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Star Citizen - Development Updates

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Comments

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    Weren't they supposed to "increase the scope" though? I thought that was the argument for the many delays and failures from cig, and right there it's not what they're doing.
    At the moment they are developing and playtesting and see what works.

    Nothing written in stone yet.


    Have fun
    jerry1991
  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 558
    I totally understand that, it's just that I find that it goes directly against the idea of expanding the scope that they promoted years ago.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,283
    edited January 2018
    I totally understand that, it's just that I find that it goes directly against the idea of expanding the scope that they promoted years ago.
    The current scope is as described by the core and stretched goals - which haven't changed in some time. And the stretched goals were a part of that expanded scope.

    Doesn't mean that in the future - as a minimum after it has launched - there couldn't be further scope expansion. Surely though you are not suggesting they start introducing new goals? Pretty sure if they did you would have something negative to say.

    Oh well. Dammed if they don't; dammed if they do in some peoples eyes it seems.
    jerry1991
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    Hmm, when it comes to scope i do not recall a stretch goal that specifically promises free ship theft via privacy. The goal that adds "boarding other ships" might fall into that category.

    The aim for persistence and immersion also may be a good argument for letting pirates keep their booty - but i guess game mechanics, game balance and player demands have to be weighed and considered in equal measure here.


    Have fun
    jerry1991
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,777
    edited January 2018
    Erillion said:
    Hmm, when it comes to scope i do not recall a stretch goal that specifically promises free ship theft via privacy. The goal that adds "boarding other ships" might fall into that category.
    Capturing ships was promised during Kickstarter:

    "there will be boarding parties in both Squadron 42 SP game and Star Citizen's persistent universe. You'll be able to capture bigger ships, or perhaps an asteroid base or space station"

    Source:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11wivt/i_am_chris_roberts_creator_of_wing_commander/
    jerry1991
     
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,837
    I noticed when asked general questions about future game play they usually say yes to everything so you end up with quotes about all types of promised features that usually end up getting scaled back when it comes to actual execution.  
    Arglebarglerpmcmurphy

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,455
    edited January 2018
    Erillion said:
    Everything still subject to change, based on balancing passes.
    Too bad CiG (or is it RSI!?  It matters because legal reasons!) never mentioned that here in this FAQ (or in pretty much every other place)

    But hey, that's fine.  I saw several people saying "I might as well get a refund now" and they still have it in their legal right to do that, even if CiG says otherwise in their new website disclaimer about "Star Citizer" (how did they make a typo like that, anyways?  The R key isn't anywhere near the N key!).  Thank goodness for consumer protection laws to protect consumers from companies like CiG (and RSI!).

    If those looking forward to this now-bunk feature don't go get a refund, then oh well.  At this point everyone buying into this deserves what they get.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    >>> At this point everyone buying into this deserves what they get.  >>>

    I absolutely agree.

    Maybe not for the same reasons as you do ;-)


    Have fun
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,455
    edited January 2018
    Erillion said:
    >>> At this point everyone buying into this deserves what they get.  >>>

    I absolutely agree.

    Maybe not for the same reasons as you do ;-)


    Have fun
    Yea, paying $40 to waffle about in 3.0 isn't a bad deal for those who are in to that sort of thing.

    Games like Star Citizen however need big spending whales to survive.  It's well-known everywhere that those $40 players are pretty much insignificant to revenue models that sell big ticket items that cost hundreds or even thousands.  So what happens to those who spent $40 on the game and don't get a refund is of no consequence to the grand scheme of things.  In the end, it will be the whales who will suffer the most because they had the most to lose.  And that's good, because hopefully they'll learn some valuable lessons from all of this and thus hopefully things like this won't happen again in the future as much.
    Octagon7711Odeezee
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,837
    I'm always surprised how people expect games to be exactly as they were initially planned.  Very few games end up at launch as they were originally planned.  Any doubts about a game, just wait at least til final beta when you will have a very good idea about how a game will actually be.  If you don't want to wait then jump in but realize you could end up with anything including a game that dies before it launches or launches as a complete mess taking taking a few years to reach it's potential.

    Financial situations do change and it's good that federal laws override business EULA agreements.  I think it says a lot about a company that doesn't create a hassle over giving a refund.  
    TiamatRoar

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 558
    gervaise1 said:
    I totally understand that, it's just that I find that it goes directly against the idea of expanding the scope that they promoted years ago.
    The current scope is as described by the core and stretched goals - which haven't changed in some time. And the stretched goals were a part of that expanded scope.

    Doesn't mean that in the future - as a minimum after it has launched - there couldn't be further scope expansion. Surely though you are not suggesting they start introducing new goals? Pretty sure if they did you would have something negative to say.

    Oh well. Dammed if they don't; dammed if they do in some peoples eyes it seems.
    I'm not suggesting they introduce new goals, I'm saying they're cutting features as development struggles forward.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,865
    edited January 2018
    If the design changes it changes. If it doesn't it doesn't.

    It's also very heavily driven by feedback, if the strong opinion of the backers is that there must be more persistence on the stolen ships as originally intended, then we will see if they go try to meet that, if not, then it is as it is.

    There are legitimate reasons of why the design is as it is, it's not a conspiracy from the evil CIG against its backers; but it's something that for me can clearly meet somewhere in the middle to attend to the original design.

    I'm not suggesting they introduce new goals, I'm saying they're cutting features as development struggles forward.
    They are not.

    The how long a stolen ship lasts is not the feature, it's one of the details of the feature, being the feature the ability to capture (steal) the ship itself.

    rpmcmurphyPingu2012
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,865
    edited January 2018
    One rather interesting point about that stolen ships:

    "It may sound annoying, but what other games have showed us (eve, elite dangerous) is that if you let players get away with it, nearly 100% of them want to be the "space pirates." A game where everyone is the pirate means that they quickly run out of prey (as EVE did and had to start f2p, and in ED just means not many people are playing in open). Supporting that kind of play just leads to everyone playing that way.

    Being a space pirate is enough fun on its own, without adding ridiculous incentives like making it the best way to get ships or make money. Balancing the crime and punishment system is something EVE and Elite struggled with (to the point of failing, I would say). Star citizen is going to have to do a better job than both of them, and this may be a step in the right direction. We will see."


    It's actually true I haven't thoughtk of it that way, when it comes to balancing out playerbase something like this might overcome the rest of the game and most people would go the piracy route, it's indeed done of the most frustrating things about balance because "nothing can be that worth it".

    ErillionBabuinixPingu2012
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,608
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?

    Well, guess that's just par for the course in the world of Star Citizen.   No telling what neutered product it will eventually become.  But it will look pretty.....
    LeoTolstoyVrikaScotchUpTiamatRoarrpmcmurphyMaxBaconOctagon7711Odeezee

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    Most likely a WORKING product.


    Have fun 
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,256
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?

    Well, guess that's just par for the course in the world of Star Citizen.   No telling what neutered product it will eventually become.  But it will look pretty.....

    The critics, the detractors and the haters have asked many times over the years about how CIG will combat ship fraud etc, it was a potential minefield and the answer from the whiteknights has always been that CIG have the best minds in the industry working on this game, that all you need is faith and trust in Christ Roberts yadda yadda yadda.

    Now they're making excuses for why it was a bad idea in the first place and why the best minds in the industry cannot do what they claimed they could do etc.

    Always funny watching the backpedalling.
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,111
    CIG simplifies yet another game mechanic.
    I'm sure everyone was very very surprised :expressionless:
    Odeezee

    ..Cake..

  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 558
    MaxBacon said:


    The how long a stolen ship lasts is not the feature, it's one of the details of the feature, being the feature the ability to capture (steal) the ship itself.

    I think you just outdid yourself with that one, a new depth has been reached, gratz!

    sgelKefoMaxBacon
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,300
    Seems that the armchair lawyer's week is gone, so it's back to armchair developer week :D

    If only there were space games even remotely similar to the depth and complexity Star Citizen is doing so their devs could take notes...

    Trailblazing video-games is a wonderful thing indeed.
    Odeezee
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,865
    edited January 2018
    I think you just outdid yourself with that one, a new depth has been reached, gratz!
    Not at all, you are talking about them cutting features (like this even height to the ones they continued to add), yet, this is simply the details involving the feature that is the ability to steal the ships.

    It was now explained further here:

    "I don't see anything stated conflicts with anything in the Insurance FAQ. We are talking about the very same UEE-bonded insurance mentioned in the FAQ. As stated, the insurance will not transfer to a stolen ship, so you cannot use it to reclaim the ship. As for this section: "You will be able to fly a “hot” ship to the less savory parts of the Star Citizen universe, where you will probably be able to land and may be able to purchase a fake hull id code..." that is still the case. Currently, it is "probably" possible to land and it "may" be possible to buy a fake ID code. These answers won't be known in a more definitive manner until such time as it comes to design and develop those systems for those "less savory" parts of the Star Citizen universe, and how those systems have to interact with every other game system available at that time."



    It's not about the game devs going on a cutting features out, yet about the normal design process as it fleshes out. In one side there will be features cut/changed, in the other new features are added.  (everything that the design expanded upon when they now did PG planets is proof of that)


    rpmcmurphy said:
    The critics, the detractors and the haters have asked many times over the years about how CIG will combat ship fraud etc, it was a potential minefield and the answer from the whiteknights has always been that CIG have the best minds in the industry working on this game, that all you need is faith and trust in Christ Roberts yadda yadda yadda.

    Now they're making excuses for why it was a bad idea in the first place and why the best minds in the industry cannot do what they claimed they could do etc.

    Always funny watching the backpedalling.
    If it is about me you're barking at the wrong door. I always wondered about the same insurance fraud as the biggest challenge of something like this, as well, never been in favor of a stolen ship being ever secured (insured), but I don't think it is a bad idea to allow those ships to persist until destruction.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,865
    edited January 2018
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?
    Space piracy is part of SC, such reality-bending hyperbole...

    If stolen ships can't persist until destruction as originally intended, it does not impact the fact you can Steal, you can Sell the ship you steal, you can Board and loot, you can Destroy and Salvage, and any other features that are part of such design of what space piracy in SC is (that go up to piracy missions, smuggling, interdiction play, bases, etc...)
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,608
    Babuinix said:
    Seems that the armchair lawyer's week is gone, so it's back to armchair developer week :D

    If only there were space games even remotely similar to the depth and complexity Star Citizen is doing so their devs could take notes...

    Trailblazing video-games is a wonderful thing indeed.
    Stealing other peoples stuff and using it is not a nebulous and mysterious concept unfathomable to those of lesser genius than the Great Roberts.

    This was an obvious issue from very early on.  Didn't stop them from bloviating on and on about the space piracy concept as part of the games' strong attraction.

    Not very immersive to have the ship you just captured vanish at disconnect or log out.   Undercuts a promoted aspect of gameplay.   Doesn't surprise me that when faced with a difficult issue, CIG just decided to cut bait.  Expect more of the same.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,865
    edited January 2018
    Arglebargle said:
    Didn't stop them from bloviating on and on about the space piracy concept as part of the games' strong attraction.
    And it shall continue being so.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,608
    edited January 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    It took them five+ years and $170mil to realize that 'space piracy' in their open world space game was going to be a problem?   With all the examples already available?   After all the promoting of it as a game play style?
    Space piracy is part of SC, such reality-bending hyperbole...

    If stolen ships can't persist until destruction as originally intended, it does not impact the fact you can Steal, you can Sell the ship you steal, you can Board and loot, you can Destroy and Salvage, and any other features that are part of such design of what space piracy in SC is (that go up to piracy missions, smuggling, interdiction play, bases, etc...)
    Pretty funny to see you all backpedal furiously on this.    It was an obvious issue, and rather than go with the mechanic, or figure out an innovative method of handling it, CIG just decided stolen ships go *poof*.   That's really an immersive open world feature.  ;(   


    Better have your supply chain all set up, if you want to sell your snagged ship before a disconnect or logout.   No naughty fleet building for you!

    And their response to the issue?   'We'll fix it in post....'   Good luck with that.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

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