Gender locking, and limited class and or skill tree options, STOP IT!

SirLorn

This is to all you awesome DEVS.....even if I am going to rant a tad bit, this opener is still sincere.  Being some what of a creative person myself (not comparing to writing code, and designing a game, let alone an IP) I have a lot of respect for what you all do.  

K, that being said, I beg of thee...STOP with the gender locking, and or limited play options, please!  I.E. if you are dead set on your vision, and said vision needs X classes for your vision to be balanced, it is the only option do able in said vision, it's wtf you want, it is your vision.  Then please please don't limit yourself (and US especially) by gender locking these classes!!   

On the subject of 'limited play options' or opinion, if you will, we have moved WAAAAAYYY passed the day when that was the way to develop your classes.  Let's take BDO for example.  Gender locked, limited classes choices.  This IP would have more longevity, IMO, if you were able to mix and match these 'classes' and have both genders.  Now before someone brings up, the ability to add to content releases (new classes \ races) come on, so ALL these races are A sexual?!  

I get the complexities, and or difficulties in actually having a balanced system, the more skill trees, or template possibilities you have in your finished product.   This is almost never right either, but that's no reason to back step into a 'holy trinity' mindset, neither.  

The current trends with Sand-parks isn't going the distance, though.  I am also a firm believer that there are elements that just don't belong if you are making a hybrid.  Especially one more on the sandbox side of the 'scales'.  Thoughts, opinions?  

Slapshot1188

@ Devs Do not listen to the OP. Please make more gender and race locked classes. 

Thanks

Flyte27

Are there really that many games that have gender lock?

I've stated this argument before, but I think having gender locked classes is a cultural issue.  Throughout history different cultures have had different roles for men and women in society.  Different cultures have also tended towards certain classes/jobs/professions. 

I realize this is modern day and everyone wants to be politically correct, but taking that away can really hurt the interesting nuances of a culture IMO.

anemo

Most of the time gender locking in more about the devs putting themselves into the corner, meaning that it takes just as much work to make a new animation set for a new class as it does for the opposite gender.

If you want to get around it just play games that have a more styled(less realistic) graphics.  Or you could deal with floaty/rubbery/glidy/lack-of-impacty animations that have been the complaint in some more recent MMOs as well.

I'm sure BDO could have made mostly gender neutral animations, but it looks like they wanted to show off character customization more.  

__________

I find it annoying too, but I mostly play sub games or EvE.   So there really aren't "lack of completion" problems where I play.

I kind of expect gender locking, and even model locking(IE: all wizards >50 years old) to become worse in the future.   Since so many more people are getting used to it with MOBA's/Dota-alikes and similar.

Scot

MMOs have been "Streamlined" in other words, dumbed down, made small and gameplay cut down. Part of that is reducing classes, reducing graphics needed (one gender classes), reducing skill trees.

Expect more of this not less.

Gaming.Rocks2

@Devs since you're already up, a double martini, stirred, 2 olives, thank you!

Albatroes

Genderlocking saves devs money, so they do it...if people keep giving them money, they wont stop lol..

Steelhelm

Sometimes ingenuity is simple, at least on paper...

a blank paper

choose race
choose sex
alter appearance

hop into the world
learn by doing

where are these rpgs...

Slapshot1188

Steelhelm said:

Sometimes ingenuity is simple, at least on paper...

a blank paper

choose race
choose sex
alter appearance

hop into the world
learn by doing

where are these rpgs...

Try Project Gorgon...  That is exactly what happens.

Cyrael

I'm okay with gender locked classes as long as the variety is there and there's a reason. I'm perfectly okay with valkyries being female-only in Black Desert. I'm not okay with half the available classes at launch being female-only and the rest being split between male-only and both.

Quirhid

Scot said:

MMOs have been "Streamlined" in other words, dumbed down, made small and gameplay cut down. Part of that is reducing classes, reducing graphics needed (one gender classes), reducing skill trees.

Expect more of this not less.

...

Male or female characters have no difference in stats or abilities so having a class locked to either one is not dumbing the game down. The difference is purely visual.

Then again why would you care since you're just looking for a chance to demonize developers.

Quirhid

I pity people who refuse to play characters of the opposite sex. Your loss.

NeverForgetLove

Quirhid said:

I pity people who refuse to play characters of the opposite sex. Your loss.

Its actually the devs loss, cause no money from all the people who are easily satisfied with a simple sex change option for their favorite classes.

Tenkousei

Mario can only be played as an italian plumber! Please devs give me the ability to play as Maria, the spanish business-woman!

/sarcasm

waynejr2

SirLorn said:

This is to all you awesome DEVS.....even if I am going to rant a tad bit, this opener is still sincere.  Being some what of a creative person myself (not comparing to writing code, and designing a game, let alone an IP) I have a lot of respect for what you all do.  

K, that being said, I beg of thee...STOP with the gender locking, and or limited play options, please!  I.E. if you are dead set on your vision, and said vision needs X classes for your vision to be balanced, it is the only option do able in said vision, it's wtf you want, it is your vision.  Then please please don't limit yourself (and US especially) by gender locking these classes!!   

On the subject of 'limited play options' or opinion, if you will, we have moved WAAAAAYYY passed the day when that was the way to develop your classes.  Let's take BDO for example.  Gender locked, limited classes choices.  This IP would have more longevity, IMO, if you were able to mix and match these 'classes' and have both genders.  Now before someone brings up, the ability to add to content releases (new classes \ races) come on, so ALL these races are A sexual?!  

I get the complexities, and or difficulties in actually having a balanced system, the more skill trees, or template possibilities you have in your finished product.   This is almost never right either, but that's no reason to back step into a 'holy trinity' mindset, neither.  

The current trends with Sand-parks isn't going the distance, though.  I am also a firm believer that there are elements that just don't belong if you are making a hybrid.  Especially one more on the sandbox side of the 'scales'.  Thoughts, opinions?  

Is it that your mother never said no to you or that you got everything handed to you?  This generation is weak and can't handle even the smallest disappointments.

Devs please ignore the op.

waynejr2

Tenkousei said:

Mario can only be played as an italian plumber! Please devs give me the ability to play as Maria, the spanish business-woman!

/sarcasm

If this was real, how would you pay 70% of a quarter at the arcade?

Quirhid

NeverForgetLove said:

Quirhid said:

I pity people who refuse to play characters of the opposite sex. Your loss.

Its actually the devs loss, cause no money from all the people who are easily satisfied with a simple sex change option for their favorite classes.

Its not "simple". It takes two sets of everything instead of just one. More if you include the race thing. How do you think assets are made? Do you think an artist just snaps his/her fingers and assets are created instantly?

Pepeq

I picture the coding nightmare that comes with allowing players to have unlimited choices.

I picture the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look on all the players when faced with a skill tree that spans 145 different screens.

I picture the delivery timeline on a game that offers unlimited races and classes.

AnnaTS

I don't know why people moan so much about gender locked classes i see quite a few streamers playing the oppossite gender even when there isn't gender locking it's not a big deal i can think of other things to worry about.

Tenkousei

waynejr2 said:

Tenkousei said:

Mario can only be played as an italian plumber! Please devs give me the ability to play as Maria, the spanish business-woman!

/sarcasm

If this was real, how would you pay 70% of a quarter at the arcade?

You'd figure a spanish business-woman makes more than an italian plumber. Then again ...

It only becomes a problem when maria can't swat the koopas because she's on maternity leave.

(this will be my last comment on the subject, don't feel like getting my arse banned for misogyny)

Kazuhiro

Flyte27 said:

Are there really that many games that have gender lock?

In the US and EU? No, maybe 20% of mmos (at most) do. In Asia? Yeah, something like 80-90% of them do. (Of the 60-70 or so I've tried/read about.)

Your right, it is a cultural thing. Just like how their male and female genders are almost indistinguishable in many of their games. (They all look/dress female for some reason.) And that's only in their games and anime.

Arglebargle

waynejr2 said:

SirLorn said:

This is to all you awesome DEVS.....even if I am going to rant a tad bit, this opener is still sincere.  Being some what of a creative person myself (not comparing to writing code, and designing a game, let alone an IP) I have a lot of respect for what you all do.  

K, that being said, I beg of thee...STOP with the gender locking, and or limited play options, please!  I.E. if you are dead set on your vision, and said vision needs X classes for your vision to be balanced, it is the only option do able in said vision, it's wtf you want, it is your vision.  Then please please don't limit yourself (and US especially) by gender locking these classes!!   

On the subject of 'limited play options' or opinion, if you will, we have moved WAAAAAYYY passed the day when that was the way to develop your classes.  Let's take BDO for example.  Gender locked, limited classes choices.  This IP would have more longevity, IMO, if you were able to mix and match these 'classes' and have both genders.  Now before someone brings up, the ability to add to content releases (new classes \ races) come on, so ALL these races are A sexual?!  

I get the complexities, and or difficulties in actually having a balanced system, the more skill trees, or template possibilities you have in your finished product.   This is almost never right either, but that's no reason to back step into a 'holy trinity' mindset, neither.  

The current trends with Sand-parks isn't going the distance, though.  I am also a firm believer that there are elements that just don't belong if you are making a hybrid.  Especially one more on the sandbox side of the 'scales'.  Thoughts, opinions?  

Is it that your mother never said no to you or that you got everything handed to you?  This generation is weak and can't handle even the smallest disappointments.

Devs please ignore the op.

That's from Cliché 101 class.  Do you have any more advanced cliché design?

Sovrath

Kazuhiro said:

Your right, it is a cultural thing. Just like how their male and female genders are almost indistinguishable in many of their games. (They all look/dress female for some reason.) And that's only in their games and anime.

Do they? Or is their sense of "male/female" different from the west? Or do they see it as a balance between male/female?

The whole reason I play games that aren't from the west or watch movies that aren't from the west is to have an experience that "isn't from the west".

There really isn't a point to changing it in my opinion as that just white washes/homogenizes the whole experience.

Now THAT'S "dumbing down".

Flyte27

Kazuhiro said:

Flyte27 said:

Are there really that many games that have gender lock?

In the US and EU? No, maybe 20% of mmos (at most) do. In Asia? Yeah, something like 80-90% of them do. (Of the 60-70 or so I've tried/read about.)

Your right, it is a cultural thing. Just like how their male and female genders are almost indistinguishable in many of their games. (They all look/dress female for some reason.) And that's only in their games and anime.

I've watched a fair amount of asian movies and TV shows.  Recently it's been Korean shows mostly.  I notice that men wear a certain type of Robe and hat in the Joseon period.  Usually those men are scholars.  The women wear a dress that looks fairly different and don't often wear a hat and if they do it's not the hat the men wear.  In China both men and women appear to wear very simple cloths that look fairly similar in the country.  Mostly pants and shirts.

It's interesting that Asian games are gender locked a lot.  I haven't actually played very many outside of the ones for Nintendo and Playstation.

I really enjoy the style of clothing from the Joseon time period.  I think it looks really nice.  It's fairly similar to the way Japanese people dress IMO.

Octagon7711

I think games start out as a grand idea but along the way become a series of compromises.  With everything that has to work right in a game it's a wonder they get them out at all.  

Dhaenon

I could get behind the cultural difference thing, but I honestly believe it is all about sex appeal. Sex sales. There are MANY men that play female characters for all kinds of reasons. Why bother making something only a portion of your gaming populace will play? Look at TERA. Every new class has been gender locked as female. Mostly a lot of guys play females and a lot of females play females. Saving money, selling sex... brilliant.