Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Minorities in Gaming - Theorizing Representation As Revolutionary - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

12357

Comments

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    edited January 2016
    klash2def said:
    The latest call of duty game.. play the campaign mode.. when you get ready to make your character you can choose from GET THIS.. 20 DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF CAUCASIAN MALES/FEMALES. Not one single minority choice and in the multiplayer mode, where the class is your character for instance if you want to play with the sneaky assassin class, you will always play as the chick with the hood and bow.

    Well in this same mode there is ONE black dude that is the tank/gunner class and ONE asian woman which is a hunter type of class.. this is MULTIPLAYER  mode which felt like it was tacked on last second.  There are 9 classes and two are represented by minorities. 

    The meat of the game which is the campaign feats 20 diff WHITE MALES/Females to choose from at character creation.. no other race. Its insane.  This is the issue. I didn't make these games, how am I the racist one ? Im pointing out what is clearly there. 

    Were you able to create liberals, conservatives, liberterian? Pierced character? Emo ones? Goth ones? Naruto fans ones? Tatoo artist one? Make-up artist one? Singer one? Upper class? French? Italians? Swedish? Turks? Germans? Contact lenses one? Glasses one?  Babies? 70 year old ones? Obese? Anorexic? Cancer-inflicted?

    Why is it so important to represent a minority in regards to "race" when there are so many other traits in which minorities and majorities are not being represented?
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,869
    klash2def said:

     Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 
    I think you have a FUNDAMENTAL misunderstanding of what diversity means.  By definition, if something is "written in as a minority" that is the OPPOSITE of diversity.

    As others have said, and you have repeatedly ignored, there are plenty of games that allow you a wonderfully wide array of character customization.  THAT is diversity.  You don't want diversity.  You want FORCED playing as a "minority" character (based on whatever definition you have in your mind).

    Hopefully by now you understand the difference between THAT and DIVERSITY.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    Gotta love all the people trying to deflect because they are uncomfortable talking about racial equality and diversity. That's not my fault, maybe you should go out and experience the world more. You being uncomfortable doesnt make my point any less valid. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    klash2def said:
    Gotta love all the people trying to deflect because they are uncomfortable talking about racial equality and diversity. That's not my fault, maybe you should go out and experience the world more. You being uncomfortable doesnt make my point any less valid. 
    Equality in regards to how they are seen by the law: yes I want that. Forced diversity: no, I do not want that. 
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    edited January 2016
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:

     I find it funny that you keep trying to flip this as me being racist towards carcausion people. Im not racist dude I wont say it again. I am pointing out what anybody with eyes can see. You dont have to like it. Its crazy how a person can point out something that is right there for all to see and they turn on the person as if the person is the fucked up one for even mentioning it.. smh. Anyway. 

    Like I said.. these are not opinions but actual facts. 95% of video games that feature a lead character that is human, features a Male Caucasian protag. That is factual.  

    When I say minorities I'm including Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. Women are something different than Minorities because that is a gender.. they are represented in my opinion in most games a bit more than minorities but the issue with them is HOW they are represented with the oversexulization and all but thats a whole other subject. And since you brought it up, YES the only women you see in games are Caucasian or overly sexed up asians. Its all a issue that gamers dont want to think about or face. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 
    Except its only by skin colour that games can objectively represent those so called minorities, and if by allowing for different racial types in a game isn't good enough, unless the main hero doesn't have a 'white' option, then how can that be a true representation of racial diversity?
    You aren't talking about diversity at all, you are objectively talking about taking away options for the players to choose from, in this case, white.
    The biggest hurdle you have to face, is that racial diversity, includes white.
    And no, racial diversity is not the case when the main hero is restricted to a single racial type, thats the polar opposite of racial diversity.
    So again, why is it that you wish to take away the option from players, to choose whatever colour they want, because when you take away one colour, its just the first step to rationalising away a reason to move onto the next, after all, Chinese are not exactly a minority, so, lets take away that option too.
    Racial diversity is inclusive.
    MAN WTF are you talking about? You keep trying to flip this and make it ME being racist against Carcausion people.. what is this strange agenda you have dude, I'm pointing out what is actually there.. I never once said take away the option to be carcausion.. Im saying give all the other races the same just due. WTF are you accusing me of being racist for? How is that racism?  Do you even know what racism is? 

    I'm pointing out what is clearly there. You cannot tell me Im not right. 95% of games feature a white male as the protag and again thats not something I made up, its not racist to point it out, and it IS a problem considering the VERY diverse nature of the people who actually play video games you would think devs would start to be more diverse when writing characters. 

    EDIT: everything you have posted here is full of ignorance and deflection. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    It's not about being uncomfortable talking about racial equality and such. It's about how it can devolve into personal attacks and insults over a topic some may find sensitive.
    The facts are irrelevant here as it is clearly subject to moderation if it is deemed so by this site. We all agreed to the ToS.
    There isn't much of a discussion going on here anyway. Seems more like a rally with protesters about something trivial.
    Trivial, yes. We're talking about games, not social reform. This isn't the place for this kind of talk anyway.

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    klash2def said:
    Kiyoris said:
    klash2def said:
    WHITE MALE

    Hopefully this is the last topic like this on this site.

    Closet racism disguised as diversity against white men isn't acceptable.
    Please continue to try to flip what I'm saying into me being a racist. Its amusing. I'm not defending that anymore, I know what I am,  
    So do we.
    Dude you are just uncomfortable because you aren't mature enough to discuss these things in a way that gets across a point.. you instead deflect and call me racist because I pointed out something that is actually there. I'm not afraid to discuss it because its my experience. You grew up with video games that have heroes who look like you, I did not and that's where our experiences differ.

    Nothing about what what I said is racism. I pointed out what is clearly there once again anybody can see it. Go back and read what I said,

    I answered everything you tried to claim as diversity (Skin color types) SMFH you have no clue so I'm just going to leave you there in your ignorance. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    I can't help but notice the timing of this article with the recent Oscars debate going on... 

    Reminds me of Morgan Freeman when asked about Black History Month... he quoted it as being ridiculous.  It's American History!

    I agree.  Until people stop seeing themselves as another class of citizen, they will continue to be that other class of citizen.

    We're all humans... male or female... black or white... asian or hispanic... islamic or catholic... and yet we spend the preponderance of our time trying to see ourselves as everything but human.

    Until the martians arrive, we're all the same... sad thing is, we're more accepting of martians than our own species.  We don't see martians as black or white, male or female... they're just martians.  But humans, we're nothing but 1000 different species all claiming to own the planet.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,226
    First of all, this thread is a pretty clear violation of forum rules:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm

    The relevant rule:

    "MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics are forbidden."

    Picking apart some of the glaring errors in the original article would constitute another violation, so I'll stay away from it for now, pending an official confirmation that arguing about politics is now okay here.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But more generally, why must you import some of the undesirable things from real life and try to impose them on a game?  Why can't games be a place to get away from the things we fight about in real life?  Why can't they have their own civilizations, their own cultures, their own way of life, unrelated to what we see in real life?

    Many game developers actually try to do exactly that.  Most try to stay far away from political controversies, and wisely so.  Importing political controversies rarely adds anything good to a game, but only gratuitously offends a considerable chunk of your potential players.  Which side of a hot-button political issue a game pushes can affect which chunk of players you offend, but money from those you disagree with is just as valuable as money from those you agree with.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:

     I find it funny that you keep trying to flip this as me being racist towards carcausion people. Im not racist dude I wont say it again. I am pointing out what anybody with eyes can see. You dont have to like it. Its crazy how a person can point out something that is right there for all to see and they turn on the person as if the person is the fucked up one for even mentioning it.. smh. Anyway. 

    Like I said.. these are not opinions but actual facts. 95% of video games that feature a lead character that is human, features a Male Caucasian protag. That is factual.  

    When I say minorities I'm including Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. Women are something different than Minorities because that is a gender.. they are represented in my opinion in most games a bit more than minorities but the issue with them is HOW they are represented with the oversexulization and all but thats a whole other subject. And since you brought it up, YES the only women you see in games are Caucasian or overly sexed up asians. Its all a issue that gamers dont want to think about or face. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 
    Except its only by skin colour that games can objectively represent those so called minorities, and if by allowing for different racial types in a game isn't good enough, unless the main hero doesn't have a 'white' option, then how can that be a true representation of racial diversity?
    You aren't talking about diversity at all, you are objectively talking about taking away options for the players to choose from, in this case, white.
    The biggest hurdle you have to face, is that racial diversity, includes white.
    And no, racial diversity is not the case when the main hero is restricted to a single racial type, thats the polar opposite of racial diversity.
    So again, why is it that you wish to take away the option from players, to choose whatever colour they want, because when you take away one colour, its just the first step to rationalising away a reason to move onto the next, after all, Chinese are not exactly a minority, so, lets take away that option too.
    Racial diversity is inclusive.
    MAN WTF are you talking about? You keep trying to flip this and make it ME being racist against Carcausion people.. what is this strange agenda you have dude, I'm pointing out what is actually there.. I never once said take away the option to be carcausion.. Im saying give all the other races the same just due. WTF are you accusing me of being racist for? How is that racism?  Do you even know what racism is? 

    I'm pointing out what is clearly there. You cannot tell me Im not right. 95% of games feature a white male as the protag and again thats not something I made up, its not racist to point it out, and it IS a problem considering the VERY diverse nature of the people who actually play video games you would think devs would start to be more diverse when writing characters. 

    EDIT: everything you have posted here is full of ignorance and deflection. 
    You don't get it.
    In those games you are so clearly against, being White, whether male or female, is just one of the options. If players choose to create a white male, or female for that matter, character, its their choice, but its a choice, its not forced onto the player.
    The problem you have is of perception, you are so blinkered by thinking there is a problem, that you create it for yourself.
    Games have for quite a while now, given players the option to choose their own colour, at least insofar as its not outside of the bounds of the games IP, i seriously doubt anyone cares what colour a dwarf, an orc, elf, or whatever, is.
    I know very well what racism is, the problem is you seem to think its only white people who can be accused of being racist, or that discriminating against white people is not in fact, racism.
    I don't know how many times i have to say it, Racial Diversity also includes Whites, without it, there would be no Racial Diversity, it would be no different than excluding Brown coloured skins, pretty sure there would be an uproar if that happened.
    And yes i am clearly telling you that you are not right, and not only are you not right about it being predominantly about being White, but also that its even predominantly Male, although if your going to complain about lack of diversity, i guess Rise of the Tombraider is a horrible game, because, the protagonist is a 'white female', in fact, all the tomb raider games feature the protagonist as a white female.


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827

    klash2def said:
    The latest call of duty game.. play the campaign mode.. when you get ready to make your character you can choose from GET THIS.. 20 DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF CAUCASIAN MALES/FEMALES. Not one single minority choice and in the multiplayer mode, where the class is your character for instance if you want to play with the sneaky assassin class, you will always play as the chick with the hood and bow.

    Well in this same mode there is ONE black dude that is the tank/gunner class and ONE asian woman which is a hunter type of class.. this is MULTIPLAYER  mode which felt like it was tacked on last second.  There are 9 classes and two are represented by minorities. 

    The meat of the game which is the campaign feats 20 diff WHITE MALES/Females to choose from at character creation.. no other race. Its insane.  This is the issue. I didn't make these games, how am I the racist one ? Im pointing out what is clearly there. 

    Were you able to create liberals, conservatives, liberterian? Pierced character? Emo ones? Goth ones? Naruto fans ones? Tatoo artist one? Make-up artist one? Singer one? Upper class? French? Italians? Swedish? Turks? Germans? Contact lenses one? Glasses one?  Babies? 70 year old ones? Obese? Anorexic? Cancer-inflicted?

    Why is it so important to represent a minority in regards to "race" when there are so many other traits in which minorities and majorities are not being represented?
    This is amazing wow.. so let's recap. TO YOU Asian, Black and Latino is the same as being Emo, Goth or Liberal?  Amazing. 

    You know damn well what this is about stop trying to deflect. Holy shit. 

    Let me break it down for you because I can tell you think you are smart by posting this.. maybe you haven't heard but ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES HAVE PEOPLE OF LATINO, AFRICAN  AND ASIAN DESCENT!

    Swedish (Sweden), Turk (Turkey), German (Germany), Italians(Italy), French (France)

    Although mostly you only see and hear about people who would be considered (Caucasian) by western standards in these countries you listed,  they are all still represented in video games more than their minority counterparts. nothing you said here proved anything.

    There is a huge difference between RACE, and all that other bullshit you threw in there to deflect. REALLY? What the fuck does being liberal or conservative have to do with racial equality in video games? 

    Why is racial equality important? Because people like you think it's NOT important. 

    PS (Not once have a called any of you racist but all you people who are calling ME racist for pointing this stuff out need to stop.. It's utter bullshit and sad that you aren't mature enough to discuss this shit without dropping that low. I did nothing racist and you must not know what racism actually is if you think I did something racist. Have a seat.)

     . 

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:

     I find it funny that you keep trying to flip this as me being racist towards carcausion people. Im not racist dude I wont say it again. I am pointing out what anybody with eyes can see. You dont have to like it. Its crazy how a person can point out something that is right there for all to see and they turn on the person as if the person is the fucked up one for even mentioning it.. smh. Anyway. 

    Like I said.. these are not opinions but actual facts. 95% of video games that feature a lead character that is human, features a Male Caucasian protag. That is factual.  

    When I say minorities I'm including Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. Women are something different than Minorities because that is a gender.. they are represented in my opinion in most games a bit more than minorities but the issue with them is HOW they are represented with the oversexulization and all but thats a whole other subject. And since you brought it up, YES the only women you see in games are Caucasian or overly sexed up asians. Its all a issue that gamers dont want to think about or face. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 
    Except its only by skin colour that games can objectively represent those so called minorities, and if by allowing for different racial types in a game isn't good enough, unless the main hero doesn't have a 'white' option, then how can that be a true representation of racial diversity?
    You aren't talking about diversity at all, you are objectively talking about taking away options for the players to choose from, in this case, white.
    The biggest hurdle you have to face, is that racial diversity, includes white.
    And no, racial diversity is not the case when the main hero is restricted to a single racial type, thats the polar opposite of racial diversity.
    So again, why is it that you wish to take away the option from players, to choose whatever colour they want, because when you take away one colour, its just the first step to rationalising away a reason to move onto the next, after all, Chinese are not exactly a minority, so, lets take away that option too.
    Racial diversity is inclusive.
    MAN WTF are you talking about? You keep trying to flip this and make it ME being racist against Carcausion people.. what is this strange agenda you have dude, I'm pointing out what is actually there.. I never once said take away the option to be carcausion.. Im saying give all the other races the same just due. WTF are you accusing me of being racist for? How is that racism?  Do you even know what racism is? 

    I'm pointing out what is clearly there. You cannot tell me Im not right. 95% of games feature a white male as the protag and again thats not something I made up, its not racist to point it out, and it IS a problem considering the VERY diverse nature of the people who actually play video games you would think devs would start to be more diverse when writing characters. 

    EDIT: everything you have posted here is full of ignorance and deflection. 
    You don't get it.
    In those games you are so clearly against, being White, whether male or female, is just one of the options. If players choose to create a white male, or female for that matter, character, its their choice, but its a choice, its not forced onto the player.
    The problem you have is of perception, you are so blinkered by thinking there is a problem, that you create it for yourself.
    Games have for quite a while now, given players the option to choose their own colour, at least insofar as its not outside of the bounds of the games IP, i seriously doubt anyone cares what colour a dwarf, an orc, elf, or whatever, is.
    I know very well what racism is, the problem is you seem to think its only white people who can be accused of being racist, or that discriminating against white people is not in fact, racism.
    I don't know how many times i have to say it, Racial Diversity also includes Whites, without it, there would be no Racial Diversity, it would be no different than excluding Brown coloured skins, pretty sure there would be an uproar if that happened.
    And yes i am clearly telling you that you are not right, and not only are you not right about it being predominantly about being White, but also that its even predominantly Male, although if your going to complain about lack of diversity, i guess Rise of the Tombraider is a horrible game, because, the protagonist is a 'white female', in fact, all the tomb raider games feature the protagonist as a white female.


    damn you are annoying. 
     
    WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. I NEVER ONCE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT REMOVING< REMOVAL OR SUBTRACTING ANYTHING WITH WHITE PEOPLE. WTF. I SAID INCLUDE EVERYBODY ELSE. 

    You keep coming around with these half ass answers that make no sense. Just log off. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827

    Quizzical said:
    First of all, this thread is a pretty clear violation of forum rules:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm

    The relevant rule:

    "MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics are forbidden."

    Picking apart some of the glaring errors in the original article would constitute another violation, so I'll stay away from it for now, pending an official confirmation that arguing about politics is now okay here.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But more generally, why must you import some of the undesirable things from real life and try to impose them on a game?  Why can't games be a place to get away from the things we fight about in real life?  Why can't they have their own civilizations, their own cultures, their own way of life, unrelated to what we see in real life?

    Many game developers actually try to do exactly that.  Most try to stay far away from political controversies, and wisely so.  Importing political controversies rarely adds anything good to a game, but only gratuitously offends a considerable chunk of your potential players.  Which side of a hot-button political issue a game pushes can affect which chunk of players you offend, but money from those you disagree with is just as valuable as money from those you agree with.
    Again. This is about racial diversity in video games. Period. That's the only thing I have been discussing here. If it makes it you uncomfortable, I'm not sorry, for that is the reality of not just myself but millions of other people who play video games. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,585

    mgilbrtsn said:

    This topic is growing dull.  Oscars - racist, MMOs - racist, Flint Michigan Water Supply - Racist, Cops - Racist, Justice - Racist, Movies - Racist, Global Warming - Racist.  

    Other than the fact, that I am the cause of the world's ills, I just wanna play some MMOs without the topic getting into diversity.  Not everything has to have a perfect representation depending on demographics.  There are many things that blacks are attracted to that whites aren't or hispanics are and asians aren't.

    That's ok.  We don't all have to be perfectly represented in everything.



    Lol and only a white male would say this. Not even surprised by the replies to a great article here.
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    I get enough of this "racial diversity" and "under-representation of 'colored people' on the US underwater basket weaving team" crap every time I turn on the damn news. And twice as much "PC police" crap at work.

    I play comp games to get away from all that real world stuff.

    I don't want to hear about, think about it, or read about it in regards to video games, especially when the games give you the chance to have green, blue, or orange skin sometimes.

    A game is just a game sometimes, and those people pushing an agenda should go the hell away and poison the communities of other things with their drivel.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    edited January 2016
    And on top of that, the "free market" is a wonderful thing: if people want to see a certain kind of game, or think a certain kind of game would have a following, they are free to make it, or fund it, or support people that do.

    But it is no one's responsibility to make a game a certain way, just because "you" think it should be or think it should exist.

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    edited January 2016
    Burntvet said:
    I get enough of this "racial diversity" and "under-representation of 'colored people' on the US underwater basket weaving team" crap every time I turn on the damn news. And twice as much "PC police" crap at work.

    I play comp games to get away from all that real world stuff.

    I don't want to hear about, think about it, or read about it in regards to video games, especially when the games give you the chance to have green, blue, or orange skin sometimes.

    A game is just a game sometimes, and those people pushing an agenda should go the hell away and poison the communities of other things with their drivel.

    Its drivel because its not you that is affected. That lack of empathy for other people shows me exactly the type of person you are.  You dont want to hear about it you dont want to see it but guess what IT'S THERE! Racial Inequality is there and it's been there in VIDEO GAMES forever! 

    Why are people on this "if I put my head under the blanket the monster goes away" bullshit? 

    It needs to be discussed and addressed so we can figure out how to move forward as a community The community of video game devs and players are very diverse. The games should reflect that. 

    "I like how video games have been, no need to change it now and dont mention race in video games because it makes me uncomfortable"  foh.

    Furthermore, the only reason you see it more now, these convos,  is because the previous generation of people couldn't really say shit about it at least not publicly. Now we have social media platforms so all this shit that has been "HIDDEN"  for years is being exposed.. it's in everything, and video games are part of that.

    This website is about video games and there is nothing wrong AT ALL with people wanting to bring up the issue that is happening in this particular industry.

    Thats whats forums are for. People can give their points of views but just because it makes you uncomfortable or you "dont wanna hear it"  it doesn't make it less valid. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    klash2def said:
    Burntvet said:
    I get enough of this "racial diversity" and "under-representation of 'colored people' on the US underwater basket weaving team" crap every time I turn on the damn news. And twice as much "PC police" crap at work.

    I play comp games to get away from all that real world stuff.

    I don't want to hear about, think about it, or read about it in regards to video games, especially when the games give you the chance to have green, blue, or orange skin sometimes.

    A game is just a game sometimes, and those people pushing an agenda should go the hell away and poison the communities of other things with their drivel.

    Its drivel because its not you that is affected. That lack of empathy for other people shows me exactly the type of person you are.  You dont want to hear about it you dont want to see it but guess what IT'S THERE! Racial Inequality is there and it's been there in VIDEO GAMES forever! 

    Why are people on this "if I put my head under the blanket the monster goes away" bullshit? 

    It needs to be discussed and addressed so we can figure out how to make it right for everybody. 

    "I like how video games have been, no need to change it now and dont mention race in video games because it makes me uncomfortable"  foh.
    And no one can have a different opinion than you or they are the devil?

    That is what we call "intolerance", perhaps you have heard about it.

    It is my God given right, to simply not give a shit.


    You want games with more "racial diversity"? Fine: start a company or fund a company that makes the games you want to play. Or support people that want to crowdfund such a thing. That is the solution.

    Whining and name calling is not a solution.
  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668
    Since this thread is still and going and clearly has fallen into what termed a violation in this site's ToS, I take it they like a little controversy for the traffic.
    I'm a minority in Canada and could give two shits about diversity IN GAMES. I take my fights to where they would do good, political rallies or hearings. Not random sites that have no power to enact change.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    Burntvet said:
    klash2def said:
    Burntvet said:
    I get enough of this "racial diversity" and "under-representation of 'colored people' on the US underwater basket weaving team" crap every time I turn on the damn news. And twice as much "PC police" crap at work.

    I play comp games to get away from all that real world stuff.

    I don't want to hear about, think about it, or read about it in regards to video games, especially when the games give you the chance to have green, blue, or orange skin sometimes.

    A game is just a game sometimes, and those people pushing an agenda should go the hell away and poison the communities of other things with their drivel.

    Its drivel because its not you that is affected. That lack of empathy for other people shows me exactly the type of person you are.  You dont want to hear about it you dont want to see it but guess what IT'S THERE! Racial Inequality is there and it's been there in VIDEO GAMES forever! 

    Why are people on this "if I put my head under the blanket the monster goes away" bullshit? 

    It needs to be discussed and addressed so we can figure out how to make it right for everybody. 

    "I like how video games have been, no need to change it now and dont mention race in video games because it makes me uncomfortable"  foh.
    And no one can have a different opinion than you or they are the devil?

    That is what we call "intolerance", perhaps you have heard about it.

    It is my God given right, to simply not give a shit.


    You want games with more "racial diversity"? Fine: start a company or fund a company that makes the games you want to play. Or support people that want to crowdfund such a thing. That is the solution.

    Whining and name calling is not a solution.
    Where did I call you a name. Stop making shit up. 

    People have been calling me a racist since I've been in here all because I pointed out that most video games feature a male caucasian protag. That ruffled feathers because it's true and it's sad to see the amount of closet racism that came out the woodworks on this site just because I mentioned it. 

    And all that extra bullshit you are saying "Go make a more racially diverse game" is the most insensitive and racist shit I've seen on here today. But you are entitled your own opinion. It's a forum after all.  Your mentality saddens me. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,869
    edited January 2016
    Burntvet said:


    Whining and name calling is not a solution.
    But it's EASY to whine and call people names instead of doing something useful. It's always someone else's fault.  Pointing out what OTHER people should do for you is apparently now a highly regarded skill in some circles (like academia). We used to value people that would see an opportunity and created a product or idea to fill that.  Today people value folks that believe they see an opportunity and complain that others should fix it.


    I mean, by his own words he thinks DIVERSITY is:

    Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    When pointed out that what he said is the OPPOSITE of diversity, he ignored it and went on to complain once again about what other people should do.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    edited January 2016
    Just because it makes you uncomfortable does not make it less true or valid. Just because you dont have a issue with it, doesnt mean other people also dont have a issue with it. We live in a different era where people now have a way to voice their concerns with big organizations in a public way and do that very quickly. 

    Racial equality has always been a issue in video games. Whether you see it or not may depend on several factors including where you live, life experience and what race you happen to be. I dont appreciate being called a racist to "white people" just because I pointed out that majority of games feature a Male Caucasian as the hero. If most games featured a black or latino male as the hero I would have said the same thing. Its boring to play the exact same type of archetype every time. 

    All the people saying "Go make your own game then." Okay then make your own game too when you start QQ about PVP being broken or Story Quests glitching out.. make your own game. Exactly.. see how much sense that statement makes? None.

    If there is something you dont like about a game you should be able to voice it, it just so happens that this racial thing is being talked about more and more which is great thing, because we need to face and make adjustments to these issues as a race of people being human beings. 


    To all of you who started calling me racist as soon as I mentioned these points, please tell which of these are racist of me to bring up? 

    1. I am black/african descent and most video games features Caucasian males as the lead protag
    2. Minorities are not represented well in video games (Latinos, Blacks, Asians) 
    3. Women are not a racial minority because that's another word for the female gender, but they are underrepresented. When they are, it's mostly oversexualized for the most part. 
    4. All of these things are problems for the gaming community that need to be addressed.

    All these are issues I see in video games. I'm not talking about society politics etc.. this is in video games!  I'm not the only one pointing this out. The society shit bleeds over and that's not my fault, I didn't make this stuff up it's what's really happening. 

    The point I am trying to make is if we are going to move forward and progress as a community we need to address, not hide from the issues that are blatantly there. Just because it's not your experience doesn't mean it's not real and not the experience of others.

    All of you saying, "Deal with it, it's just how it is" are the true racist because not speaking out or advocating that bullshit is the same as allowing devs to keep making lazy choices with video games and sell you what should be regular in game content as DLC. It needs to be nipped because its a issue for a lot of people. 


    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Burntvet said:


    Whining and name calling is not a solution.
    But it's EASY to whine and call people names instead of doing something useful. It's always someone else's fault.  Pointing out what OTHER people should do for you is apparently now a highly regarded skill in some circles (like academia). We used to value people that would see an opportunity and created a product or idea to fill that.  Today people value folks that believe they see an opportunity and complain that others should fix it.


    I mean, by his own words he think DIVERSITY is:

    Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    When pointed out that what he said is the OPPOSITE of diversity, he ignored it and went on to complain once again about what other people should do.
    I agree. And it is more or less a pathetic commentary on the current state of affairs.

    But such people are often the most intolerant ones around, that anyone that doesn't automatically agree with whatever their manifesto is, is the enemy.


    As to the rest, I am a great believer in the free market. If there are or are not products of a certain type, it is usually because there is demand for such a product, or not.

    And if their is not, there is probably a reason for it that has nothing to do with "diversity" or anything else: it has to do with money. Green is the only color smart companies are concerned with.

    And what? Black people have no money to buy video games or other kinds of entertainment products? They most certainly do, and are a sought after market share.  If not, there would be no BET, Beats, and dozens of other companies I could name.

    If games were not satisfying any particular market segment, sooner or later someone would put out a product that did. Because there s always money to be made, and the market abhors a vacuum.


    The only color business cares about it green, and no one can force any company to do anything that will make them lose money.  And "racism" does not ever enter into it.

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,827
    edited January 2016
    Burntvet said:


    Whining and name calling is not a solution.
    But it's EASY to whine and call people names instead of doing something useful. It's always someone else's fault.  Pointing out what OTHER people should do for you is apparently now a highly regarded skill in some circles (like academia). We used to value people that would see an opportunity and created a product or idea to fill that.  Today people value folks that believe they see an opportunity and complain that others should fix it.


    I mean, by his own words he thinks DIVERSITY is:

    Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    When pointed out that what he said is the OPPOSITE of diversity, he ignored it and went on to complain once again about what other people should do.
    Stop lying. I never called anyone names, i'm about to now though, liar. 

    Stop Paraphrasing shit I said and removing the context that I said it in. You think you are clever by taking my words and trying to make it something else. You know exactly how it was meant. I never once said The Definition of Racial Diversity is "When The main hero of the game is written in as a minority"

    READ THE FULL THING, Stop trying to take certain parts to make it match your agenda. You understand exactly what I said. 


    klash2def said:

    klash2def said:

    Like I said.. these are not opinions but actual facts. 95% of video games that feature a lead character that is human, features a Male Caucasian protag. That is factual.  

    When I say minorities I'm including Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. Women are something different than Minorities because that is a gender.. they are represented in my opinion in most games a bit more than minorities but the issue with them is HOW they are represented with the oversexulization and all but thats a whole other subject. And since you brought it up, YES the only women you see in games are Caucasian or overly sexed up asians. Its all a issue that gamers dont want to think about or face. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

     I bet all of you trying to deflect and make ME look like a racist because i'm bringing up valid points are more than likely white males. I'm talking to a brick wall here. Amazing. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    edited January 2016
    And lol at "Asians" being under-represented in video games.

    I think there might, just might, be a game or two that have come out of Asia in the last couple years (or hundreds). I bet they had Asian people program them too, had Asian heroes and were owned by Asian companies.

    But nevermind, you know, actual facts.

    Zealots hate facts.

This discussion has been closed.