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Minorities in Gaming - Theorizing Representation As Revolutionary - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

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  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    All I see in this thread are people trying to shoot down others for bringing up something very factual because it makes them feel "weird" to consider the truth of Minorities in this hobby. It's easy to overlook and shit on other people's perspective when all the protagonists or lead characters look like you.
    Except its BS, their not facts, but often agenda driven bigotry, and it doesn't seem to matter to some people how many times their 'facts' are proven to be utterly false, they have their agenda's and if you don't agree then your a racist or a misogynist, probably both, its just BS, and its time something was done about it.
    Okay, since its such BS prove me wrong? In the last DECADE, count the games that had a minority as lead.. then count the games that had white male as the lead..

    Now tell me that i'm lying about the representation of minorities in games.

    This has nothing to do with anything other than what's real. You being sick of it and ignorance does not change the facts. I could give a fuck about the term "SJW". I'm not about to be put in any box, ALL people should care about fair representation of other types of races and cultures and if you dont then that makes YOU a fucking bigot/racist. If caring about these things makes me a SJW then guess what I am, and you should be too. Unless like I said you are a bigot. 

     Social injustices are very real and they exist in EVERYTHING, yes that includes video games. Just because you are uncomfortable does not make it less true. 
    I guess you haven't played Farcry 4.
    Are you seriously suggesting that Link from Legend of Zelda is a while male? the problem that SJW's can't seem to get their head around is their games, they aren't real life.
    And yes, you clearly are a bigot, because you are uncompromising in your mindset, and you are clearly predjudiced against white people, if that makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps you should take a step back and think about it some more, because racism does not mean you are predjudiced against black people, but it means you are predjudiced against people of a certain colour, and for you, that colour apears to be 'white'.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    All I see in this thread are people trying to shoot down others for bringing up something very factual because it makes them feel "weird" to consider the truth of Minorities in this hobby. It's easy to overlook and shit on other people's perspective when all the protagonists or lead characters look like you.
    Except its BS, their not facts, but often agenda driven bigotry, and it doesn't seem to matter to some people how many times their 'facts' are proven to be utterly false, they have their agenda's and if you don't agree then your a racist or a misogynist, probably both, its just BS, and its time something was done about it.
    Okay, since its such BS prove me wrong? In the last DECADE, count the games that had a minority as lead.. then count the games that had white male as the lead..

    Now tell me that i'm lying about the representation of minorities in games.

    This has nothing to do with anything other than what's real. You being sick of it and ignorance does not change the facts. I could give a fuck about the term "SJW". I'm not about to be put in any box, ALL people should care about fair representation of other types of races and cultures and if you dont then that makes YOU a fucking bigot/racist. If caring about these things makes me a SJW then guess what I am, and you should be too. Unless like I said you are a bigot. 

     Social injustices are very real and they exist in EVERYTHING, yes that includes video games. Just because you are uncomfortable does not make it less true. 
    I guess you haven't played Farcry 4.
    Are you seriously suggesting that Link from Legend of Zelda is a while male? the problem that SJW's can't seem to get their head around is their games, they aren't real life.
    And yes, you clearly are a bigot, because you are uncompromising in your mindset, and you are clearly predjudiced against white people, if that makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps you should take a step back and think about it some more, because racism does not mean you are predjudiced against black people, but it means you are predjudiced against people of a certain colour, and for you, that colour apears to be 'white'.
    LMFAO. Firstly I am not prejudiced against anything. I am pointing out FACTS. Again you cannot counter what I say because its true. Do not make me laugh. Farcry 4? 1 game. It just game out.. what about the other games?

    You do realize HOW MANY GAMES HAVE COME OUT IN THE LAST DECADE??

    Can you name 10 games hell even 5 games/franchises that feat Minority leads? Simple question. Simple answer yes or no. 

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    All I see in this thread are people trying to shoot down others for bringing up something very factual because it makes them feel "weird" to consider the truth of Minorities in this hobby. It's easy to overlook and shit on other people's perspective when all the protagonists or lead characters look like you.
    Except its BS, their not facts, but often agenda driven bigotry, and it doesn't seem to matter to some people how many times their 'facts' are proven to be utterly false, they have their agenda's and if you don't agree then your a racist or a misogynist, probably both, its just BS, and its time something was done about it.
    Okay, since its such BS prove me wrong? In the last DECADE, count the games that had a minority as lead.. then count the games that had white male as the lead..

    Now tell me that i'm lying about the representation of minorities in games.

    This has nothing to do with anything other than what's real. You being sick of it and ignorance does not change the facts. I could give a fuck about the term "SJW". I'm not about to be put in any box, ALL people should care about fair representation of other types of races and cultures and if you dont then that makes YOU a fucking bigot/racist. If caring about these things makes me a SJW then guess what I am, and you should be too. Unless like I said you are a bigot. 

     Social injustices are very real and they exist in EVERYTHING, yes that includes video games. Just because you are uncomfortable does not make it less true. 
    I guess you haven't played Farcry 4.
    Are you seriously suggesting that Link from Legend of Zelda is a while male? the problem that SJW's can't seem to get their head around is their games, they aren't real life.
    And yes, you clearly are a bigot, because you are uncompromising in your mindset, and you are clearly predjudiced against white people, if that makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps you should take a step back and think about it some more, because racism does not mean you are predjudiced against black people, but it means you are predjudiced against people of a certain colour, and for you, that colour apears to be 'white'.
    LMFAO. Firstly I am not prejudiced against anything. I am pointing out FACTS. Again you cannot counter what I say because its true. Do not make me laugh. Farcry 4? 1 game. It just game out.. what about the other games?

    You do realize HOW MANY GAMES HAVE COME OUT IN THE LAST DECADE??

    Can you name 10 games hell even 5 games/franchises that feat Minority leads? Simple question. Simple answer yes or no. 

    Yes.
    Mass Effect, all of them, you can choose whatever colour/race you want.
    SW:TOR, again, choose whatever colour you like
    TESO, choose your colour again.
    Eve Online, also has whatever racials you want.
    Hell most MMO's have that option, as do any game where creating your own character is an option.


    But that isn't what you meant is it, you meant, any game where you didn't have the option to be white.
    or is that too simple an answer for you?
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    I will wait for you to go do your research. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    edited January 2016
    I can name 100 games/franchises in the last 24 months that feat white male protags. So @Phry im asking you to give me 10.. even 5 that have Minority Protags and you have the ENTIRE DECADE to search through. I will wait for you to counter this with something other than "get over it." 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    I can name 100 games/franchises in the last 24 months that feat white male protags. So @Phry im asking you to give me 10.. even 5 that have Minority Protags and you have the ENTIRE DECADE to search through. I will wait for you to counter this with something other than "get over it." 
    You didn't like the examples i gave you?
    Or was it because those games also gave the option for the player to be white, so by default, they don't count.
    be careful how you answer that, because you might come across as being racist.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    So, should we determine the required quotas for race and gender representation in games ? If so, who will determine the numbers and who will enforce them ? And which society will be used to provide the baseline for the representation ?

    MMO's are played all over the world. So logically, the largest representation of "humans" in a MMO should be of ethnic Chinese extraction.

    What's the point of making a game that will attempt to redress the imbalances in American society, when that game's reflection of representation will be totally incomprehensible to a Chinese player ?

    Social engineering is a very delicate topic.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,411
    Things take time.

    For example only recently have whites began to gain representation in rap and hip-hop. Acceptance is coming along with this representation.

    The Redguard from Bethesda in rpgs is sorta like the Eminem in hip-hop. Both are/were damn good starts. Over the next 10-15 years we are going to see the representation of minorities in gaming grow. All kids are being raised on video games now. With this representation acceptance will come.

    Good article.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    edited January 2016
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    All I see in this thread are people trying to shoot down others for bringing up something very factual because it makes them feel "weird" to consider the truth of Minorities in this hobby. It's easy to overlook and shit on other people's perspective when all the protagonists or lead characters look like you.
    Except its BS, their not facts, but often agenda driven bigotry, and it doesn't seem to matter to some people how many times their 'facts' are proven to be utterly false, they have their agenda's and if you don't agree then your a racist or a misogynist, probably both, its just BS, and its time something was done about it.
    Okay, since its such BS prove me wrong? In the last DECADE, count the games that had a minority as lead.. then count the games that had white male as the lead..

    Now tell me that i'm lying about the representation of minorities in games.

    This has nothing to do with anything other than what's real. You being sick of it and ignorance does not change the facts. I could give a fuck about the term "SJW". I'm not about to be put in any box, ALL people should care about fair representation of other types of races and cultures and if you dont then that makes YOU a fucking bigot/racist. If caring about these things makes me a SJW then guess what I am, and you should be too. Unless like I said you are a bigot. 

     Social injustices are very real and they exist in EVERYTHING, yes that includes video games. Just because you are uncomfortable does not make it less true. 
    I guess you haven't played Farcry 4.
    Are you seriously suggesting that Link from Legend of Zelda is a while male? the problem that SJW's can't seem to get their head around is their games, they aren't real life.
    And yes, you clearly are a bigot, because you are uncompromising in your mindset, and you are clearly predjudiced against white people, if that makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps you should take a step back and think about it some more, because racism does not mean you are predjudiced against black people, but it means you are predjudiced against people of a certain colour, and for you, that colour apears to be 'white'.
    LMFAO. Firstly I am not prejudiced against anything. I am pointing out FACTS. Again you cannot counter what I say because its true. Do not make me laugh. Farcry 4? 1 game. It just game out.. what about the other games?

    You do realize HOW MANY GAMES HAVE COME OUT IN THE LAST DECADE??

    Can you name 10 games hell even 5 games/franchises that feat Minority leads? Simple question. Simple answer yes or no. 

    Yes.
    Mass Effect, all of them, you can choose whatever colour/race you want.
    SW:TOR, again, choose whatever colour you like
    TESO, choose your colour again.
    Eve Online, also has whatever racials you want.
    Hell most MMO's have that option, as do any game where creating your own character is an option.


    But that isn't what you meant is it, you meant, any game where you didn't have the option to be white.
    or is that too simple an answer for you?
    Lets discuss. 

    So you think if you can pick skin option A-D the game is diverse. Even if your character still looks like a european with a very bad tan. Tell me this.. who was on the front of the box for Mass Effect? Was it a white male or was it a white male?  ME is one of my fav games of all time., but you only named 3/10 I asked for.

    In most of these games with the exception of 2 (TOR and ESO) when you create a character your characters features do not change even with sliders your character always looks european just with Skin A or Skin B. This is not the same thing as actually including facial features or hair textures. 

    For instance.. 

    European people have different hair than african descent people. But when I make my guy in lets say wow I have to choose a hairstyle that's not even possible for me to have. Don't feed me BS about its fantasy well then take ALL humans out the game if you're not going to represent all humans outside of just skin A or skin b. 

    ALSO notice something about your game selections and I knew you were going to do this because there is no other option but all of those games have character creators. GREAT. I can pick Skin C and move on right? Why don't they write games with Minority leads? 

    Fallout games have always had minorities as a race in character creation.. implies that the vault dweller/survivor etc could be black,asian or latino right? When you look up official game art photos who do you see as the representation of the hero? WHITE MALE. 

    The point is.. dont think because a dev tacks a Skin-A -D as an afterthought that the game is now racially diverse.  Its not the same.. dude even if you named 10 games that were exactly what I'm talking about ( I would be surprised) It still isn't even close to how many games exclude minorities in favor of White Male Protag.

    Games with a tacked on half assed character creator as an afterthought "let's add skin C" isn't the same.



    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    DMKano said:
    klash2def said:
    DMKano said:
    I am gonna go with "a topic not worthy of discussion".

    Very pretentious. Hey If you do not want to add to the conversation then you do not have to post here. Its really that easy. Also It's definitely a topic worthy of discussion... moving on. 


    Reading comprehension fail - read the original article

    "On the other, there are camps who posit that there is no issue of representation in video games, or that it’s not a worthy topic of discussion."

    The article gave this as a clear option - which is what i chose.

    Thanks for playing. 
     I'm sorry, I  read that as "I am going to go with a topic not worthy of discussion"  

    So I responded with "If you do not want to add to the conversation then you do not have to post here."  

    Explain why its not worthy of discussion or stop posting pretentious BS just to get a reaction. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    edited January 2016

    bcbully said:
    Things take time.

    For example only recently have whites began to gain representation in rap and hip-hop. Acceptance is coming along with this representation.

    The Redguard from Bethesda in rpgs is sorta like the Eminem in hip-hop. Both are/were damn good starts. Over the next 10-15 years we are going to see the representation of minorities in gaming grow. All kids are being raised on video games now. With this representation acceptance will come.

    Good article.
    I agree with this. It's just not happening right now and hasn't been for the last 30+ years. That's all I'm pointing out here. It's NOT happening right now. Games still lack diversity. In the future hopefully this changes.. frankly its boring playing the same type of archetypes over and over and over
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    All I see in this thread are people trying to shoot down others for bringing up something very factual because it makes them feel "weird" to consider the truth of Minorities in this hobby. It's easy to overlook and shit on other people's perspective when all the protagonists or lead characters look like you.
    Except its BS, their not facts, but often agenda driven bigotry, and it doesn't seem to matter to some people how many times their 'facts' are proven to be utterly false, they have their agenda's and if you don't agree then your a racist or a misogynist, probably both, its just BS, and its time something was done about it.
    Okay, since its such BS prove me wrong? In the last DECADE, count the games that had a minority as lead.. then count the games that had white male as the lead..

    Now tell me that i'm lying about the representation of minorities in games.

    This has nothing to do with anything other than what's real. You being sick of it and ignorance does not change the facts. I could give a fuck about the term "SJW". I'm not about to be put in any box, ALL people should care about fair representation of other types of races and cultures and if you dont then that makes YOU a fucking bigot/racist. If caring about these things makes me a SJW then guess what I am, and you should be too. Unless like I said you are a bigot. 

     Social injustices are very real and they exist in EVERYTHING, yes that includes video games. Just because you are uncomfortable does not make it less true. 
    I guess you haven't played Farcry 4.
    Are you seriously suggesting that Link from Legend of Zelda is a while male? the problem that SJW's can't seem to get their head around is their games, they aren't real life.
    And yes, you clearly are a bigot, because you are uncompromising in your mindset, and you are clearly predjudiced against white people, if that makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps you should take a step back and think about it some more, because racism does not mean you are predjudiced against black people, but it means you are predjudiced against people of a certain colour, and for you, that colour apears to be 'white'.
    LMFAO. Firstly I am not prejudiced against anything. I am pointing out FACTS. Again you cannot counter what I say because its true. Do not make me laugh. Farcry 4? 1 game. It just game out.. what about the other games?

    You do realize HOW MANY GAMES HAVE COME OUT IN THE LAST DECADE??

    Can you name 10 games hell even 5 games/franchises that feat Minority leads? Simple question. Simple answer yes or no. 

    Yes.
    Mass Effect, all of them, you can choose whatever colour/race you want.
    SW:TOR, again, choose whatever colour you like
    TESO, choose your colour again.
    Eve Online, also has whatever racials you want.
    Hell most MMO's have that option, as do any game where creating your own character is an option.


    But that isn't what you meant is it, you meant, any game where you didn't have the option to be white.
    or is that too simple an answer for you?
    Lets discuss. 

    So you think if you can pick skin option A-D the game is diverse. Even if your character still looks like a european with a very bad tan. Tell me this.. who was on the front of the box for Mass Effect? Was it a white male or was it a white male?  ME is one of my fav games of all time., but you only named 3/10 I asked for.

    In most of these games with the exception of 2 (TOR and ESO) when you create a character your characters features do not change even with sliders your character always looks european just with Skin A or Skin B. This is not the same thing as actually including facial features or hair textures. 

    For instance.. 

    European people have different hair than african descent people. But when I make my guy in lets say wow I have to choose a hairstyle that's not even possible for me to have. Don't feed me BS about its fantasy well then take ALL humans out the game if you're not going to represent all humans outside of just skin A or skin b. 

    ALSO notice something about your game selections and I knew you were going to do this because there is no other option but all of those games have character creators. GREAT. I can pick Skin C and move on right? Why don't they write games with Minority leads? 

    Fallout games have always had minorities as a race in character creation.. implies that the vault dweller/survivor etc could be black,asian or latino right? When you look up official game art photos who do you see as the representation of the hero? WHITE MALE. 

    The point is.. dont think because a dev tacks a Skin-A -D as an afterthought that the game is now racially diverse.  Its not the same.. dude even if you named 10 games that were exactly what I'm talking about ( I would be surprised) It still isn't even close to how many games exclude minorities in favor of White Male Protag.

    Games with a tacked on half assed character creator as an afterthought "let's add skin C" isn't the same.



    So even when games give you the option of choosing different skin colours, that isn't good enough for you?

    Its not that you don't want games to have diversity of race or colour, you just don't want them to be white, or specifically, you don't want them to be white males, white females are okay though? or are they also, 'not allowed' because they don't represent a 'minority'
    And then you go on about bone structure and hair etc. few games don't have that option, and the ones that don't its usually because the game engine doesn't support it, or you know, its Elves and Dwarves etc.

    These problems your having, its not really about the games diversity, their already diverse enough, but it sounds like you objectively don't want players to have the option to selectively choose to be White, be it male or female, and honestly, i don't know what your problem is with that, other than, you dislike them, for whatever reason.
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    klash2def said:
    WHITE MALE

    Hopefully this is the last topic like this on this site.

    Closet racism disguised as diversity against white men isn't acceptable.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,411
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    All I see in this thread are people trying to shoot down others for bringing up something very factual because it makes them feel "weird" to consider the truth of Minorities in this hobby. It's easy to overlook and shit on other people's perspective when all the protagonists or lead characters look like you.
    Except its BS, their not facts, but often agenda driven bigotry, and it doesn't seem to matter to some people how many times their 'facts' are proven to be utterly false, they have their agenda's and if you don't agree then your a racist or a misogynist, probably both, its just BS, and its time something was done about it.
    Okay, since its such BS prove me wrong? In the last DECADE, count the games that had a minority as lead.. then count the games that had white male as the lead..

    Now tell me that i'm lying about the representation of minorities in games.

    This has nothing to do with anything other than what's real. You being sick of it and ignorance does not change the facts. I could give a fuck about the term "SJW". I'm not about to be put in any box, ALL people should care about fair representation of other types of races and cultures and if you dont then that makes YOU a fucking bigot/racist. If caring about these things makes me a SJW then guess what I am, and you should be too. Unless like I said you are a bigot. 

     Social injustices are very real and they exist in EVERYTHING, yes that includes video games. Just because you are uncomfortable does not make it less true. 
    I guess you haven't played Farcry 4.
    Are you seriously suggesting that Link from Legend of Zelda is a while male? the problem that SJW's can't seem to get their head around is their games, they aren't real life.
    And yes, you clearly are a bigot, because you are uncompromising in your mindset, and you are clearly predjudiced against white people, if that makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps you should take a step back and think about it some more, because racism does not mean you are predjudiced against black people, but it means you are predjudiced against people of a certain colour, and for you, that colour apears to be 'white'.
    LMFAO. Firstly I am not prejudiced against anything. I am pointing out FACTS. Again you cannot counter what I say because its true. Do not make me laugh. Farcry 4? 1 game. It just game out.. what about the other games?

    You do realize HOW MANY GAMES HAVE COME OUT IN THE LAST DECADE??

    Can you name 10 games hell even 5 games/franchises that feat Minority leads? Simple question. Simple answer yes or no. 

    Yes.
    Mass Effect, all of them, you can choose whatever colour/race you want.
    SW:TOR, again, choose whatever colour you like
    TESO, choose your colour again.
    Eve Online, also has whatever racials you want.
    Hell most MMO's have that option, as do any game where creating your own character is an option.


    But that isn't what you meant is it, you meant, any game where you didn't have the option to be white.
    or is that too simple an answer for you?
    Lets discuss. 

    So you think if you can pick skin option A-D the game is diverse. Even if your character still looks like a european with a very bad tan. Tell me this.. who was on the front of the box for Mass Effect? Was it a white male or was it a white male?  ME is one of my fav games of all time., but you only named 3/10 I asked for.

    In most of these games with the exception of 2 (TOR and ESO) when you create a character your characters features do not change even with sliders your character always looks european just with Skin A or Skin B. This is not the same thing as actually including facial features or hair textures. 

    For instance.. 

    European people have different hair than african descent people. But when I make my guy in lets say wow I have to choose a hairstyle that's not even possible for me to have. Don't feed me BS about its fantasy well then take ALL humans out the game if you're not going to represent all humans outside of just skin A or skin b. 

    ALSO notice something about your game selections and I knew you were going to do this because there is no other option but all of those games have character creators. GREAT. I can pick Skin C and move on right? Why don't they write games with Minority leads? 

    Fallout games have always had minorities as a race in character creation.. implies that the vault dweller/survivor etc could be black,asian or latino right? When you look up official game art photos who do you see as the representation of the hero? WHITE MALE. 

    The point is.. dont think because a dev tacks a Skin-A -D as an afterthought that the game is now racially diverse.  Its not the same.. dude even if you named 10 games that were exactly what I'm talking about ( I would be surprised) It still isn't even close to how many games exclude minorities in favor of White Male Protag.

    Games with a tacked on half assed character creator as an afterthought "let's add skin C" isn't the same.



    So even when games give you the option of choosing different skin colours, that isn't good enough for you?

    Its not that you don't want games to have diversity of race or colour, you just don't want them to be white, or specifically, you don't want them to be white males, white females are okay though? or are they also, 'not allowed' because they don't represent a 'minority'
    And then you go on about bone structure and hair etc. few games don't have that option, and the ones that don't its usually because the game engine doesn't support it, or you know, its Elves and Dwarves etc.

    These problems your having, its not really about the games diversity, their already diverse enough, but it sounds like you objectively don't want players to have the option to selectively choose to be White, be it male or female, and honestly, i don't know what your problem is with that, other than, you dislike them, for whatever reason.
    You know that's not what he is saying. He's talking about the NPCs, the stories, you know the protagonist/antagonist. He has a fair point here.

    What's the problem with wanting more minority representation in those roles?
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Lets discuss. 

    So you think if you can pick skin option A-D the game is diverse. Even if your character still looks like a european with a very bad tan. Tell me this.. who was on the front of the box for Mass Effect? Was it a white male or was it a white male?  ME is one of my fav games of all time., but you only named 3/10 I asked for.

    In most of these games with the exception of 2 (TOR and ESO) when you create a character your characters features do not change even with sliders your character always looks european just with Skin A or Skin B. This is not the same thing as actually including facial features or hair textures. 

    For instance.. 

    European people have different hair than african descent people. But when I make my guy in lets say wow I have to choose a hairstyle that's not even possible for me to have. Don't feed me BS about its fantasy well then take ALL humans out the game if you're not going to represent all humans outside of just skin A or skin b. 

    ALSO notice something about your game selections and I knew you were going to do this because there is no other option but all of those games have character creators. GREAT. I can pick Skin C and move on right? Why don't they write games with Minority leads? 

    Fallout games have always had minorities as a race in character creation.. implies that the vault dweller/survivor etc could be black,asian or latino right? When you look up official game art photos who do you see as the representation of the hero? WHITE MALE. 

    The point is.. dont think because a dev tacks a Skin-A -D as an afterthought that the game is now racially diverse.  Its not the same.. dude even if you named 10 games that were exactly what I'm talking about ( I would be surprised) It still isn't even close to how many games exclude minorities in favor of White Male Protag.

    Games with a tacked on half assed character creator as an afterthought "let's add skin C" isn't the same.



    So even when games give you the option of choosing different skin colours, that isn't good enough for you?

    Its not that you don't want games to have diversity of race or colour, you just don't want them to be white, or specifically, you don't want them to be white males, white females are okay though? or are they also, 'not allowed' because they don't represent a 'minority'
    And then you go on about bone structure and hair etc. few games don't have that option, and the ones that don't its usually because the game engine doesn't support it, or you know, its Elves and Dwarves etc.

    These problems your having, its not really about the games diversity, their already diverse enough, but it sounds like you objectively don't want players to have the option to selectively choose to be White, be it male or female, and honestly, i don't know what your problem is with that, other than, you dislike them, for whatever reason.
     I find it funny that you keep trying to flip this as me being racist towards carcausion people. Im not racist dude I wont say it again. I am pointing out what anybody with eyes can see. You dont have to like it. Its crazy how a person can point out something that is right there for all to see and they turn on the person as if the person is the fucked up one for even mentioning it.. smh. Anyway. 

    Like I said.. these are not opinions but actual facts. 95% of video games that feature a lead character that is human, features a Male Caucasian protag. That is factual.  

    When I say minorities I'm including Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. Women are something different than Minorities because that is a gender.. they are represented in my opinion in most games a bit more than minorities but the issue with them is HOW they are represented with the oversexulization and all but thats a whole other subject. And since you brought it up, YES the only women you see in games are Caucasian or overly sexed up asians. Its all a issue that gamers dont want to think about or face. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • fodell54fodell54 Member RarePosts: 859

    Kiyoris said:

    this article contains



    sexual orientation

    heterosexuality
    whiteness

    really btw, "whiteness"?
    FOX

    race

    religion

    Soviets

    Cold War

    stereotypes

    females of color



    lmao, according to the MMORPG.COM rules, you should have been banned by now OP, multiple times



    Half the shit you post on here should have got you banned, However, here we are having this conversation. Get over it.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,813
    klash2def said:
    It's a silly argument.  People just want to be victims... even in games.

    /sad
    ^This

    Minorities have been misrepresented in video games since the start. 


    I tend to stay out of these arguments as a rational human being, but sometimes you just have to point out the obvious.  The earliest MMOs were created by white, male, WESTERN culture and based on WESTERN literature such as LOTR, CONAN, ELRIC, etc...  Then after that ASIAN cultures decided they liked games a lot and they made their own. Thus many MMOs have strong ASIAN themes.  They didn't whine that the white man's games didn't reflect them and the games must change.  They went and created their OWN which are in many instances BETTER.

    So stop choosing to be a victim.  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    The latest call of duty game.. play the campaign mode.. when you get ready to make your character you can choose from GET THIS.. 20 DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF CAUCASIAN MALES/FEMALES. Not one single minority choice and in the multiplayer mode, where the class is your character for instance if you want to play with the sneaky assassin class, you will always play as the chick with the hood and bow.

    Well in this same mode there is ONE black dude that is the tank/gunner class and ONE asian woman which is a hunter type of class.. this is MULTIPLAYER  mode which felt like it was tacked on last second.  There are 9 classes and two are represented by minorities. 

    The meat of the game which is the campaign feats 20 diff WHITE MALES/Females to choose from at character creation.. no other race. Its insane.  This is the issue. I didn't make these games, how am I the racist one ? Im pointing out what is clearly there. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Lets discuss. 

    So you think if you can pick skin option A-D the game is diverse. Even if your character still looks like a european with a very bad tan. Tell me this.. who was on the front of the box for Mass Effect? Was it a white male or was it a white male?  ME is one of my fav games of all time., but you only named 3/10 I asked for.

    In most of these games with the exception of 2 (TOR and ESO) when you create a character your characters features do not change even with sliders your character always looks european just with Skin A or Skin B. This is not the same thing as actually including facial features or hair textures. 

    For instance.. 

    European people have different hair than african descent people. But when I make my guy in lets say wow I have to choose a hairstyle that's not even possible for me to have. Don't feed me BS about its fantasy well then take ALL humans out the game if you're not going to represent all humans outside of just skin A or skin b. 

    ALSO notice something about your game selections and I knew you were going to do this because there is no other option but all of those games have character creators. GREAT. I can pick Skin C and move on right? Why don't they write games with Minority leads? 

    Fallout games have always had minorities as a race in character creation.. implies that the vault dweller/survivor etc could be black,asian or latino right? When you look up official game art photos who do you see as the representation of the hero? WHITE MALE. 

    The point is.. dont think because a dev tacks a Skin-A -D as an afterthought that the game is now racially diverse.  Its not the same.. dude even if you named 10 games that were exactly what I'm talking about ( I would be surprised) It still isn't even close to how many games exclude minorities in favor of White Male Protag.

    Games with a tacked on half assed character creator as an afterthought "let's add skin C" isn't the same.



    So even when games give you the option of choosing different skin colours, that isn't good enough for you?

    Its not that you don't want games to have diversity of race or colour, you just don't want them to be white, or specifically, you don't want them to be white males, white females are okay though? or are they also, 'not allowed' because they don't represent a 'minority'
    And then you go on about bone structure and hair etc. few games don't have that option, and the ones that don't its usually because the game engine doesn't support it, or you know, its Elves and Dwarves etc.

    These problems your having, its not really about the games diversity, their already diverse enough, but it sounds like you objectively don't want players to have the option to selectively choose to be White, be it male or female, and honestly, i don't know what your problem is with that, other than, you dislike them, for whatever reason.
     I find it funny that you keep trying to flip this as me being racist towards carcausion people. Im not racist dude I wont say it again. I am pointing out what anybody with eyes can see. You dont have to like it. Its crazy how a person can point out something that is right there for all to see and they turn on the person as if the person is the fucked up one for even mentioning it.. smh. Anyway. 

    Like I said.. these are not opinions but actual facts. 95% of video games that feature a lead character that is human, features a Male Caucasian protag. That is factual.  

    When I say minorities I'm including Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. Women are something different than Minorities because that is a gender.. they are represented in my opinion in most games a bit more than minorities but the issue with them is HOW they are represented with the oversexulization and all but thats a whole other subject. And since you brought it up, YES the only women you see in games are Caucasian or overly sexed up asians. Its all a issue that gamers dont want to think about or face. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 
    Except its only by skin colour that games can objectively represent those so called minorities, and if by allowing for different racial types in a game isn't good enough, unless the main hero doesn't have a 'white' option, then how can that be a true representation of racial diversity?
    You aren't talking about diversity at all, you are objectively talking about taking away options for the players to choose from, in this case, white.
    The biggest hurdle you have to face, is that racial diversity, includes white.
    And no, racial diversity is not the case when the main hero is restricted to a single racial type, thats the polar opposite of racial diversity.
    So again, why is it that you wish to take away the option from players, to choose whatever colour they want, because when you take away one colour, its just the first step to rationalising away a reason to move onto the next, after all, Chinese are not exactly a minority, so, lets take away that option too.
    Racial diversity is inclusive.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,813
    klash2def said:
    . I didn't make these games,  
    Man up and make one then.  Stop whining about what OTHER people make.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,760
    I really do wish we could leave real world politics out of the games we play. I really cannot believe that this thread has "gone there".

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824
    edited January 2016
    Kiyoris said:
    klash2def said:
    WHITE MALE

    Hopefully this is the last topic like this on this site.

    Closet racism disguised as diversity against white men isn't acceptable.
    Please continue to try to flip what I'm saying into me being a racist. Its amusing. I'm not defending that anymore, I know what I am not, and what i am. I'm pointing out what is clearly there to see. It makes you uncomfortable because its true but guess what? I didn't make it true. I just pointed it out. Hopefully it changes. It's not new. 

    WE ACTUALLY NEED MORE TOPICS ABOUT RACIAL DIVERSITY IN VIDEO GAMES.  
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824

    klash2def said:
    It's a silly argument.  People just want to be victims... even in games.

    /sad
    ^This

    Minorities have been misrepresented in video games since the start. 


    I tend to stay out of these arguments as a rational human being, but sometimes you just have to point out the obvious.  The earliest MMOs were created by white, male, WESTERN culture and based on WESTERN literature such as LOTR, CONAN, ELRIC, etc...  Then after that ASIAN cultures decided they liked games a lot and they made their own. Thus many MMOs have strong ASIAN themes.  They didn't whine that the white man's games didn't reflect them and the games must change.  They went and created their OWN which are in many instances BETTER.

    So stop choosing to be a victim.  
    wow. just wow at the level of ignorance on this website. 
    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,813
    klash2def said:
    Kiyoris said:
    klash2def said:
    WHITE MALE

    Hopefully this is the last topic like this on this site.

    Closet racism disguised as diversity against white men isn't acceptable.
    Please continue to try to flip what I'm saying into me being a racist. Its amusing. I'm not defending that anymore, I know what I am,  
    So do we.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,824

    klash2def said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Lets discuss. 

    So you think if you can pick skin option A-D the game is diverse. Even if your character still looks like a european with a very bad tan. Tell me this.. who was on the front of the box for Mass Effect? Was it a white male or was it a white male?  ME is one of my fav games of all time., but you only named 3/10 I asked for.

    In most of these games with the exception of 2 (TOR and ESO) when you create a character your characters features do not change even with sliders your character always looks european just with Skin A or Skin B. This is not the same thing as actually including facial features or hair textures. 

    For instance.. 

    European people have different hair than african descent people. But when I make my guy in lets say wow I have to choose a hairstyle that's not even possible for me to have. Don't feed me BS about its fantasy well then take ALL humans out the game if you're not going to represent all humans outside of just skin A or skin b. 

    ALSO notice something about your game selections and I knew you were going to do this because there is no other option but all of those games have character creators. GREAT. I can pick Skin C and move on right? Why don't they write games with Minority leads? 

    Fallout games have always had minorities as a race in character creation.. implies that the vault dweller/survivor etc could be black,asian or latino right? When you look up official game art photos who do you see as the representation of the hero? WHITE MALE. 

    The point is.. dont think because a dev tacks a Skin-A -D as an afterthought that the game is now racially diverse.  Its not the same.. dude even if you named 10 games that were exactly what I'm talking about ( I would be surprised) It still isn't even close to how many games exclude minorities in favor of White Male Protag.

    Games with a tacked on half assed character creator as an afterthought "let's add skin C" isn't the same.



    So even when games give you the option of choosing different skin colours, that isn't good enough for you?

    Its not that you don't want games to have diversity of race or colour, you just don't want them to be white, or specifically, you don't want them to be white males, white females are okay though? or are they also, 'not allowed' because they don't represent a 'minority'
    And then you go on about bone structure and hair etc. few games don't have that option, and the ones that don't its usually because the game engine doesn't support it, or you know, its Elves and Dwarves etc.

    These problems your having, its not really about the games diversity, their already diverse enough, but it sounds like you objectively don't want players to have the option to selectively choose to be White, be it male or female, and honestly, i don't know what your problem is with that, other than, you dislike them, for whatever reason.
     I find it funny that you keep trying to flip this as me being racist towards carcausion people. Im not racist dude I wont say it again. I am pointing out what anybody with eyes can see. You dont have to like it. Its crazy how a person can point out something that is right there for all to see and they turn on the person as if the person is the fucked up one for even mentioning it.. smh. Anyway. 

    Like I said.. these are not opinions but actual facts. 95% of video games that feature a lead character that is human, features a Male Caucasian protag. That is factual.  

    When I say minorities I'm including Latinos, Blacks, and Asians. Women are something different than Minorities because that is a gender.. they are represented in my opinion in most games a bit more than minorities but the issue with them is HOW they are represented with the oversexulization and all but thats a whole other subject. And since you brought it up, YES the only women you see in games are Caucasian or overly sexed up asians. Its all a issue that gamers dont want to think about or face. 

    Just so you know because its obvious you dont, SKIN Color does not equal Racial diversity. I know black people who have really light skin and could pass as white from far away. Asian people have the exact skin  as caucasian people yet they too are minorities in games, (They are represented more than blacks and latinos)  Stop talking about skin colors. 

    Racial Diversity would be when the game clearly added features other than just skin A-D on a european looking face. Racial Diversity would be when the main hero of the game is written in as a minority. That's racial diversity. 

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West

    "Being “colorblind” is not the solution to racism. See people fully. Love people deeply"
    -Bernice King

    "Putting a woman, a person of color, a queer character, a disabled character (in games) isn't some agenda, it's making games that reflect the world we live in." 

    "America loves intelligence but scorns intellect"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, yes you've heard what I've heard


This discussion has been closed.