One more shady, scammy tactic to the list...

Kopogero

Ok, lemme first sum up some of the shady, scammy tactics some companies have used to attempt and milk $ from their potential player base.

Sell items to a game that doesn't exist (Star Citizen and its many ships)
Charge for pre-alpha access (something you would want as many players to test for you so you can fix your game faster)
Kickstarter (so much $ lost on promises or products that might appear one thing, but end up being completely different thing)
Release your game P2P then B2P then F2P, while try to maintain the P2P sub option and P2W cash shop later on.
Make profit out of RMT's and botters (yes, if you wanna know more how google it)
Ruin your once great reputation for quick $ from your loyal followers (Blizzard did best job with this imo)
Cash in on a great, super popular IP because you know many will overlook what actually the game offers as soon as they hear about the IP.

I can go on and on, but the reason why I made this thread is because there is one thing I never seen done before that belongs in this category, thanks to Albion. What they did deserves to be in this list, because it's so innovative, shady, and scammy tactic to get a massive free advertising, from a huge player base because you've advertised your product as a F2P on launch. There is no better way to gain a massive hype than promote your game as F2P only at the very end change it to B2P.

One thing I have yet to see though is all of those things done to a single game....and when it sinks like the Titanic within the next 3 months, rename your company and repeat the same. This is why it's important for us to track names like Smedley and where are they migrating to.

rojoArcueid

There are three things i can think of that could have impacted their decision to go from F2P to B2P:

1) Insecurity with their own game.
2) They realized B2P is far better and more balanced business model than F2P.
3) They got greedy and want that initial entry money before going F2P and go full on cash shop frenzy.

I'd like to believe its option #2 (even though im passing on this game for being point and click only), but it could be any of them.

AAAMEOW

It just show F2P is not a good model.

Start with buy to play and change it later.

You can just wait if you want.  It'll probably turn f2p in a few month.

Anyhow, take it easy.  I think those games have funding problems.  It's pretty hard for them to finish the product with their limited backers.

Vesavius

You forgot crap such as lock boxes. In all honesty, these,  along with the legalised sale of gold in game, led to me leaving the mainstream MMORPG market, which is why I don't even post or come here much anymore.

I used to argue so hard against F2P and all it's crap a few years ago, but I was in the vast minority back then. Funny how that's changed. Then I gave up and tried to get with just joining in the modern way of thinking. Then I opted out of commercial releases entirely.

I did try B&S again recently, but that was another lock box game so I uninstalled as soon as I saw.

Modern monetisation models have killed this for me. I will hide in the shadows until someone wises up. 

unfilteredJW

It must be exhausting to be so bitter.

Aelious

This isn't a shady tactic, at all. Even if the developers intentionally switched from one model to the other with the express goal of getting more attention (is there proof?) this happened before release, right? As long as those that may have bought EA packs get the title still without extra cost it is on the level. Since this title is a OWPvP game with full loot better they get money up front as to not introduce P2W aspects to get money... which actually is a shady practice.

Are we really to the point of manufacturing scorn against developers over forms of entertainment?

freegames

Albion mentioned how they changed their model about a month ago and B2P games for mmos have been scarce. For reasons listed by Albion such as spamming, botting, and the world being too small those are all valid reasons to to be F2P. I get the advertising reasons you mentioned, but in the end companies are about making money so they must have determined it was better for them financially to release it as a B2P vs a F2P.

Selling items that do not exist has to be one of the worst things to do.
Charging for pre-alpha- some gamers have been against this for years, but it does somewhat allow a company to develop a game with fewer financial headaches early on. Having alpha players pay to play and test a game has never been right in my eyes, but it is the way things are now.

goboygo

Huh?  How about simply F2P is a terrible business model to people that really care about games.

Kyleran

Someone is angry he won't get to play for free, would break his string.

bcbully

Kopogero said:

Ok, lemme first sum up some of the shady, scammy tactics some companies have used to attempt and milk $ from their potential player base.

Sell items to a game that doesn't exist (Star Citizen and its many ships)
Charge for pre-alpha access (something you would want as many players to test for you so you can fix your game faster)
Kickstarter (so much $ lost on promises or products that might appear one thing, but end up being completely different thing)
Release your game P2P then B2P then F2P, while try to maintain the P2P sub option and P2W cash shop later on.
Make profit out of RMT's and botters (yes, if you wanna know more how google it)
Ruin your once great reputation for quick $ from your loyal followers (Blizzard did best job with this imo)
Cash in on a great, super popular IP because you know many will overlook what actually the game offers as soon as they hear about the IP.

I can go on and on, but the reason why I made this thread is because there is one thing I never seen done before that belongs in this category, thanks to Albion. What they did deserves to be in this list, because it's so innovative, shady, and scammy tactic to get a massive free advertising, from a huge player base because you've advertised your product as a F2P on launch. There is no better way to gain a massive hype than promote your game as F2P only at the very end change it to B2P.

One thing I have yet to see though is all of those things done to a single game....and when it sinks like the Titanic within the next 3 months, rename your company and repeat the same. This is why it's important for us to track names like Smedley and where are they migrating to.

Smed is the least of your worries man. He makes games some pretty damn good, PS2.

You need to watch these fly by night guys. These indies with 0 experience and Unity promising the world who ask you for money with nothing more than some fan fiction and sketches. 

I agree with your overall point.

Vada_G

This just tells me that at some point the developer wised up.

It will most likely end up with P2advance lockboxes and go f2p once they've finished figuring out the mobile platform integration they were having trouble with.

khanstruct

So, pretty much any method that involves you paying for a game is a shady scam. Got it.

whisperwynd

These are all good, but attempts aren't what make the wheel keep turning in that direction.
It's the people who go for it and make profitable to so. If they get fooled and, hopefully, learn their lesson. Then it'll dwindle to where it will no longer be profitable to attempt.
If they don't and the attempts keep rolling on and make money, then why blame what obviously works?

Live and learn and all that, right?  

moshra

This coming from the same guy who constantly brags about how he hasn't paid for a game in so many years.  You are the last person anyone here should listen to when it comes to cash grabs and scams.

gaeshin

B2P is actually their best bet.  Now here's the sarcasm part:

After finishing milking money from the B2P crowd, the game will turn to f2p with cash shop, and after the f2p hype subsided away they will announce a new card game for it, with mobile access, which will reinvigorate the core game for a while, and after finished milking the IP they will start with a brand new IP with the similar stuff, then rinse and repeat.

Dakeru

I disagree on this being a scam simply because you will pay and get the game.
A scam would rather be paying for a product that doesn't exist or charging extra with that day 1 dlc nonsense.

This is rather a case of false advertising.

shalissar

Vesavius said:

You forgot crap such as lock boxes. In all honesty, these,  along with the legalised sale of gold in game, led to me leaving the mainstream MMORPG market, which is why I don't even post or come here much anymore.

I used to argue so hard against F2P and all it's crap a few years ago, but I was in the vast minority back then. Funny how that's changed. Then I gave up and tried to get with just joining in the modern way of thinking. Then I opted out of commercial releases entirely.

I did try B&S again recently, but that was another lock box game so I uninstalled as soon as I saw.

Modern monetisation models have killed this for me. I will hide in the shadows until someone wises up. 

Uhh what, there aren't any lockboxes in BnS, well there are, but you open them with keys you get from in the game. There are no lockboxes in that you can only open with cash shop items.

You don't have to like it but don't spread misinformation.

rounner

bcbully said:

Kopogero said:

...

Smed is the least of your worries man. He makes games some pretty damn good, PS2.

You need to watch these fly by night guys. These indies with 0 experience and Unity promising the world who ask you for money with nothing more than some fan fiction and sketches. 

I agree with your overall point.

This.

Its going to get worse as tools and engines become more accessible. The general public doesn't appreciate 99% of the work is the last 1% and a hello world demo means nothing.

Vermillion_Raventhal

If your still scammed at this point it's on you.  I invest nearly nothing in F2P. Many of those games aren't worth paying for in my opinion.  I any game with pay to directly compete I am not doing. Especially if it's on going in the hundreds/thousands.  Not paying for gambling boxes or mounts.  

I am not supporting Kickstarter.  Maybe if they had a gamers stock market and we could buy shares or something.  It's too easy for someone to scam.  Too easy for someone to fail.  To easy for your money to be mismanaged.  

khanstruct

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

If your still scammed at this point it's on you.  I invest nearly nothing in F2P. Many of those games aren't worth paying for in my opinion.  I any game with pay to directly compete I am not doing. Especially if it's on going in the hundreds/thousands.  Not paying for gambling boxes or mounts.  

I am not supporting Kickstarter.  Maybe if they had a gamers stock market and we could buy shares or something.  It's too easy for someone to scam.  Too easy for someone to fail.  To easy for your money to be mismanaged.  

https://www.fig.co/about

sketocafe

Being B2P and charging for your content patches is pretty terrible. Definitely worse than charging EU players subs for an EU server located in Texas, which is bad enough.

goboygo

khanstruct said:

So, pretty much any method that involves you paying for a game is a shady scam. Got it.

lolz

LacedOpium

A fool and his money are easily parted.

Pepeq

He's upset because he lost a game that he could play for free... remember, he hasn't paid to play an MMO since... well... the last time he did.

carotid

DMKano said:

So a business that is seeking to maximize profits (every business in existence) is now a "shady tactic".


/facepalm


Every business has the right to change pricing models as they please - the consumer either buys or doesnt. 

There are crap load of ways to maximize profits. Shady tactics is one of the many ways. Maybe you should /facepalm a little harder. Knock some sense into you.

goboygo

carotid said:

DMKano said:

So a business that is seeking to maximize profits (every business in existence) is now a "shady tactic".


/facepalm


Every business has the right to change pricing models as they please - the consumer either buys or doesnt. 

There are crap load of ways to maximize profits. Shady tactics is one of the many ways. Maybe you should /facepalm a little harder. Knock some sense into you.

Just because a businesses profit model doesn't fit into your personal world of economics doesn't make it shady.  You can not like it, or not want to participate in it but that's entirely different from what your implying here.