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Being an over the top fan

Now is a good time to jump in on being " over the top and optimistic ".

My view on Pantheon being the second coming:

Well yes and no. It's a long awaited time.  We haven't had an mmo is a LONG Time.  My realistic view is Pantheon will have it's share of problems, I actually think many problems.  I'm actually expecting it to be broken in the beginning in many ways.  I think developers will take their time for release to keep them at a low because of problems in the past with Vanguard.  But still, I'm expecting many bugs and quarks.  Just being realistic. 

Both the Everquest and Vanguard series were both charming and off in texture, animation, coding and graphics. This is no secret.  So much controversy with both.  Many people absolutely loved them or absolutely hated the style of how they were made.  I would even go as far as saying Blizzard moped the floor a few times over with their World of Warcraft, strictly because of the coding and the general way Everquest and Vanguard was put together.


But, and this is important.

Everquest and Vanguard were true mmos, and deeply immersive.

The fans that had the ability to look beyond hard core quirks and caring only about game play, and community.  Ignoring crashes and strange system requirements that didn't make sense on how it ran fine on cheap computers and often poorly on expensive ones, enjoyed them for what they were, an mmo. 

But on the other hand you had the low tolerance people that need perfection went the World of Warcraft way.  This group of player exceeded the other group, and WOW took first place in the end.  Just being realistic.  


Technically wise, people don't always change in ways of thinking.  They may advance over time ( after all it's now 2016 ) but the core mindset is still their.  So yes, I have to be brutally honest.  This game will have bugs and quirks.

Over the top and optimistic ? Yes and no !........But I can say this...........Pantheon is an mmo !!!!!!!......It's been a long time.




To wrap things up before work, I'll leave you this quote from a fan of Black Desert Online sticking up for his rights on why the game is so good to a guy asking what's the attraction.

< Quote >

Im going to guess you havent playedthe game. BDO is very much a sandbox Hire workers to do your crafting/gathering, investing in all kinds of things nodes towns etc, Horse breeding, pet (albeit you have to pay real money for them) breeding, action Combat, different kinds of EXP, a NPC friendship system and dozens of other things to do and learn. You should play the game and then come back and think about your post

< Un Quote >

How is this an mmo ?.......It sounds like a solo game that you have to log online to play !

Comments

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    This is what people do not get about MMOs.  BDO is nothing more than a glorified single player game that you have to log online to play.  Yet they can go and buy a single player game like Dragon Age and well play it without ever being online.  That is what MMO players have become and its because how many MMOS are out there.

    At least I am starting to have Hope for Pantheon because it pushes grouping and reliance on other players.
  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    I fully expect Pantheon to not only be as buggy as one would expect in the beginning but start out falling short on content as well. I just really hope they make the game play and presentation better than previous games.
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 599
    edited March 2016
    Sandboxes can have solo and group content, just like MMORPG's. Everquest had solo content, despite being strongly group-based. The main difference between sandboxes and traditional MMORPGs is the players make more of the content, so have a larger say what occurs in the environment. Quests fall in importance, as does combat, since more time is taken up by (creatively) building or changing content. Grouping doesn't necessarily fall out of priority, since building things with other players is generally faster and more enjoyable. However, like MMORPGs, sandbox MMO's can favor solo-play over group-play. I think most MMO's are in fact favoring solo-play.

    I play Wurm Online and it wavers inbetween solo-play and grouping. You obviously can build things faster with other players and often do trading with them and chat. There're many advantages to play with others. It's evne more true in PvP. BUT grouping isn't required. You can still play alone, it's just much slower and not as social. In Everquest, if you were a warrior or a pure class, it was much harder to solo your way up and still enjoy it. But in Wurm Online skill gain is so low you don't really play it to reach the top. Still for a warrior in Everquest, especially, grouping was a necessity. There were many things in Everquest--in the higher levels--you could not do alone. Everquest was more group-oriented than Wurm Online. And I imagine it was more group-oriented than the vast majority of existing MMORPGs.

    Another distinction I make with Wurm Online is it has less hand holding. That's a thing which bothers me in MMO's and  However, less hand holding might tend to favor group-play. For example, if the game doesn't show you where you're on the map, another player might be able to tell you where you're or lead you. For example, if you know the way to a city and another playre doesn't, you can lead them. The lack of hand holding enabled you to be helpful. Information limits can breed teamwork, just like interdependencies in classes.

    Being helpful to another player is one of the most enjoyable things in my memory. The last time I played Wurm Online, I was helping someone over a couple week period. In Everquest, I loved to be able to track now and then for someone or a group or help someone get somewhere or give them a passing buff. It's all the same. The gift of giving goes both ways.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,200
    danwest58 said:
    This is what people do not get about MMOs.  BDO is nothing more than a glorified single player game that you have to log online to play.  Yet they can go and buy a single player game like Dragon Age and well play it without ever being online.  That is what MMO players have become and its because how many MMOS are out there.

    At least I am starting to have Hope for Pantheon because it pushes grouping and reliance on other players.
    er, I've pretty much grouped for most of my time in BDO. I've grouped more in BDO than I have in any game this past year.

    And I'm more of a solo player. I"m guessing you haven't played it.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Yes PVP games are like single player games.... 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AngryElfAngryElf Member UncommonPosts: 168
    edited March 2016
    Sovrath said:
    danwest58 said:
    This is what people do not get about MMOs.  BDO is nothing more than a glorified single player game that you have to log online to play.  Yet they can go and buy a single player game like Dragon Age and well play it without ever being online.  That is what MMO players have become and its because how many MMOS are out there.

    At least I am starting to have Hope for Pantheon because it pushes grouping and reliance on other players.
    er, I've pretty much grouped for most of my time in BDO. I've grouped more in BDO than I have in any game this past year.

    And I'm more of a solo player. I"m guessing you haven't played it.

    I assume they are referring to to the PVE aspect, which is quite obvious.  @Distopia ;PvP is clearly multi-player.  The OP is merely stating an example of many newer games having a solo-like feel when trying to enjoy PvE content.  Most games coming out now are PvP games with some PvE fodder to check the box.  

    Games like Pantheon (hopefully, but not holding my breath) may return some of the MMO feel to PvE.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,200
    edited March 2016
    AngryElf said:
    Sovrath said:
    danwest58 said:
    This is what people do not get about MMOs.  BDO is nothing more than a glorified single player game that you have to log online to play.  Yet they can go and buy a single player game like Dragon Age and well play it without ever being online.  That is what MMO players have become and its because how many MMOS are out there.

    At least I am starting to have Hope for Pantheon because it pushes grouping and reliance on other players.
    er, I've pretty much grouped for most of my time in BDO. I've grouped more in BDO than I have in any game this past year.

    And I'm more of a solo player. I"m guessing you haven't played it.

    I assume they are referring to to the PVE aspect, which is quite obvious.  @Distopia ;PvP is clearly multi-player.  The OP is merely stating an example of many newer games having a solo-like feel when trying to enjoy PvE content.  Most games coming out now are PvP games with some PvE fodder to check the box.  
    I'm under 45 so I was referring to the pve aspects.

    edit: I'll add I got 40 and 41 and half toward 42 in group. Was a blast.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    AngryElf said:
    Sovrath said:
    danwest58 said:
    This is what people do not get about MMOs.  BDO is nothing more than a glorified single player game that you have to log online to play.  Yet they can go and buy a single player game like Dragon Age and well play it without ever being online.  That is what MMO players have become and its because how many MMOS are out there.

    At least I am starting to have Hope for Pantheon because it pushes grouping and reliance on other players.
    er, I've pretty much grouped for most of my time in BDO. I've grouped more in BDO than I have in any game this past year.

    And I'm more of a solo player. I"m guessing you haven't played it.

    I assume they are referring to to the PVE aspect, which is quite obvious.  @Distopia ;PvP is clearly multi-player.  The OP is merely stating an example of many newer games having a solo-like feel when trying to enjoy PvE content.  Most games coming out now are PvP games with some PvE fodder to check the box.  

    Games like Pantheon (hopefully, but not holding my breath) may return some of the MMO feel to PvE.
    I guess that would make SWG a single player games as well, as I always approached the PVE content (skill leveling) solo. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AngryElfAngryElf Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Distopia said:
    AngryElf said:
    Sovrath said:
    danwest58 said:
    This is what people do not get about MMOs.  BDO is nothing more than a glorified single player game that you have to log online to play.  Yet they can go and buy a single player game like Dragon Age and well play it without ever being online.  That is what MMO players have become and its because how many MMOS are out there.

    At least I am starting to have Hope for Pantheon because it pushes grouping and reliance on other players.
    er, I've pretty much grouped for most of my time in BDO. I've grouped more in BDO than I have in any game this past year.

    And I'm more of a solo player. I"m guessing you haven't played it.

    I assume they are referring to to the PVE aspect, which is quite obvious.  @Distopia ;PvP is clearly multi-player.  The OP is merely stating an example of many newer games having a solo-like feel when trying to enjoy PvE content.  Most games coming out now are PvP games with some PvE fodder to check the box.  

    Games like Pantheon (hopefully, but not holding my breath) may return some of the MMO feel to PvE.
    I guess that would make SWG a single player games as well, as I always approached the PVE content (skill leveling) solo. 

    Never labeled anything a single player game, but I'll bite.  If you choose to approach PvE content solo, that's your choice.  The point is that a lot, if not the vast majority, of PvE content in newer games can be done solo.  This leads to a degradation in the PvE community and steers more towards a PvP aspect to maintain an MMO feel.  

    Obviously some games and communities function differently than others.  And if a player has a certain guild or group they play with regularly, then they might not recognize the difference.  The point is that games like EQ were very group-dependent on everything from low-tier gear to crafting items to questing.  The OP is hoping Pantheon can reclaim that old-gen feel.  
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    AngryElf said:
    Distopia said:
    AngryElf said:
    Sovrath said:
    danwest58 said:
    This is what people do not get about MMOs.  BDO is nothing more than a glorified single player game that you have to log online to play.  Yet they can go and buy a single player game like Dragon Age and well play it without ever being online.  That is what MMO players have become and its because how many MMOS are out there.

    At least I am starting to have Hope for Pantheon because it pushes grouping and reliance on other players.
    er, I've pretty much grouped for most of my time in BDO. I've grouped more in BDO than I have in any game this past year.

    And I'm more of a solo player. I"m guessing you haven't played it.

    I assume they are referring to to the PVE aspect, which is quite obvious.  @Distopia ;PvP is clearly multi-player.  The OP is merely stating an example of many newer games having a solo-like feel when trying to enjoy PvE content.  Most games coming out now are PvP games with some PvE fodder to check the box.  

    Games like Pantheon (hopefully, but not holding my breath) may return some of the MMO feel to PvE.
    I guess that would make SWG a single player games as well, as I always approached the PVE content (skill leveling) solo. 

    Never labeled anything a single player game, but I'll bite.  If you choose to approach PvE content solo, that's your choice.  The point is that a lot, if not the vast majority, of PvE content in newer games can be done solo.  This leads to a degradation in the PvE community and steers more towards a PvP aspect to maintain an MMO feel.  

    Obviously some games and communities function differently than others.  And if a player has a certain guild or group they play with regularly, then they might not recognize the difference.  The point is that games like EQ were very group-dependent on everything from low-tier gear to crafting items to questing.  The OP is hoping Pantheon can reclaim that old-gen feel.  
    I didn't say you did, I was just saying that toward your assessment of what the op was saying. Here's my take, as usual the OP is lost on what actually made old MMO's feel like old MMO's (if you look at his post history you will find out why (hint he started with WOW). SO as usual he's parroting crap he's heard around here as gospel, yet really doesn't get exactly what you pointed out in your post. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,574

    OK, Ill make a long story short.


    - 90% of mmos are not mmos.

    - 10% that are, have been butchered to make extra money then put on auto pilot.

    - Now we don't have an mmo at all with the exception of EVE and a few indie games.

    - Soon will have Pantheon that is being developed as an mmo.  I believe it will be a quality mmo, but my opinion is that it will have bugs and quirks.  I believe will have a lot of complaining about this, but players will persevere because It's a long awaited mmo.

    Some say it's for a niche group.  I think it will be far larger than that, if the quality is there.  If I'm wrong and we have the quality anyway, it will attract very close to everyone soon after. 

    Unlike SOE without stockholders and pressure, I hope developers fix bugs and quirks instead of moving forward with expansions.

    - We also have Saga of Lucimia and Project Gorgon. I put my money on Pantheon.  However I hope they all do good.

    - And yes, I found my first mmo around 2005.  It was World of Warcraft........ Sue me :)



    Another quote from Black Desert Online forums :

    < quote >

    The mmorpg genre have a future and BDO is here to prove it

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