Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

When will the genre truly evolve?

2456789

Comments

  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436
    ...
    What the genre is missing is a AAA sandbox MMORPG or a AAA hybrid MMORPG. In the entire history of the genre, we've never had either. In the same way that WoW took the EQ formula and streamlined it for the masses, we need a AAA developer to take the UO / SWG formula and streamline that for the masses. It would be a big risk which is primarily why it probably hasn't happened, but it is doable. 
    THIS !
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,617
    Two things holding the genre back money and incompetence.
    We already see that even with massive public funding Chris Roberts an established veteran cannot do the job properly and wastes a lot of money.

    Other developers,ones that might have really nice ideas don't have the money and even if they did,would they really fit a massive bill on a chance their good ideas sell,not likely.

    So instead 99% of the developers are looking for some cheap gimmick and some cheap angle to pull it off.I am certain someone will create some new shallow genre,similar to moba's and just as cheap to pull off.
    Bottom line is it costs a lot of money and a lot of talent,neither of which seem to be readily available.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,952
    When and if the money flows in a new direction.  Likely if an indie MMORPG does a good showing in a new or old direction.   Many branches of the genre are still in the 90s in term of development. 
  • PopplePopple Member UncommonPosts: 239

    When will the genre truly evolve?


    Well with 108 million dollars spent for one game..I believe it will never happen... :p

    I retired retroactively..Haha

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,168
    edited February 2016
    Wizardry said:
    Two things holding the genre back money and incompetence.
    We already see that even with massive public funding Chris Roberts an established veteran cannot do the job properly and wastes a lot of money.

    First one is right.... 

    The second one is always open for debate as "incompetence" often is just a different way of saying "not to my liking" making it hard to know what is what.... I´d say that studios like Digital Homicide and Cobra studios... They are incompetent. Most indie developer on steam greenlight are pretty incompetent (not out of any malice but simply lack of knowledge/experience)

    Most big studios are not really incompetent per se, they are just "slaves" under to many conflicting directives. Investors, focus groups, communities, CEO´s, Lead designers, project managers, interestgroups and last but not least a unhealthy level of social constructs about what is "right" 

    But as i said money is the key motivator for the evolution of games, because we the audience always crave something new (as long as it is not to new) 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Wurm Online

    People need to stop looking to AAA for answers, AAA on a good day are followers not leaders

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,911
    SEANMCAD said:
    Wurm Online

    People need to stop looking to AAA for answers, AAA on a good day are followers not leaders
      Wurm online altho full of great features and ideas , needs to evolve itslef , as it is a clumsy,awkward,cumbersome ,slow game experience  that drives most people away that take the time to try it
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,231
    Money is the motivator for the publisher or the investor - not necessarily the developer.

    In my experience, most entertainment evolution has come around primarily because of passionate developers and talented artists.

    It's true that they need funding, but simply throwing money at something doesn't mean it'll evolve anything. Getting a large return also doesn't mean your product is actually an evolution.

    In fact, I think games like SWtOR is evidence that money doesn't always equate to evolution or a better game.

    Not that SWtOR is bad, mind you.

    No, I think passion and talent is what will motivate evolution. At such time as an investor is willing to take a chance on the "next big step" - that's when we'll see the greater changes. But without talent and passion, the publishers/investors don't stand a chance at all - which is why I personally think most MMOs in the past 10 years have failed to bring about a revolution. The investors haven't had the necessary courage yet - or maybe the talent and passion has simply gone away from the genre.

    That said, I don't predict failure for games like Star Citizen as most of you seem to. I think it has a lot of potential - if it's ever finished. Certainly a bold vision, if nothing else.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,911
    When a game like Pantheon can hopefully hit a home run as a viable successful subbed base model , this may steer some of the money away from the P2w cash shop crap games we have been being fed for 10 years ... Towards some developers that actually want to create content that is engaging and immersive, And not spend there time and resources on creating clever ways to get into your wallet ..
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,168
    edited February 2016
    Scorchien said:
    When a game like Pantheon can hopefully hit a home run as a viable successful subbed base model , this may steer some of the money away from the P2w cash shop crap games we have been being fed for 10 years ... Towards some developers that actually want to create content that is engaging and immersive, And not spend there time and resources on creating clever ways to get into your wallet ..
    But as we noted earlier... that ha nothing to do with evolution.... in fact it is in some way the opposite. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016
    Scorchien said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Wurm Online

    People need to stop looking to AAA for answers, AAA on a good day are followers not leaders
      Wurm online altho full of great features and ideas , needs to evolve itslef , as it is a clumsy,awkward,cumbersome ,slow game experience  that drives most people away that take the time to try it
    which is the equivalent of hiring an HTML designer to clean up the website the .Net developer created to perfection.

    in other words its a very good game design and engine that just needs to hire some low priced polishers.

    AAA on the other hand need a MAJOR un-F of design and overall philosophy.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Righteous_RockRighteous_Rock Member RarePosts: 1,234
    I think Trove is an evolution, I think Trove has room to grow and could do so by creating different server types. Trove if you're not aware is a combination of minecraft and mmorpg, it lets the players make the game, now if only some server types could be added and game modes, Trove could be the evolution but you have to check it out.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,816
    SEANMCAD said:
    which is the equivalent of hiring an HTML designer to clean up the website the .Net developer created to perfection.

    in other words its a very good game design and engine that just needs to hire some low priced polishers.

    AAA on the other hand need a MAJOR un-F of design and overall philosophy.

    This reminds me Dominic Fillion(Blizzard) quote:
    "With us it seems to be the other way around. 80 per cent of our effort goes into the final 20 per cent of polish."

    Things seems very easy and simple when you lack the insight how stuff works under the hood....
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    I think Trove is an evolution, I think Trove has room to grow and could do so by creating different server types. Trove if you're not aware is a combination of minecraft and mmorpg, it lets the players make the game, now if only some server types could be added and game modes, Trove could be the evolution but you have to check it out.
    personally I would look at other voxel based games. Mainly because Trove I think is made by a AAA firm which means they are just copying interesting things that are happening in the Voxel indie market :)

    I joke but I dont joke.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,912
    It has evolved. Into single player cash shops.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I feel that MMORPG developers are still chasing mainstream success because of pressure from publishers and people who min-max corporate revenue streams.

    There is no room to have a successful game (by quality standards) any more because success is strictly measured in return on investment rather than player base sentiment. It's an uncaring numbers game.

    Developers are too scared to fail and take accountability for failure so nothing daring will come from AAA studios. What's left are the smaller teams who don't have the financial backing to do epic titles due to the monetary restrictions. They turn to Kickstarter and most of these guys have no business savvy or ethics and the crowd funding goes fubar.

    It's not much different than the film industry these days. We're either going to get huge trash or super tiny gems. A good success story from the MMORPG genre won't come until there's a filthy rich fan who opens up their wallet and isn't hard coded into making the most money for the littlest amount of investment and effort.

    I really don't see that happening so the regression will continue.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SteelhelmSteelhelm Member UncommonPosts: 330
    This is my understanding of the topic:

    MMOs as a genre need not be skill based.
    The roots of MMOs are in MUDs. (Though I've never played one)
    The roots of RPG are in Pen and paper games, most notably Dungeons and Dragons.

    The roots of MUDs are in single player games.
    Single player games roots are in multiplayer games roots.

    You can do anything in an RP game. Or can you? Can you swim in a metal armor? Do you're clothes get wet when it rains? How does that affect your ability to move? If you stay too long in the rain, you might get sick. Is this true? How long can you hold your breath? What happens if you don't eat? Do you get hot in the desert? What does sunlight do to vampires? How long does recovery from a serious injury take?

    All these and millions of other question are out there to be explored...

    And developers need to start answering question like these. When we get a dynamic living breathing world to live and operate in, perhaps then the genre has evolved...


    Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Steelhelm said:
    This is my understanding of the topic:

    MMOs as a genre need not be skill based.
    The roots of MMOs are in MUDs. (Though I've never played one)
    The roots of RPG are in Pen and paper games, most notably Dungeons and Dragons.

    The roots of MUDs are in single player games.
    Single player games roots are in multiplayer games roots.

    You can do anything in an RP game. Or can you? Can you swim in a metal armor? Do you're clothes get wet when it rains? How does that affect your ability to move? If you stay too long in the rain, you might get sick. Is this true? How long can you hold your breath? What happens if you don't eat? Do you get hot in the desert? What does sunlight do to vampires? How long does recovery from a serious injury take?

    All these and millions of other question are out there to be explored...

    And developers need to start answering question like these. When we get a dynamic living breathing world to live and operate in, perhaps then the genre has evolved...
    I wish they would focus on such things as well, but it seems the majority of people would rather the money be invested in making things as quick and easy as possible. 

    When RPGs started these types of features were in the games, but they have been stripped out more and more since hitting mass market appeal.
  • PangscarPangscar Member UncommonPosts: 36
    edited February 2016

    Its in the indie devs and their niche games. They are really the only ones willing to think and build out of the box, yet they don't get the attention they deserve because of name recognition or lack thereof. We would rather play another copy cat themepark game because it has a big name and big budget attached to it then give a try to a lesser known dev and game.

    So ask when will the genre evolve? When the players are willing to let it evolve.

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,157
    edited February 2016
    We got more problems.

    We are now stuck in a place where the only up coming mmorpg are indie ones with no budget, or pay to win from asia.

    There are basically no budget from any mmorpg besides asian ones(which all have greedy cash shop).

    But if you have a few thousands dollar, I suggest you try Archegae.  That might be the revolution mmorpg you are looking for.



  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,911
    tawess said:
    Scorchien said:
    When a game like Pantheon can hopefully hit a home run as a viable successful subbed base model , this may steer some of the money away from the P2w cash shop crap games we have been being fed for 10 years ... Towards some developers that actually want to create content that is engaging and immersive, And not spend there time and resources on creating clever ways to get into your wallet ..
    But as we noted earlier... that ha nothing to do with evolution.... in fact it is in some way the opposite. 
    I think you got your pronouns all fucked up , as i am not in your "WE"....

      Pantheon , if you watch and read all there info , is at least trying to tweak some new mechanics and ideas ..... And with success can help the genre move away from all the same crap mechainics that the current crop of P2W cash shops have become accustomed to , its the the same thing over and over . with no new ideas at all accpet how to invade your wallet ..Thats what they are spending there time developing..

      Aside from that there really isnt a whole lot that you can expect as "NEW" ideas its really the same stuff but tweaked since the original generation of MMOS (UO,AC,SWG)

      If you are waiting to actually smell a Troll Fart  in game, dont hold yer breath .. as it wont be happening for a long time ..
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,096
    The gaming industry is much the same as the music and movie industries: They go with what makes money...They have a formula for success and they'd rather go with that than invest 100 million in something unknown.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016
    The gaming industry is much the same as the music and movie industries: They go with what makes money...They have a formula for success and they'd rather go with that than invest 100 million in something unknown.
    its a little more than that.

    They also focus on game play that works well with young impressionable minds, look for the simpler options on what is popular and trys to get people to ignore what the other options are.

    Its not as cut and dry as a voting system in which all designs are represented fairly and they simply pick the most popular one. There is a lot of manipulation involved as well 

    or to borrow a phrase
    'manufacturing consent'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • wolfpack2012wolfpack2012 Member UncommonPosts: 42
    Rusque said:
    They are evolving, some people just don't like what they're evolving into. If you claim to want progress and then bring up anything pertaining to SWG, EQ, UO, DAOC or OWPvP Sandbox you're not looking for evolution, you're looking for regression. That's going backwards, not forwards.

    So do you actually want the genre to evolve or do you want it to return to its roots and then evolve from there in a different direction than it did?
     I personally would like them to return to their roots and evolve from there in a different direction. Games back in <2005 would last people a year at least. Games now are 2 or 3 months before people are bored to hell and jump ship.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    DKLond said:
    In my mind, the genre has been more or less stagnant for many years.


    the genre has already evolved and moved onto MOBAs, instanced pvp games, and non-massively MP online games. 

    It may not be going where you want it to go, but you can't claim that it has not changed.
Sign In or Register to comment.