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Map systems and player known locations

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Comments

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,970
    Sinist said:
    The only way this works is if EVERYONE is forced to it. If you make it optional, there is no point. Few if any will play a game purposefully handicapped when others are not required (unless it is a server rule set). Either you require everyone, or do not bother.

    Either people are interested in playing a game, or they are interested in being "entertained". There is a distinct difference in expectations.
    Since the word handicapped has crept into this discussion, let me reverse the question.  Why would any developers create a game with handicapped functionality?  Are people somehow offended when a building entrance includes both steps and a ramp?  Is there social hostility about something trying to include different preferences rather than exclusionary that I haven't seen?

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    Amathe said:
    What I hear you saying is that if you propose some pointless difficulty, that is pure gold. But if I propose one, it is delusional mockery. Are you afraid to learn a new language? A real, challenging language instead of just sitting and spamming orc or fairy as a simulation? Sounds like you don't want to play a game and just want to read your EZ-mode English and be entertained. Perhaps you are not as good at languages as I am and are afraid to compete? Perhaps you are afraid I will have an advantage over you that is unwarranted? Hmmmmm. 

    You are seriously comparing asking a person to learn the zone they are exploring in with having someone learn an entire language just to converse with an NPC? Again, argument of extremes. Your position is nowhere near reasonable. All you are doing is making extreme arguments in rebuttal because you are upset that you can't deal with the fact you are being unreasonable.


  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Sinist said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Everyone's hooked on easy street and are scared to death of a little challenge... 
    This goes back to my argument of the difference between the person who wants to play a game and one who just wants to be entertained. The gamer desires elements of play that create obstacles to be overcome while the person who just wants to be entertained simply desires convenience in their play.

    I have to ask. What makes you the authority? Im not necessarily disagreeing with you. But isnt this all a matter of opinion and personal tastes? Who gives a shit what others play or if they want entertainment or challenge? I dont. I do what I do and others do what they do. Also I think different people like different types or different levels of challenge as well. Some of us like ridiculous challenge, others want to sale through a game like it was an interactive book/movie. I dont think their is a right or wrong here, but your tone implies there is, even if you didnt mean it that way. Im sure we could find some type of challenge that could be proposed into Pantheon that you would write 10,000 posts arguing against it. Everyones taste varies. Saying that because they dont want one specific aspect to be challenging doesnt mean they want everything handed to them either. You do realize that right? Or was Driven right in that the purpose of this topic (a topic the Devs have already sounded off on) to troll?

    What if before every battle big or small you had to solve a random calculus equation? Thats challenging right?


  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Mendel said:
    Sinist said:
    The only way this works is if EVERYONE is forced to it. If you make it optional, there is no point. Few if any will play a game purposefully handicapped when others are not required (unless it is a server rule set). Either you require everyone, or do not bother.

    Either people are interested in playing a game, or they are interested in being "entertained". There is a distinct difference in expectations.
    Since the word handicapped has crept into this discussion, let me reverse the question.  Why would any developers create a game with handicapped functionality?  Are people somehow offended when a building entrance includes both steps and a ramp?  Is there social hostility about something trying to include different preferences rather than exclusionary that I haven't seen?
    Why don't they let handicaps play in the NFL? or the NBA? Those evil people for not allowing such a person to compete with the others(of course with numerous bonuses and benefits over the the normal players, you know.. to even it out!)? How terrible they are that they have games out there that does not consider those who can't (or in the case of many so called people in games WILL NOT) put the effort into the game? Why how terrible they are, how mean and cruel they are for not allowing a wheel chair defensive line backer!

    Woe is me, the world is so unfair!!! Social Justice Warriors unite! Form of Narcissist!

  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Amsai said:
    Sinist said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Everyone's hooked on easy street and are scared to death of a little challenge... 
    This goes back to my argument of the difference between the person who wants to play a game and one who just wants to be entertained. The gamer desires elements of play that create obstacles to be overcome while the person who just wants to be entertained simply desires convenience in their play.

    I have to ask. What makes you the authority? Im not necessarily disagreeing with you. But isnt this all a matter of opinion and personal tastes? Who gives a shit what others play or if they want entertainment or challenge? I dont. I do what I do and others do what they do. Also I think different people like different types or different levels of challenge as well. Some of us like ridiculous challenge, others want to sale through a game like it was an interactive book/movie. I dont think their is a right or wrong here, but your tone implies there is, even if you didnt mean it that way. Im sure we could find some type of challenge that could be proposed into Pantheon that you would write 10,000 posts arguing against it. Everyones taste varies. Saying that because they dont want one specific aspect to be challenging doesnt mean they want everything handed to them either. You do realize that right? Or was Driven right in that the purpose of this topic (a topic the Devs have already sounded off on) to troll?

    What if before every battle big or small you had to solve a random calculus equation? Thats challenging right?
    Do you really want an honest answer? If I go into all the details between subjective/objective, valid/invalid, sound/unsound logic, etc... are you going to consider it or just dismiss it? This is an honest question as if you are going to dismiss, I don't see the point in bothering to answer here.

    So, honestly, do you really want an honest answer?

    edit:

    By the way, that means answering like DrivenDawn has answered and considering you and he are pretty much joined at the hip in opinion, I have no interest in wasting time explaining my position to someone who won't read it and will simply brush it away as if it was never even mentioned. I have no respect for people as such, none.
  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 484
    Amathe said:
    What I hear you saying is that if you propose some pointless difficulty, that is pure gold. But if I propose one, it is delusional mockery. Are you afraid to learn a new language? A real, challenging language instead of just sitting and spamming orc or fairy as a simulation? Sounds like you don't want to play a game and just want to read your EZ-mode English and be entertained. Perhaps you are not as good at languages as I am and are afraid to compete? Perhaps you are afraid I will have an advantage over you that is unwarranted? Hmmmmm. 
    Retarded comparison, and that's as nice as I can put it... 
  • drivendawndrivendawn Member RarePosts: 2,144
    Amsai said:
    Sinist said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Everyone's hooked on easy street and are scared to death of a little challenge... 
    This goes back to my argument of the difference between the person who wants to play a game and one who just wants to be entertained. The gamer desires elements of play that create obstacles to be overcome while the person who just wants to be entertained simply desires convenience in their play.

    I have to ask. What makes you the authority? Im not necessarily disagreeing with you. But isnt this all a matter of opinion and personal tastes? Who gives a shit what others play or if they want entertainment or challenge? I dont. I do what I do and others do what they do. Also I think different people like different types or different levels of challenge as well. Some of us like ridiculous challenge, others want to sale through a game like it was an interactive book/movie. I dont think their is a right or wrong here, but your tone implies there is, even if you didnt mean it that way. Im sure we could find some type of challenge that could be proposed into Pantheon that you would write 10,000 posts arguing against it. Everyones taste varies. Saying that because they dont want one specific aspect to be challenging doesnt mean they want everything handed to them either. You do realize that right? Or was Driven right in that the purpose of this topic (a topic the Devs have already sounded off on) to troll?

    What if before every battle big or small you had to solve a random calculus equation? Thats challenging right?
    Right. People say they want maps and it's like they want everything handed to them all of the sudden. Also I still say it's ridiculous to have a world on par with the dark ages technology and have no maps at all. God knows they al just memorized the lay of the land and didn't chart one bit of it.
  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Gyva02 said:
    Amathe said:
    What I hear you saying is that if you propose some pointless difficulty, that is pure gold. But if I propose one, it is delusional mockery. Are you afraid to learn a new language? A real, challenging language instead of just sitting and spamming orc or fairy as a simulation? Sounds like you don't want to play a game and just want to read your EZ-mode English and be entertained. Perhaps you are not as good at languages as I am and are afraid to compete? Perhaps you are afraid I will have an advantage over you that is unwarranted? Hmmmmm. 
    Retarded comparison, and that's as nice as I can put it... 
    What is amusing is how silly their argument is. They remind me of the people who used to crack jokes about me being into games. I remember working for a financial company in the IT department many many years ago and having the non-techs make jokes about me playing D&D or playing a video game. They didn't get it, they didn't understand what a game was, its purpose in mental practice and process.

    Then, mainstream gaming took over and those same types are now playing games, but they still don't get it. They have no clue. It is just "entertainment" to them, and they still make the same jokes and treat it like they are the ones who have an understanding. They are just fast food eaters driving through, playing for conveniences, chasing mundane natures (me hit, me win reward, me happy!!! /thump /thump) and have no care or understanding of basic purpose of a game, why gaming is, what it means.

    It has been demoralizing to see this crowd move in and take over gaming. I wish they would just get bored and move on to the next fad. /sigh
  • IkonisIkonis Member UncommonPosts: 245
    I just want these guys dropped off in the middle of nowhere with just a map and then tell me afterwards that it was a piece of cake getting back home because it was Ez mode.
  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    Ikonis said:
    I just want these guys dropped off in the middle of nowhere with just a map and then tell me afterwards that it was a piece of cake getting back home because it was Ez mode.
    Why stop there, how about just place us anywhere without a map and just a compass? You might be surprised at how some of us might do. Maybe I can take you hunting with me sometime and explain this too you? No?
  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Nah its just common sense brother. And I can and did accuse you. I also said I hope I am wrong. Its just that you make it so hard to understand you that I cant think of what else is going on in that crazy head of yours. The closest real life thing you remind me of is a politician. Its like I can never get a direct and short response. So it makes it hard for me to trust you on so many issues youve posted on. Especially when you have such a poor tone with many posters here. I and others have tried to extend an olive leaf plenty of times. But it seems to me you are too busy with the Pantheon you want to consider the Pantheon that will be. Which in my expeience roughly translates to you telling the others "We are entitled to our wrong opinions". 


  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    Mendel said:

    Since the word handicapped has crept into this discussion, let me reverse the question.  Why would any developers create a game with handicapped functionality?  Are people somehow offended when a building entrance includes both steps and a ramp?  Is there social hostility about something trying to include different preferences rather than exclusionary that I haven't seen?
    Because its not the real world and ramps mostly are made for handicap people on a wheelchair who cant climb steps. Pretty much everyone who isnt handicapped just takes the stairs. No one says... well I like the view from the ramp, when all they want to do is go inside to store or whatever. Nor is climbing up steps or a ramp in RL a part of a game people play with other people. I could go on but I think (hope) you get the point.

    You cant have the "option" to handicap your gameplay in a game with other players, because it wont work, and wont be used, so there is no point. However implementing it, optional or not, will just cheapen the entire experience... creating the same old atmosphere of the souless point-to-point, exploration free leveling we've had since developers started pointing everything out to us. Even database websites have contributed to this. Thats why im all for getting rid of or hiding/blocking any coordinate system from being in the UI. Its an RPG, get involved with the world. Listen to quest NPCs directions/clues, explore and figure things out for yourself without being guided every step of the way.

    You may not realize it but any developer can make a game where you can zoom past content, click 'accept', follow the arrow, one shot everything as easily and trouble free as possible ... doesnt mean its good or that it wont bore the hell out of the players after about 5 minutes of easy mindnumbing point-to-point gameplay.
  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Amathe said:
    [mod edit]
    Well, lets get to the brass tax shall we?

    First off, this thread was NOT about whether there should be a map or not. It was about there being a /loc system accessible to the players.

    Next, as I already explained to you about the legends server here [mod edit]

    Sinist said:
    Amathe said:
    I just have one additional question for @Sinist. In this thread you advocate for no maps. Not even any coordinates. Yet you posted previously that in Everquest you played on the Legends server, which featured "dynamic maps." Are you having a change of heart? 
    Just because I played on the legends server, does not mean that I advocated for every feature that existed. The fact is, there is no game to date that has every exact feature that I desire. Besides, by that time the auto-mapping system with downloaded maps was common regardless of the server. My main reason for playing on the legends server was scheduled raiding. I was working many hours at the time and contested raids were not on the table (nor did I ever care for it).

    Also,  keep in mind that many of my positions changed over the years as I grew to experience how such features destroyed game play. When WoW first came out, I actually advocated for instances and many other features today which I now know to be detrimental to game play, it was just that I didn't realize how much it ruined the game until I experienced what was missing over the years.

    My comment was for discussion, I even expressed this as a suggestion in the OP, it was not a demand, nor a declaration of any fact of reality in any other game.

    [mod edit]
    Post edited by Amana on
  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Kayo83 said:
     Thats why im all for getting rid of or hiding/blocking any coordinate system from being in the UI. Its an RPG, get involved with the world. Listen to quest NPCs directions/clues, explore and figure things out for yourself without being guided every step of the way.

    Exactly, that is what I would love to see and this is coming from someone who gets a little ahead of themselves (ie moving too fast, not paying attention and getting into trouble). A good game is one that constantly requires the player to push outside their safe zones, learning, developing, finding new solutions, and constantly encountering obstacles. A map system that hands it to the player is counter to that concept.


    Kayo83 said:
    You may not realize it but any developer can make a game where you can zoom past content, click 'accept', follow the arrow, one shot everything as easily and trouble free as possible ... doesnt mean its good or that it wont bore the hell out of the players after about 5 minutes of easy mindnumbing point-to-point gameplay.

    Seems that many mainstream games are learning that lesson. It makes money quickly at the start, but loses its player bases over time. I don't think Pantheon can afford that approach as they aren't making that much money off the bat to say "Who cares, piss on the players, we got rich in the first few months, later droods!"
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,468
    It comes down to this. For every feature anyone can put forward, there is a way that feature could be made harder than what is being contemplated or discussed for Pantheon. For example:

    Combat could be made more challenging by having it be more dynamic and real time, with dodging, blocking, no tab targeting, and other twitchy features. But some people don't like that.

    The game could have full, open PvP on ever server. But some people don't like that.

    You could lose all your possessions when you die, a la Eve. But some people don't like that.

    Raiding could be all about jumping away from increasingly difficult and circles. But some people don't like that.

    So just because a feature CAN be made more difficult does not mean:

    A. It will make the game better for the people who are going to play it; and
    B. Opposing that feature warrants someone being ridiculed. 

    A fair discussion of the issue ought to be possible. But inevitably the EZ mode epithets start flying.  

    So yes, the OP makes a proposal, and I disagree with that proposal, and so naturally I have to be accused of being some kind of idiot who doesn't understand games. But of course that is not true and merely does injury to what could be a reasonable discussion if reasonable people were participating in it. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Well stated Amathe. My advise to sinist would be to try and keep things short and to the point and approach these topics like a discusion and not like a debate competition. Other than that try being more friendly and respectful. I think even when you disagree you will find it works better that way. Because you can only expect to be treated as well as you treat others


  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Amathe said:
    Combat could be made more challenging by having it be more dynamic and real time, with dodging, blocking, no tab targeting, and other twitchy features. But some people don't like that.
    That implies that "more challenging" is directly related to action based response. This is false, and a complete misunderstanding of what makes an encounter difficult. Twitch is not the gauge of difficulty.

    Amathe said:
    The game could have full, open PvP on ever server. But some people don't like that.

    PvP is a style of challenge, but it is not the deciding factor of challenge. PvE is challenging in its own style of play.

    Amathe said:
    You could lose all your possessions when you die, a la Eve. But some people don't like that.

    Yes, you could, and EQ did allow such with its 7 day corpse rot on release. Some games as you mentioned allow this, it is a style of play, I agree such harsh penalties are subjective in appeal.


    Amathe said:
    raiding could be all about jumping away from increasingly difficult and circles. But some people don't like that.
    Again, action based combat. That is a taste between action based or more strategy based. In action games, player reflex is key, in strategy games the focus is more on application of tools and the like. Neither are right or wrong, and I can find appeal in both at times, but the tenants of this game are NOT focused on the arcade style of an action game.

    Amathe said:

    So just because a feature CAN be made more difficult does not mean:

    A. It will make the game better for the people who are going to play it; and
    B. Opposing that feature warrants someone being ridiculed. 

    A fair discussion of the issue ought to be possible. But inevitably the EZ mode epithets start flying.  

    So yes, the OP makes a proposal, and I disagree with that proposal, and so naturally I have to be accused of being some kind of idiot who doesn't understand games. But of course that is not true and merely does injury to what could be a reasonable discussion if reasonable people were participating in it.


    It all comes down to what this game is trying to achieve. Is it trying to appeal to the concepts of mainstream where maps are drawn out for the player, where fast travel takes the player quickly to their destination, etc...

    It is a game in the "spirit" of EQ and Vanguard. If we are to logically look at this, then what is taken from EQ is that of the old school concepts of earning and learning your play. The lack of hand-held features where the player has to explore, learn and evolve through this virtual world.

    What it takes from vanguard is the concepts of more detailed class designs, world events, systems and play.

    EQ and Vanguard fit perfectly together in their focused achievements while discarding all of the mainstream features.

    What you seem to be complaining about is that if the game doesn't have a cheat feature where the player can see the zone entirely at the start or by simply running through it to "uncover" it, then it is "too hardcore". That is absurd.

    If you read the discussion, I even said I have no issue with maps, providing they are acquired through effort that does not invalidate game play. If a player through little effort can buy a map to see the entire zone without learning it, well, it invalidate the effort of the person who takes the time to learn the zone and in "gaming", it is the one who puts the effort who should win, who should succeed. If that is not the case, then I know I don't want to play such a game as it is just a reminder of the idiocy of the "participation trophy" systems we have today. What enjoyment could I find in attending to such stupidity in my game play? It is why I don't play the stupid games of today.







  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,468
    Amsai said:
    Well stated Amathe. My advise to sinist would be to try and keep things short and to the point and approach these topics like a discusion and not like a debate competition. Other than that try being more friendly and respectful. I think even when you disagree you will find it works better that way. Because you can only expect to be treated as well as you treat others
    /agree, but I have solved the problem by putting Sinist on ignore after his last profanity laced childish unstable tirade. So he and I will have nothing that needs discussing going forward. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Amsai said:
    Well stated Amathe. My advise to sinist would be to try and keep things short and to the point and approach these topics like a discusion and not like a debate competition. Other than that try being more friendly and respectful. I think even when you disagree you will find it works better that way. Because you can only expect to be treated as well as you treat others
    Very well unsaid Amasi, as you have demonstrated you are biased to a fault in your position, think nothing of logic or the position of another as you have stated you don't give a shit what someone else says and will proclaim them invalid based on your illogical and emotional suppositions. Why anyone would consider your advice or your opinion to be nothing more than lies and bullshit, I have no clue. Fact is, that is what you have established with your comments, that you don't give a shit what people say, you will say and do as you like regardless of the evidence or logic

    Good luck with that, I know what you say is irrelevant after such an admission, I don't see why any sane person would listen to a word you have to say. /shrug

    For those who want to see the moral attitude of our poster, here it is:

    Sinist said:
    Amsai said:
    Sinist said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Everyone's hooked on easy street and are scared to death of a little challenge... 
    This goes back to my argument of the difference between the person who wants to play a game and one who just wants to be entertained. The gamer desires elements of play that create obstacles to be overcome while the person who just wants to be entertained simply desires convenience in their play.

    I have to ask. What makes you the authority? Im not necessarily disagreeing with you. But isnt this all a matter of opinion and personal tastes? Who gives a shit what others play or if they want entertainment or challenge? I dont. I do what I do and others do what they do. Also I think different people like different types or different levels of challenge as well. Some of us like ridiculous challenge, others want to sale through a game like it was an interactive book/movie. I dont think their is a right or wrong here, but your tone implies there is, even if you didnt mean it that way. Im sure we could find some type of challenge that could be proposed into Pantheon that you would write 10,000 posts arguing against it. Everyones taste varies. Saying that because they dont want one specific aspect to be challenging doesnt mean they want everything handed to them either. You do realize that right? Or was Driven right in that the purpose of this topic (a topic the Devs have already sounded off on) to troll?

    What if before every battle big or small you had to solve a random calculus equation? Thats challenging right?
    Do you really want an honest answer? If I go into all the details between subjective/objective, valid/invalid, sound/unsound logic, etc... are you going to consider it or just dismiss it? This is an honest question as if you are going to dismiss, I don't see the point in bothering to answer here.

    So, honestly, do you really want an honest answer?

    edit:

    By the way, that means answering like DrivenDawn has answered and considering you and he are pretty much joined at the hip in opinion, I have no interest in wasting time explaining my position to someone who won't read it and will simply brush it away as if it was never even mentioned. I have no respect for people as such, none.

    Sinist said:
    Amsai said:
    As verbose ans condescending as your answers usually are............. honestly no I dont Sinist. I honestly dont care about the topic one way or the other as the maps thing is a non issue that wont make or break my game play. But I just overall question your true motives when ever you post. In short I think you purposefully try to create drama 90% of the time. I hope Im wrong but I doubt it.


    So you ask a person to explain themselves, then admit you don't give a shit and won't consider it all the while making accusations of their intent? Then you think you can even remotely accuse me of intentionally creating drama? Do you even look at your own responses?

    Amasi, you are 100% typical internet chat room material. Seriously, you are a prime example of the the "normality" of what we call internet "logic".



    I ask that Amasi only treat me as I treat Amasi, with respect to the facts, with respect to the logic of a given position. apparently, Amasi has no respect for anything unless it is to bow down to Amasi's "personal" form of reasoning where we are supposed to suspend reason, logic and rational thought to attend to internet expectations of being given "special" rules for them.

    Is it a surprise why these folks think that games should personally attend to them? Is it a surprise why the entire industry is in the shitter trying to appeal to irrational people who think games are thier personal cheat simulators?


    I think not.

  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    I am an optimist. I cant help but want to see the best in people. I think Sinist is probably a decent well meaning guy. He just comes across in a way that puts people off. But I have caught him a rare time or 2 actually being nice and understanding. I have also agreed strongly with several of his threads. So I wont write him off. 


  • drivendawndrivendawn Member RarePosts: 2,144
    Amathe said:
    Amsai said:
    Well stated Amathe. My advise to sinist would be to try and keep things short and to the point and approach these topics like a discusion and not like a debate competition. Other than that try being more friendly and respectful. I think even when you disagree you will find it works better that way. Because you can only expect to be treated as well as you treat others
    /agree, but I have solved the problem by putting Sinist on ignore after his last profanity laced childish unstable tirade. So he and I will have nothing that needs discussing going forward. 
    You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last in what seems to be more than a few people. Lol
  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    Amsai said:
    I am an optimist. I cant help but want to see the best in people. I think Sinist is probably a decent well meaning guy. He just comes across in a way that puts people off. But I have caught him a rare time or 2 actually being nice and understanding. I have also agreed strongly with several of his threads. So I wont write him off. 
    If you "honestly" attend to discussion with me, I will have no real issue with you, even if we disagree, but if you use fallacies, rely on emotions, and promote poor logic belligerently, then I will not be nice, nor should anyone as such practice should never be tolerated.

    You know darn well Amasi, I am a wall of reflection, be an ass, I will be an ass. I am not peoples parents, I am not here to be kind to their egos.. if someone says something stupid, I will call it stupid, but that does not make the person stupid, only their continued actions to cling to stupidity defines that.
  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    After that last post youd think I was a glutton for punishment. You have an excellent and truly awe inspiring way of making something completely insane sound rational. And I dont want to be treated special and I dont have an imaginary game in mind. Im pretty surr that is you friend. Personal cheat simulators? LOL........ you caught me. Damn Sinist you won this round. Ill catch you next time man. But its been a great talk. You even gave me a good cry (from laughing so hard). And people say you have no sense of humor. 

    P.S. Seriously bro. Im worried about you. Turn it back a notch. And work on those people skills and you will be fine.


  • SinistSinist Member RarePosts: 1,369
    edited February 2016
    Amsai said:
    After that last post youd think I was a glutton for punishment. You have an excellent and truly awe inspiring way of making something completely insane sound rational. And I dont want to be treated special and I dont have an imaginary game in mind. Im pretty surr that is you friend. Personal cheat simulators? LOL........ you caught me. Damn Sinist you won this round. Ill catch you next time man. But its been a great talk. You even gave me a good cry (from laughing so hard). And people say you have no sense of humor. 

    P.S. Seriously bro. Im worried about you. Turn it back a notch. And work on those people skills and you will be fine.
    Work on people skills? LOL If only you knew.

    If abandoning logic and reason is the solution to dealing with people, then I will gladly walk off into the the fortress of solitude to be alone from the idiocy that encompasses today's "thinkers". Seriously, I feel alien among the youth of today as I was very comfortable in the arms of intellectuals of my day.

    Your advice is a cold truth of the reality of today, you should weep, not celebrate in your victory of position.
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,970
    Kayo83 said:
    Mendel said:

    Since the word handicapped has crept into this discussion, let me reverse the question.  Why would any developers create a game with handicapped functionality?  Are people somehow offended when a building entrance includes both steps and a ramp?  Is there social hostility about something trying to include different preferences rather than exclusionary that I haven't seen?
    Because its not the real world and ramps mostly are made for handicap people on a wheelchair who cant climb steps. Pretty much everyone who isnt handicapped just takes the stairs. No one says... well I like the view from the ramp, when all they want to do is go inside to store or whatever. Nor is climbing up steps or a ramp in RL a part of a game people play with other people. I could go on but I think (hope) you get the point.

    You cant have the "option" to handicap your gameplay in a game with other players, because it wont work, and wont be used, so there is no point. However implementing it, optional or not, will just cheapen the entire experience... creating the same old atmosphere of the souless point-to-point, exploration free leveling we've had since developers started pointing everything out to us. Even database websites have contributed to this. Thats why im all for getting rid of or hiding/blocking any coordinate system from being in the UI. Its an RPG, get involved with the world. Listen to quest NPCs directions/clues, explore and figure things out for yourself without being guided every step of the way.

    You may not realize it but any developer can make a game where you can zoom past content, click 'accept', follow the arrow, one shot everything as easily and trouble free as possible ... doesnt mean its good or that it wont bore the hell out of the players after about 5 minutes of easy mindnumbing point-to-point gameplay.
    The point my analogy made was that there are people who need maps and those who don't.  Making a game without maps automatically excludes those that need maps.  (With the assumption that exclusion = fewer customers = less revenue.  All around a bad idea for a business).  Making a map feature that is optional includes both types of players -- map users and mapless users.  Same as offering different camera features (1st person and various 3rd person views) or custom UIs.

    That being said, I can't see a company developing a game without a map function, but I can see that same company making the game defaults to not showing the map or setting a keyboard shortcut to showing that map.  There's nothing wrong with AUTOMAP = OFF as a default setting that the user can choose to switch on if they need it.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

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