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Minorities in Gaming - Theorizing Representation As Revolutionary - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

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  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    DMKano said:
    klash2def said:
    DMKano said:
    klash2def said:
    DMKano said:
    I am gonna go with "a topic not worthy of discussion".

    Very pretentious. Hey If you do not want to add to the conversation then you do not have to post here. Its really that easy. Also It's definitely a topic worthy of discussion... moving on. 


    Reading comprehension fail - read the original article

    "On the other, there are camps who posit that there is no issue of representation in video games, or that it’s not a worthy topic of discussion."

    The article gave this as a clear option - which is what i chose.

    Thanks for playing. 
     I'm sorry, I  read that as "I am going to go with a topic not worthy of discussion"  

    So I responded with "If you do not want to add to the conversation then you do not have to post here."  

    Explain why its not worthy of discussion or stop posting pretentious BS just to get a reaction. 
    /facepalm


    Honestly, i laughed, ah, the irony inherent in that statement.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    edited January 2016
    Burntvet said:
    And lol at "Asians" being under-represented in video games.

    I think there might, just might, be a game or two that have come out of Asia in the last couple years (or hundreds). I bet they had Asian people program them too, had Asian heroes and were owned by Asian companies.

    But nevermind, you know, actual facts.

    Zealots hate facts.

    Really name the games that featured Asian Protags LEADs not side characters. Games that you have played. Not all the obscure shit that may come out in asia everyday. Games that you actually played and have english translations meaning games that are here in western culture. I have to break shit down for you because you like to act as if you can't read when I type plainly. 

    My whole argument has been lead protags not being written into games as minorities..

    Sleeping Dogs
    Mirror's Edge
    Shenmue (Dreamcast)
    Resident Evil 2 


    Name me more than these.. then let's compare the games that have white male protags. See who has the highest number.  

    All this bullshit being spewed at me but not one of you has proved me wrong. Show me where in history of this hobby where the white male protag games did not greatly outnumber all others? Please help me if I'm wrong. 

    You basically keep saying "but my friend is asian, black or latino" 

    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,091
    klash2def said:

    Quizzical said:
    First of all, this thread is a pretty clear violation of forum rules:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm

    The relevant rule:

    "MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics are forbidden."

    Picking apart some of the glaring errors in the original article would constitute another violation, so I'll stay away from it for now, pending an official confirmation that arguing about politics is now okay here.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But more generally, why must you import some of the undesirable things from real life and try to impose them on a game?  Why can't games be a place to get away from the things we fight about in real life?  Why can't they have their own civilizations, their own cultures, their own way of life, unrelated to what we see in real life?

    Many game developers actually try to do exactly that.  Most try to stay far away from political controversies, and wisely so.  Importing political controversies rarely adds anything good to a game, but only gratuitously offends a considerable chunk of your potential players.  Which side of a hot-button political issue a game pushes can affect which chunk of players you offend, but money from those you disagree with is just as valuable as money from those you agree with.
    Again. This is about racial diversity in video games. Period. That's the only thing I have been discussing here. If it makes it you uncomfortable, I'm not sorry, for that is the reality of not just myself but millions of other people who play video games. 
    Well then, let's have a look at the article.

    "It’s common knowledge, for example, that women are paid around seventy cents to the dollar compared to men,"

    "Let’s say that there’s a certain political or ethnic group that are stereotyped in news and popular media to the point of absurdity, like the Soviets during the Cold War.  Not only do the portrayal of Soviet political leaders in news media support and inform similar depictions in films (see Rocky IVThe Hunt for Red October, and every other movie ever), but they also reinforce a particular narrative about the Cold War and underlying relations between the United States and the West in general with the former Soviet Union."

    "Lisa Nakamura posits that queer females of color have the “highest difficulty setting”"

    That's got nothing to do with either racial diversity or video games.  In fact, it's precisely the sort of politically incendiary statements that the rule against discussing politics on this forum is supposed to ban.

    There is a time and a place to argue about such things.  The problem is that if you allow people to argue about politics on the Internet, it tends to either turn into constant flame wars or nearly everyone who isn't pretty close to a particular viewpoint leaving that site.  That's fine for a site that is explicitly political, but highly undesirable if the site is supposed to be about MMORPGs and hopes to have people of wildly different political views all appreciate the site.  That's why this site has a ban on discussion politics and religion, and why many other web sites do likewise.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    Phry said:
    DMKano said:
    klash2def said:
    DMKano said:
    klash2def said:
    DMKano said:
    I am gonna go with "a topic not worthy of discussion".

    Very pretentious. Hey If you do not want to add to the conversation then you do not have to post here. Its really that easy. Also It's definitely a topic worthy of discussion... moving on. 


    Reading comprehension fail - read the original article

    "On the other, there are camps who posit that there is no issue of representation in video games, or that it’s not a worthy topic of discussion."

    The article gave this as a clear option - which is what i chose.

    Thanks for playing. 
     I'm sorry, I  read that as "I am going to go with a topic not worthy of discussion"  

    So I responded with "If you do not want to add to the conversation then you do not have to post here."  

    Explain why its not worthy of discussion or stop posting pretentious BS just to get a reaction. 
    /facepalm


    Honestly, i laughed, ah, the irony inherent in that statement.
    Laugh and facepalm all you want, you still have yet to explain why it's not a topic worthy of discussion or WHY you feel as if there is no issue of representation of video games. Im clearly saying there is an issue.
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    edited January 2016
    klash2def said:
    Burntvet said:
    And lol at "Asians" being under-represented in video games.

    I think there might, just might, be a game or two that have come out of Asia in the last couple years (or hundreds). I bet they had Asian people program them too, had Asian heroes and were owned by Asian companies.

    But nevermind, you know, actual facts.

    Zealots hate facts.

    Really name the games that featured Asian Protags LEADs not side characters. Games that you have played. Not all the obscure shit that may come out in asia everyday. Games that you actually played and have english translations meaning games that are here in western culture. I have to break shit down for you because you like to act as if you can't read when I type plainly. 

    My whole argument has been lead protags not being written into games as minorities..

    Sleeping Dogs
    Mirror's Edge
    Shenmue (Dreamcast)
    Resident Evil 2 


    Name me more than these.. then let's compare the games that have white male protags. See who has the highest number.  

    All this bullshit being spewed at me but not one of you has proved me wrong. Show me where in history of this hobby where the white male protag games did not greatly outnumber all others? Please help me if I'm wrong. 

    You basically keep saying "but my friend is asian, black or latino" 


    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • rochristrochrist Member UncommonPosts: 133

    Kiyoris said:

    this article contains



    sexual orientation

    heterosexuality
    whiteness

    really btw, "whiteness"?
    FOX

    race

    religion

    Soviets

    Cold War

    stereotypes

    females of color



    lmao, according to the MMORPG.COM rules, you should have been banned by now OP, multiple times



    You get that it was an article and not a forum post, right? I'm not sure why you think forum rules do or ought to apply to the site's opinion columns, but a number of you seem to be under that impression.

    Their site, they can publish whatever they like.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,091

    klash2def said:
    To all of you who started calling me racist as soon as I mentioned these points, please tell which of these are racist of me to bring up? 

    1. I am black/african descent and most video games features Caucasian males as the lead protag
    2. Minorities are not represented well in video games (Latinos, Blacks, Asians) 
    3. Women are not a racial minority because that's another word for the female gender, but they are underrepresented. When they are, it's mostly oversexualized for the most part. 
    4. All of these things are problems for the gaming community that need to be addressed.

    All these are issues I see in video games. I'm not talking about society politics etc.. this is in video games!  I'm not the only one pointing this out. The society shit bleeds over and that's not my fault, I didn't make this stuff up it's what's really happening. 
    This is a site about MMORPGs, as one might have guessed from the name of the site.  MMORPGs tend not to have a main protagonist.  Who, after all, is the main protagonist in WoW?  How about Guild Wars 2?  Final Fantasy XIV?  EVE?

    In many MMORPGs, to the extent that there is a main protagonist, every player is the main protagonist of his own story (which ends up suspiciously similar to everyone else's story).  And the player is of whatever race he feels like being.  In many games, that usually means not even human, let alone European, African, or Asian in a universe where those continents don't even exist.  Some MMORPGs don't even offer a human option.

    But let's ignore that for the sake of argument.  For a game not set on Earth, why should there be a particular ratio of various races?  Why should particular real-life races exist at all?  Why shouldn't there be races that have no clear real-life analogue?  We commonly use skin color as a proxy for race, but why should lighter or darker skinned humans in Azeroth or Tyria or Nexus or Faerun have anything to do with real-life races?  And why should the distribution of skin colors in such worlds have anything at all to do with what it is on Earth?

    It shouldn't.  It doesn't.  And the article seeks to inject real-life political disputes into games that explicitly tried to avoid them.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Just because it makes you uncomfortable does not make it less true or valid. Just because you dont have a issue with it, doesnt mean other people also dont have a issue with it. We live in a different era where people now have a way to voice their concerns with big organizations in a public way and do that very quickly. 

    Racial equality has always been a issue in video games. Whether you see it or not may depend on several factors including where you live, life experience and what race you happen to be. I dont appreciate being called a racist to "white people" just because I pointed out that majority of games feature a Male Caucasian as the hero. If most games featured a black or latino male as the hero I would have said the same thing. Its boring to play the exact same type of archetype every time. 

    All the people saying "Go make your own game then." Okay then make your own game too when you start QQ about PVP being broken or Story Quests glitching out.. make your own game. Exactly.. see how much sense that statement makes? None.

    If there is something you dont like about a game you should be able to voice it, it just so happens that this racial thing is being talked about more and more which is great thing, because we need to face and make adjustments to these issues as a race of people being human beings. 


    To all of you who started calling me racist as soon as I mentioned these points, please tell which of these are racist of me to bring up? 

    1. I am black/african descent and most video games features Caucasian males as the lead protag
    2. Minorities are not represented well in video games (Latinos, Blacks, Asians) 
    3. Women are not a racial minority because that's another word for the female gender, but they are underrepresented. When they are, it's mostly oversexualized for the most part. 
    4. All of these things are problems for the gaming community that need to be addressed.

    All these are issues I see in video games. I'm not talking about society politics etc.. this is in video games!  I'm not the only one pointing this out. The society shit bleeds over and that's not my fault, I didn't make this stuff up it's what's really happening. 

    The point I am trying to make is if we are going to move forward and progress as a community we need to address, not hide from the issues that are blatantly there. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean it's not real and not the experience of others.

    All of you saying, "Deal with it, it's just how it is" are the true racist because not speaking out or advocating that bullshit is the same as allowing devs to keep making lazy choices with video games and sell you what should be regular in game content as DLC. It needs to be nipped because its a issue for a lot of people. 


    I am not sure who you think is feeling uncomfortable exactly, the assumption currently, has to be that its you who feels uncomfortable because its such an issue to you.
    Racial Equality is a thing, Racial Diversity, is something completely different, and while its possible to play a male caucasian in most games, its not the only option, i think if you actually played those games, you would know this, perhaps this is where a lot of your misconceptions stem from.

    1. which games do you think in particular feature white males as being the lead protagonist, where choice in race/colour is not also an option ?
    2. I strongly disagree that they are not represented well, they are represented as well as the various white racial types are, after all, how many games characterise white racial types that well, at least well enough to differentiate between germanic, slavik, nordic, sub nordic or even british or celtic features or are you saying that  all the white guys look the same, either way, games depict different racial types as well as they are able, to say that they don't represent them well enough, is disingenous.
    3. Shouldn't be an issue, its just a 'variation' of the racial selection.
    4. Fallacious reasoning, if enough people thought there was a problem then the developers of games would have addressed it already, they create games that people want to buy after all, otherwise, games don't sell.

    Do you even play these games you think are a problem? and yes, it does seem very much like you are making this stuff up as you go along, the point your trying to make, is confused, you complain about things, but you use buzz words instead of explaining exactly what it is you are complaining about, and if there was an issue, you can be very sure people here would not be hiding from it, their among the most vocal you will find anywhere.
    Racism is something perhaps i think you struggle with, because you are so focused on what you perceive to be a 'white male' caucasian thing, that you overlook that its exactly that kind of thinking that is a form of racism, its that kind of thinking that is holding you back, and it will keep holding you back, until you accept that the whole colour thing, doesn't matter, its not important, we're all in this together, things like race and religion, are used to seperate people, not integrate them.

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    Quizzical said:

    klash2def said:
    To all of you who started calling me racist as soon as I mentioned these points, please tell which of these are racist of me to bring up? 

    1. I am black/african descent and most video games features Caucasian males as the lead protag
    2. Minorities are not represented well in video games (Latinos, Blacks, Asians) 
    3. Women are not a racial minority because that's another word for the female gender, but they are underrepresented. When they are, it's mostly oversexualized for the most part. 
    4. All of these things are problems for the gaming community that need to be addressed.

    All these are issues I see in video games. I'm not talking about society politics etc.. this is in video games!  I'm not the only one pointing this out. The society shit bleeds over and that's not my fault, I didn't make this stuff up it's what's really happening. 
    This is a site about MMORPGs, as one might have guessed from the name of the site.  MMORPGs tend not to have a main protagonist.  Who, after all, is the main protagonist in WoW?  How about Guild Wars 2?  Final Fantasy XIV?  EVE?

    In many MMORPGs, to the extent that there is a main protagonist, every player is the main protagonist of his own story (which ends up suspiciously similar to everyone else's story).  And the player is of whatever race he feels like being.  In many games, that usually means not even human, let alone European, African, or Asian in a universe where those continents don't even exist.  Some MMORPGs don't even offer a human option.

    But let's ignore that for the sake of argument.  For a game not set on Earth, why should there be a particular ratio of various races?  Why should particular real-life races exist at all?  Why shouldn't there be races that have no clear real-life analogue?  We commonly use skin color as a proxy for race, but why should lighter or darker skinned humans in Azeroth or Tyria or Nexus or Faerun have anything to do with real-life races?  And why should the distribution of skin colors in such worlds have anything at all to do with what it is on Earth?

    It shouldn't.  It doesn't.  And the article seeks to inject real-life political disputes into games that explicitly tried to avoid them.
    Simple:  If a game says pick a race and it says "HUMAN" but that "HUMAN" can't be made to resemble the human playing the game IE: Turning a European looking "HUMAN" into a African looking "HUMAN" then for me that's a issue.

    It's not about skin pigment as I said before. You can have light skin and look black or dark skin and look asian or european. 

    It always has been for me personally which is why I prefer to make elves or orcs or something NOT human in MMOs because the option they give me to be what I am "black HUMAN"  just looks like a european human with a bad tan.  This is just mmos you are talking about, my point was video games in general lean towards having FAR less minorities in lead protag roles and that's the truth. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182
    klash2def said:
     I never once said The Definition of Racial Diversity is "When The main hero of the game is written in as a minority" 


    klash2def said:

    Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    LOL.  Wow, look at the quote above and look at the quote below.

    This is pretty funny.  He didn't say it, but he did. 

    Is this the part where we slowly /golfclap and walk away?

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182

    Phry said:

    Racism is something perhaps i think you struggle with, because you are so focused on what you perceive to be a 'white male' caucasian thing, that you overlook that its exactly that kind of thinking that is a form of racism, its that kind of thinking that is holding you back, and it will keep holding you back, until you accept that the whole colour thing, doesn't matter, its not important, we're all in this together, things like race and religion, are used to seperate people, not integrate them.

    Well said... of course it will be ignored because it would invalidate the victim mentality... but well said.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,203
    edited January 2016
    I'm trippen on the fact that because klash said there should be more minority protagonist and antagonist in rpgs , there are now three or four posters calling him a racist.

    Wtf? Really guys? This community can do better than that. 
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    Any mode of creativity that wants to be called mature needs to grapple with the sociopolitical issues of its time and place, especially if it wants to hold onto future generations. If it doesn't, then said medium just remains stuck in its own adolescence. This isn't something to hide from. 

    When it comes to the examining the realities of how race can be lived in the world, movies, books and TV all do it. I'm not saying video games won't or can't, but damn if it's not a long time coming. Getting racially diverse lead protag characters who don't make me grit my teeth would be a great sign that videogames are growing up.
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,398
    Quizzical said:
    This is a site about MMORPGs, as one might have guessed from the name of the site.  
    Yes it is, but THIS is a article about something that goes beyond MMORPGs into the land of narrativity, of which MMORPGs are but a small part.

    It's also a good counterpoint to the hundreds of threads and posts whining about "they censored my boobies and lolis!" started often by the very same people who don't want this article and thread to exist.

    Why should we discuss Asian developers changing character looks and quests when localizing for Western audiences and not discuss the larger issue that those changes are a small part of: shaping the narrative in progressive ways not just to make more bucks but because it's the right thing to do?

    I play ESO, one of the better games in that respect where no one is beating you over the head with racial or sexual diversity. They just happen to allow for the creation of realistic looking black humans and have quests you might or might not run into featuring gays and lesbians... the way it can easily and should be done.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,091
    klash2def said:
    Quizzical said:

    klash2def said:
    To all of you who started calling me racist as soon as I mentioned these points, please tell which of these are racist of me to bring up? 

    1. I am black/african descent and most video games features Caucasian males as the lead protag
    2. Minorities are not represented well in video games (Latinos, Blacks, Asians) 
    3. Women are not a racial minority because that's another word for the female gender, but they are underrepresented. When they are, it's mostly oversexualized for the most part. 
    4. All of these things are problems for the gaming community that need to be addressed.

    All these are issues I see in video games. I'm not talking about society politics etc.. this is in video games!  I'm not the only one pointing this out. The society shit bleeds over and that's not my fault, I didn't make this stuff up it's what's really happening. 
    This is a site about MMORPGs, as one might have guessed from the name of the site.  MMORPGs tend not to have a main protagonist.  Who, after all, is the main protagonist in WoW?  How about Guild Wars 2?  Final Fantasy XIV?  EVE?

    In many MMORPGs, to the extent that there is a main protagonist, every player is the main protagonist of his own story (which ends up suspiciously similar to everyone else's story).  And the player is of whatever race he feels like being.  In many games, that usually means not even human, let alone European, African, or Asian in a universe where those continents don't even exist.  Some MMORPGs don't even offer a human option.

    But let's ignore that for the sake of argument.  For a game not set on Earth, why should there be a particular ratio of various races?  Why should particular real-life races exist at all?  Why shouldn't there be races that have no clear real-life analogue?  We commonly use skin color as a proxy for race, but why should lighter or darker skinned humans in Azeroth or Tyria or Nexus or Faerun have anything to do with real-life races?  And why should the distribution of skin colors in such worlds have anything at all to do with what it is on Earth?

    It shouldn't.  It doesn't.  And the article seeks to inject real-life political disputes into games that explicitly tried to avoid them.
    Simple:  If a game says pick a race and it says "HUMAN" but that "HUMAN" can't be made to resemble the human playing the game IE: Turning a European looking "HUMAN" into a African looking "HUMAN" then for me that's a issue.

    It's not about skin pigment as I said before. You can have light skin and look black or dark skin and look asian or european. 

    It always has been for me personally which is why I prefer to make elves or orcs or something NOT human in MMOs because the option they give me to be what I am "black HUMAN"  just looks like a european human with a bad tan.  This is just mmos you are talking about, my point was video games in general lean towards having FAR less minorities in lead protag roles and that's the truth. 
    It's not like very many games will let you make a hero that looks like the real-life me, either.  For starters, usually the heroes are a lot more muscular than me, as you'd kind of need to be if you hope to engage in combat without ending up dead pretty fast.  If so inclined, in just about any game, I could come up with a long list of ways that the hero can't be made to look like real-life me, too.  The technical limitations of computer graphics have nothing to do with race, no matter how much you want to inject it into everything.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182
    klash2def said:
    A Getting racially diverse lead protag characters who don't make me grit my teeth would be a great sign that videogames are growing up.
    Who wants games to grow up?  They are GAMES.   We don't need games to "grapple with the sociopolitical issues".  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    klash2def said:
     I never once said The Definition of Racial Diversity is "When The main hero of the game is written in as a minority" 


    klash2def said:

    Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    LOL.  Wow, look at the quote above and look at the quote below.

    This is pretty funny.  He didn't say it, but he did. 

    Is this the part where we slowly /golfclap and walk away?

     
    Stop half quoting me.  You look stupid. I'm just gonna repost exactly what I said again in the full context. 

    AGAIN.

    klash2def said:
    Burntvet said:


    Whining and name calling is not a solution.
    But it's EASY to whine and call people names instead of doing something useful. It's always someone else's fault.  Pointing out what OTHER people should do for you is apparently now a highly regarded skill in some circles (like academia). We used to value people that would see an opportunity and created a product or idea to fill that.  Today people value folks that believe they see an opportunity and complain that others should fix it.


    I mean, by his own words he thinks DIVERSITY is:

    Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    When pointed out that what he said is the OPPOSITE of diversity, he ignored it and went on to complain once again about what other people should do.
    Stop lying. I never called anyone names, i'm about to now though, liar. 

    Stop Paraphrasing shit I said and removing the context that I said it in. You think you are clever by taking my words and trying to make it something else. You know exactly how it was meant. I never once said The Definition of Racial Diversity is "When The main hero of the game is written in as a minority"

    READ THE FULL THING, Stop trying to take certain parts to make it match your agenda. You understand exactly what I said. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 




    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755

    bcbully said:
    I'm trippen on the fact that because klash said there should be more minority protagonist and antagonist in rpgs , there are now three or four posters calling him a racist.

    Wtf? Really guys? This community can do better than that. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182
    Quizzical said:

    It's not like very many games will let you make a hero that looks like the real-life me, either.  For starters, usually the heroes are a lot more muscular than me, as you'd kind of need to be if you hope to engage in combat without ending up dead pretty fast.  If so inclined, in just about any game, I could come up with a long list of ways that the hero can't be made to look like real-life me, too.  The technical limitations of computer graphics have nothing to do with race, no matter how much you want to inject it into everything.
    You mean... you don't culturally identify with a protagonist that runs around with a sword hacking people to death while subjugating the goblin race?  But aren't you both white?  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,398
    edited January 2016
    bcbully said:
    I'm trippen on the fact that because klash said there should be more minority protagonist and antagonist in rpgs , there are now three or four posters calling him a racist.

    Wtf? Really guys? This community can do better than that. 
    Especially since Som addressed this very thing in his article when he said "...when a member from a minority group is required to speak out against their marginalization, and is subsequently told that they’re being overly sensitive or out of line." Now we have that very thing playing itself out in this thread.

    And LOL at all the BS that amounts to "us whites is a minority too, ya know?" Like we haven't heard that shit before... get new new material guys.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    I'm gonna post all my thoughts in long form and then I'm done with this forever. 

    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
     I never once said The Definition of Racial Diversity is "When The main hero of the game is written in as a minority" 


    klash2def said:

    Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    edited January 2016

    okay i'm convinced now that you are half quoting me to troll @Slapshot1188 that's okay have fun with that.  LIKE I SAID 

    klash2def said:

    klash2def said:
    Stop Paraphrasing shit I said and removing the context that I said it in. You think you are clever by taking my words and trying to make it something else. You know exactly how it was meant. I never once said The Definition of Racial Diversity is "When The main hero of the game is written in as a minority"

    READ THE FULL THING, Stop trying to take certain parts to make it match your agenda. You understand exactly what I said. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 





    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    bcbully said:
    I'm trippen on the fact that because klash said there should be more minority protagonist and antagonist in rpgs , there are now three or four posters calling him a racist.

    Wtf? Really guys? This community can do better than that. 
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182
    klash2def said:
    I'm gonna post all my thoughts in long form and then I'm done with this forever. 

    Otherwise known as " NAH NAH NAH NAH. I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE"


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

This discussion has been closed.