EXCLUSIVE: Dissecting the Skill System - Crowfall

System

EXCLUSIVE: Dissecting the Skill System - Crowfall

In this exclusive video, ArtCraft's Thomas Blair goes through the game's newly implemented skill tree, and explains how it will function when players dive into the game later this year. Watch and learn!

Read the full story here

Wighty

So time based (Eve style) is the only option?
Not for nuthin but I really despise this type of system as it favors early adopters (in this case me) and discourages latecomers.

Can you actively train skill while actually playing the game... or is it one of those things where I can set a few skills not play for weeks on end and come back fully loaded.
It's sad, because systems like this actually encourage NOT playing...

Nilden

Wighty said:

So time based (Eve style) is the only option?
Not for nuthin but I really despise this type of system as it favors early adopters (in this case me) and discourages latecomers.

Can you actively train skill while actually playing the game... or is it one of those things where I can set a few skills not play for weeks on end and come back fully loaded.
It's sad, because systems like this actually encourage NOT playing...

I agree. The time based element is a really bad design. Players should be rewarded for playing the game, not have to log out and wait for skills to train.

xenorace

You lost me at log off and wait for my skills to train itself.

mcrippins

Sadly I have to agree. I don't see why you can't simply train the skill by doing the action, or at the very least, make playing the game train the skill faster.

I see myself logging in, selecting skills to train, and then logging out. Not a positive imo.

flguy147

Reminds me of what i am doing in ESO right now with researching traits.  So i guess if you work from home then you level up faster cause you can log on and  check to see if you need to train during the day by a click of a button.  WTF hahaha

TiamatRoar

I remember several games where the majority of progression is time-based.  It really becomes a question of "Why am I even playing this game when logging off gives me the same progression?" after a while with systems like that.

Mitara

Such a great opportunity to make a good system and then....

Arkade99

The benefit of passive training is that there is no grinding for XP. This is a PvP game, not a PvE game. Making players grind mobs to level up is counterproductive. They want players to spend their time doing things that are related to winning the campaign (capturing and holding POIs, building defenses, ambushing caravans, etc).

For those who say that it favors early adopters, you're wrong. The earlier skill levels give more power than the later skill levels, and are much quicker to achieve. Going from 0-50 in a skill will be quicker and give more power than going from 50-100.

Also, the vessel system helps to level the playing field. The quality of the vessel will determine the maximum skill level that you can use. So even if you have a skill trained to 200, if you are wearing a common vessel, you only get the power as though the skill is at 100. Because of this, many people might not train skills past 100 until they've gotten all the skill they want.

The overall power curve is much more shallow than in level based games. A maxed out character isn't going to be 100 times stronger than a new character. Skill based combat will enable players to beat other players with better stats. It doesn't matter how much harder your attacks hit if I block or avoid your attacks.

Franciscourant

Arkade99 said:

The benefit of passive training is that there is no grinding for XP. This is a PvP game, not a PvE game. Making players grind mobs to level up is counterproductive. They want players to spend their time doing things that are related to winning the campaign (capturing and holding POIs, building defenses, ambushing caravans, etc).

There are other active training options, rather than PvE grinding, that would work in a PvP oriented games. One example of this kind of active training systems suited for PvP games (probably requires a lot more resources to implement correctly than passive training though): http://camelot.gamepedia.com/Progression_System

Arkade99 said:

For those who say that it favors early adopters, you're wrong. The earlier skill levels give more power than the later skill levels, and are much quicker to achieve. Going from 0-50 in a skill will be quicker and give more power than going from 50-100.

Yea, but veterans are still ahead, no matter how we look at it. Of course if a veteran is putting all his skill points in 100+ skills and it takes forever to level, while the newbie puts all his points in 0-50, then I agree, in this very particular situation, maybe the newbie would catch up after a long time.

Arkade99 said:

Also, the vessel system helps to level the playing field. The quality of the vessel will determine the maximum skill level that you can use. So even if you have a skill trained to 200, if you are wearing a common vessel, you only get the power as though the skill is at 100. Because of this, many people might not train skills past 100 until they've gotten all the skill they want.

True. Those who owns the best vessels will have access to highest skills. One problem I see with this is that the best vessels can be acquired by trading cash shop items or VIP tickets to other players.

Arkade99 said:

The overall power curve is much more shallow than in level based games. A maxed out character isn't going to be 100 times stronger than a new character. Skill based combat will enable players to beat other players with better stats. It doesn't matter how much harder your attacks hit if I block or avoid your attacks.

It's only when we will add up the EK buffs (artifacts + relics), vessels stats, runes stats, character creation stats, gear stats, universal and archetype specific stats, promotion classes stats, passive power stats and other various stats in game that we will know what's the difference of power between a weak and a strong character. Right now it's only speculation imo.

Pangscar

To clarify skills train whether you are online or offline. Its not offline training, its passive training. Like said above it pretty much removes the lvl grind as in you don't have to do a boring part of the game before you can play the real game. You can start playing the real game from the first second you log into the game.

Its not for everyone for sure but personally I'm just tired of the same old themepark quest grinders we've been fed for years already.

carloponti

TiamatRoar said:

"Why am I even playing this game when logging off gives me the same progression?"

You don't play this kind of game to progress your toon.
You play it to "crush your enemies, loot their corpses, and hear the lamentation of their crafters".
You progress your toon because it helps you achieve objectives.
The point of Crowfall is to win, amass wealth and influence in the game, and bathe in the tears of those who don't understand the thrill of PvP.

TiamatRoar

carloponti said:

TiamatRoar said:

"Why am I even playing this game when logging off gives me the same progression?"

You don't play this kind of game to progress your toon.
You play it to "crush your enemies, loot their corpses, and hear the lamentation of their crafters".
You progress your toon because it helps you achieve objectives.
The point of Crowfall is to win, amass wealth and influence in the game, and bathe in the tears of those who don't understand the thrill of PvP.

Well, for the sake of the game, hopefully those enemies will actually be logged on for people to crush, loot their corpses, and hear the lamentation of their crafters.  Since it's not like they have to be around in order to train their skills up.

Character progression is one of several primary reasons players log on to an MMO and play it.  Without character progression requiring players to play the game, that's one less aspect and carrot the Crowfall team can use to get players (and victims, enemies, lambs, and prey) to get into the game, so they'd better have some really awesome things up their sleeves in regards to other aspects of the game to get their playerbase to actually be logged on inside it for the wolves to have something to hunt.

Pangscar

TiamatRoar said:

carloponti said:

TiamatRoar said:

"Why am I even playing this game when logging off gives me the same progression?"

You don't play this kind of game to progress your toon.
You play it to "crush your enemies, loot their corpses, and hear the lamentation of their crafters".
You progress your toon because it helps you achieve objectives.
The point of Crowfall is to win, amass wealth and influence in the game, and bathe in the tears of those who don't understand the thrill of PvP.

Well, for the sake of the game, hopefully those enemies will actually be logged on for people to crush, loot their corpses, and hear the lamentation of their crafters.  Since it's not like they have to be around in order to train their skills up.

Character progression is one of several primary reasons players log on to an MMO and play it.  Without character progression requiring players to play the game, that's one less aspect and carrot the Crowfall team can use to get players (and victims, enemies, lambs, and prey) to get into the game, so they'd better have some really awesome things up their sleeves in regards to other aspects of the game to get their playerbase to actually be logged on inside it for the wolves to have something to hunt.

Need to change your mindset of past game. If this was another themepark quest/level grinder game sure progression is the selling factor, you level up a toon hit the hard cap and either quit the game or do it all over again with another class. Fun for some I guess but not for the audience Crowfall is trying to appeal to. Personally been playing these game since EQ and I'm ready to get off the exp grind merry-go-round.

In this game the point is to actually play the game, and be able to do so from day 1. The focus is on the game play and content not a lvl or skill point grind. Besides the progression aspect is still there, whats the point in progressing if not to play the game and reap the fruits of said progression.