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When will the genre truly evolve?

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  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    Many might argue it has devolved instead of evolved to include the lowest common denominator.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    Flyte27 said:
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    Many might argue it has devolved instead of evolved to include the lowest common denominator.
    That is just semantics. One man's "evolution" is another man's "devolution". But you can't deny that the genre has changed. 

    Many feel that it is better (hence the market grew), some feel that it is worse and they are out. Isn't that how markets evolve?
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Flyte27 said:
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    Many might argue it has devolved instead of evolved to include the lowest common denominator.
    That is just semantics. One man's "evolution" is another man's "devolution". But you can't deny that the genre has changed. 

    Many feel that it is better (hence the market grew), some feel that it is worse and they are out. Isn't that how markets evolve?
    I think the very word 'evolve' HAS to imply something goes out because its not as good as another option.

    Thus I dont think 'Evolve' can be a true neutral statement that just means change

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,208
    It will evolve when a developer is bold enough to build a game that people will like, even if such people do not yet know they will like it. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    SEANMCAD said:
    Flyte27 said:
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    Many might argue it has devolved instead of evolved to include the lowest common denominator.
    That is just semantics. One man's "evolution" is another man's "devolution". But you can't deny that the genre has changed. 

    Many feel that it is better (hence the market grew), some feel that it is worse and they are out. Isn't that how markets evolve?
    I think the very word 'evolve' HAS to imply something goes out because its not as good as another option.

    Thus I dont think 'Evolve' can be a true neutral statement that just means change
    And "good" is subjective.

    So certainly MMOs has evolved for many players. Do you dispute that many like MMOs more like games, and less like the old classical mmorpgs?
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772

    Amathe said:
    It will evolve when a developer is bold enough to build a game that people will like, even if such people do not yet know they will like it. 
    Great .. so MMO has evolved.

    LoL is well liked. WoT is well liked. Otherwise these games won't be so successful. 
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016

    Amathe said:
    It will evolve when a developer is bold enough to build a game that people will like, even if such people do not yet know they will like it. 
    Great .. so MMO has evolved.

    LoL is well liked. WoT is well liked. Otherwise these games won't be so successful. 
    its almost never that simple of an equation. People grossly underestimate the power of marketing. example: Apple vs Samsung

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    SEANMCAD said:
    Flyte27 said:
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    Many might argue it has devolved instead of evolved to include the lowest common denominator.
    That is just semantics. One man's "evolution" is another man's "devolution". But you can't deny that the genre has changed. 

    Many feel that it is better (hence the market grew), some feel that it is worse and they are out. Isn't that how markets evolve?
    I think the very word 'evolve' HAS to imply something goes out because its not as good as another option.

    Thus I dont think 'Evolve' can be a true neutral statement that just means change

    Yes and No. I mean you would assume evolution is the development of something beneficial. However, it's highly contextual. I mean there's a reason that humans evolved with different amounts of body hair depending on our climate, for instance.

    I mean there are games out now, like Destiny and The Division, which are straddling the line between MMO and Lobby game, but that could be out of necessity. Do people, in general, have less attention span now? I feel like there are fewer people who will commit to a single game. It's why the payment models have evolved, too. I don't think that the majority of people want a 6-hour gaming session these days. So the whole Lobby w/ persistent universe could be the next evolution of MMOs (even if you don't want to call it an MMO).  


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    SEANMCAD said:

    Amathe said:
    It will evolve when a developer is bold enough to build a game that people will like, even if such people do not yet know they will like it. 
    Great .. so MMO has evolved.

    LoL is well liked. WoT is well liked. Otherwise these games won't be so successful. 
    its almost never that simple of an equation. People grossly underestimate the power of marketing. example: Apple vs Samsung
    So you are not disputing that those games are well liked. So now you are saying being "liked" is not enough to say the genre has evolved? 

    So what if the marketing is done well. That is part of the evolution, by your definition. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    CrazKanuk said:
     So the whole Lobby w/ persistent universe could be the next evolution of MMOs (even if you don't want to call it an MMO).  

    The whole point of evolution is change. If it changes enough, obviously some here will blow a fuse if you still call the final product a MMO.

    But isn't that exactly what evolution means? Monkeys evolve into humans. MMOs evolve into some other type of online games. Sounds exactly like evolution to me. 

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    CrazKanuk said:
     So the whole Lobby w/ persistent universe could be the next evolution of MMOs (even if you don't want to call it an MMO).  

    The whole point of evolution is change.
    no its not.

    evolution implies change for the better, not just any change.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,919
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    just to help you along .. Those arent MMORPGs , those of eachseperate genre from the one being discussed .. Stay on topic or leave the thread..
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016
    Scorchien said:
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    just to help you along .. Those arent MMORPGs , those of eachseperate genre from the one being discussed .. Stay on topic or leave the thread..
    DUDE!

    that is what evolution is

    you cant talk about evolution and say what something evolves into is off topic

    or maybe you knew that was a logic non-starter already

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,919
    edited February 2016
    SEANMCAD said:
    Scorchien said:
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    just to help you along .. Those arent MMORPGs , those of eachseperate genre from the one being discussed .. Stay on topic or leave the thread..
    DUDE!

    that is what evolution is

    you cant talk about evolution and say what something evolves into is off topic

    or maybe you knew that was a logic non-starter already
    DUde !!   clearly the OP started a discussion about MMORPgs .. read his post .. MobAS , Instanced PvP and Non massivley .. are clearly not part of that genre and are of there own genre .. MoBAS for ex.. evolved from Warcraft 3 for ex..  Instanced PvP from Doom , CS etc .. you get it ... clearly not MMORPGs now are they  ...
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,952
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    The genre didn't evolve into MOBA.  MOBA came from RTS genre on a totally separate branch of gaming.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,169
    CrazKanuk said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Flyte27 said:
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
    Many might argue it has devolved instead of evolved to include the lowest common denominator.
    That is just semantics. One man's "evolution" is another man's "devolution". But you can't deny that the genre has changed. 

    Many feel that it is better (hence the market grew), some feel that it is worse and they are out. Isn't that how markets evolve?
    I think the very word 'evolve' HAS to imply something goes out because its not as good as another option.

    Thus I dont think 'Evolve' can be a true neutral statement that just means change

    Yes and No. I mean you would assume evolution is the development of something beneficial. However, it's highly contextual. I mean there's a reason that humans evolved with different amounts of body hair depending on our climate, for instance.

    Something can evolve into a form that guarantees its extinction.

    Evolving  doesn't mean that something has changed to the positive. It's change for the better or worse.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    laserit said:


    Something can evolve into a form that guarantees its extinction.

    Evolving  doesn't mean that something has changed to the positive. It's change for the better or worse.
    that would be incorrect.

    a virus that 'evolves' into a more deadly killing machine is in fact evolving into something better for itself.

    Darwin didnt write his books to try and proove things change. It was explicitly suggesting change in a certain way.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,825
    edited February 2016
    SEANMCAD said:
    I think the very word 'evolve' HAS to imply something goes out because its not as good as another option.
    Yep, thus current games are better than the previous generation(s)...
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,952
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:


    Something can evolve into a form that guarantees its extinction.

    Evolving  doesn't mean that something has changed to the positive. It's change for the better or worse.
    that would be incorrect.

    a virus that 'evolves' into a more deadly killing machine is in fact evolving into something better for itself.

    Darwin didnt write his books to try and proove things change. It was explicitly suggesting change in a certain way.

    Becoming more deadly can be a negative if your host all die and you lack a host.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:


    Something can evolve into a form that guarantees its extinction.

    Evolving  doesn't mean that something has changed to the positive. It's change for the better or worse.
    that would be incorrect.

    a virus that 'evolves' into a more deadly killing machine is in fact evolving into something better for itself.

    Darwin didnt write his books to try and proove things change. It was explicitly suggesting change in a certain way.

    Becoming more deadly can be a negative if your host all die and you lack a host.
    personally I think you just are insulting the hard work of Darwin and for some reason I find that insulting.

    He was EXPLICTLY explaining changes of a SPECIFIC kind not 'just any old random change whatever bro'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,952
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:


    Something can evolve into a form that guarantees its extinction.

    Evolving  doesn't mean that something has changed to the positive. It's change for the better or worse.
    that would be incorrect.

    a virus that 'evolves' into a more deadly killing machine is in fact evolving into something better for itself.

    Darwin didnt write his books to try and proove things change. It was explicitly suggesting change in a certain way.

    Becoming more deadly can be a negative if your host all die and you lack a host.
    personally I think you just are insulting the hard work of Darwin and for some reason I find that insulting.

    He was EXPLICTLY explaining changes of a SPECIFIC kind not 'just any old random change whatever bro'
    All evolution isn't positive. Some lead to dead ends.  Some create a fragile niche that dies with the slightest environmental change.  Survival changes can throw off the balance. 
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,169
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:


    Something can evolve into a form that guarantees its extinction.

    Evolving  doesn't mean that something has changed to the positive. It's change for the better or worse.
    that would be incorrect.

    a virus that 'evolves' into a more deadly killing machine is in fact evolving into something better for itself.

    Darwin didnt write his books to try and proove things change. It was explicitly suggesting change in a certain way.

    We evolved over the past couple billion years from something like an Amoeba.

     So tell me:

    Tomorrow... we might very well destroy ourselves along with 96% of all the other species on the planet. Many great minds believe the odds are stacked against us.

    So under your terms:

     If the Amoeba survives and we don't. Did we evolve from the Amoeba or did we devolve from it?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,785
    I think the genre needs to evolve but hasn't yet. There's still a market for the MMORPG, yet no one seems to be able to fill the void with anything substantial. Players want a new game but developers don't seem to know what exactly it is players want. So, there are no new major titles due to release any time soon.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016


    All evolution isn't positive. Some lead to dead ends.  Some create a fragile niche that dies with the slightest environmental change.  Survival changes can throw off the balance. 
    so you disagree with the idea that when someone says 'its evolving' that they are nearly aways refering to 'its evoliving for the better'(better for what is debatable) I dont think you are having issue with me. I think you are having issue on how the word is commonly used by the vast majority of people and we can debate the meaning of words but for the sake of communication objectives its often better to just go with the more commonly understood meaning of a word rather than trying to debate it and getting waaaaaay off topic.

    I can assure you when people say 'its evolving' they dont mean 'in any random diretion whatseover'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    could we end this silly debate of the word and just replace what he said with 'improving' instead of 'evolving' so that we can get back on topic?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

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