The only shocking truth here is that OP does not see how stupid this whole thread is. Creating one based on examples of games in different genres, also both examples having nothing to do with each other or BDO...
As for the game being hyped or not. It has sold half a million copies already so it is safe to say if you want to play it, you don't have to fear it dying anytime soon.
Before OP brings up Evolve again:
Evolve sold 500k since release on PC. BDO has sold 500k before its release.
I'm just curious where that 500,000 buyer number came from. I'm not doubting or popoo-ing the game, I'm just curious where that came from.
Oh, and I'll never buy another Founders Pack ever again. I'll wait until a game has a couple of patches under its belt before I play it, other than beta testing. That tends to keep expectations low, and often prevents paying $50 for a founders pack that has only been played about 10 hours (Yes, that was me).
By the time this game has a couple of major patches under its belt, 75% of its playerbase will be gone. Just going to leave this here and will bump it in 3 months.
"shocking" lol come on man...anyway listen we all know by now that some people just hate on games or don't want to see them be successful. creating posts like these put you in that category...i have never understood the mentality behind it. hopefully the people that didn't get a chance to try it before release are smart enough not to be swayed by posts like this. plenty of youtube vids and twitch streams so watch and decide for yourself.
buying into "smear" posts like this is as bad as buying into the game hype itself. make up your own mind.
Ah, you missed the memo that GW2 went F2P almost half a year ago...
I did indeed. Although with HoT being an expansion you have to play... I'm not quite sure if GW2 is all that "F2P", unless you want to be the poor bastard that's doing old content while everyone else is in the expansion.
So I'm guessing that was their reasoning for going F2P. Lure them in with the base game, and then make them pay the box price for the expansion. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Forums are not indicative of majority preference, what's happening with BD is not shocking but completely expected.
BD won't be a blockbuster hit, it will have limited success which again is exactly what Daum planned for.
They lowered the entry price at launch to $30, which is cheap enough for many to try.
The retention rates won't matter because it's a b2p game, but once the game population settles it will be around 10% to 20% of box sales.
Again no surprise there - at this point all revenue will come from the cash shop which Daum will tune post launch to maintain profitability as box sales will have dried up at that point.
None of this is shocking - it's quite expected.
Words of a wise man.
Some predicted the same for GW2... and were wrong So who knows...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; the conversion from B2P to F2P is a very rare one. Your game has to be pretty damn awful to achieve that feat.
So far the only one that comes to mind for me that has made the transition has been Defiance. The other B2P titles have stayed B2P AFAIK.
Look at GW2 and how much money they make from their expansion last year. Something like 20%. The other 80% is from their cashshop.
You might as well call B2P as F2P games with 30-50$ down payment.
I did indeed. Although with HoT being an expansion you have to play... I'm not quite sure if GW2 is all that "F2P", unless you want to be the poor bastard that's doing old content while everyone else is in the expansion.
So I'm guessing that was their reasoning for going F2P. Lure them in with the base game, and then make them pay the box price for the expansion. xD
You do not have to buy an expansion. Period.
Business does not change the payment model because they are failing but to prevent a failure, which would ignoring the market and changes certainly resulted into.
Ah, you missed the memo that GW2 went F2P almost half a year ago...
I did indeed. Although with HoT being an expansion you have to play... I'm not quite sure if GW2 is all that "F2P", unless you want to be the poor bastard that's doing old content while everyone else is in the expansion.
So I'm guessing that was their reasoning for going F2P. Lure them in with the base game, and then make them pay the box price for the expansion. xD
What does F2P or B2P even matters?
Does B2P means no cashshop? Are you sure the BDO US cashshop will be any different from the Korean cashshop?
"shocking" lol come on man...anyway listen we all know by now that some people just hate on games or don't want to see them be successful. creating posts like these put you in that category...i have never understood the mentality behind it. hopefully the people that didn't get a chance to try it before release are smart enough not to be swayed by posts like this. plenty of youtube vids and twitch streams so watch and decide for yourself.
buying into "smear" posts like this is as bad as buying into the game hype itself. make up your own mind.
Although I do agree with most of this, Twitch streamers hype or smear games just as well as these posts. Everyone has that one "friend" that won't shut up about a game or refuses to play cause their fav streamer said it's an awesome/sh**ty game for any number of reasons.
People will always have some sort of biased opinion due to whatever. In this case we're seeing cause it's Korean, DAUM track record or lack there of, cause the cash shop right now, pvp is broke, AA scarred me etc. etc.
I played the CBT2, I don't know if I'll buy it or not. I always look at MMO's like this, If my guild/friends play and I can tolerate/like/love the game, I play.
The only shocking truth here is that OP does not see how stupid this whole thread is. Creating one based on examples of games in different genres, also both examples having nothing to do with each other or BDO...
As for the game being hyped or not. It has sold half a million copies already so it is safe to say if you want to play it, you don't have to fear it dying anytime soon.
Before OP brings up Evolve again:
Evolve sold 500k since release on PC. BDO has sold 500k before its release.
I'm just curious where that 500,000 buyer number came from. I'm not doubting or popoo-ing the game, I'm just curious where that came from.
Oh, and I'll never buy another Founders Pack ever again. I'll wait until a game has a couple of patches under its belt before I play it, other than beta testing. That tends to keep expectations low, and often prevents paying $50 for a founders pack that has only been played about 10 hours (Yes, that was me).
By the time this game has a couple of major patches under its belt, 75% of its playerbase will be gone. Just going to leave this here and will bump it in 3 months.
The only shocking truth here is that OP does not see how stupid this whole thread is. Creating one based on examples of games in different genres, also both examples having nothing to do with each other or BDO...
As for the game being hyped or not. It has sold half a million copies already so it is safe to say if you want to play it, you don't have to fear it dying anytime soon.
Before OP brings up Evolve again:
Evolve sold 500k since release on PC. BDO has sold 500k before its release.
I'm just curious where that 500,000 buyer number came from. I'm not doubting or popoo-ing the game, I'm just curious where that came from.
Oh, and I'll never buy another Founders Pack ever again. I'll wait until a game has a couple of patches under its belt before I play it, other than beta testing. That tends to keep expectations low, and often prevents paying $50 for a founders pack that has only been played about 10 hours (Yes, that was me).
By the time this game has a couple of major patches under its belt, 75% of its playerbase will be gone. Just going to leave this here and will bump it in 3 months.
Forums are not indicative of majority preference, what's happening with BD is not shocking but completely expected.
BD won't be a blockbuster hit, it will have limited success which again is exactly what Daum planned for.
They lowered the entry price at launch to $30, which is cheap enough for many to try.
The retention rates won't matter because it's a b2p game, but once the game population settles it will be around 10% to 20% of box sales.
Again no surprise there - at this point all revenue will come from the cash shop which Daum will tune post launch to maintain profitability as box sales will have dried up at that point.
None of this is shocking - it's quite expected.
Its a bit of a shame so little is expected of a new MMORPG, I wonder if one day we'll ever see greatness, or has that time passed, "mostly average" is the new normal?
Plenty of people ARE seeing greatness. Especially those who are new to MMOs. The rest is just too jaded, or too stuck in the past to appreciate new things.
You honestly think games that last the average user a month or 2 greatness. It s not jaded it s called truth. Games used to have a lot more lasting appeal to the majority.
Hardly. I've seen plenty of gamers that didn't stick around past their first month even back then. With F2P titles this behavior has just become even more prevalent since they don't have to make any initial investment at all. So it's test, and then move on to the next in line.
Or for those who are obsessed with racing to the level cap, it comes down to rushing through all the content, possibly complaining on the forums that there isn't more to do, and then on to the next game.
There are still plenty of people that stick with their games too, but the MMO industry is so big now that they are easily lost among the sea of MMO hoppers. It's usually this group of people that keeps these games going for the most part.
We have different views. I know of at least 50 guild mates who actually stuck with games back then. The games nowadays are more like carnivals. On the surface it seems like theres a lot of things to do, but when you actually play them, they become stale, and move on.
I know theres a lot of people that still stick with their games but I m willing to bet percentage wise it s not even close to what it was. The amount of people that stuck with EQ1, DAOC, FFXI, AC, WoW, EQ2 etc is far greater then games like Blade and Soul, AA etc. It s the way the games are now.
To say it happened as much back then as it does now, you re either blind or didn t play back then.
Option 3, being intentionally obtuse just to make an argument, or more often to keep maintaining an indefensible position, or admit that one has lost.
Frequently followed by the "its all just an opinion" defense or the ever popular "show me a link" feint.
There are so many techniques employed by those who deny the painfully obvious, reality must be a real bitch for them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Forums are not indicative of majority preference, what's happening with BD is not shocking but completely expected.
BD won't be a blockbuster hit, it will have limited success which again is exactly what Daum planned for.
They lowered the entry price at launch to $30, which is cheap enough for many to try.
The retention rates won't matter because it's a b2p game, but once the game population settles it will be around 10% to 20% of box sales.
Again no surprise there - at this point all revenue will come from the cash shop which Daum will tune post launch to maintain profitability as box sales will have dried up at that point.
None of this is shocking - it's quite expected.
Its a bit of a shame so little is expected of a new MMORPG, I wonder if one day we'll ever see greatness, or has that time passed, "mostly average" is the new normal?
Plenty of people ARE seeing greatness. Especially those who are new to MMOs. The rest is just too jaded, or too stuck in the past to appreciate new things.
You honestly think games that last the average user a month or 2 greatness. It s not jaded it s called truth. Games used to have a lot more lasting appeal to the majority.
Hardly. I've seen plenty of gamers that didn't stick around past their first month even back then. With F2P titles this behavior has just become even more prevalent since they don't have to make any initial investment at all. So it's test, and then move on to the next in line.
Or for those who are obsessed with racing to the level cap, it comes down to rushing through all the content, possibly complaining on the forums that there isn't more to do, and then on to the next game.
There are still plenty of people that stick with their games too, but the MMO industry is so big now that they are easily lost among the sea of MMO hoppers. It's usually this group of people that keeps these games going for the most part.
We have different views. I know of at least 50 guild mates who actually stuck with games back then. The games nowadays are more like carnivals. On the surface it seems like theres a lot of things to do, but when you actually play them, they become stale, and move on.
I know theres a lot of people that still stick with their games but I m willing to bet percentage wise it s not even close to what it was. The amount of people that stuck with EQ1, DAOC, FFXI, AC, WoW, EQ2 etc is far greater then games like Blade and Soul, AA etc. It s the way the games are now.
To say it happened as much back then as it does now, you re either blind or didn t play back then.
Option 3, being intentionally obtuse just to make an argument, or more often to keep maintaining an indefensible position, or admit that one has lost.
Frequently followed by the "its all just an opinion" defense or the ever popular "show me a link" feint.
There are so many techniques employed by those who deny the painfully obvious, reality must be a real bitch for them.
Ah the time tested debate, let me break it down for ya.
Old school MMO: -Had the holy trinity, (tank,heal,dps) very party oriented, potions popped usually on emergency only. -content was brutal, had to work hard, show up to every guild event in order to be on top of the in-guild loot list so when the guild fought the mob you needed and that gear dropped, you got to roll! -B2P and/or with sub -no cash shop (vanilla guys)
New school MMO: -every class can heal themselves, (usually) can solo most content, potions plentiful and powerful. -content mostly easy-average, can faceroll most mobs, farming dungeons/instances over and over cause drop rate is 1% and you better have the in-game coin to beat out your competition when/if gear drops. -F2P/B2P and/or F2P elements. -cash shop (some cosmetic only/paywall/paywall incoming)
There are always exceptions to all the above.
I could go on but the point is this. Old and new are MMO's but two very different MMO's. Chalk it up to the generation gap, real life responsibilities, time constraints, your big fat wallet, whatever. Times have changed, this is what we have to work with. Love it or Hate it, when you press that play button, you accept it.
Game mechanics and content design are very different based on the business model. So, it matters to me very much if a cash shop is included, especially how invasive and obnoxious it is and how content revolves around it. There is a notable amount of masochism in F2P games that is hard to tolerate without the XP bonus potions or percent modifiers for loot drops or keys for chests or ugly gear graphics if you don't buy store versions....etc.
In general, game play that feels punishing or depriving due to cash shop design is a huge turn off for this gamer.
On the surface, BDO is fun, its action filled and looks very good. Thats why people, even in this thread can say, oh Im having fun, they probably are, for now.
The trouble is that it severely lacks depth and as such, the game will only last a couple of weeks, and then it wont be worth anything anymore and people will stop having fun doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
Right now, people playing the game, are blind...
Very shallow? Like huge housing system, where the houses are actually useful. Hiring NPCs to work, and they need lodging and housing. Crafting system, which you need a workshop. Conversations with NPCs gain you knowledge and experience. Not knowing instantly how powerful an enemy mob is, till you kill them a few times before you can tell. Having to goto one town to another and actually find the NPCs with quests because they don't have a big '!' or a '?' over their heads. Open world, not going to be hitting any invisible walls. Good combat that requires more than just spamming 1,5,3,7,8. Certainly high end graphics that you don't need a super computer for.
I know it is no WoW killer...but that is only because it is more complex and lazy people don't like having a learning curve. If all you see is the combat...then you are blind to everything else the game has to offer.
Game mechanics and content design are very different based on the business model. So, it matters to me very much if a cash shop is included, especially how invasive and obnoxious it is and how content revolves around it. There is a notable amount of masochism in F2P games that is hard to tolerate without the XP bonus potions or percent modifiers for loot drops or keys for chests or ugly gear graphics if you don't buy store versions....etc.
In general, game play that feels punishing or depriving due to cash shop design is a huge turn off for this gamer.
I bought it strictly due to the hype, sounding like a mmo which would interest me. After playing the beta it has left me unexcited for launch, but i do look forward to having it around to mess around with.
Hype does help at times. I was very happy in Tera, but the BnS hype was off the charts, broke down tried it, haven't looked back, actually it's also what makes BDO even more meh, BnS is an amazingly well made mmo which doesn't help the clumsiness feel of BDO.
Then came the hype for BDO, being on a real Korean mmo kick i bought BDO. I don't regret buying it, it's not a horrible mmo by any stretch, it's just not the be all everyone seemed to claim, also feels like it needs some heavy refining and direction.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
Very shallow? Like huge housing system, where the houses are actually useful. Hiring NPCs to work, and they need lodging and housing. Crafting system, which you need a workshop. Conversations with NPCs gain you knowledge and experience. Not knowing instantly how powerful an enemy mob is, till you kill them a few times before you can tell. Having to goto one town to another and actually find the NPCs with quests because they don't have a big '!' or a '?' over their heads. Open world, not going to be hitting any invisible walls. Good combat that requires more than just spamming 1,5,3,7,8. Certainly high end graphics that you don't need a super computer for.
I know it is no WoW killer...but that is only because it is more complex and lazy people don't like having a learning curve. If all you see is the combat...then you are blind to everything else the game has to offer.
You mistake complicacy for complexity.
The game is actually "shallow"(lacking complexity, depth), and there is no problem with that. There is no need overreacting about it, in one extreme or another.
Ah the time tested debate, let me break it down for ya.
Old school MMO: -Had the holy trinity, (tank,heal,dps) very party oriented, potions popped usually on emergency only. -content was brutal, had to work hard, show up to every guild event in order to be on top of the in-guild loot list so when the guild fought the mob you needed and that gear dropped, you got to roll!
That's a very limited vision of "old school" MMOs.
For instance, both Ultima Online and Asheron's Call were absolutely not like that. No trinity, all play styles were valid (solo or grouped), there was no need to give up your life to show up to all guild events, and the best gear wasn't reserved to the no life crowd but everyone had a chance at it and/or could craft it, not to mention you could trade it.
Ah, you got me Jean-Luc
UO and AC were before my time, I admit. I was more referring to 2000 and up MMO's
Very shallow? Like huge housing system, where the houses are actually useful. Hiring NPCs to work, and they need lodging and housing. Crafting system, which you need a workshop. Conversations with NPCs gain you knowledge and experience. Not knowing instantly how powerful an enemy mob is, till you kill them a few times before you can tell. Having to goto one town to another and actually find the NPCs with quests because they don't have a big '!' or a '?' over their heads. Open world, not going to be hitting any invisible walls. Good combat that requires more than just spamming 1,5,3,7,8. Certainly high end graphics that you don't need a super computer for.
I know it is no WoW killer...but that is only because it is more complex and lazy people don't like having a learning curve. If all you see is the combat...then you are blind to everything else the game has to offer.
You mistake complicacy for complexity.
The game is actually "shallow"(lacking complexity, depth), and there is no problem with that. There is no need overreacting about it, in one extreme or another.
The game does not have to be complex to be fun.
com·plex·i·ty noun: the state or quality of being complicated. complicacy. plural com·pli·ca·cies: the quality or state of being complicated.
My mistake...I didn't realize the two words had such a huge difference in meaning...I guess translating my Canadian english to common english isn't as good as I thought.
And not over reacting...I was simply pointing out how 'shallow' the game is.
MMOredfalcon said: com·plex·i·ty noun: the state or quality of being complicated. complicacy. plural com·pli·ca·cies: the quality or state of being complicated.
My mistake...I didn't realize the two words had such a huge difference in meaning...I guess translating my Canadian english to common english isn't as good as I thought.
And not over reacting...I was simply pointing out how 'shallow' the game is.
Yeah, there is a difference. Might be subtle for some, but it is there.
Complicated system consist of operators and branches. While there might be numerous branching in the process,it is always deterministic. Typical complicated process is formal logic.
Complex systems on the other hand posses large intricacies of operators that make system unpredictible. Typical complex process is human judgement.
Well, you definitely felt the need to defend the game and "counter" the shallowness remark :-P
Very shallow? Like huge housing system, where the houses are actually useful. Hiring NPCs to work, and they need lodging and housing. Crafting system, which you need a workshop. Conversations with NPCs gain you knowledge and experience. Not knowing instantly how powerful an enemy mob is, till you kill them a few times before you can tell. Having to goto one town to another and actually find the NPCs with quests because they don't have a big '!' or a '?' over their heads. Open world, not going to be hitting any invisible walls. Good combat that requires more than just spamming 1,5,3,7,8. Certainly high end graphics that you don't need a super computer for.
I know it is no WoW killer...but that is only because it is more complex and lazy people don't like having a learning curve. If all you see is the combat...then you are blind to everything else the game has to offer.
I haven't been following this game but this sounds pretty good, good enough to take a modicum interest in it.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Gender locked classes (oh, also - sure, great customization except you can't make a young wizard, or a thin warrior, etc - so, actually, not great customization)
PVP gank fest crap. Again. So sick of every "sandbox" MMO thinking that means you have to have PVP shoved down your throat. No thanks.
Afraid you got some bad information. Yes there are gender locked classes (except witch/wizard), but it is in no way a gank fest.
Comments
buying into "smear" posts like this is as bad as buying into the game hype itself. make up your own mind.
Although with HoT being an expansion you have to play... I'm not quite sure if GW2 is all that "F2P", unless you want to be the poor bastard that's doing old content while everyone else is in the expansion.
So I'm guessing that was their reasoning for going F2P. Lure them in with the base game, and then make them pay the box price for the expansion. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Look at GW2 and how much money they make from their expansion last year. Something like 20%. The other 80% is from their cashshop.
You might as well call B2P as F2P games with 30-50$ down payment.
Business does not change the payment model because they are failing but to prevent a failure, which would ignoring the market and changes certainly resulted into.
Does B2P means no cashshop? Are you sure the BDO US cashshop will be any different from the Korean cashshop?
Apart from some moot rambling on forums... :-P
People will always have some sort of biased opinion due to whatever. In this case we're seeing cause it's Korean, DAUM track record or lack there of, cause the cash shop right now, pvp is broke, AA scarred me etc. etc.
I played the CBT2, I don't know if I'll buy it or not. I always look at MMO's like this, If my guild/friends play and I can tolerate/like/love the game, I play.
Those buy to play games cashshop are no different from other free to play's cashshop.
He make it sounds like the games are suddenly better because it is buy to play.
That's normal.
At least the 75% is normal.
Frequently followed by the "its all just an opinion" defense or the ever popular "show me a link" feint.
There are so many techniques employed by those who deny the painfully obvious, reality must be a real bitch for them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Old school MMO:
-Had the holy trinity, (tank,heal,dps) very party oriented, potions popped usually on emergency only.
-content was brutal, had to work hard, show up to every guild event in order to be on top of the in-guild loot list so when the guild fought the mob you needed and that gear dropped, you got to roll!
-B2P and/or with sub
-no cash shop (vanilla guys)
New school MMO:
-every class can heal themselves, (usually) can solo most content, potions plentiful and powerful.
-content mostly easy-average, can faceroll most mobs, farming dungeons/instances over and over cause drop rate is 1% and you better have the in-game coin to beat out your competition when/if gear drops.
-F2P/B2P and/or F2P elements.
-cash shop (some cosmetic only/paywall/paywall incoming)
There are always exceptions to all the above.
I could go on but the point is this.
Old and new are MMO's but two very different MMO's. Chalk it up to the generation gap, real life responsibilities, time constraints, your big fat wallet, whatever.
Times have changed, this is what we have to work with.
Love it or Hate it, when you press that play button, you accept it.
Game mechanics and content design are very different based on the business model. So, it matters to me very much if a cash shop is included, especially how invasive and obnoxious it is and how content revolves around it. There is a notable amount of masochism in F2P games that is hard to tolerate without the XP bonus potions or percent modifiers for loot drops or keys for chests or ugly gear graphics if you don't buy store versions....etc.
In general, game play that feels punishing or depriving due to cash shop design is a huge turn off for this gamer.
Like huge housing system, where the houses are actually useful.
Hiring NPCs to work, and they need lodging and housing.
Crafting system, which you need a workshop.
Conversations with NPCs gain you knowledge and experience.
Not knowing instantly how powerful an enemy mob is, till you kill them a few times before you can tell. Having to goto one town to another and actually find the NPCs with quests because they don't have a big '!' or a '?' over their heads.
Open world, not going to be hitting any invisible walls.
Good combat that requires more than just spamming 1,5,3,7,8.
Certainly high end graphics that you don't need a super computer for.
I know it is no WoW killer...but that is only because it is more complex and lazy people don't like having a learning curve. If all you see is the combat...then you are blind to everything else the game has to offer.
Hype does help at times. I was very happy in Tera, but the BnS hype was off the charts, broke down tried it, haven't looked back, actually it's also what makes BDO even more meh, BnS is an amazingly well made mmo which doesn't help the clumsiness feel of BDO.
Then came the hype for BDO, being on a real Korean mmo kick i bought BDO. I don't regret buying it, it's not a horrible mmo by any stretch, it's just not the be all everyone seemed to claim, also feels like it needs some heavy refining and direction.
The game is actually "shallow"(lacking complexity, depth), and there is no problem with that. There is no need overreacting about it, in one extreme or another.
The game does not have to be complex to be fun.
UO and AC were before my time, I admit. I was more referring to 2000 and up MMO's
Complicated system consist of operators and branches. While there might be numerous branching in the process,it is always deterministic. Typical complicated process is formal logic.
Complex systems on the other hand posses large intricacies of operators that make system unpredictible. Typical complex process is human judgement.
Well, you definitely felt the need to defend the game and "counter" the shallowness remark :-P
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.