Yeh, GrumpyHobbit, bump the thread a couple more times, even though I can't see your words, because I have you on ignore, because you rarely reply to thread subject, but attack the participants. You're not bothering me anymore, dood.
When you guys stop making personal attacks against other posters, CIG employees and the game in general perhaps I will give you a bit of respect.
But until that point I will continue to point out the ridiculous comments you make, the false propaganda you spread, the statements about the state of the game that are false, the linking of posts and videos that upon inspection have little resemblance to the point being made when linking them and overall constant, negative, repetitive, whiny, crybaby posts that are made on an almost hourly basis.
You know how, when you're playing a persistent mmo game, at first transactions between players are at a really reasonable ratio of game currency for item? You know how, after 4 or 5 years, stuff an introductory player might want to buy is all completely out of reach, because there's so much volume of currency in the game that game cash has lost much of its value?
Yeh, that's what's happening right now, and the company is making money from it happening, long before there even in a release product. Fun game, huh.
So, I understand in 2.5, or shortly after, there's been some discussion for having "alpha UEC". I think it's a good thing, because this new idea will allow them to test economy while setting store-bought UEC to the side, so there's little confusion whether they intend people to spend cash-for-gold currency in the potentially reset alpha stages. I was really not pleased when H1Z1 did this with "drops" in development stages, and it's good CIG isn't going that route.
When (if) the game does go live (sans server wipes), does this mean UEC definitively ( real UEC, not alpha UEC ) will be the in-game universe currency, which the company has been selling all along? Will the devs invent a new currency for in-game use, making all these people with 10 accounts with full wallets, having spent 3 years melting and manipulating, feel as if they've wasted all that time messing around? What will be the value of 300k UEC ( say, 2 accounts between a married couple ) when they go to use it in trade with other players, when the volume of cash is potentially tens of billions? (150k times tens of thousands)
The secret of reading Roberts pronouncements is to consider them his fanciful wishes -- until you can actually test things yourself. Example - Space Marines. Anything he presents 'may or may not' happen. Good chance no one at CIG actually knows how their currency thing will end up working.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
What's all the fuss about ? It won't be the first time in the history of game development that currency spent during "beta testing" is refunded at the end of that testing cycle. It's a really simple thing to do.
As for the developer reserving the right to change the rules as they see fit, well, that's been part-and-parcel of every game developed ever !
The OP is just another weaksauce attempt to generate "controversy" around the SC project.
It's getting to the point now where people merely have to look at the name of the thread creator to know what the contents will be. Some people will need to start using alt accounts if they want to keep their "hate campaigns" fresh...
Ok. Next someone is going to say, "Alpha UEC was the plan all along! How do you know what's in developers' heads! You think you're so special, that they have closed meetings discussing your threads, how they're damaging to the company's image, and what knee-jerk reaction they can toss around as damage control!?!?".
It wasn't ever mentioned before the last two days. They do have closed meetings discussing threads as this and many others. It is damage control. This doesn't fix all the issues I proposed.
Maybe CIG should hire me so I can clean up their act. I don't really think they could afford me, though, partly with how little they pay people, and because I'm not particularly interested in marketing my principles.
Yes, it has been the plan for a very long time. However, the exact details of the plan weren't finalised back when they first thought about doing it.
I don't know if people expect that game development is like:
100% complete design document that never deviates or changes -> Game
Let me tell you right now that even the safest cash grabs from EA don't work that way. Game development is exceedingly subject to constant changes and it's no different with Star Citizen.
There will be a ton of changes down the road, and now that Erin has started to wield the producer knife, you can be sure there will be lots of omitted features for launch. No ambitious game in history was ever developed with all features fully implemented and as-promised.
However, I can remember Chris Roberts talking about "play money" from the very beginning - in terms of how they wanted to test the economy.
There will be a ton of changes down the road, and now that Erin has started to wield the producer knife, you can be sure there will be lots of omitted features for launch. No ambitious game in history was ever developed with all features fully implemented and as-promised.
Yes, but alot of people "bought into" this project based on specific promises and now, without the hassle of a chargeback on record, they can't get money back when they feel lied to. This is not the same as an Electronic Arts game with changed features before they took peoples' money. That is not a justified or even fair comparison. I can't even believe, with your prior sensible posts, you think this is the same, or even ok.
There will be a ton of changes down the road, and now that Erin has started to wield the producer knife, you can be sure there will be lots of omitted features for launch. No ambitious game in history was ever developed with all features fully implemented and as-promised.
Yes, but alot of people "bought into" this project based on specific promises and now, without the hassle of a chargeback on record, they can't get money back when they feel lied to. This is not the same as an Electronic Arts game with changed features before they took peoples' money. That is not a justified or even fair comparison. I can't even believe, with your prior sensible posts, you think this is the same, or even ok.
However, I can remember Chris Roberts talking about "play money" from the very beginning - in terms of how they wanted to test the economy.
REC is that currency. It's been in for some time. This is new.
I don't think it's fair to expect a refund because you FEEL you've been lied to. You have to have reasonable cause.
What your own fantasy about Star Citizen might have been, it doesn't necessarily match what CIG has been saying from the beginning.
In fact, they've been extremely open about pretty much everything related to the game's development. If you've failed to listen before supporting it, that's hardly on anyone but you.
I don't see any lies whatsoever.
No, I'm talking about PLAY money - as in money you could play with in-game. That was always the plan. REC, so far, has been OUTSIDE the game.
I don't think it's fair to expect a refund because you FEEL you've been lied to. You have to have reasonable cause.
What your own fantasy about Star Citizen might have been, it doesn't necessarily match what CIG has been saying from the beginning.
Alot of people feel lied to, that's not even a subject of discussion. Alot of people have a very different understanding of what this game will be, because CIG created an atmosphere which supports, no less perpetuates, the misunderstandings. I don't have to go back a cite all the retcons, if you've been following at all then you know about them.
I feel so badly for people walking into this project today who are so unaware of the history between this company and its backers. You should feel badly for them, too. You should want people to be educated on all the lines on which peoples' backing were sold, all the false info. But you don't care, nor do many of the people posting here, it's just a game to them, to run with the current retcon or spin so they can appear correct and justified. They're not. It's bad. It's very, very bad.
No, I'm talking about PLAY money - as in money you could play with in-game. That was always the plan. REC, so far, has been OUTSIDE the game.
REC is earned by playing the "alpha", participating in certain things. No currency has been spent "in game" yet, and apparently, in the future after server wipes, that currency will be UEC, if there will now be "Alpha UEC".
This game is taking a long time to come along. They have millions upon millions of dollars and lots of developers, it needs to get going. The "release date" on MMORPG.com is 2016, not sure if that is an upcoming April fools joke or what.
This seems more like a 2018 (or even 2019) problem, way too early to worry about it now, so much can happen before the public launch of PU. (including it never happening)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think it's fair to expect a refund because you FEEL you've been lied to. You have to have reasonable cause.
What your own fantasy about Star Citizen might have been, it doesn't necessarily match what CIG has been saying from the beginning.
Alot of people feel lied to, that's not even a subject of discussion. Alot of people have a very different understanding of what this game will be, because CIG created an atmosphere which supports, no less perpetuates, the misunderstandings. I don't have to go back a cite all the retcons, if you've been following at all then you know about them.
I feel so badly for people walking into this project today who are so unaware of the history between this company and its backers. You should feel badly for them, too. You should want people to be educated on all the lines on which peoples' backing were sold, all the false info. But you don't care, nor do many of the people posting here, it's just a game to them, to run with the current retcon or spin so they can appear correct and justified. They're not. It's bad. It's very, very bad.
Again, I don't think FEELING lied to should be enough for a refund.
I've followed development of a lot of games, as in several hundred of them, and I don't think there's a SINGLE game out there that ever developed into everything everyone expected.
Feeling lied to is a very common state of mind for a lot of people, in my experience.
I don't feel lied to - and I've followed development very closely. I haven't detected a SINGLE lie from CIG in more than 3 years. Not a single one.
But I know what Chris Roberts is like when it comes to dreaming big. That's what he does.
So maybe I understand that when he says he wants something to be in the game - at some point - I also understand that's not a solid promise set in stone.
But no, I don't feel sorry for people who choose ignorance and then whine about it and blame others for their own mistake. Not even a little bit.
Wait, mentioned "game" when referencing Star Citizen... I'm confused.
It's a "game in development". The stage of this, it's currently in, isn't a game, unless you like restarting every time you open the application and doing the same damn missions over and over and over and over and over and over, and call that "a game".
edit: Like a mmo platformer or some shit.
That's why they are testers supposedly. It isn't a game yet and people are there to help in the development. People need to stop look at these things as 'playing' the game.
The game's economy was live when they announced the kickstarter. It will be pay to win requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it. That is pretty much set in stone. Its a real life cash economy and probably won't be any better.
The game's economy was live when they announced the kickstarter. It will be pay to win requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it. That is pretty much set in stone. Its a real life cash economy and probably won't be any better.
The game's economy was live when they announced the kickstarter. It will be pay to win requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it. That is pretty much set in stone. Its a real life cash economy and probably won't be any better.
>>> requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it >>>
Yep, all of 54 $ ... truely ridiculous. What were they thinking at CIG ?!!
And the time when they offered it for 20 and 30 $ during X-mas events .... just a trick, clearly.
If you think that real life cash will dominate the economy .. think again. Let me show you (using an E:D article as an example, but i could also use e.g. EVE Online) how easy it is to get enough in game cash to buy just about everything you want:
Any cash converted from real life cash is a tiny drop in a huge bucket once people figure out how the in game trading works.
The OP fears that there will be billions of UEC from real life cash ? ROFL ... a SINGLE !! player will soon have billions of UEC earned through in game means ... just like they did in E:D or EVE.
The game's economy was live when they announced the kickstarter. It will be pay to win requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it. That is pretty much set in stone. Its a real life cash economy and probably won't be any better.
So, whichever side you're on in p2w and the definition thereof, right there in CIG fancy print, buy in-game currency. I guess they're stuck, now. Claim stuff can easily be acquired in game, making alot of backers really f'ing angry because they thought they got something "special" for supporting the game to the tune of 500, 3000, 35000 dollars, or admit there's some level of p2w in it.
The game's economy was live when they announced the kickstarter. It will be pay to win requiring you to spend rediculous amounts of cash just to play it. That is pretty much set in stone. Its a real life cash economy and probably won't be any better.
So, whichever side you're on in p2w and the definition thereof, right there in CIG fancy print, buy in-game currency. I guess they're stuck, now. Claim stuff can easily be acquired in game, making alot of backers really f'ing angry because they thought they got something "special" for supporting the game to the tune of 500, 3000, 35000 dollars, or admit there's some level of p2w in it.
From the very beginning, the plan has been to allow people to buy credits with real money. Chris Roberts has clearly stated that the intention is to place a limit on how much money can be spent in this way - but that he's also a guy who believes that people who don't have the time to play because they work more also need a way to attain in-game credits.
However, it has also ALWAYS been the plan that the game should be skill-based - not "gear" based. As in, you can't buy your way to success in the game.
That's what the complex flight model is about - and that's what the massive variety of roles is about.
Obviously gear WILL matter - but the plan is that it won't dominate over skill. Everything you can buy will be entry-level stuff - and the "rare" stuff will be attained through normal play. That's something you CAN'T buy.
Essentially, ships are only as powerful as the gear you put in them - and a good pilot in a decent ship will win over a bad pilot in a fancy ship more often than not.
Now, that's the PLAN - but until the game is done or close to done - there's no way to know if it'll work.
Yeh, GrumpyHobbit, bump the thread a couple more times, even though I can't see your words, because I have you on ignore, because you rarely reply to thread subject, but attack the participants. You're not bothering me anymore, dood.
When you guys stop making personal attacks against other posters, CIG employees and the game in general perhaps I will give you a bit of respect.
But until that point I will continue to point out the ridiculous comments you make, the false propaganda you spread, the statements about the state of the game that are false, the linking of posts and videos that upon inspection have little resemblance to the point being made when linking them and overall constant, negative, repetitive, whiny, crybaby posts that are made on an almost hourly basis.
I dunno man, YOUR post is the one that seems like a personal attack. Once again, this comment is a perfect example of a post that means to derail a thread off topic. You should concentrate more on the topic and less on making a personal attack against Adjuvant1.
Personally I cant really comment on the state of the economy because I just haven't looked that much into it. I was never one to care about using real money for in-game stuff so I guess I'm kinda neutral on the subject.
Uh. I thought SC was going to end up being a client/server gizmo where people could host their own shit. Is this not what's being made?
No, private servers were put on backburner long, long ago. It's one of those "we will tell you we will have it eventually if that makes you send us money" things. Honestly, like the VR technology, I have no clue how they plan to explain this to rational, tech-adept people who know and understand the code needs to be prepared in such a manner from the very beginning for such things to be possible.
If too much is client-side, then there's no real reason to sell UEC at all. A 12yo could crack it and give himself unlimited, well, everything. They ( CIG ) don't know what they're doing, at all. I wonder sometimes why I bother intellectualizing it.
Uh. I thought SC was going to end up being a client/server gizmo where people could host their own shit. Is this not what's being made?
No, private servers were put on backburner long, long ago. It's one of those "we will tell you we will have it eventually if that makes you send us money" things. Honestly, like the VR technology, I have no clue how they plan to explain this to rational, tech-adept people who know and understand the code needs to be prepared in such a manner from the very beginning for such things to be possible.
If too much is client-side, then there's no real reason to sell UEC at all. A 12yo could crack it and give himself unlimited, well, everything. They ( CIG ) don't know what they're doing, at all. I wonder sometimes why I bother intellectualizing it.
You're essentially claiming they're idiots who don't know what they're doing - and yet they've managed to develop some pretty amazing tech.
Considering how early SC 2.1+ alpha is - I've certainly been very impressed, especially by stuff like local-to-global physics and the ability to seamlessly go between flying, walking, EVA'ing, shooting, and so on.
I honestly haven't seen a lot of idiots pull off that kind of thing
Comments
But until that point I will continue to point out the ridiculous comments you make, the false propaganda you spread, the statements about the state of the game that are false, the linking of posts and videos that upon inspection have little resemblance to the point being made when linking them and overall constant, negative, repetitive, whiny, crybaby posts that are made on an almost hourly basis.
Yeh, that's what's happening right now, and the company is making money from it happening, long before there even in a release product. Fun game, huh.
When (if) the game does go live (sans server wipes), does this mean UEC definitively ( real UEC, not alpha UEC ) will be the in-game universe currency, which the company has been selling all along? Will the devs invent a new currency for in-game use, making all these people with 10 accounts with full wallets, having spent 3 years melting and manipulating, feel as if they've wasted all that time messing around? What will be the value of 300k UEC ( say, 2 accounts between a married couple ) when they go to use it in trade with other players, when the volume of cash is potentially tens of billions? (150k times tens of thousands)
I guess time will tell how they fix that one.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
As for the developer reserving the right to change the rules as they see fit, well, that's been part-and-parcel of every game developed ever !
The OP is just another weaksauce attempt to generate "controversy" around the SC project.
It's getting to the point now where people merely have to look at the name of the thread creator to know what the contents will be. Some people will need to start using alt accounts if they want to keep their "hate campaigns" fresh...
It wasn't ever mentioned before the last two days. They do have closed meetings discussing threads as this and many others. It is damage control. This doesn't fix all the issues I proposed.
Maybe CIG should hire me so I can clean up their act. I don't really think they could afford me, though, partly with how little they pay people, and because I'm not particularly interested in marketing my principles.
edit: Look at how they called 2.2 the "goon patch", and all they succeeded in doing was showing thousands of people how "fun it could be to play a criminal".
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4cmppg/its_good_to_be_bad/
I don't know if people expect that game development is like:
100% complete design document that never deviates or changes -> Game
Let me tell you right now that even the safest cash grabs from EA don't work that way. Game development is exceedingly subject to constant changes and it's no different with Star Citizen.
There will be a ton of changes down the road, and now that Erin has started to wield the producer knife, you can be sure there will be lots of omitted features for launch. No ambitious game in history was ever developed with all features fully implemented and as-promised.
However, I can remember Chris Roberts talking about "play money" from the very beginning - in terms of how they wanted to test the economy.
REC is that currency. It's been in for some time. This is new.
What your own fantasy about Star Citizen might have been, it doesn't necessarily match what CIG has been saying from the beginning.
In fact, they've been extremely open about pretty much everything related to the game's development. If you've failed to listen before supporting it, that's hardly on anyone but you.
I don't see any lies whatsoever.
No, I'm talking about PLAY money - as in money you could play with in-game. That was always the plan. REC, so far, has been OUTSIDE the game.
I feel so badly for people walking into this project today who are so unaware of the history between this company and its backers. You should feel badly for them, too. You should want people to be educated on all the lines on which peoples' backing were sold, all the false info. But you don't care, nor do many of the people posting here, it's just a game to them, to run with the current retcon or spin so they can appear correct and justified. They're not. It's bad. It's very, very bad.
edit:
REC is earned by playing the "alpha", participating in certain things. No currency has been spent "in game" yet, and apparently, in the future after server wipes, that currency will be UEC, if there will now be "Alpha UEC".
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've followed development of a lot of games, as in several hundred of them, and I don't think there's a SINGLE game out there that ever developed into everything everyone expected.
Feeling lied to is a very common state of mind for a lot of people, in my experience.
I don't feel lied to - and I've followed development very closely. I haven't detected a SINGLE lie from CIG in more than 3 years. Not a single one.
But I know what Chris Roberts is like when it comes to dreaming big. That's what he does.
So maybe I understand that when he says he wants something to be in the game - at some point - I also understand that's not a solid promise set in stone.
But no, I don't feel sorry for people who choose ignorance and then whine about it and blame others for their own mistake. Not even a little bit.
I self identify as a monkey.
Yep, all of 54 $ ... truely ridiculous. What were they thinking at CIG ?!!
And the time when they offered it for 20 and 30 $ during X-mas events .... just a trick, clearly.
If you think that real life cash will dominate the economy .. think again. Let me show you (using an E:D article as an example, but i could also use e.g. EVE Online) how easy it is to get enough in game cash to buy just about everything you want:
http://www.pcgamesn.com/elite-dangerous/elite-dangerous-the-life-of-a-space-billionaire
and a (not complete) list für EVE
http://eveboard.com/fullranks/47-most-isk
Any cash converted from real life cash is a tiny drop in a huge bucket once people figure out how the in game trading works.
The OP fears that there will be billions of UEC from real life cash ? ROFL ... a SINGLE !! player will soon have billions of UEC earned through in game means ... just like they did in E:D or EVE.
Have fun
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description
...they're now available for sale...
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Central-Core-Bank/5-000-UEC-Chit
...and this makes it really, really hard for me to argue against a claim of p2w. I mean, you "can" earn stuff in game, but at what rate? Even the designers don't know the "actual game value of ships" ( but it's supposed to be alot!!!11one!! ), referenced in this link I'm using again, because I feel it's pertinent...
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/312738/are-we-buying-or-gifting-for-a-gift-what-time-value-does-the-ships-have-a-concierge-response
...but what it takes to buy one, and subsequently outfit it, can be purchased outright with cash.
So, whichever side you're on in p2w and the definition thereof, right there in CIG fancy print, buy in-game currency. I guess they're stuck, now. Claim stuff can easily be acquired in game, making alot of backers really f'ing angry because they thought they got something "special" for supporting the game to the tune of 500, 3000, 35000 dollars, or admit there's some level of p2w in it.
However, it has also ALWAYS been the plan that the game should be skill-based - not "gear" based. As in, you can't buy your way to success in the game.
That's what the complex flight model is about - and that's what the massive variety of roles is about.
Obviously gear WILL matter - but the plan is that it won't dominate over skill. Everything you can buy will be entry-level stuff - and the "rare" stuff will be attained through normal play. That's something you CAN'T buy.
Essentially, ships are only as powerful as the gear you put in them - and a good pilot in a decent ship will win over a bad pilot in a fancy ship more often than not.
Now, that's the PLAN - but until the game is done or close to done - there's no way to know if it'll work.
Personally I cant really comment on the state of the economy because I just haven't looked that much into it. I was never one to care about using real money for in-game stuff so I guess I'm kinda neutral on the subject.
Why would you think otherwise?
If too much is client-side, then there's no real reason to sell UEC at all. A 12yo could crack it and give himself unlimited, well, everything. They ( CIG ) don't know what they're doing, at all. I wonder sometimes why I bother intellectualizing it.
Considering how early SC 2.1+ alpha is - I've certainly been very impressed, especially by stuff like local-to-global physics and the ability to seamlessly go between flying, walking, EVA'ing, shooting, and so on.
I honestly haven't seen a lot of idiots pull off that kind of thing