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This game looks way too amateurish next to EQ.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,227
    edited March 2016
    Kiyoris said:
    After watching the stream, I think this game is not going anywhere. After years of development, it still looks like something made by a few beginners. The voices in the stream sounded like kids.

    EQ uses professional animators, professional game developers and an in-house dedicated engine, and it shows.

    There is no way this game will take off with these kind of awful graphics and animation.

    If I compare it to EQ, this game looks incredibly amateurish.


    You DO realize this is a pre-alpha build right?

    As far as the voices in the stream sounding like kids "welcome to video games" apparently there is an exuberant youth that permeates some of the players. It is what it is.

    Once the game is actually released then you should make a decision.

    I'm really surprised that none of this is apparent to you.

    edit: nice find by Xatsh you should watch it.
  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613
    I could not care any less about animations and graphics honestly.

    What got me about the stream was quite simple:

    Not even 1 minute in and i ALREADY had the whole EQ feeling and had to rub some tears out of my eyes. I did not even PLAY it myself and it STILL managed to give me more old school EQ feeling then any MMO in the past 12+ years ever did.

    Not even 1 minute and i was sure: This is going to be the real modern EQ. And that is all i ever wanted. I don't want new mechanics. I want a modernized EQ without many changes. Just some tweaks to graphics, UI, playability. And it looks like we will get exactly that.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,583
    It's a bit early to criticize the game. It is not done yet. Work in progress.
    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • NasaNasa Member UncommonPosts: 712
    Why did Fable Legend and Everquest Next got canceled?. They where not FUN to play!
    What can kill the fun?: Bad graphics and/or bad animations.
    I wonder why they didn't go for better animations, even at this stage.
  • ubermutubermut Member UncommonPosts: 270
    edited March 2016
    game(play) looked beautiful.  can't freaking wait.  Might actually buy a founder pack.  My first big MMOs were EQOA and FFXI, both required grouping past lv 10.  Miss that mentality, drivendawn nailed it.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,390
    edited March 2016
    I mentioned this in the other thread on graphics and animations.

    Why are people not comprehending this is EARLY development?
    Well because we have had a massive string of bullshit operations all claiming they are also in early development.
    Truth is those other games were  NOT in early development,just because they tell you they are doesn't mean jack.Those other games,NONE of them improved over any amount of time,you got the finished product when you signed on and i just can't believe that so many don't realize it especially after the snow job has been done hundreds of times by now.

    I do NOT expect to see EQ1 animations or models,i expect to see basically Vanguard 2.0.Now if you still think that is not so good or a bad thing,you better take a closer look at all those other games.I have not seen animations done well since FFXI,everything has been a joke with super fast ADDD syndrome type animations.
     
    In most every single Korean game if an animation needs 50 frames they are making 20 frames,it looks awful to me,i can't even follow the action or animation because it is just a flash on the screen.

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  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,179
    You should see the white boxing phases. There's a reason most companies don't (or didn't used to) show consumers progress on a game before polish has started. You'd think people could understand that, but they don't. Probably never will.
  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,179
    Wizardry said:
    I mentioned this in the other thread on graphics and animations.

    Why are people not comprehending this is EARLY development?
    Well because we have had a massive string of bullshit operations all claiming they are also in early development.
    Truth is those other games were  NOT in early development,just because they tell you they are doesn't mean jack.Those other games,NONE of them improved over any amount of time,you got the finished product when you signed on and i just can't believe that so many don't realize it especially after the snow job has been done hundreds of times by now.
    I think this is the first time I've read, agreed and liked your post. Very true.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited March 2016
    ubermut said:
    game(play) looked beautiful.  can't freaking wait.  Might actually buy a founder pack.  My first big MMOs were EQOA and FFXI, both required grouping past lv 10.  Miss that mentality, drivendawn nailed it.
    I don't think it looked bad, I'm just not seeing anything that stands out about the game-play from much out there at present, some games still effectively use class synergy as well as CC, the mobs fell fast like most modern games (though they say that will be addressed), so there wasn't much in the way of true challenge shown, it was just what any grouped up mob killing experience looked like since I started playing MMORPGs with DAOC. Though with the ease of mobs it looked more like something you'd see today. 

    I agree with many that it's too early to knock it, but I think it's a bit early to praise it as well. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,702
    Interesting they are using Unity

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  • drivendawndrivendawn Member RarePosts: 2,162
    edited March 2016
    Distopia said:
    ubermut said:
    game(play) looked beautiful.  can't freaking wait.  Might actually buy a founder pack.  My first big MMOs were EQOA and FFXI, both required grouping past lv 10.  Miss that mentality, drivendawn nailed it.
    I don't think it looked bad, I'm just not seeing anything that stands out about the game-play from much out there at present, some games still effectively use class synergy as well as CC, the mobs fell fast like most modern games (though they say that will be addressed), so there wasn't much in the way of true challenge shown, it was just what any grouped up mob killing experience looked like since I started playing MMORPGs with DAOC. Though with the ease of mobs it looked more like something you'd see today. 

    I agree with many that it's too early to knock it, but I think it's a bit early to praise it as well. 
    I understand, but keep in mind they had a whole party beating on mobs (unlike today where they would go down just as fast but with a single player) and were rooting extra mobs in place to keep from getting over whelmed. I also noticed a bleed affect as well. Also yes on the OF they stated things aren't completely tuned properly yet. Over all though this is a good step in the right direction and more than what I was expecting to see at this stage.
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Chrisbox said:
    Why would animations have anything to do with it being better than EQ? People who played EQ don't give a rats boner about graphics and since that's their target market they should probably focus on other things to make the game successful. Like DMKano said though I'm sure they haven't gotten around to polishing and what not since its still very early. 
    Well that isn't true. Go to Project 1999, and look at all the people bitch about, how if they changed the graphics to something else they would all quit. 
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,037
    gervaise1 said:
    Key difference: EQ is basically running on empty. Pantheon is about to start.  

    And yes pre-alpha. I have also seen worse betas and e.g. GW1's pre-alpha was very limited. And pretty sure that the characters will have more detailed costumes etc. etc. that the terrain will have textures etc. Will it be good enough? Remains to be seen. Way to early to write it off though. 
    EQ is running on empty due to attrition, not failure.

    GW1 was more of an online ARPG than an MMORPG.  It was more similar to Path of Exile or Diablo III than an MMORPG like EverQuest or Vanguard.

    Pantheon looks like an up-to-date version of Vanguard: Saga or Heroes.  If they chase system requirements like Vanguard did, then they will settle into a niche because the target market of games like WoW and EQ are not enthusiasts.  They're majority casual player bases with high end content for people that are competitive-minded (Raids, Arena, etc.).

    Most of those people aren't going to buy a new PC just to play Pantheon, when they can play WoW and go about their business.

    EQ2 ran into the same issue.  The game is actually amazing, but the client performance makes it a non-starter for a lot of their target market, who can raid in WoW but can't even stand in an EQ town without dipping to low double digit FPS even on High Performance Settings.

    The great thing about MMORPGs moving to consoles it that it completely blows open their potential target numbers as it removes hardware and driver issues from consideration.  The game is designed to run well and you know what kind of hardware every user will be running.

    I am sort of taking a back seat from the genre (setting on WoW) while I wait to see how that pans out...  Cause I am looking forward to seeing if there is any significant movement in that direction.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Distopia said:
    ubermut said:
    game(play) looked beautiful.  can't freaking wait.  Might actually buy a founder pack.  My first big MMOs were EQOA and FFXI, both required grouping past lv 10.  Miss that mentality, drivendawn nailed it.
    I don't think it looked bad, I'm just not seeing anything that stands out about the game-play from much out there at present, some games still effectively use class synergy as well as CC, the mobs fell fast like most modern games (though they say that will be addressed), so there wasn't much in the way of true challenge shown, it was just what any grouped up mob killing experience looked like since I started playing MMORPGs with DAOC. Though with the ease of mobs it looked more like something you'd see today. 

    I agree with many that it's too early to knock it, but I think it's a bit early to praise it as well. 
    I understand, but keep in mind they had a whole party beating on mobs (unlike today where they would go down just as fast but with a single player) and were rooting extra mobs in place to keep from getting over whelmed. I also noticed a bleed affect as well. Also yes on the OF they stated things aren't completely tuned properly yet. Over all though this is a good step in the right direction and more than what I was expecting to see at this stage.
    I mostly agree, although the part about mobs dropping just as fast solo today depends on the context, a good example being TOR, in regular areas yeah that's the case, however in the group oriented areas (which in many cases were large areas of the map), not so much. CC as well synergy very much comes into play in those areas. Another good example would be AOC. Good group synergy was important in many areas in that game. The sad part is it seems many never took part in that content in those games and judge them solely on the story questing they also offer/ed. 


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Xatsh said:
    OP is right if the game launches how it is now, it will turn a ton of people off with the animations. Graphics honestly I did not think were horrible. Not BDO/FFXIV good but more then passable.

    We cannot expect genre breaking graphics and animations on a game without a 150+ million dollar budget. But personally I would rather have a game with less graphics and more dept then a shinny linear shallow pieces of crap the AAA devs been churning out as of late.

    This is not me white knighting Pantheon, I agree it has a ways to go. But people need to stop thinking alpha/beta or this is case a development pre-alpha build is the game at launch.

    WoW, EQ, GW, FFXIV all look significantly worse in early stages then in launch. Honestly in worse ways then this game did today. Anyone who has tested games in very very early states can attest to this.

    I mean look how EQ looked in Pre-alpha. This does not look much like the game you have in your post op... I mean pre-alpha = launch right? Obviously not. Pantheon might end up being crap, but what we seen today shows alot of promiss, have to see where Brad and everyone takes the game at the end.

    Enjoy the Pre-alpha footage of EQ and tell me pre-alpha's = launch.


    AS for them seeming like kids in the stream... They sound more like people having fun in the game to me. Sounds more like a group on my vent from back in the early days.
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  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Kiyoris said:
    After watching the stream, I think this game is not going anywhere. After years of development, it still looks like something made by a few beginners. The voices in the stream sounded like kids.

    EQ uses professional animators, professional game developers and an in-house dedicated engine, and it shows.

    There is no way this game will take off with these kind of awful graphics and animation.

    If I compare it to EQ, this game looks incredibly amateurish.


    Sorry but I disagree, I know lots who were very happy with what they saw yesterday.

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • ThebeastttThebeasttt Member RarePosts: 1,130
    There was nothing amazing about EQ2, it was a downgrade in every way except graphics.

    Two starting cities, instant teleports everywhere, less freedom, shared death penalties, non stop button spam, dumbed down mechanics, half the classes were redundant, clay fighter models, boring soulbound loot pinata, teamwork unnecessary, zero immersion, bad attempts to copy wow after launch, very few weapon models and the list goes on. EQ2 was not some misunderstood gem, it was steaming garbage.
  • AwDiddumsAwDiddums Member UncommonPosts: 416
    You've got the sensible ppl who actually listened to the stream and heard the words that this is Pre-Alpha, and then you've got the other group of ppl who have totally ignored the stream and just gone for a comparison, wonders never cease.

    As is I'd be very happy to play this game, from the stream I watched I found it to be a game world that seems both appealing and interesting to wander around and fight in.
    I look forward to the finished product.
  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,075
    You can't do the "its pre-alpha, early development" routine if you also think the game will launch in 2017. The game looks extremely rough for an mmorpg that will launch in less than two years.

    Its not early development if you have gone past year two on a four year project.
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Kiyoris said:
    After watching the stream, I think this game is not going anywhere. After years of development, it still looks like something made by a few beginners. The voices in the stream sounded like kids.

    EQ uses professional animators, professional game developers and an in-house dedicated engine, and it shows.

    There is no way this game will take off with these kind of awful graphics and animation.

    If I compare it to EQ, this game looks incredibly amateurish.


    The graphics are sad I agree.
     
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,037
    There was nothing amazing about EQ2, it was a downgrade in every way except graphics.

    Two starting cities, instant teleports everywhere, less freedom, shared death penalties, non stop button spam, dumbed down mechanics, half the classes were redundant, clay fighter models, boring soulbound loot pinata, teamwork unnecessary, zero immersion, bad attempts to copy wow after launch, very few weapon models and the list goes on. EQ2 was not some misunderstood gem, it was steaming garbage.
    1.  Nothing wrong with 2 starting cities.

    2.  Nothing wrong with Instant Teleports.  Beats wasting an hour of your real life time going from point A to point B.  Sorry, but it's an MMORPG, not real life.  It's a simulation, but that doesn't mean it has to take as much time to go from Neriak to FP as it takes to go from Philadelphia to Washington, D.C. via Amtrak...

    3.  EQ was button spam as well.  All skills were on buttons or Macros.  What is you point?

    4.  The classes weren't redundant, but having so many classes does make balance harder.

    5.  Fighter Models is completely subjective.

    6.  The game is more immersive than WoW, unless you're just speeding past things (I say this as a current WoW player).

    7.  Soulbound Loot Piñata?  They learned how bad it is to have everything traceable with early EQ.  This is why the Lore and NO DROP tags were added.  Also, games like Lineage II display clearly why it's a bad idea to have everything in the game traceable.  It also creates a massive market for RMTers (i.e. botters) to infect and destroy your game (see Blade and Soul, Lineage II).

    8.  Weapon Models were fine.  Did you play early WoW, by chance?  Lol.

    EQ2 wasn't misunderstood, it was just badly executed.  There were way too many hands in the cookie jar when they created that game.  The development team should have gone for the less is more approach.

    And the graphics of EQ2 actually turned out to be a huge issue as the engine performs pretty horribly even on modern equipment.  You need a super computer to max that game out, and even then it is horribly efficient.

    EQ1 runs worse than WoW on my PC, with lower settings.  That's how terrible SOE's graphics engines are (and have always been).

    EQ2 definitely required teamwork.  There were Heroic MOBs all over and there is the concept of solo MOBs and linked encounters.  There was more emphasis on dungeon crawling than WoW early on.

    The game was WoW-ified post launched.  What game released since then wasn't?  We're getting full on WoW clones these days, so they were doing nothing but going where the market (and players) were going.

    The release was botched.  The overemphasis on quest leveling was bad and that's part of the reason why so many EQ players didn't go over - apart from he fact that EQ2 wouldn't run above 20FPS on their computers.  Age of Conan runs better on my Windows Laptop (with a good AMD APU from Late 2013) than EQ2.  Imagine back in 2005/5 when people still had P4s with AGP 4-8x graphics cards probably running EQ on Radeon 92xx - 9550s (and similar Nvidia cards)...
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,248
    Recore said:
    The game just looked bad and I am not talking just about the graphics.
    I also think that the elements that everyone seems to be tripping over themselves to praise weren't all that impressive.  Yes, it was 'pre-alpha' character graphics with shoddy animation and lack of detail set against a beautifully rendered world.  There were two big 'don't play' elements for me.
    • The walking 'bobble' effect has got to go, or despite any brilliant or ground-breaking graphics elements they might add before launch, I won't be in this game.  It looked like the character 'camera' moved up and down about a foot each and every step.  Minimize this, and it's much better off.
    • The 'mouse-look' camera.  I really don't like these, and it was on display early in the video, showing a character moving in one direction while looking in a 360 degree arc.  That's beyond the human ability (about 280 degrees, including twisting the neck and back, not including peripheral vision), and immediately blows any semblance of immersion out of the water for me.  I want to feel like a person in this world, not a camera.

    Other than these two elements (which should be easily correctable), the actual game-play was nothing I haven't seen before.  It was difficult to see which character was healing, or was the injured character using some form of self-healing (potions, spells, etc.).  There was an emphasis on graphic images of spells (floating shields, fire spurts and the like), as is in every MMORPG, but nothing new.

    Playing in a LAN-type environment, with everyone in the same room, eliminates any need to rely on the computers to communicate between players.  How does the game work with text-based chat, or VOIP?  Will the VOIP be in-game, or will it be necessary to use third party software (Team Speak and the like) to do the communication?

    Really, if I want this exact game play, I can play EQ1 right now.

    (And if this is really 'pre-alpha' character graphics and animations, why would they bother to animate dances?  It's a suspiciously wasteful thing to do for 'placeholder' graphics.)

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,227
    Shaigh said:
    You can't do the "its pre-alpha, early development" routine if you also think the game will launch in 2017. The game looks extremely rough for an mmorpg that will launch in less than two years.

    Its not early development if you have gone past year two on a four year project.
    Actually in this case you can.

    You have to think a bit and understand that this is not one of those AAA games where they say "pre-alpha" and it looks like it's can launch (even though it can't) or that it's a AAA game studio that is going to seriously ramp up all the efforts to polish everything to a perfect AAA shine.

    If players can't understand that this will be an indy game, that it has a small team and that its final project will only be released NOT looking like a AAA game then they are in a good place.

    If players think that this game is going to look and feel like a AAA game once released then they just don't understand what's going on here.
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Interesting they are using Unity
    It's silly to criticize pre-alpha graphics/animations and such; the Unity engine thing, on the other hand, does make me wonder a bit more.

    It's not just Pantheon, there are a couple other MMOs in-dev. atm that are using Unity.  Unity is a great engine, but everyone knows it's not really built for MMO style designs.  So, I do wonder why they chose it.
    I can only assume it's just simply for ease-of-use -- Unity is incredibly user-friendly.  Regardless, I wonder how much it's going to hold some of these games back.

    I really wish we had an actual released MMO built on Unity to see a live example.
  • drivendawndrivendawn Member RarePosts: 2,162
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    ubermut said:
    game(play) looked beautiful.  can't freaking wait.  Might actually buy a founder pack.  My first big MMOs were EQOA and FFXI, both required grouping past lv 10.  Miss that mentality, drivendawn nailed it.
    I don't think it looked bad, I'm just not seeing anything that stands out about the game-play from much out there at present, some games still effectively use class synergy as well as CC, the mobs fell fast like most modern games (though they say that will be addressed), so there wasn't much in the way of true challenge shown, it was just what any grouped up mob killing experience looked like since I started playing MMORPGs with DAOC. Though with the ease of mobs it looked more like something you'd see today. 

    I agree with many that it's too early to knock it, but I think it's a bit early to praise it as well. 
    I understand, but keep in mind they had a whole party beating on mobs (unlike today where they would go down just as fast but with a single player) and were rooting extra mobs in place to keep from getting over whelmed. I also noticed a bleed affect as well. Also yes on the OF they stated things aren't completely tuned properly yet. Over all though this is a good step in the right direction and more than what I was expecting to see at this stage.
    I mostly agree, although the part about mobs dropping just as fast solo today depends on the context, a good example being TOR, in regular areas yeah that's the case, however in the group oriented areas (which in many cases were large areas of the map), not so much. CC as well synergy very much comes into play in those areas. Another good example would be AOC. Good group synergy was important in many areas in that game. The sad part is it seems many never took part in that content in those games and judge them solely on the story questing they also offer/ed. 


    This is true but this is everywhere not just special areas and I am betting that that dungeons and raids will be even more so.
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