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Star Citizen and Squadron 42 split - now you suddenly have to buy second one.

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  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Looks like they're about ready to kick the Squadron 42 hype machine into high gear.

    This split of the 2 products is needed to allow SQ42 to be marketed as a stand-alone single-player game. It was always intended to be a standalone, set in the same universe but a self-contained story.

    There will probaly be a tie-in with something like including SC access or perks as a bonus when pre-ordering SQ42. That will rope-in a whole bunch of potential players who've been reluctant to back SC until now, because they're primarily interested in playing SQ42.
    It was advertised as a game mode during the kick starter, not a separate game. To now push it off as a separate game is some crooked ass shit.
    Well now that they had to eliminate SM because of copyright they had to do something. But I agree this whole scam is starting to fall apart. I give them 2 or 3 more months and then one day people will wake up and the whole thing will go poof.
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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Looks like they're about ready to kick the Squadron 42 hype machine into high gear.

    This split of the 2 products is needed to allow SQ42 to be marketed as a stand-alone single-player game. It was always intended to be a standalone, set in the same universe but a self-contained story.

    There will probaly be a tie-in with something like including SC access or perks as a bonus when pre-ordering SQ42. That will rope-in a whole bunch of potential players who've been reluctant to back SC until now, because they're primarily interested in playing SQ42.
    It was advertised as a game mode during the kick starter, not a separate game. To now push it off as a separate game is some crooked ass shit.
    Squadron 42 was always going to be a self-contained single player campaign, same as the original "Wing Commander" SPG's. That's why they even hired back some of the actors that were in the original WC series.

    The intention was that you could play SQ42 entirely on its own, or use your "SQ42 military career" as an intro into the SC universe.

    SQ42 was never described as a "game mode". You may be getting confused by the FPS module (temporarily known as Star Marine), which was intended to be an instanced FPS "game mode" which could be used as a trainer in the SC PU.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,251
    edited January 2016
    Looks like they're about ready to kick the Squadron 42 hype machine into high gear.

    This split of the 2 products is needed to allow SQ42 to be marketed as a stand-alone single-player game. It was always intended to be a standalone, set in the same universe but a self-contained story.

    There will probaly be a tie-in with something like including SC access or perks as a bonus when pre-ordering SQ42. That will rope-in a whole bunch of potential players who've been reluctant to back SC until now, because they're primarily interested in playing SQ42.
    It was advertised as a game mode during the kick starter, not a separate game. To now push it off as a separate game is some crooked ass shit.
    Pretty sure this is correct, SQ42 was suppose to be the single player game mode in which could/would launch you off into the verse at the end. I am also sure it was suppose to be included with any backer pledge.

    Future updates or expansion though of this were suppose to be dlc I do believe.  Anyways its a bit cheeky if they really go on and sell "pledges" that don't include sq42.

    Maybe they should drop "pledges" after feb 14.

    All in all I think this is a bad move with all the drama going on.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    edited January 2016
    Looks like they're about ready to kick the Squadron 42 hype machine into high gear.

    This split of the 2 products is needed to allow SQ42 to be marketed as a stand-alone single-player game. It was always intended to be a standalone, set in the same universe but a self-contained story.

    There will probaly be a tie-in with something like including SC access or perks as a bonus when pre-ordering SQ42. That will rope-in a whole bunch of potential players who've been reluctant to back SC until now, because they're primarily interested in playing SQ42.
    It was advertised as a game mode during the kick starter, not a separate game. To now push it off as a separate game is some crooked ass shit.
    So they said it would be feature of SC but now they are saying it will be a different huge ass game instead of a meager feature for the same money current backers already paid for. And you are saying it is "crooked ass shit"? Nice logic, gotta love internet.

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  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082
    So much BS. This was always supposed to be you buy one game. Not 2.

    Less and less chance they will ever see any of my money down the line. Oh well. 

    Long as they can keep milking foolish people nothing will change.

    This was always supposed to be give us this certain amount to make this game. Well, passed that long ago and still they say they need more.  Why people keep forking over millions more and keeping this going is more than i can understand.

    Common sense seems to be dying if not dead where this game is concerned.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    While on the  one hand i am relieved that no longer have to bother with SQ42 in order to play in the PU, i had no interest at all in SQ42 so being able to bypass that bit of the game entirely is great, on the other, i was under the assumption it was all part of the same game, just different modules that were being made that would eventually all be tied together into one huge game, so, the thing is, now that SQ42 is no longer part of Star Citizen, what guarantees are there that the other modules aren't going to be split up in some fashion also?
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Phry said:
    ... now that SQ42 is no longer part of Star Citizen, what guarantees are there that the other modules aren't going to be split up in some fashion also?
    There's no need to worry whatsoever, because your worries are based on a misconception.

    SQ42 was not ever going to be a "module of SC". It is not suddenly being "split off" from the PU, because it was never part of the PU. It was always going to be a self-contained SPG, modeled after the Wing Commander series.

    There was talk about being able to somehow transfer your SQ42 military career experience over to the SC universe as a perk of some sort, but it was entirely optional. And that means that the perks you'd likely get in SC from finishing the SQ42 campaign would in all likelihood be purely cosmetic.
  • spankybusspankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,367
    I think they are burning through cash at a crazy rate. They have a lot of people working for them now, across several studios, all with a lot of really nice decorations. That new studio space in L.A. Must have been a fortune. I mean, it's frickin L.A.

    Upgrade tool, lets you add cash to acquire better ships.

    Downgrade tool?..."coming"...Frankly, there is no damned reason why the same tool cannot downgrade as well as upgrade. I think the real problem with the tool is it lets customers who own ships get other ships by augmenting the distribution of their invested revenue vice adding new revenue.

    The unmet tool, lets you re-buy melted packages/ships back, for new cash.

    Now, splitting the parts of the original Kickstarter into two, billable games. Frankly, I am not surprised in that both parts have become massive. Each one really is a stand-alone, game at this point. My understanding Is that all current backers still get both. Also, new backers, up until Feb. 14, will get the same. But after that, you must buy each.

    Now, this does seem to be several changes to increase revenue flow. Why? Either prudence or panic...and I have no opinion which...not knowing what's going on internally. But the current size of the team and number of offices that must have rent, electricity, business insurance, etc...someone has done the math and decided to effect these changes to their revenue model.

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  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    Looks like they're about ready to kick the Squadron 42 hype machine into high gear.

    This split of the 2 products is needed to allow SQ42 to be marketed as a stand-alone single-player game. It was always intended to be a standalone, set in the same universe but a self-contained story.

    There will probaly be a tie-in with something like including SC access or perks as a bonus when pre-ordering SQ42. That will rope-in a whole bunch of potential players who've been reluctant to back SC until now, because they're primarily interested in playing SQ42.
    It was advertised as a game mode during the kick starter, not a separate game. To now push it off as a separate game is some crooked ass shit.
    Squadron 42 was always going to be a self-contained single player campaign, same as the original "Wing Commander" SPG's. That's why they even hired back some of the actors that were in the original WC series.

    The intention was that you could play SQ42 entirely on its own, or use your "SQ42 military career" as an intro into the SC universe.

    SQ42 was never described as a "game mode". You may be getting confused by the FPS module (temporarily known as Star Marine), which was intended to be an instanced FPS "game mode" which could be used as a trainer in the SC PU.
    Here, I'll pull a Shades the Wabbit on ya.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

    About 1/3 down the page there is a section called:

    "The Reasons You'll Want to Play Star Citizen"

    Then below that you will find:

    • Squadron 42 - A Wing Commander style single player mode, playable OFFLINE if you want

    Playable offline or online, co-op with friends, you sign up for a tour of duty with the UEE fleet, manning the front lines, protecting settlements from Vanduul warbands.


    There is no way to spin doctor this into meaning something else as its pretty cut and dry.



     
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,217
    edited January 2016
    Phry said:
    While on the  one hand i am relieved that no longer have to bother with SQ42 in order to play in the PU, i had no interest at all in SQ42 so being able to bypass that bit of the game entirely is great, on the other, i was under the assumption it was all part of the same game, just different modules that were being made that would eventually all be tied together into one huge game, so, the thing is, now that SQ42 is no longer part of Star Citizen, what guarantees are there that the other modules aren't going to be split up in some fashion also?

    WHAT WILL STAR CITIZEN ULTIMATELY BE?

    Upon release, Star Citizen will have two major components: Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe. Squadron 42 is the single-player campaign for the game that allows you to work your way up to gaining citizenship and preparing you for the world. The other aspect is the Persistent Universe, the MMO portion of the game. The PU allows players to explore, interact, mine, fight, and whatever else they want to do in space. Check out the official trailer for a general idea.

    http://www.starcitizenstatus.com/


    "SC two major components" S42 and PU.  Component would imply portions of the whole would it not?


    Here's another official explanation - 

    Squadron 42

    The project also includes Squadron 42, a single player campaign that takes place within the Star Citizen universe. Able to be played off-line or with friends, you essentially sign up to fly for the UEE fleet, manning the front lines, protecting settlements from Vanduul warbands. If you prove yourself, you might get asked to join the legendary 42nd Squadron. Set up like the French Foreign Legion, they can always be found in the toughest war zones and always manage to come out on top. Once you complete your tour however, you re-enter the persistent Star Citizen universe with some money in your pocket and Citizenship to find your way.

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/17003/star-citizen-and-squadron-42-confusion

    Maybe there is a misunderstanding of  what "includes" means? Anyone care to explain?

  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 456
    Very glad I got a refund

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,447
    There were several SC stretch goals that included enhancing and improving SQ42 if they were funded to that amount... $2mil stretch goal included SQ42, $3mil upped it to 35 from 30 missions, $4mil upped it again to 45, and so on.

    I guess you funded it too well and it became too good to continue being a freebie lol.

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  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    edited January 2016
    Where is the outrage?  I'm missing it I guess.

    All current backers get both it seems? all new backers from this point forward will not...BUT they know that fact because they tell you so.

    What's wrong with this, I must be missing something because I don't get what the problem is supposed to be.  You still get Star Citizen, this other game is another wing commander type offshoot.

    I did not back this game, I planned to buy it when it's released.  As such I took zero risk, I'm ok buying 2 games for that, it's a bonus for old backers.
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,976
    I think the wrong question is being asked about this. The question is not whether they can do this nor is it that their previous kickstarter goals have changed but rather why has it changed. 

    What has happened that they want to break this into two different games so new backers will have to spend more money if they want both. What is the catalyst for this decision? Funding or lack of it could be one of the reasons but I thought they were getting backers daily and have a lot of money backing the game. Just curious I am not speculating either just interested in the motivations behind a previously generous inclusion to one where splitting the games will earn them more money.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,888
    He pitched Squadron 42 from DAY 1 and as a 6 million dollar game ,not a 100 million dollar game.He has already LONG passed that 6 million expenditure and has not delivered on anything,so to think this is anything but mismanagement and wasted spending is ridiculous.

    I am sure he is happy,he gets to play Mr.Hollywood producer and his wife gets her acting career paid for and supported with money he brings in. 

    Point being it doesn't matter WHEN he retracts his early sales pitch,this guy has not delivered on his promises and never will.Way over spending to build a 20 million dollar game ,you can hire ANY incompetent noob producer to pull that off.I am only assuming the finished product looks like a 20 mil game,he was pitching he could do it for 6 million,until he added a few hollywood stars and found some gimmicky ideas to up the budget.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • goobsnewsgoobsnews Member UncommonPosts: 216
    kitarad said:
     What is the catalyst for this decision?
    It's pretty obvious I thought, they're running out of money...and quick.
  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    kitarad said:
    I think the wrong question is being asked about this. The question is not whether they can do this nor is it that their previous kickstarter goals have changed but rather why has it changed. 

    What has happened that they want to break this into two different games so new backers will have to spend more money if they want both. What is the catalyst for this decision? Funding or lack of it could be one of the reasons but I thought they were getting backers daily and have a lot of money backing the game. Just curious I am not speculating either just interested in the motivations behind a previously generous inclusion to one where splitting the games will earn them more money.
    If they don't, they won't back the game and they will lose money right?

    The only people hurt are themselves, unless people don't really care and new backers continue to sign up.

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  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,876
    Wizardry said:
    He pitched Squadron 42 from DAY 1 and as a 6 million dollar game ,not a 100 million dollar game.He has already LONG passed that 6 million expenditure and has not delivered on anything,so to think this is anything but mismanagement and wasted spending is ridiculous.

    I am sure he is happy,he gets to play Mr.Hollywood producer and his wife gets her acting career paid for and supported with money he brings in. 

    Point being it doesn't matter WHEN he retracts his early sales pitch,this guy has not delivered on his promises and never will.Way over spending to build a 20 million dollar game ,you can hire ANY incompetent noob producer to pull that off.I am only assuming the finished product looks like a 20 mil game,he was pitching he could do it for 6 million,until he added a few hollywood stars and found some gimmicky ideas to up the budget.

    What happens if one day he comes and says : Guys we failed, we can not deliver the game.

    Will they have to return any money ?


    I really wonder ? Will they be held responsible financially in any way ? Or will they just laugh and reminisce
    how they managed to live high life on 100 million dollars for several years ?



  • MisatoTremorMisatoTremor Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Reizla said:
    Just checked my account. I pledged in 2014 and I still can't see that Squadron 42 is part of my account. No worries though... I've already given up on this thing and now that RSI is fucking it's (future) backers big time, I'm not even considering ever to look at it again... Guess Elite: Dangerous is my place to stay instead.
    You might want to double check. My Scout - LTI package still lists both Squadron 42 Digital Download and Star Citizen Digital Download as 2 of it's perks.
    Also they clearly state from what date these will have to be purchased separately, so I don't see where they "fuck" anyone.

    Also I think it doesn't matter if they are 2 games or just 2 game modes. For all they said it could still end up being one game client, but future backers who only purchase one package would only have that game mode unlocked.


    At the December livestream, we announced that Squadron 42 and Star Citizen will be split into two separate packages in the near future. To update on this: the split will occur on February 14th. Squadron 42 will be available as either a stand alone game or an optional addon for Star Citizen rather than be included by default. If you want to lock in both games for the lowest possible price, consider pledging before this deadline.

    Misato - TankDoc for Life
  • IkonisIkonis Member UncommonPosts: 245
    So how long before the white knights start claiming having to play through the single player before you could get into the PTU was never said? They are already trying to claim the games being sold separate was always the plan. How they could not see that as sleazy if that was even true where you would have been forced to buy both to play on the PTU boggles the mind. 
  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 830
    Wizardry said:
    He pitched Squadron 42 from DAY 1 and as a 6 million dollar game ,not a 100 million dollar game.He has already LONG passed that 6 million expenditure and has not delivered on anything,so to think this is anything but mismanagement and wasted spending is ridiculous.

    I am sure he is happy,he gets to play Mr.Hollywood producer and his wife gets her acting career paid for and supported with money he brings in. 

    Point being it doesn't matter WHEN he retracts his early sales pitch,this guy has not delivered on his promises and never will.Way over spending to build a 20 million dollar game ,you can hire ANY incompetent noob producer to pull that off.I am only assuming the finished product looks like a 20 mil game,he was pitching he could do it for 6 million,until he added a few hollywood stars and found some gimmicky ideas to up the budget.

    What happens if one day he comes and says : Guys we failed, we can not deliver the game.

    Will they have to return any money ?


    I really wonder ? Will they be held responsible financially in any way ? Or will they just laugh and reminisce
    how they managed to live high life on 100 million dollars for several years ?
    That Zano mini drone company was / is supposedly being investigated just for millions blown through. Not sure to what extent but saw it BBC news section on their site a lot. A kickstarter company blows $100+. Those headlines should be enough to get everybody's attention. 
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6838522/#Comment_6838522

    I know, I know, I'm shutting up about it for awhile. This is a link to something I said 1.5 weeks ago, though. Not like I'm throwing down any of the new dirt I got today...

  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    Adjuvant1 said:
    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6838522/#Comment_6838522

    I know, I know, I'm shutting up about it for awhile. This is a link to something I said 1.5 weeks ago, though. Not like I'm throwing down any of the new dirt I got today...

    @Adjuvant1 ;
    Sorry, but I am having difficulty trying to determine what exactly it is that you are saying with this post and link. Would you mind clarifying?
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Thourne said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6838522/#Comment_6838522

    I know, I know, I'm shutting up about it for awhile. This is a link to something I said 1.5 weeks ago, though. Not like I'm throwing down any of the new dirt I got today...

    @Adjuvant1 ;
    Sorry, but I am having difficulty trying to determine what exactly it is that you are saying with this post and link. Would you mind clarifying?
    The feature-incomplete pre-alpha everyone's playing right now, when they log in thinking they're playing "Star Citizen mmorpg", is a playtest for the now-disparate product Squadron 42. It will be launched in phases, with ( x ) number of missions (who knows? 15? 50? 70?), and subsequent installments will be paid DLC.

    There is no persistent "world" yet, so there is no "Star Citizen mmorpg" yet, at all. All the world outside of that "box of space" is .txt files and concept art.
  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Thourne said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6838522/#Comment_6838522

    I know, I know, I'm shutting up about it for awhile. This is a link to something I said 1.5 weeks ago, though. Not like I'm throwing down any of the new dirt I got today...

    @Adjuvant1 ;
    Sorry, but I am having difficulty trying to determine what exactly it is that you are saying with this post and link. Would you mind clarifying?
    The feature-incomplete pre-alpha everyone's playing right now, when they log in thinking they're playing "Star Citizen mmorpg", is a playtest for the now-disparate product Squadron 42. It will be launched in phases, with ( x ) number of missions (who knows? 15? 50? 70?), and subsequent installments will be paid DLC.

    There is no persistent "world" yet, so there is no "Star Citizen mmorpg" yet, at all. All the world outside of that "box of space" is .txt files and concept art.
    Thanks for clarification.


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