PvP. 



  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,022
    Never again asian games! They start as super awesome revolutionary games but every time i got burned.And eventually people realise that are just money sponge.Don't take my word just check the facts.
    Sorry for the fan boys that are gona rage over this.For the others peace and western games FTW!
    Is your avatar picture Strider?  Isn't that an Asian game?
  • advokat666advokat666 Member UncommonPosts: 93
    YashaX said:
    allow you to convert cash to ingame currency.


    What we should not forget is not from the table in BDO West. If Daum will decide in the future to make the western version anyhow like the korean one, bdo west will also be p2w as fuck. They did not rule out completely to make costumes sellable on the market place in the future.
  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 603
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    DMKano said:
    p2w is defined in the gaming community as getting a advantage over another player by means of using cash.
    There is no accepted definition of P2W.
    Yes there is. Just because you won't admit you enjoy P2W games (first AA, now BDO to a lesser extent) doesn't mean there isn't a commonly accepted definition of what a P2W game is. The poster you quoted just said it loud and clear. The fact you don't agree or are too hypocritical to accept it doesn't make it invalid.


    Learn the proper definition and you too can start having enlightened conversations.


    ROFL...enlightened conversations? Is that what you're having?...About video games?
    Don't let me interrupt then, I wouldn't want to interfere with the constant flow of genius emanating from your finger tips.

    Incidentally you confirmed my point that there is a commonly accepted definition of P2W. But I guess you're too blinded by your self proclaimed enlightenment to see it...dumb ass.

    Ah, name calling and derision, thanks for conceding the debate to the superior intellect.

    Too easy. 
    Is that what you do? Come on forums and show off your superiority to a handful of anonymous randoms?
    You're more desperate and pathetic than I thought.
    Moving on...
  • CryptorCryptor Member UncommonPosts: 523
    Not a single thing that OP mentions gives anyone an advantage in-game.  I have been playing since release without spending a dime, having a blast for what it's worth.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,411
    Cryptor said:
    Not a single thing that OP mentions gives anyone an advantage in-game.  I have been playing since release without spending a dime, having a blast for what it's worth.
    Same. But don't waste your breath, they know the TRUTH (especially those who don't even play the game.)
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,411
    DMKano said:


    I roll guildless and simply gank folks before they have a chance to do the same to me. 


    Let's see... you rushed to 50, never fished or have done any of those things the rest of us enjoy... you even laugh at those things. You play solo PVP with no guild... and you think a ghillie suit is essential... yup gotcha.... you're playing the game as intended. It's the rest of us who are waiting for the real GvG PVP to start who are doing it wrong. :)
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,079
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:


    I roll guildless and simply gank folks before they have a chance to do the same to me. 


    Let's see... you rushed to 50, never fished or have done any of those things the rest of us enjoy... you even laugh at those things. You play solo PVP with no guild... and you think a ghillie suit is essential... yup gotcha.... you're playing the game as intended. It's the rest of us who are waiting for the real GvG PVP to start who are doing it wrong. :)
    Congratulations. You just PKed DMKano ;)
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • n3v3rriv3rn3v3rriv3r Member UncommonPosts: 496
    Hmm sure we now have the euphemism P2A.  =)  Boring and not creative imho.
  • xtr3m3m3t4lxtr3m3m3t4l Member UncommonPosts: 28
    @scumbag  Yes!
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,138
    Scambug said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scambug said:
    DMKano said:
    p2w is defined in the gaming community as getting a advantage over another player by means of using cash.
    There is no accepted definition of P2W.
    Yes there is. Just because you won't admit you enjoy P2W games (first AA, now BDO to a lesser extent) doesn't mean there isn't a commonly accepted definition of what a P2W game is. The poster you quoted just said it loud and clear. The fact you don't agree or are too hypocritical to accept it doesn't make it invalid.


    Learn the proper definition and you too can start having enlightened conversations.


    ROFL...enlightened conversations? Is that what you're having?...About video games?
    Don't let me interrupt then, I wouldn't want to interfere with the constant flow of genius emanating from your finger tips.

    Incidentally you confirmed my point that there is a commonly accepted definition of P2W. But I guess you're too blinded by your self proclaimed enlightenment to see it...dumb ass.

    Ah, name calling and derision, thanks for conceding the debate to the superior intellect.

    Too easy. 
    Is that what you do? Come on forums and show off your superiority to a handful of anonymous randoms?
    You're more desperate and pathetic than I thought.
    Moving on...
    More name calling, I revile in your frustration and failure.

    /smug

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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