The "herd mentality" about this project, though, is generally positive, self-propagated by the "number of contributors" and "income received" statistics. People rationalize, "because so many people have contributed and because the game has so much income, it can't possibly be bad and it's destined to succeed beyond any level of imagination". You see these numbers cited all the time by scorg, in the effort to further propagandize the project.
What "torval" or, indeed, what "adjuvant1" thinks or feels about the project will not affect the ultimate outcome of this project's success. If I understand the numbers correctly, fewer than 1% of CIG contributors post in message threads or even, as a matter of fact, bother to view the development videos. According to numbers, there's some 99% "silent majority", which is really odd, in and of itself. Therefore, we're to understand some one million people will keep the game going, "if the game, by its own merits, is good".
Does this mean I think the numbers aren't "real"? Well, define "real". I guess I cannot answer that because it's unsubstantiated and I have no leg to stand on in the argument, I'd may as well not even start. As a matter of fact, forget I said anything, and I certainly didn't say there are investors in this project being paid monthly dividends.
The "herd mentality" about this project, though, is generally positive, self-propagated by the "number of contributors" and "income received" statistics. People rationalize, "because so many people have contributed and because the game has so much income, it can't possibly be bad and it's destined to succeed beyond any level of imagination". You see these numbers cited all the time by scorg, in the effort to further propagandize the project.
What "torval" or, indeed, what "adjuvant1" thinks or feels about the project will not affect the ultimate outcome of this project's success. If I understand the numbers correctly, fewer than 1% of CIG contributors post in message threads or even, as a matter of fact, bother to view the development videos. According to numbers, there's some 99% "silent majority", which is really odd, in and of itself. Therefore, we're to understand some one million people will keep the game going, "if the game, by its own merits, is good".
Does this mean I think the numbers aren't "real"? Well, define "real". I guess I cannot answer that because it's unsubstantiated and I have no leg to stand on in the argument, I'd may as well not even start. As a matter of fact, forget I said anything, and I certainly didn't say there are investors in this project being paid monthly dividends.
First off, how can you possibly say that the herd mentality about the project is generally positive and propagated by contributors? I've seen threads surviving entirely on commentary by the, for lack of a better word, anti-heroes. In fact, I made a comment about it last week. In reality, people will see what they want to see. Until someone actually goes and counts each post and who posted it and what they "affiliation" is then you can't say one way or the other.
Secondly, why would CIG "lie" about the numbers? What purpose does it serve? It's all in the numbers. Even Derek Smart agrees that their monthly burn rate at present is likely to be in the 2.5 million area. So that's a burn of around 30 million in the past year, probably 25 or so the year before that, and probably 15-20 the year before that. Right there we're looking at anywhere between 70-75 million. Plus there was a year before that, right? Either way, and blatantly ignoring interest on investments, etc., etc. they would run out of money this year. In reality, they probably have a couple years. However, I don't know why you don't have a leg to stand on. It's simple mathematics. The money isn't materializing out of thin air. In the end, does it really matter if it's $75 or $100 million?
First off, how can you possibly say that the herd mentality about the project is generally positive and propagated by contributors? I've seen threads surviving entirely on commentary by the, for lack of a better word, anti-heroes.
Here on mmorpg, or are you including the SC subreddit and official forums? Are you talking about over the last 3 years or the last 2 months?
Secondly, why would CIG "lie" about the numbers? What purpose does it serve?
Well, they don't actually "report numbers", but rather they "report numbers that make the project look glorious". People in reddit and official forums say often, "they don't need to report financials! they're not obligated!", yet they do report some, but nowhere near enough to present a clear depiction.
Why do they only report "certain" numbers in a vague format? What purpose does it serve? Why haven't we seen lists of expenditures, or an explanation why exactly there are 14 different embodiments shuffling around assets? Why are people granted "some data" and forced to speculate on the rest? Why, if it's none of our business, do they bother to post any numbers at all?
First off, how can you possibly say that the herd mentality about the project is generally positive and propagated by contributors? I've seen threads surviving entirely on commentary by the, for lack of a better word, anti-heroes.
Here on mmorpg, or are you including the SC subreddit and official forums? Are you talking about over the last 3 years or the last 2 months?
Secondly, why would CIG "lie" about the numbers? What purpose does it serve?
Well, they don't actually "report numbers", but rather they "report numbers that make the project look glorious". People in reddit and official forums say often, "they don't need to report financials! they're not obligated!", yet they do report some, but nowhere near enough to present a clear depiction.
Why do they only report "certain" numbers in a vague format? What purpose does it serve? Why haven't we seen lists of expenditures, or an explanation why exactly there are 14 different embodiments shuffling around assets? Why are people granted "some data" and forced to speculate on the rest? Why, if it's none of our business, do they bother to post any numbers at all?
Because it makes them look good/successful, hoping it instills confidence in potential backers in turn it broadens the numbers contributing to their campaign? That would be my guess anyway...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First off, how can you possibly say that the herd mentality about the project is generally positive and propagated by contributors? I've seen threads surviving entirely on commentary by the, for lack of a better word, anti-heroes.
Here on mmorpg, or are you including the SC subreddit and official forums? Are you talking about over the last 3 years or the last 2 months?
Secondly, why would CIG "lie" about the numbers? What purpose does it serve?
Well, they don't actually "report numbers", but rather they "report numbers that make the project look glorious". People in reddit and official forums say often, "they don't need to report financials! they're not obligated!", yet they do report some, but nowhere near enough to present a clear depiction.
Why do they only report "certain" numbers in a vague format? What purpose does it serve? Why haven't we seen lists of expenditures, or an explanation why exactly there are 14 different embodiments shuffling around assets? Why are people granted "some data" and forced to speculate on the rest? Why, if it's none of our business, do they bother to post any numbers at all?
I'm talking here specifically. I don't think that my brain can withstand the reddit conversations from what little I've been subjected to. However, I'll bet I could make a real simple Python scraper to..... DAMNIT!! Now it's in the brain. It'll only be a matter of time now.
On the second point, it DID make them look good. However, the larger the numbers get, the more incompetent they appear, and then more refunds they'll be forced to process. If they say No then people will simply charge it back and they'll likely have their merchant privileges revoked, at least for the time being.
The reason they don't post more detailed financials is because people will speculate regardless of what they are provided. There are plenty of expenditures which a completely legitimate costs of doing business today which people take issue with. Things like catered lunches, snacks, beverages, parties, etc., etc. All frills which are "unnecessary". However, as the negative propaganda increases, so does the need for these frills (and that's just complete speculations, I don't know if any of that exists). Regardless, people would lose their shit! That's just the tip of the iceberg too. Again, people want to see something they don't understand. "Open your books!!!!" they say, but they have no idea what they're even looking at. They have no idea about the costs associated with running a business, why people need what, etc., etc.
It's honestly like someone in grade 3 Math saying, "HEY!!! Why are you hiding all of the trigonometry from me!!! I've heard about it and it sounds important!!!"
So, while I appreciate the argument, and you're not wrong, it's presenting information which SHOULD be easily understood by 100% of the people and not muddying it with additional information that would be understood by 1% (liberally) of the population because, then, we know how it goes, the 1% tells the other 99% their truths and the 99% makes a determination based on their understanding of the gospel, not the truth.
Oh, and just so we're entirely clear, the gospel for both extremes is wrong.
* won Computer Gaming World's Overall Game of the Year award * ranked as amongst the ten best PC video games of all time * were included on the list 16 classic games that need to be remade today * were called one of the 100 greatest video games of all time, remembering its
"unprecedented detail" of graphics and calling it "a revelation * won a Guiness Book World Record
I call that a YES.
Have fun
You want to talk about CR and CIG's authority?
We have seen a CEO melt down in a letter to a news outlet. We have seen a CEO looking like a complete idiot trying to play his own game. We have seen a CEO telling his backers he is annoyed when they call his bullshit lies. We have seen a Community Manger and failed actress make a troll video.
Look, you always find some rationalization why promises are broken, you are as good at it as CR, but for people with even a little intelligence it is obvious that so far we only heard lies and they even went so far as to change websites and the TOS.
We have always planned to release in 2014 We have always planned to release in 2015 We have always planned to release in 2016 We have always planned to release in 2017 We have always planned to make 2 games. We have always planned to split SQ42 in 3 Episodes and charge for each one. We have always planned to not release Star Marine in 2015. We have always planned to not release CoOp for SQ42 We have always planned to not release VR for SQ42.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Funny that this caused such an "uproar" with the usual suspects but no one bats an eye at Elite Dangerous releasing a stand alone after the game is released for an additional price. The outrage! Oh, yeah, Derek and his minions only rail on this game. It's okay for other games to do whatever.
[mod edit]
Personally not invested in either and don't have a stake in it. but there are a few differences. Elite was to be a core game with paid x-pacs DLC(post release) like any other game. As they actually released the core game adding to it in more manageable chunks isn't actually a bad thing(hint dev houses have been doing it for decades crowd sourcing or no crowd sourcing). There isn't an mmo out there (however you define mmo) that doesn't have paid xpacs / DLC and/or content additions. For SC the same pitch was made, however the core game that was the original pitch still doesn't exist in retail. Add to that all the "extras" are more like day -365 DLC (as opposed do day 1) or an xpac for a game that hasn't even released. I don't find it odd at all that people have issues with it. For some/many/few it was ok since it was all under one umbrella, however splitting up/adding to the pricing like that before the game even exists in retail gets an unsurprising reaction. I mean hell DAY 1 $ DLC gets all kind of hate and you expect $ DLC/xpac for a game more than a year out isn't going to generate drama?
EDIT /shrugs moving targets are always harder to hit and moving your own goal post gets typical results.
* won Computer Gaming World's Overall Game of the Year award * ranked as amongst the ten best PC video games of all time * were included on the list 16 classic games that need to be remade today * were called one of the 100 greatest video games of all time, remembering its
"unprecedented detail" of graphics and calling it "a revelation * won a Guiness Book World Record
I call that a YES.
Have fun
You want to talk about CR and CIG's authority?
We have seen a CEO melt down in a letter to a news outlet. We have seen a CEO looking like a complete idiot trying to play his own game. We have seen a CEO telling his backers he is annoyed when they call his bullshit lies. We have seen a Community Manger and failed actress make a troll video.
Look, you always find some rationalization why promises are broken, you are as good at it as CR, but for people with even a little intelligence it is obvious that so far we only heard lies and they even went so far as to change websites and the TOS.
We have always planned to release in 2014 We have always planned to release in 2015 We have always planned to release in 2016 We have always planned to release in 2017 We have always planned to make 2 games. We have always planned to split SQ42 in 3 Episodes and charge for each one. We have always planned to not release Star Marine in 2015. We have always planned to not release CoOp for SQ42 We have always planned to not release VR for SQ42.
Well, can't say one couldn't see that coming from a mile away. It's like the biggest list of exaggerated nitpicks I've ever seen trying to justify some sort of internalized ball of rage.
It will be interesting if CR makes a post about this and try and calm the guys down. Normally if something like this is going on the main guy comes out and helps to calm them down. But there is nothing normal about CR!
I get a bad vibe about this game. It looks like some colossal money screw going to come down on everyone. The kind of money they are asking for everything in this game is ludicrous and the whole lose your ship/lose your money mechanic is going to be a moneygrab. No game is worth spending the kind of money this game is taking
Comments
What "torval" or, indeed, what "adjuvant1" thinks or feels about the project will not affect the ultimate outcome of this project's success. If I understand the numbers correctly, fewer than 1% of CIG contributors post in message threads or even, as a matter of fact, bother to view the development videos. According to numbers, there's some 99% "silent majority", which is really odd, in and of itself. Therefore, we're to understand some one million people will keep the game going, "if the game, by its own merits, is good".
Does this mean I think the numbers aren't "real"? Well, define "real". I guess I cannot answer that because it's unsubstantiated and I have no leg to stand on in the argument, I'd may as well not even start. As a matter of fact, forget I said anything, and I certainly didn't say there are investors in this project being paid monthly dividends.
First off, how can you possibly say that the herd mentality about the project is generally positive and propagated by contributors? I've seen threads surviving entirely on commentary by the, for lack of a better word, anti-heroes. In fact, I made a comment about it last week. In reality, people will see what they want to see. Until someone actually goes and counts each post and who posted it and what they "affiliation" is then you can't say one way or the other.
Secondly, why would CIG "lie" about the numbers? What purpose does it serve? It's all in the numbers. Even Derek Smart agrees that their monthly burn rate at present is likely to be in the 2.5 million area. So that's a burn of around 30 million in the past year, probably 25 or so the year before that, and probably 15-20 the year before that. Right there we're looking at anywhere between 70-75 million. Plus there was a year before that, right? Either way, and blatantly ignoring interest on investments, etc., etc. they would run out of money this year. In reality, they probably have a couple years. However, I don't know why you don't have a leg to stand on. It's simple mathematics. The money isn't materializing out of thin air. In the end, does it really matter if it's $75 or $100 million?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Well, they don't actually "report numbers", but rather they "report numbers that make the project look glorious". People in reddit and official forums say often, "they don't need to report financials! they're not obligated!", yet they do report some, but nowhere near enough to present a clear depiction.
Why do they only report "certain" numbers in a vague format? What purpose does it serve? Why haven't we seen lists of expenditures, or an explanation why exactly there are 14 different embodiments shuffling around assets? Why are people granted "some data" and forced to speculate on the rest? Why, if it's none of our business, do they bother to post any numbers at all?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
On the second point, it DID make them look good. However, the larger the numbers get, the more incompetent they appear, and then more refunds they'll be forced to process. If they say No then people will simply charge it back and they'll likely have their merchant privileges revoked, at least for the time being.
The reason they don't post more detailed financials is because people will speculate regardless of what they are provided. There are plenty of expenditures which a completely legitimate costs of doing business today which people take issue with. Things like catered lunches, snacks, beverages, parties, etc., etc. All frills which are "unnecessary". However, as the negative propaganda increases, so does the need for these frills (and that's just complete speculations, I don't know if any of that exists). Regardless, people would lose their shit! That's just the tip of the iceberg too. Again, people want to see something they don't understand. "Open your books!!!!" they say, but they have no idea what they're even looking at. They have no idea about the costs associated with running a business, why people need what, etc., etc.
It's honestly like someone in grade 3 Math saying, "HEY!!! Why are you hiding all of the trigonometry from me!!! I've heard about it and it sounds important!!!"
So, while I appreciate the argument, and you're not wrong, it's presenting information which SHOULD be easily understood by 100% of the people and not muddying it with additional information that would be understood by 1% (liberally) of the population because, then, we know how it goes, the 1% tells the other 99% their truths and the 99% makes a determination based on their understanding of the gospel, not the truth.
Oh, and just so we're entirely clear, the gospel for both extremes is wrong.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
We have seen a CEO melt down in a letter to a news outlet.
We have seen a CEO looking like a complete idiot trying to play his own game.
We have seen a CEO telling his backers he is annoyed when they call his bullshit lies.
We have seen a Community Manger and failed actress make a troll video.
Look, you always find some rationalization why promises are broken, you are as good at it as CR, but for people with even a little intelligence it is obvious that so far we only heard lies and they even went so far as to change websites and the TOS.
We have always planned to release in 2014
We have always planned to release in 2015
We have always planned to release in 2016
We have always planned to release in 2017
We have always planned to make 2 games.
We have always planned to split SQ42 in 3 Episodes and charge for each one.
We have always planned to not release Star Marine in 2015.
We have always planned to not release CoOp for SQ42
We have always planned to not release VR for SQ42.
All courtesy of the Ministry of Truth.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Personally not invested in either and don't have a stake in it. but there are a few differences. Elite was to be a core game with paid x-pacs DLC(post release) like any other game. As they actually released the core game adding to it in more manageable chunks isn't actually a bad thing(hint dev houses have been doing it for decades crowd sourcing or no crowd sourcing). There isn't an mmo out there (however you define mmo) that doesn't have paid xpacs / DLC and/or content additions. For SC the same pitch was made, however the core game that was the original pitch still doesn't exist in retail. Add to that all the "extras" are more like day -365 DLC (as opposed do day 1) or an xpac for a game that hasn't even released. I don't find it odd at all that people have issues with it. For some/many/few it was ok since it was all under one umbrella, however splitting up/adding to the pricing like that before the game even exists in retail gets an unsurprising reaction. I mean hell DAY 1 $ DLC gets all kind of hate and you expect $ DLC/xpac for a game more than a year out isn't going to generate drama?
EDIT
/shrugs moving targets are always harder to hit and moving your own goal post gets typical results.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6375010/#Comment_6375010
edit: The dogpile is funny, though, like you're carrying a coupon for a free buggy skin through the stimpire.
edit 2: ((buzzer sound)) Probation!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
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