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Minorities in Gaming - Theorizing Representation As Revolutionary - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    I know this article wasn't about this but it reminded me of hiring practices in the gaming industry and how some on site staff photos look more like family reunion photos.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Kiyoris said:
    Can we please keep SJW agenda driven articles out of MMORPG.

    Besides the fact that your "facts" are all wrong, if a regular user had posted this in the forum, the post would have been removed by a mod.
    Fer once...we agree :P

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • IbjaIbja Member UncommonPosts: 25




    77 cents is even correct





    It's not correct, that's why the Washington Post, gave it 2 pinnochio ratings.





    It doesn't take into account how long you work, how many extra hours you work, which jobs you do.






    Do you believe a man working on an oil rig doing incredibly dangerous jobs should not be allowed to earn more than women in a child care setting?




    The top 10 most dangerous jobs are dominated by male professions. They should earn more, and I'm glad they do, because no one else will do those jobs.




    Petroleum Engineering is 87% male. It is also one of the most dangerous and lonely jobs in the world.



    And it doesn't take into account recent trends either. Women under 30 are now earning more in Europe than men: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds



    You edited your post while I was responding so let me make an appropriate response to your new text.

    The fact that those fields are dominated by men is not because women don't want to do the work. It is much harder for women to be hired in those fields, and since nearly all of the highest paying fields are STEM related, it doesn't take much effort to find sources that show how much more difficult it is to be a woman hired in those fields, or even to be accepted into programs that train people to work in those fields.

    https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~srugheimer/Women_in_STEM_Resources.html

    http://gender.stanford.edu/news/2014/why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer (a similar article that expands on one of the sources in the previous)

    And here is the Washington Post, trying again to debunk this discrimination, but pointing out that, as we already know, we are okay hiring women to TEACH science, but not to participate in higher paying STEM jobs: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/14/study-finds-surprisingly-that-women-are-favored-for-jobs-in-stem/

    But just in case you need more, here is another article from the Columbia Business School about how women are discriminated against in STEM fields: http://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/newsroom/newsn/2700/new-research-proves-gender-bias-extraordinarily-prevalent-in-stem-careers
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,504
    Nothing rustles my jimmies more when I can't be an independent Asian/Black gender-fluid "curvy" 'womyn' in a video game. Equal representation for all.

    I'd also recommend all female characters wear hijabs as a requirement in MMO's as well.

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    lol...look at all the people arguing about nothing here again.

    Heretique summed it up (I think) with great humor...

    "Nothing rustles my jimmies more when I can't be an independent Asian/Black gender-fluid "curvy" 'womyn' in a video game. Equal representation for all.

    I'd also recommend all female characters wear hijabs as a requirement in MMO's as well."

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited January 2016
    this article contains

    sexual orientation
    heterosexuality
    whiteness
    really btw, "whiteness"?
    FOX
    race
    religion
    Soviets
    Cold War
    stereotypes
    females of color

    lmao, according to the MMORPG.COM rules, you should have been banned by now OP, multiple times
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,320
    This topic is growing dull.  Oscars - racist, MMOs - racist, Flint Michigan Water Supply - Racist, Cops - Racist, Justice - Racist, Movies - Racist, Global Warming - Racist.  

    Other than the fact, that I am the cause of the world's ills, I just wanna play some MMOs without the topic getting into diversity.  Not everything has to have a perfect representation depending on demographics.  There are many things that blacks are attracted to that whites aren't or hispanics are and asians aren't.

    That's ok.  We don't all have to be perfectly represented in everything.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182
    Kiyoris said:
    Can we please keep SJW agenda driven articles out of MMORPG.


    Could not agree more.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 321
    Kiyoris said:
    Can we please keep SJW agenda driven articles out of MMORPG.


    Could not agree more.
    There's too much money in it. You are going to see it more and more.

    But remember, these people only exist on the internet and aren't effecting the real world. /s

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • IbjaIbja Member UncommonPosts: 25

    mgilbrtsn said:

    This topic is growing dull.  Oscars - racist, MMOs - racist, Flint Michigan Water Supply - Racist, Cops - Racist, Justice - Racist, Movies - Racist, Global Warming - Racist.  

    Other than the fact, that I am the cause of the world's ills, I just wanna play some MMOs without the topic getting into diversity.  Not everything has to have a perfect representation depending on demographics.  There are many things that blacks are attracted to that whites aren't or hispanics are and asians aren't.

    That's ok.  We don't all have to be perfectly represented in everything.



    Could you please clarify your statement "There are many thing that blacks are attracted to that whites aren't or hispanics are and asians aren't." I would love to know some of the things that you are referring to that certain races are attracted to and if, by implication, you are trying to say that video games are something for white people and other races should just stick to what their race is naturally attracted to... because it sort of seems like that's what you mean.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,826
    Bahhhhh
    The only thing race means to me in gaming is which one gives me the best stats for the class I want to roll.
  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 321
    SWTOR is the only game I've ever played a human.

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,320
    First, to you point about it being for white people.  I am not saying that.  What I am saying is that if you look at the majority of people who go to Dr. Who conventions, Fantasy/SciFi events, Esports competitions, you will see that they are overwhelmingly white.  Not because they are for white people or that white people stick together.  Some things for whatever reason attract certain groups of people.  Neither good nor bad.  Doesn't mean that Esports is racist.  This is my point.  Not everything that doesn't follow the 'everybody and everything must be evenly represented and if not, must be made to be so' is wrong in my opinion.

    For specific examples.

    Professional Basketball is 74.x black.  Hardly in keeping with diversity based on population.  Does that mean that we need to work on that?  Is professional basketball a racist organization?  No, just happens to be.

    Many asians that I know (and yes I know a few, lived in Asia for some time).  mahjong and go is played around the world, but most people I know who play them are asian.  Even in the united states.  Could it be that there is a cultural aspect that asians gravitate more to these activities.  Is it a racist game because all top 10 world champions are asians? Should we diversify that go organization to better represent that worlds demographics?

    I lived in El Paso, and there were definitely places where hispanics enjoyed things that others weren't represented.  Could there be a cultural component that people of the area gravitate to certain activities?  Are they racist?

    None of these examples is perfect, and you and many will parse them to show why they aren't like.  That's fine.  My point is simply that not everything is perfectly in line with demographics and it doesn't make it wrong. Different groups of people, sometimes, gravitate to different types of activities.  It's not good, bad, indifferent.  It just is.

    Now if there is an effort to prohibit or influence this, then that is a separate issue which would need to be addressed. 

    Have at it.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,406
    Good article Som. It amazes me how many people don't get the simple fact that Western society is a white hetero male society (non-white regions of the world are very much the same minus the white part)  and have a hard time understanding why those who don't fit within that demographic feel the need to lobby for change.

    "...when a member from a minority group is required to speak out against their marginalization, and is subsequently told that they’re being overly sensitive or out of line."

    And our esteemed forum members in typical internet trollish fashion are quick to throw out "SJW" in a derogatory manner ... as if working toward social justice were a bad thing, lol)

    Your article also brought to mind the zombie bit from family feud a couple of years ago:


     
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182





    Kiyoris said:

    Can we please keep SJW agenda driven articles out of MMORPG.





    Could not agree more.


    There's too much money in it. You are going to see it more and more.

    But remember, these people only exist on the internet and aren't effecting the real world. /s




    Actually they sit in our schools and push this crap on impressionable minds. I really fear for the future. When this used to happen, people would relocate to a new land. Well, we don't have any more lands to settle...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • CIB3CIB3 Member UncommonPosts: 120
    edited January 2016
    Great, next time I will make as character a vegan feminist black gay orc shaman to make happy all activists!
    :)
  • sominatorsominator Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff UncommonPosts: 53

    Maquiame said:

    I stand on racial diversity as a way to tell new stories and bring more gameplay aspects into a game. As a person of color and a male at that I can say for sure that males of color who are forthright and outspoken are not seen as having good qualities but are instead seen as intimidating and as threats to the so called status qo, especially in the videogames industry.





    Its also a shame that often times games turn to whitewashing or complete reboots to rebrand a "minority" race as something else in mmorpgs and their sequels.



    Examples of this include the whitewashing of the Elonians and the Krytans from GW1 to GW2

    The Arabization and whitewashing of the Redguard of the TES series

    The complete washover of the Erudites of EQ2, basically then saying to the audience "Well you can make brown humans instead - which means nothing unique, nothing special about them, no lore and this insistence to take away culture to roll them under the the category of humanity being all the same, the washing away of all uniquness and the story aspects associated with them.





    1. I want to see more portrayals of different cultures in my mmorpgs. I don't care if its Mongolian, East Indian, Native American or Russian. The same tropes over and over again makes things boring and as an explorer type I get tired of seeing the same Euro-tropes over and over again.



    2. The complete dismissal of what new cultures and new lands in certain areas can bring to the mmo space as gameplay. For example - The African analogue lands offer better diamonds than anywhere else in the world thus causing everyone who wants diamonds to go there to find them as a crafting resource. The biggest bears are found in the Russian analogue area therefore as a crafter enabling me to get a higher fur yield if I wish to go hunt them down for my business. Housing in other lands offers choices that the standard area does not. Want an exotic home? Go across seas and find it. Want to learn that special type of Necromancy? Head to the Dark Jungles of the Africa analogue and find the natives that will teach it to you. Wish to learn how to make stronger swords using advanced asian mellalurgy that will teach you how to fold swords? Head over to the Asian analogue to find the greatest swordmaker there ever was ala Kill Bill.





    I don't see why this is hard for most developers to grasp and in the Age of Google where a simple five minute search can teach you everything you want to know there are no excuses, period.

    Diversity just to have it lends credence to the cries of those that shout SJW to the mountain tops.

    Diversity that actually ADDS to the game world, its depth, its gameplay systems and its uniqueness brings validity on why it should be there because then it benefits everyone, not just those like myself who wish to play non Euro characters that matter to the world story.

    Besides if you are building a world you should treat it as a WORLD and not one large continent of vanilla ice cream sameness.

    Use diversity to add to the story and expand the world. Use it to add to players telling better stories of their own. Was I the only one who enjoyed seeing Xena travel to the Asian areas of her world because it offered a new story? I hope not.


    "I remember the time when we hung out with Prince Akim in his marble palace in Sonhai."




    Well said!
  • sominatorsominator Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff UncommonPosts: 53

    Iselin said:

    Good article Som. It amazes me how many people don't get the simple fact that Western society is a white hetero male society (non-white regions of the world are very much the same minus the white part)  and have a hard time understanding why those who don't fit within that demographic feel the need to lobby for change.

    "...when a member from a minority group is required to speak out against their marginalization, and is subsequently told that they’re being overly sensitive or out of line."

    And our esteemed forum members in typical internet trollish fashion are quick to throw out "SJW" in a derogatory manner ... as if working toward social justice were a bad thing, lol)

    Your article also brought to mind the zombie bit from family feud a couple of years ago:


     



    This is great. :)
  • IbjaIbja Member UncommonPosts: 25

    mgilbrtsn said:

    First, to you point about it being for white people.  I am not saying that.  What I am saying is that if you look at the majority of people who go to Dr. Who conventions, Fantasy/SciFi events, Esports competitions, you will see that they are overwhelmingly white.  Not because they are for white people or that white people stick together.  Some things for whatever reason attract certain groups of people.  Neither good nor bad.  Doesn't mean that Esports is racist.  This is my point.  Not everything that doesn't follow the 'everybody and everything must be evenly represented and if not, must be made to be so' is wrong in my opinion.
    .



    I think what you are looking at is an example of lack of representation divulging interest. While there are some supporting characters that have been non-white in the show, the Doctor has certainly never been reincarnated as anything but a white man. And despite this fact, there are still huge online followings from people of color for the show. I've never been to a convention, nor do I know where to find statistics on attendance, so I can't really speak to that.

    However, basketball is an interesting example, because it has a history that is tied up in racism and exploitation, and legislation, like Proposition 48, has even been passed in recent history to attempt to combat this (namely, bringing in black students to college on basketball scholarships but not giving them access to the education resources at the college.) You could ask why there aren't more black people present in baseball. It certainly isn't a lack of interest. I worked at a public school in New York City, and in a school that was almost entirely black, there were three baseball teams and one basketball team. At the end of those student's high school careers, some of the lead players on the baseball team were considered for BASKETBALL scholarships and none at all were considered for baseball. In addition, if white people want to play basketball, there is no public outcry against them, there is no demand for them to pipe down and just "let things be the way they are." They are perfectly welcomed to play. You can look at a similar situation in tennis, with Serena Williams, and the unreasonably large amount of vitriolic HATE she receives, especially from online communities, that other white tennis stars, who are awarded more fame despite performing lower than her.

    I don't think having a cultural tie to Mahjong is quite the same thing either. It is probably true that more people of Asian descent play the game that others, but some quick googling about the popularity of the game indicates that it is, in fact, very popular among white Americans too, and has been for a long time. And there is no backlash against White Americans who want to play, or the fact that there is a specific American version of the rules for the game.

    So here is the point I am trying to make: Many spaces in the west that are largely populated by people of color were created to fill the void of exclusion felt by their communities. Whether by choice (choosing to play Mahjong rather than, perhaps, poker) or by manipulation (colleges encouraging black students to only be athletes and not scholars) also leads to the fact that those spaces are not exclusionary for white people should they choose to be a part of them.

    And what is disturbing is that when an article asks for the gaming community to think about representation and stereotypes the the possibility that those things can alienate non-white gamers, the reaction is disgusting. Instead of responding with any kind of positive energy, and saying, "Yeah diversity, it's not that hard, and likely won't change my personal gaming experience, let's do it! Let's be inclusive!" The response is, essentially, "F**k you! Don't come in here asking to be represented in a field that I am already largely represented in! How dare you! If we have diversity, gaming will die!"

    I mean look at one of the earlier responses, which I can only imagine is a response to the section of the article that stated (and I'm paraphrasing) that using imagery in games to reinforce that white males are superior to everyone was harmful:

    "It is truly disturbing the amount of blatant biases and discrimination against white people and white males which are OPENLY shoved down your throats by this vocal minority who seeks to control everyone's lives. Maybe even worse is the intimidation and bullying they use to suppress anyone who might oppose their views. You will instantly be labelled as a racist, sexist bigot (which they have created the stereotype that this is the worst possible type of human even lower than a murderer or rapist whom will atleast be given second chances). My post might come off as a little extreme but it the truth of what is transpiring. Just read this article, read the sources, read the news there is this insidious attack it never stops and these people have infiltrated the core of our information as they fill the ranks of teachers/professors and media/journalists. blacklivesmatter, the idea the core of our country is "evil old white male cronies", the never ending plight of the "minority" at the cost of the majority. "

    I would like to know a single disadvantage that things like the black lives matter movement asking for representation really presents to a white man. It really makes me ashamed to be a part of online gaming culture. There isn't even an attempt here to listen to the non-white voice, it just gets shut down as "the vocal minority who seeks to control everyone's lives."

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,320
    Ibja said:

    mgilbrtsn said:

    First, to you point about it being for white people.  I am not saying that.  What I am saying is that if you look at the majority of people who go to Dr. Who conventions, Fantasy/SciFi events, Esports competitions, you will see that they are overwhelmingly white.  Not because they are for white people or that white people stick together.  Some things for whatever reason attract certain groups of people.  Neither good nor bad.  Doesn't mean that Esports is racist.  This is my point.  Not everything that doesn't follow the 'everybody and everything must be evenly represented and if not, must be made to be so' is wrong in my opinion.
    .



    I think what you are looking at is an example of lack of representation divulging interest. While there are some supporting characters that have been non-white in the show, the Doctor has certainly never been reincarnated as anything but a white man. And despite this fact, there are still huge online followings from people of color for the show. I've never been to a convention, nor do I know where to find statistics on attendance, so I can't really speak to that.

    However, basketball is an interesting example, because it has a history that is tied up in racism and exploitation, and legislation, like Proposition 48, has even been passed in recent history to attempt to combat this (namely, bringing in black students to college on basketball scholarships but not giving them access to the education resources at the college.) You could ask why there aren't more black people present in baseball. It certainly isn't a lack of interest. I worked at a public school in New York City, and in a school that was almost entirely black, there were three baseball teams and one basketball team. At the end of those student's high school careers, some of the lead players on the baseball team were considered for BASKETBALL scholarships and none at all were considered for baseball. In addition, if white people want to play basketball, there is no public outcry against them, there is no demand for them to pipe down and just "let things be the way they are." They are perfectly welcomed to play. You can look at a similar situation in tennis, with Serena Williams, and the unreasonably large amount of vitriolic HATE she receives, especially from online communities, that other white tennis stars, who are awarded more fame despite performing lower than her.

    I don't think having a cultural tie to Mahjong is quite the same thing either. It is probably true that more people of Asian descent play the game that others, but some quick googling about the popularity of the game indicates that it is, in fact, very popular among white Americans too, and has been for a long time. And there is no backlash against White Americans who want to play, or the fact that there is a specific American version of the rules for the game.

    So here is the point I am trying to make: Many spaces in the west that are largely populated by people of color were created to fill the void of exclusion felt by their communities. Whether by choice (choosing to play Mahjong rather than, perhaps, poker) or by manipulation (colleges encouraging black students to only be athletes and not scholars) also leads to the fact that those spaces are not exclusionary for white people should they choose to be a part of them.

    And what is disturbing is that when an article asks for the gaming community to think about representation and stereotypes the the possibility that those things can alienate non-white gamers, the reaction is disgusting. Instead of responding with any kind of positive energy, and saying, "Yeah diversity, it's not that hard, and likely won't change my personal gaming experience, let's do it! Let's be inclusive!" The response is, essentially, "F**k you! Don't come in here asking to be represented in a field that I am already largely represented in! How dare you! If we have diversity, gaming will die!"

    I mean look at one of the earlier responses, which I can only imagine is a response to the section of the article that stated (and I'm paraphrasing) that using imagery in games to reinforce that white males are superior to everyone was harmful:

    "It is truly disturbing the amount of blatant biases and discrimination against white people and white males which are OPENLY shoved down your throats by this vocal minority who seeks to control everyone's lives. Maybe even worse is the intimidation and bullying they use to suppress anyone who might oppose their views. You will instantly be labelled as a racist, sexist bigot (which they have created the stereotype that this is the worst possible type of human even lower than a murderer or rapist whom will atleast be given second chances). My post might come off as a little extreme but it the truth of what is transpiring. Just read this article, read the sources, read the news there is this insidious attack it never stops and these people have infiltrated the core of our information as they fill the ranks of teachers/professors and media/journalists. blacklivesmatter, the idea the core of our country is "evil old white male cronies", the never ending plight of the "minority" at the cost of the majority. "

    I would like to know a single disadvantage that things like the black lives matter movement asking for representation really presents to a white man. It really makes me ashamed to be a part of online gaming culture. There isn't even an attempt here to listen to the non-white voice, it just gets shut down as "the vocal minority who seeks to control everyone's lives."

    I don't want this to get out of hand and hijack the thread, which I have arguably already done.  I have no problem with diversity and I think it can make a culture stronger.  My point is only that, not everything has to be made to reflect demographics.  I think elves, dwarves, humans, Tauran, plant people, undead, lizard people, dark elves, gnomes, halflings, rock people, flying people, water people, fish people is enough diversity in my video games.

    I will leave it at that...

    Although, I'll tell you what bothers me about Black lives Matter.  In my opinion All lives matter, and that's the goal. ALL Lives.

    I won't respond to this thread again.  Anyone who doesn't argue for the topic will be perceived as racist in some way.  I've dug that grave, so I'll see you in game.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963
    edited January 2016
    This should be removed..
    Post edited by Darkcrystal on
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,182
    Iselin said:
    Good article Som. It amazes me how many people don't get the simple fact that Western society is a white hetero male society (non-white regions of the world are very much the same minus the white part)  and have a hard time understanding why those who don't fit within that demographic feel the need to lobby for change.

    "...when a member from a minority group is required to speak out against their marginalization, and is subsequently told that they’re being overly sensitive or out of line."

    And our esteemed forum members in typical internet trollish fashion are quick to throw out "SJW" in a derogatory manner ... as if working toward social justice were a bad thing, lol)


     
    Yes, diversity is wonderful unless it's diversity of thought.  Then it is trollish.  LOL indeed.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963

    CIB3 said:

    Great, next time I will make as character a vegan feminist black gay orc shaman to make happy all activists!
    :)






    Soon they will make you be that or you will be in chains if they had it there way... I love how people that have white skin...Have to deal with so much nonsense and blame, for something that most have nothing to do with and have't for decades...... My family came here in 1958... and part Indian.. So I love when black people tell me how much my family had it good.. When the whites way back then..did more to us than anyone... Yet my family does not act like idiots..and want everything handed to them... Work hard, you will get it, Look we have Obama, as President, and many leaders of color..... and other race if it was such a huge problem, Obama would of never been our President...

    Another thing what does this have to do with MMORPG again, if I posted this I would of been banned...
  • IbjaIbja Member UncommonPosts: 25




    CIB3 said:


    Great, next time I will make as character a vegan feminist black gay orc shaman to make happy all activists!
    :)













    Soon they will make you be that or you will be in chains if they had it there way... I love how people that have white skin...Have to deal with so much nonsense and blame, for something that most have nothing to do with and have't for decades...... My family came here in 1958... and part Indian.. So I love when black people tell me how much my family had it good.. When the whites way back then..did more to us than anyone... Yet my family does not act like idiots..and want everything handed to them... Work hard, you will get it, Look we have Obama, as President, and many leaders of color..... and other race if it was such a huge problem, Obama would of never been our President...



    Another thing what does this have to do with MMORPG again, if I posted this I would of been banned...




    I'm curious if either of you could point out a comment in the article or from any of the posts above that specifically mentions forcing people to create characters of a certain type? Or explain how having diversity and representation in a game affects your individual character creation? Or explain how asking gaming communities to be more open to diversity is not "working hard" for something they want, exactly as you state people should do to get what they want?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,406
    Iselin said:
    Good article Som. It amazes me how many people don't get the simple fact that Western society is a white hetero male society (non-white regions of the world are very much the same minus the white part)  and have a hard time understanding why those who don't fit within that demographic feel the need to lobby for change.

    "...when a member from a minority group is required to speak out against their marginalization, and is subsequently told that they’re being overly sensitive or out of line."

    And our esteemed forum members in typical internet trollish fashion are quick to throw out "SJW" in a derogatory manner ... as if working toward social justice were a bad thing, lol)


     
    Yes, diversity is wonderful unless it's diversity of thought.  Then it is trollish.  LOL indeed.

    So you're saying working toward social justice is something to be mocked and laughed at, or at the very least not mentioned in polite gaming discussions? I don't understand your thought process. Maybe something other than this...

    Slapshot1188 said:
    Kiyoris said:
    Can we please keep SJW agenda driven articles out of MMORPG.


    Could not agree more.

    ... might help clarify it.

    Unless you're just saying this is your happy ostrich hidey-hole and you don't want real world issues mentioned... is that it?

    If so I guess you must be sick and tired of the guy you agreed with and his constant "censorship" gripe threads.
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