Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Minorities in Gaming - Theorizing Representation As Revolutionary - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
edited January 2016 in News & Features Discussion

imageMinorities in Gaming - Theorizing Representation As Revolutionary - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

The question of representation in video games is not a new one, and continues to spark all kinds of discussions that range in topic and intensity. On one end of the spectrum, there are individuals and groups who advocate for the most possible diversity in gaming. On the other, there are camps who posit that there is no issue of representation in video games, or that it’s not a worthy topic of discussion.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


«134567

Comments

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,401
    edited January 2016
    RPGs are a world where characters 3 feet high can jump over buildings or kill a giant. Men and women wearing robes deflect blows from a longsword. Old men knock down young muscled warriors with a stick. Skin color goes well beyond real life tones and includes pink, green, purple, etc. You can be a frog, a bear or a tiger. Heck you could even be whatever color John Boehner is if you want. So even if the author is correct that there are some examples of minority stereotypes, I think they are offset by a million counter-examples. RPGs are as diverse as people's imaginations.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • AngryElfAngryElf Member UncommonPosts: 162
    @Amathe
    Right, but I can't make a morbidly obese wood elf, and my brother's ogre doesn't wear glasses.
    I call foul
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    While how certain traits (could be size, politics, passions, piety, vanity, vices, etc) are portrayed in different media can affect our subconscious, every adult person is still very much responsible for what they choose to do.

    I can instinctively feel that certain traits are desirable, but as long as I don't choose to discriminate based on it, there is no issue.
  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    edited January 2016
    I stand on racial diversity as a way to tell new stories and bring more gameplay aspects into a game. As a person of color and a male at that I can say for sure that males of color who are forthright and outspoken are not seen as having good qualities but are instead seen as intimidating and as threats to the so called status qo, especially in the videogames industry.


    Its also a shame that often times games turn to whitewashing or complete reboots to rebrand a "minority" race as something else in mmorpgs and their sequels.

    Examples of this include the whitewashing of the Elonians and the Krytans from GW1 to GW2
    The Arabization and whitewashing of the Redguard of the TES series
    The complete washover of the Erudites of EQ2, basically then saying to the audience "Well you can make brown humans instead - which means nothing unique, nothing special about them, no lore and this insistence to take away culture to roll them under the the category of humanity being all the same, the washing away of all uniquness and the story aspects associated with them.


    1. I want to see more portrayals of different cultures in my mmorpgs. I don't care if its Mongolian, East Indian, Native American or Russian. The same tropes over and over again makes things boring and as an explorer type I get tired of seeing the same Euro-tropes over and over again.

    2. The complete dismissal of what new cultures and new lands in certain areas can bring to the mmo space as gameplay. For example - The African analogue lands offer better diamonds than anywhere else in the world thus causing everyone who wants diamonds to go there to find them as a crafting resource. The biggest bears are found in the Russian analogue area therefore as a crafter enabling me to get a higher fur yield if I wish to go hunt them down for my business. Housing in other lands offers choices that the standard area does not. Want an exotic home? Go across seas and find it. Want to learn that special type of Necromancy? Head to the Dark Jungles of the Africa analogue and find the natives that will teach it to you. Wish to learn how to make stronger swords using advanced asian mellalurgy that will teach you how to fold swords? Head over to the Asian analogue to find the greatest swordmaker there ever was ala Kill Bill.


    I don't see why this is hard for most developers to grasp and in the Age of Google where a simple five minute search can teach you everything you want to know there are no excuses, period. Diversity just to have it lends credence to the cries of those that shout SJW to the mountain tops. Diversity that actually ADDS to the game world, its depth, its gameplay systems and its uniqueness brings validity on why it should be there because then it benefits everyone, not just those like myself who wish to play non Euro characters that matter to the world story. Besides if you are building a world you should treat it as a WORLD and not one large continent of vanilla ice cream sameness. Use diversity to add to the story and expand the world. Use it to add to players telling better stories of their own. Was I the only one who enjoyed seeing Xena travel to the Asian areas of her world because it offered a new story? I hope not. "I remember the time when we hung out with Prince Akim in his marble palace in Sonhai."

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    same Euro-tropes over and over again.
    What does that even mean? Europe is composed of a vastly different cultures. Brittish, Swedish, Austrian, French and Belarusian culture have massive differences.
  • GilgamerGilgamer Member UncommonPosts: 24
    I think we can all agree that negative stereotypes are bad, but recognizing and defining what is negative isn't always so clear cut. A lot of "stereotypes" are routed in observation, though often exaggerated to hyperbolic proportions for comedic effect. Point-in-case, you can watch many ethnic minority comedians who will routinely poke fun at their own ethnicity for its idiosyncrasies, and get tons of laughs (from minority audiences) by taking jabs at such perceived "truisms".

    In the reverse, the absence of representation isn't always nefarious. Why must anyone feel slighted when, the protagonist or hero doesn't mirror the player. These are after all fictitious worlds, each with their own mythos, and need not represent every metric by which humans can self-identify. I think that diversity in games, reflects the diversity of those making and consuming them, as it should. It's a free-market and the dollar speaks the loudest, if products that do diversity "correctly" are rewarded with big sales, others will follow suit. Because of the lobby of LGBT community, I would argue that they are actually over represented on television.
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    This has no place in gaming. The races are what they create and are not supposed to include what "PC" bs we have in the real world.

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    edited January 2016


    same Euro-tropes over and over again.


    What does that even mean? Europe is composed of a vastly different cultures. Brittish, Swedish, Austrian, French and Belarusian culture have massive differences.



    Yes they do and yet we are still seeing the same inspirations being drawn from. Namely England with a smattering now of Italian.

    Isn't it time for something new? I'd even go for Greek or Russian, just something NEW

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • CalexCalex Member UncommonPosts: 99
    Games are art forms. The people who develop them should be considered artists and should be able to design what they are making as they see fit. If you do not like their art, do not support it. If you want a different style game, design it yourself.
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,385
    Maquiame said:


    same Euro-tropes over and over again.


    What does that even mean? Europe is composed of a vastly different cultures. Brittish, Swedish, Austrian, French and Belarusian culture have massive differences.



    Yes they do and yet we are still seeing the same inspirations being drawn from. Namely England with a smattering now of Italian.

    Isn't it time for something new? I'd even go for Greek or Russian, just something NEW
    funny too since I saw a female seeing mens in europe are too feminized, and european mens are more like woman now, so europe lack leadership and there is no way to defend thenselfs agisnt the refuges who are comming there.

    my take on this whole thing? don't care, too busy playing to care who the other player is sleeping with
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • sketocafesketocafe Member UncommonPosts: 950
    "Video games are similar to media like television and films in that they have the potential to reinforce or disrupt the stereotypes and narratives that exist in our social imaginaries."

    If you're going to make a claim like that, you probably want to back it up. All you did was state it and then take it as a given in the rest of that paragraph. I think it's far more likely that entertainment media has a negligible effect on us at most.

    Having a racially diverse cast of characters in games that actually focus on characterization and in-game culture and lore is mostly redundant because many of these games have entirely different species. Anything that can be said using different races can be said using dwarves, or elves like Dragon Age:Origins did.
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    This is truly disturbing biases agenda driven article, based on these biased group of wackos that thrive to feed their egos that they are "better" than me and you, they are more enlightened and more fair minded than me and you.

    The article itself and all of its sources are beyond biased which is ironic since that is what they reported seek to battle. For every scantily clad well figured women, there are just as man hulking broad shouldered over muscled men in some equally revealing garb (you can thank the lesbians and "unattractive females" for their biased attacks on the uber representations of hot women meanwhile non of us dudes even come close to the male avatars we see and play as.)

    For every white male hero saving the world, there is a white male evil ruler trying to take over the world but they will point that out and all of the stereotypes and subconscious thoughts it reinforces....but you will never hear any of that because it doesnt move the agenda of the liberal wackos who want to fill their egos by taking on the "plight" of the minorities.

    We live in very disturbing times, where whites specifically males are under non stop assault from with in their own "homelands" and places of origin (america the slight exception being whites were not indigenous but the country was created by caucasians so it does count) . No other place in the WORLD does this occur where the indigenous race to that country is being attacked, forced to accept races from other countries and to then surrender their entire culture in lieu of these "minority immigrants". Don't believe me? goto china, any country in africa sans south africa, india, etc... and see what type of pressure they have to absorb "immigrants" from other areas of the world, and then observe any social/political pressures and policies to accommodate said immigrants. Look to find anything remotely resembling this type of article good luck.

    It is truly disturbing the amount of blatant biases and discrimination against white people and white males which are OPENLY shoved down your throats by this vocal minority who seeks to control everyone's lives. Maybe even worse is the intimidation and bullying they use to suppress anyone who might oppose their views. You will instantly be labelled as a racist, sexist bigot (which they have created the stereotype that this is the worst possible type of human even lower than a murderer or rapist whom will atleast be given second chances). My post might come off as a little extreme but it the truth of what is transpiring. Just read this article, read the sources, read the news there is this insidious attack it never stops and these people have infiltrated the core of our information as they fill the ranks of teachers/professors and media/journalists. blacklivesmatter, the idea the core of our country is "evil old white male cronies", the never ending plight of the "minority" at the cost of the majority.

    It has now seeped into gaming where you are being told you are a racist, and a sexist you just didn't know it! Those curvaceous female representations in your game are SEXIST (cause the males are not equally masculine to the extreme), you are a PERVERT because of those females in scantily clad outfits (there are no massive dude running around in loin clothes and all but the bare armor's) , you are a racist because well the games predominantly embrace YOUR OWN CULTURE (the fact most games allow you to customize your avatar to your liking doesnt matter, nor does the fact all of the antagonists are white men either because you know those stereotypes are real white men are evil controllers of the world).

    I could go on and on to explain all of the evils and flat out lies and inaccuracies of this article and it's ilk. the message is this though, it is okay to be white, it is okay to be a man, it is okay to enjoy and appreciate the larger than life representations of the human race these games offer us, it is okay to enjoy and be proud of YOUR WHITE HERITAGE and all of the amazing things it has done for mankind, it doesnt make you a racist, you do not need to become submissive to other races and immigrants, this doesnt make you some white supremacist evil rich cronie trying to suppress and take the life blood of every other human on the planet. We can embrace our own culture, we can enjoy the image of beautiful people without prejudicing those who are not of our culture and race or less than perfection... I mean they tell you everyone else can BUT YOU the white male, you can do it also, do not be brain washed by these agenda driven ego maniacs and their mental disorders (you understand 99% of the time behind every article damning the "over sexualising of women in video games" is an unattractive lesbian who hates beautiful women and men for shunning her in her youth? They are the ones filled with hate and this is how they lash out). The state of normal is to appreciate and strive for these same attributes they try to demonize, these attributes are that of a healthy human that is why we are attracted to them.

    You need to stand up for yourselves now because noone else will, you know it you see it all around you the attacks it never ends, it has no limits. The time is now to take a stand be confident and stand up for yourself.


    TL DR; this article is utter and epic evil along with all of the manipulative and agenda driven "resources" it pulls from to fabricate a social science that is a flat out lie and goes against the core of humanity claiming human nature is "wrong" because some schmuck with a pencil arbitrarily decided it was".
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305

    Maquiame said:





    same Euro-tropes over and over again.





    What does that even mean? Europe is composed of a vastly different cultures. Brittish, Swedish, Austrian, French and Belarusian culture have massive differences.






    Yes they do and yet we are still seeing the same inspirations being drawn from. Namely England with a smattering now of Italian.



    Isn't it time for something new?


    I'd even go for Greek or Russian, just something NEW



    Open your eyes new is there if you want it, better yet why don't you create it. A quick google search will provide you with a number of games based off greek and russian culture.
  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 321
    I always wanted to be like my protagonists. Never wanted the protagonists to be like me. Guess that's why I never understood this being an issue. Pretty sure not being a 4 foot wide, 4 foot tall bearded demihuman never made it hard to find something in common with Bruenor.

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 321
    Oh man, just looked at the "articles" sourced. Hahhahaha.

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    edited January 2016
    It’s common knowledge, for example, that women are paid around seventy cents to the dollar compared to men

    Not sure how this is even remotely related to MMO, you wrote the article, but it's not even correct. Not by a long shot.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/04/09/president-obamas-persistent-77-cent-claim-on-the-wage-gap-gets-a-new-pinocchio-rating/
  • IbjaIbja Member UncommonPosts: 25


    It’s common knowledge, for example, that women are paid around seventy cents to the dollar compared to men



    Not sure how this is even remotely related to MMO, you wrote the article, but it's not even correct. Not by a long shot.




    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/04/09/president-obamas-persistent-77-cent-claim-on-the-wage-gap-gets-a-new-pinocchio-rating/



    This was my favorite, terrible quote from this article you posted:

    "Unless women stop getting married and having children, and start abandoning careers in childhood education for naval architecture, this huge gap in wages will almost certainly persist. "

    And if you read the article, it's really not off "by a long shot." 77 cents is even correct unless, like this article, you consider that women who are expected by societal pressure to be the main caregivers for children and are discriminated against in many high paying STEM fields, deserve to make less money.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Amathe said:
    RPGs are a world where characters 3 feet high can jump over buildings or kill a giant. Men and women wearing robes deflect blows from a longsword. Old men knock down young muscled warriors with a stick. Skin color goes well beyond real life tones and includes pink, green, purple, etc. You can be a frog, a bear or a tiger. Heck you could even be whatever color John Boehner is if you want. So even if the author is correct that there are some examples of minority stereotypes, I think they are offset by a million counter-examples. RPGs are as diverse as people's imaginations.

    I believe John Boener's color is "Weekend Bender Orange".

    I want to play an Insect species.  How about oozes, slimes or lawyers.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    edited January 2016

    77 cents is even correct


    It's not correct, that's why the Washington Post, gave it 2 pinnochio ratings.

    It doesn't take into account how long you work, how many extra hours you work, which jobs you do.

    Do you believe a man working on an oil rig doing incredibly dangerous jobs should not be allowed to earn more than women in a child care setting?

    The top 10 most dangerous jobs are dominated by male professions. They should earn more, and I'm glad they do, because no one else will do those jobs.

    Petroleum Engineering is 87% male. It is also one of the most dangerous and lonely jobs in the world.

    And it doesn't take into account recent trends either. Women under 30 are now earning more in Europe than men: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds
  • unfilteredJWunfilteredJW Member UncommonPosts: 321

    77 cents is even correct


    It's not correct, that's why the Washington Post, gave it 2 pinnochio ratings.

    It doesn't take into account how long you work, how many extra hours you work, which jobs you do.

    Do you believe a man working on an oil rig doing incredibly dangerous jobs should not be allowed to earn more than a women in a child care setting?

    The top 10 most dangerous jobs are dominated by male professions. They should earn more, and I'm glad they do, because no one else will.

    And it doesn't take into account recent trends either. Women under 30 are now earning more in Europe than men: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds
    Yeah, it's stat manipulation and doesn't take into account a TON of facts. The problem was you linked to the post :P

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437

    Yeah, it's stat manipulation and doesn't take into account a TON of facts. The problem was you linked to the post :P


    Nod, on purpose. I didn't want anyone accusing me of linking to a source on the political right, which would just be used as ammo against me.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,203
    This whole topic/conversation is a joke and really demonstrates whats wrong with today's society.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • IbjaIbja Member UncommonPosts: 25




    77 cents is even correct





    It's not correct, that's why the Washington Post, gave it 2 pinnochio ratings.





    It doesn't take into account how long you work, how many extra hours you work, which jobs you do.






    Do you believe a man working on an oil rig doing incredibly dangerous jobs should not be allowed to earn more than a women in a child care setting?




    The top 10 most dangerous jobs are dominated by male professions. They should earn more, and I'm glad they do.



    And it doesn't take into account recent trends either. Women under 30 are now earning more in Europe than men even: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds



    Here is another quote from the article you posted:

    "The president is relying on a simple calculation from the Census Bureau: a ratio of the difference between women’s median earnings and men’s median earnings. (The median is the middle value, with an equal number of full-time workers earning more and earning less.) That leaves a pay gap of 23 cents."

    They go on to say that the wage gap is less if you look at hourly and weekly wages, which are typically lower paying jobs. It also goes on to mention that the wage gap goes UP if you look at things like part time workers. The article then points out, for the first of several times in their article, that if women would just STOP GETTING MARRIED!!!!! they would make as much as men do. (I guess we should ignore the fact that it makes no mention of marriage affecting the income of a man, because it apparently doesn't).

    What I am trying to point out is that the 77 statistic is not necessarily an absolute number for the difference in pay, but it points out the inconsistencies in earning potential between men and women that highlight some very relevant problems that create a wage gap (women getting married, women working in lower paying fields, or even the willingness of the higher paying fields to consider women for employment). If you simply say, "Yeah, but if all those problems were just solved, the wage gap drops significantly" then what's the point? You are ignoring reality.

    And I don't know anything about social politics in Europe or how that is relevant to anything regarding the wage gap in the U.S.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967


    It’s common knowledge, for example, that women are paid around seventy cents to the dollar compared to men



    Not sure how this is even remotely related to MMO, you wrote the article, but it's not even correct. Not by a long shot.




    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/04/09/president-obamas-persistent-77-cent-claim-on-the-wage-gap-gets-a-new-pinocchio-rating/



    There are a lot of jobs out there with set salaries, male or female doesn't matter.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited January 2016
    Can we please keep SJW agenda driven articles out of MMORPG.

    Besides the fact that your "facts" are all wrong, if a regular user had posted this in the forum, the post would have been removed by a mod.
This discussion has been closed.