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Star Citizen - Development Updates

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  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 562
    gervaise1 said:
    I totally understand that, it's just that I find that it goes directly against the idea of expanding the scope that they promoted years ago.
    The current scope is as described by the core and stretched goals - which haven't changed in some time. And the stretched goals were a part of that expanded scope.

    Doesn't mean that in the future - as a minimum after it has launched - there couldn't be further scope expansion. Surely though you are not suggesting they start introducing new goals? Pretty sure if they did you would have something negative to say.

    Oh well. Dammed if they don't; dammed if they do in some peoples eyes it seems.
    I'm not suggesting they introduce new goals, I'm saying they're cutting features as development struggles forward.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    edited January 2018
    If the design changes it changes. If it doesn't it doesn't.

    It's also very heavily driven by feedback, if the strong opinion of the backers is that there must be more persistence on the stolen ships as originally intended, then we will see if they go try to meet that, if not, then it is as it is.

    There are legitimate reasons of why the design is as it is, it's not a conspiracy from the evil CIG against its backers; but it's something that for me can clearly meet somewhere in the middle to attend to the original design.

    I'm not suggesting they introduce new goals, I'm saying they're cutting features as development struggles forward.
    They are not.

    The how long a stolen ship lasts is not the feature, it's one of the details of the feature, being the feature the ability to capture (steal) the ship itself.

    rpmcmurphyPingu2012
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    edited January 2018
    One rather interesting point about that stolen ships:

    "It may sound annoying, but what other games have showed us (eve, elite dangerous) is that if you let players get away with it, nearly 100% of them want to be the "space pirates." A game where everyone is the pirate means that they quickly run out of prey (as EVE did and had to start f2p, and in ED just means not many people are playing in open). Supporting that kind of play just leads to everyone playing that way.

    Being a space pirate is enough fun on its own, without adding ridiculous incentives like making it the best way to get ships or make money. Balancing the crime and punishment system is something EVE and Elite struggled with (to the point of failing, I would say). Star citizen is going to have to do a better job than both of them, and this may be a step in the right direction. We will see."


    It's actually true I haven't thoughtk of it that way, when it comes to balancing out playerbase something like this might overcome the rest of the game and most people would go the piracy route, it's indeed done of the most frustrating things about balance because "nothing can be that worth it".

    ErillionBabuinixPingu2012
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,957
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?

    Well, guess that's just par for the course in the world of Star Citizen.   No telling what neutered product it will eventually become.  But it will look pretty.....
    LeoTolstoyVrikaScotchUpTiamatRoarrpmcmurphyMaxBaconOctagon7711Odeezee

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,236
    Most likely a WORKING product.


    Have fun 
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,499
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?

    Well, guess that's just par for the course in the world of Star Citizen.   No telling what neutered product it will eventually become.  But it will look pretty.....

    The critics, the detractors and the haters have asked many times over the years about how CIG will combat ship fraud etc, it was a potential minefield and the answer from the whiteknights has always been that CIG have the best minds in the industry working on this game, that all you need is faith and trust in Christ Roberts yadda yadda yadda.

    Now they're making excuses for why it was a bad idea in the first place and why the best minds in the industry cannot do what they claimed they could do etc.

    Always funny watching the backpedalling.
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    CIG simplifies yet another game mechanic.
    I'm sure everyone was very very surprised :expressionless:
    Odeezee

    ..Cake..

  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 562
    MaxBacon said:


    The how long a stolen ship lasts is not the feature, it's one of the details of the feature, being the feature the ability to capture (steal) the ship itself.

    I think you just outdid yourself with that one, a new depth has been reached, gratz!

    sgelKefoMaxBacon
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,472
    Seems that the armchair lawyer's week is gone, so it's back to armchair developer week :D

    If only there were space games even remotely similar to the depth and complexity Star Citizen is doing so their devs could take notes...

    Trailblazing video-games is a wonderful thing indeed.
    Odeezee
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    edited January 2018
    I think you just outdid yourself with that one, a new depth has been reached, gratz!
    Not at all, you are talking about them cutting features (like this even height to the ones they continued to add), yet, this is simply the details involving the feature that is the ability to steal the ships.

    It was now explained further here:

    "I don't see anything stated conflicts with anything in the Insurance FAQ. We are talking about the very same UEE-bonded insurance mentioned in the FAQ. As stated, the insurance will not transfer to a stolen ship, so you cannot use it to reclaim the ship. As for this section: "You will be able to fly a “hot” ship to the less savory parts of the Star Citizen universe, where you will probably be able to land and may be able to purchase a fake hull id code..." that is still the case. Currently, it is "probably" possible to land and it "may" be possible to buy a fake ID code. These answers won't be known in a more definitive manner until such time as it comes to design and develop those systems for those "less savory" parts of the Star Citizen universe, and how those systems have to interact with every other game system available at that time."



    It's not about the game devs going on a cutting features out, yet about the normal design process as it fleshes out. In one side there will be features cut/changed, in the other new features are added.  (everything that the design expanded upon when they now did PG planets is proof of that)


    rpmcmurphy said:
    The critics, the detractors and the haters have asked many times over the years about how CIG will combat ship fraud etc, it was a potential minefield and the answer from the whiteknights has always been that CIG have the best minds in the industry working on this game, that all you need is faith and trust in Christ Roberts yadda yadda yadda.

    Now they're making excuses for why it was a bad idea in the first place and why the best minds in the industry cannot do what they claimed they could do etc.

    Always funny watching the backpedalling.
    If it is about me you're barking at the wrong door. I always wondered about the same insurance fraud as the biggest challenge of something like this, as well, never been in favor of a stolen ship being ever secured (insured), but I don't think it is a bad idea to allow those ships to persist until destruction.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    edited January 2018
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?
    Space piracy is part of SC, such reality-bending hyperbole...

    If stolen ships can't persist until destruction as originally intended, it does not impact the fact you can Steal, you can Sell the ship you steal, you can Board and loot, you can Destroy and Salvage, and any other features that are part of such design of what space piracy in SC is (that go up to piracy missions, smuggling, interdiction play, bases, etc...)
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,957
    Babuinix said:
    Seems that the armchair lawyer's week is gone, so it's back to armchair developer week :D

    If only there were space games even remotely similar to the depth and complexity Star Citizen is doing so their devs could take notes...

    Trailblazing video-games is a wonderful thing indeed.
    Stealing other peoples stuff and using it is not a nebulous and mysterious concept unfathomable to those of lesser genius than the Great Roberts.

    This was an obvious issue from very early on.  Didn't stop them from bloviating on and on about the space piracy concept as part of the games' strong attraction.

    Not very immersive to have the ship you just captured vanish at disconnect or log out.   Undercuts a promoted aspect of gameplay.   Doesn't surprise me that when faced with a difficult issue, CIG just decided to cut bait.  Expect more of the same.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    edited January 2018
    Arglebargle said:
    Didn't stop them from bloviating on and on about the space piracy concept as part of the games' strong attraction.
    And it shall continue being so.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,957
    edited January 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?
    Space piracy is part of SC, such reality-bending hyperbole...

    If stolen ships can't persist until destruction as originally intended, it does not impact the fact you can Steal, you can Sell the ship you steal, you can Board and loot, you can Destroy and Salvage, and any other features that are part of such design of what space piracy in SC is (that go up to piracy missions, smuggling, interdiction play, bases, etc...)
    Pretty funny to see you all backpedal furiously on this.    It was an obvious issue, and rather than go with the mechanic, or figure out an innovative method of handling it, CIG just decided stolen ships go *poof*.   That's really an immersive open world feature.  ;(   


    Better have your supply chain all set up, if you want to sell your snagged ship before a disconnect or logout.   No naughty fleet building for you!

    And their response to the issue?   'We'll fix it in post....'   Good luck with that.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    edited January 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?
    Space piracy is part of SC, such reality-bending hyperbole...

    If stolen ships can't persist until destruction as originally intended, it does not impact the fact you can Steal, you can Sell the ship you steal, you can Board and loot, you can Destroy and Salvage, and any other features that are part of such design of what space piracy in SC is (that go up to piracy missions, smuggling, interdiction play, bases, etc...)
    Pretty funny to see you all backpedal furiously on this.    It was an obvious issue, and rather than go with the mechanic, or figure out an innovative method of handling it, CIG just decided stolen ships go *poof*.   That's really an immersive open world feature.  ;(   


    Better have your supply chain all set up, if you want to sell your snagged ship before a disconnect or logout.   No naughty fleet building for you!

    And their response to the issue?   'We'll fix it in post....'   Good luck with that.
    What backpedaling is there? I always considered the ability to keep the ships you steal an issue with exploitation, such as a way to generate ships tricking insurance claims on a really complex way to even detect what is legit and what isn't. That said, I do prefer that stolen ships persist until they get destroyed, it isn't a "black and white" approach as they seem to put I'd say.

    The piracy career is very much there simply because it is much more than being able to keep forever a ship you have stolen.

    Piracy is usually put in game as "the bad players" (discouraged play), when SC wants to give gameplay to such career there's no way that only the very core of the design is going to be a long-term struggle to achieve.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    rpmcmurphy
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited January 2018
    Whether or not CiG lied about it won't change how this crushed the dreams of quite a few long time backers.  Again, this is made quite obvious just by browsing the spectrum thread.

    But still, just for the heck of it, from SomethingJones at the SA forums:


    Jared Huckaby said that all of this info was out at the end of November. LET'S HAVE A LOOK SHALL WE. Hmm, I wonder is there anything hidden at the end of this video entitled "Cargo & Shopping"?


    Subscriber's Town Hall - Cargo & Shopping
    Nov 21 2017

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS27ZLZDhO8

    @49:30



    Jared Huckaby:
    This question has come up a couple times, 'Is there such a thing as legal ownership of cargo in 3.0?'

    Star Citizen Dev:
    Ok, ok... so... every now and then I read stuff on this and... it's partly my fault but... HAHA! Well, ok... so I did on AtV haha...

    But... so yeah... there's... there's... technically like LEGAL and PHYSICAL ownership and this has to do with the way that the GAME, ah... TRACKS and... and... and... works with providing PERSISTENT DATA, so... and also... so... SLIGHTLY affecting criminality, so... if you LEGALLY own it that means you BOUGHT it or the game gave it to you for some, like, explicit reason, so like if I BOUGHT something at a COMMODITY KIOSK, like I legally own that, or if I bought some SHIP in the game I legally own it

    However, if I have, say, a NOX that's in the back of my ship, I LEGALLY own it but then WILL comes in the back, sneaks in, picks up the NOX, puts it in HIS Starfarer or whatever... well now he PHYSICALLY owns it even though I LEGALLY own it

    So what that means is certain GAMEPLAY BEHAVIOURS that will be BLOCKED depending on that, so...

    Say I go to the AESOP terminal and I want to spawn a ship. Do I physically own the ship? Do I own this NOX? Physically? NO. I can't spawn it. OK. But maybe HE wants to claim INSURANCE on this NOX... he CAN'T because he doesn't LEGALLY own it.

    So it's just a way of understanding the, um... OWNERSHIP to in... to INFORM other gameplay systems.




    Jared Huckaby:
    So, in 3.0... just piggybacking on that... I spawn a NOX, I spawn a FREELANCER, I put the NOX inside of my FREELANCER, I despawn the FREELANCER, I log out, but when I... when I come back and I spawn the FREELANCER it will have the NOX inside the cargo hold.

    Star Citizen Dev:
    Yes

    Jared Huckaby:
    Ok. Now I spawn a NOX. I get off of it. WILL takes my NOX, puts it into his FREELANCER, despawns the ship, logs out...

    Star Citizen Dev:
    It'll still be there. It needs more QA but A-HAHAHA! But yes.



    Jared Huckaby:
    Ok... ok... ok... so... so HE logs out, ah... now... now... now I wanna fly my NOX, what options are available to me at this point?

    Star Citizen Dev:
    Ah... it will show it as... NOT AVAILABLE... because it's not PHYSICALLY in your possession and it's not at your LOCATION... you can't spawn it... you can still claim INSURANCE on it, you can ALWAYS claim insurance on it... HE has access to that ship and... if... next time he spawns a ship he'll have that ship, he can't claim INSURANCE on it and if he parks it out somewhere else, and then LOGS OFF... because he doesn't LEGALLY own it, next time he logs in he won't have it any more.

    And he won't be able to spawn it EVER at an AESOP terminal because he doesn't LEGALLY own it.

    Jared Huckaby:
    Ok so... so... so WILL can't spawn it, if it bel... if WILL... has it BLOWN UP that's it...

    Star Citizen Dev:
    IT'S GONE, yes.

    Jared Huckaby:
    So if WILL has it in the back of his FREELANCER and he has his insurance claim... in theory there's TWO NOXES

    Star Citizen Dev:
    There's two NOXES, yes

    Jared Huckaby:
    But only ONE is going to live on to MATURITY, the other ones life... it's DAYS ARE NUMBERED
  • ArillixArillix Member UncommonPosts: 88
    Why would I want ownership of a stolen ship in the first place as an outlaws life style will be very costly as it is.
    Far, far more fun and insidious to park a stolen ship on an obscure moon, planet, or asteroid.
    Deep in Vanduul space, or worse in a undiscovered system that no one else has found, strip it let all manner of fauna to move in, and dare the true owners to find it.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    Arillix said:
    Why would I want ownership of a stolen ship in the first place as an outlaws life style will be very costly as it is.
    I would agree the ownership would by nature be cut from the large gameplay, landing zones, etc.. unless we talk pirate zones, as the logical nature of it. So the attraction of it is understandable but clearly not meant as the way to build your ship fleet, yet a profitable in-game "career".

    For me the main thing would indeed be selling the stolen ship, raiding its loot, selling it for scrap/etc, or just destroy a ship and salvage it, that seems to be proper profitable play.
  • RouzukiRouzuki Member UncommonPosts: 66
    Dev team should have just said "This just in: the Star Citizen universe has invented inter stellar Lo-Jack". 
  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 562


    This look awesome, I can't wait!
    Erillion
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    edited January 2018
    This look awesome, I can't wait!
    Go login and play it right now, it's there! ;)

    Nyx was moved from the asteroid field to be on a planetoid instead, yes, Delamar.

    The fun bit is how that shows how things have grown, in that footage it went from a level map with a skybox and background scenario (like Arccorp), where the landing was "on-rails", to something physically placed on a planet fully seamless with the rest of the game world.
    ErillionBabuinix
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,472
    I remember seeing that video and telling my mate that no way we would be able to land seamless on planets with that kind of quality and detail...

    Glad to de proven wrong.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322


    Quick resume over the last Q&A, pretty much:
    • Group gameplay will revolve around the service beacon backend they're working on. (ability for players to create missions, services, contracts, etc...)

    • Avenger re-work shooting for 3.2

    • Medical: A bunch of stuff pretty self-explanatory (as originally designed).

    • Voyager Direct: Going away but you will have an opportunity to melt it back to store credit or UEC. Also moving forward from that point any resets will reset your starting aUEC to your account UEC+ a small/undetermined stipend.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,322
    Babuinix
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