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Free Speech Denied, SC moving to become a 1984 universe?

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,609
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:

    Wow. It is amazing what gamers will be willing to accept. You would have done well as a KGB agent in Soviet Russia. I can't believe anyone is actually defending this practice. You should not be banned from official forums because of something you say on a 3rd party forum. This is unprecedented for a reason, it is insane.
    I think it's more amazing that people have invested actual energy into this and continue to post and whine and cry and complain.

    Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.

    The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.

    No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.

    Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.

    That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.

    I know, man. I can't stand it when people pipe up when I try to beat and mug people on the El train. Why don't they mind their own business? It's like they're a bunch of adolescent, wanna-be superheroes warning old folks not to come near me. I can't stand those jerks saying stupid things about my past behavior and apparent threat. Everyone should have their lips stapled and let me do what I like to do, take peoples' money.
    The first thing is that if people gave money in a crowd funding endeavor they need to be clear about what they are doing and the risks.

    If they don't understand what they are doing and what is happening to their money and that there are no guarantees then they shouldn't be giving money. Spend it elsewhere, invest in something real.

    Do I understand if someone is upset because they feel they have thrown away their money? Partially. I get the emotion but I'm a firm believer in accepting your behavior, mistakes and all.

    If I give my money to an endeavor and I know their are risks and the endeavor doesn't turn out how I want then that's unfortunate but that's on me.

    But am I going to endlessly complain on forums ad infinitum? No, lesson learned and I move on. done and done and hopefully I've learned a valuable lesson.
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Sovrath said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:

    Wow. It is amazing what gamers will be willing to accept. You would have done well as a KGB agent in Soviet Russia. I can't believe anyone is actually defending this practice. You should not be banned from official forums because of something you say on a 3rd party forum. This is unprecedented for a reason, it is insane.
    I think it's more amazing that people have invested actual energy into this and continue to post and whine and cry and complain.

    Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.

    The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.

    No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.

    Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.

    That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.

    I know, man. I can't stand it when people pipe up when I try to beat and mug people on the El train. Why don't they mind their own business? It's like they're a bunch of adolescent, wanna-be superheroes warning old folks not to come near me. I can't stand those jerks saying stupid things about my past behavior and apparent threat. Everyone should have their lips stapled and let me do what I like to do, take peoples' money.
    The first thing is that if people gave money in a crowd funding endeavor they need to be clear about what they are doing and the risks.

    If they don't understand what they are doing and what is happening to their money and that there are no guarantees then they shouldn't be giving money. Spend it elsewhere, invest in something real.

    Do I understand if someone is upset because they feel they have thrown away their money? Partially. I get the emotion but I'm a firm believer in accepting your behavior, mistakes and all.

    If I give my money to an endeavor and I know their are risks and the endeavor doesn't turn out how I want then that's unfortunate but that's on me.

    But am I going to endlessly complain on forums ad infinitum? No, lesson learned and I move on. done and done and hopefully I've learned a valuable lesson.
    Are they still selling 250usd spaceships? Maybe they can close shop until they at least have a beta build, or hey, even an alpha build, not a pre-alpha demo?
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,190
    vorpal28 said:
    Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.

    That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no

    Not if you keep posting a lot of thrash and/or make threats against the store/customers. Then i would also ban you from my store. You can´t after all cause much more damage. Same goes if i find out that you are part of a group who usually goes in to the store and move stuff around, harass customers and piss in the flowerpots at the gardening section just for "fun". Then i would also say.. Sorry you are not welcome. 

    Simple utilitarianism... The good will of the majority outweighs the of the individual.  

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,609
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Adjuvant1 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:

    Wow. It is amazing what gamers will be willing to accept. You would have done well as a KGB agent in Soviet Russia. I can't believe anyone is actually defending this practice. You should not be banned from official forums because of something you say on a 3rd party forum. This is unprecedented for a reason, it is insane.
    I think it's more amazing that people have invested actual energy into this and continue to post and whine and cry and complain.

    Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.

    The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.

    No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.

    Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.

    That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.

    I know, man. I can't stand it when people pipe up when I try to beat and mug people on the El train. Why don't they mind their own business? It's like they're a bunch of adolescent, wanna-be superheroes warning old folks not to come near me. I can't stand those jerks saying stupid things about my past behavior and apparent threat. Everyone should have their lips stapled and let me do what I like to do, take peoples' money.
    The first thing is that if people gave money in a crowd funding endeavor they need to be clear about what they are doing and the risks.

    If they don't understand what they are doing and what is happening to their money and that there are no guarantees then they shouldn't be giving money. Spend it elsewhere, invest in something real.

    Do I understand if someone is upset because they feel they have thrown away their money? Partially. I get the emotion but I'm a firm believer in accepting your behavior, mistakes and all.

    If I give my money to an endeavor and I know their are risks and the endeavor doesn't turn out how I want then that's unfortunate but that's on me.

    But am I going to endlessly complain on forums ad infinitum? No, lesson learned and I move on. done and done and hopefully I've learned a valuable lesson.
    Are they still selling 250usd spaceships? Maybe they can close shop until they at least have a beta build, or hey, even an alpha build, not a pre-alpha demo?
    They can "sell" anything they want.

    But people need to do some research and say "hey, the game isn't even released yet, I'm NOT going to give them money until I see something worth my attention".

    People have to grow up and take some responsibility. If a company is doing something that seems smarmy then don't give them money. Don't. No money shall people give. 

    I swear, people make their own hells.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    tawess said:
    vorpal28 said:
    Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.

    That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no

    Not if you keep posting a lot of thrash and/or make threats against the store/customers. Then i would also ban you from my store. You can´t after all cause much more damage. Same goes if i find out that you are part of a group who usually goes in to the store and move stuff around, harass customers and piss in the flowerpots at the gardening section just for "fun". Then i would also say.. Sorry you are not welcome. 

    Simple utilitarianism... The good will of the majority outweighs the of the individual.  
    What if it's a small town and there's one grocery store unless you drive 2 hours one way and you complain to your buddy about the horrible prices while you are out walking around town and the store manager overhears you? Does he have the right to ban you from the store? Your example is worst case and yes SC is a game and you don't need to visit it to live.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Back on topic.

    SC took action to ban someone on their forum based on what they said on another forum.

    No matter how yo look at it, SC moderated the ability to comment as a punishment for a comment on another site.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,609
    Kefo said:
    tawess said:
    vorpal28 said:
    Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.

    That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no

    Not if you keep posting a lot of thrash and/or make threats against the store/customers. Then i would also ban you from my store. You can´t after all cause much more damage. Same goes if i find out that you are part of a group who usually goes in to the store and move stuff around, harass customers and piss in the flowerpots at the gardening section just for "fun". Then i would also say.. Sorry you are not welcome. 

    Simple utilitarianism... The good will of the majority outweighs the of the individual.  
    What if it's a small town and there's one grocery store unless you drive 2 hours one way and you complain to your buddy about the horrible prices while you are out walking around town and the store manager overhears you? Does he have the right to ban you from the store? Your example is worst case and yes SC is a game and you don't need to visit it to live.
    You probably shouldn't use examples unless you really have thought them through.  You essentially thought that was ridiculous therefore it couldn 't possibly be true. 

    but yes a store owner can ban you from coming into the store for most any reason as it is private property. What he/she can't do is ban you if you fall under a class of protective person and that usually means race or religion or sexual persuasion.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Sovrath said:
    Kefo said:
    tawess said:
    vorpal28 said:
    Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.

    That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no

    Not if you keep posting a lot of thrash and/or make threats against the store/customers. Then i would also ban you from my store. You can´t after all cause much more damage. Same goes if i find out that you are part of a group who usually goes in to the store and move stuff around, harass customers and piss in the flowerpots at the gardening section just for "fun". Then i would also say.. Sorry you are not welcome. 

    Simple utilitarianism... The good will of the majority outweighs the of the individual.  
    What if it's a small town and there's one grocery store unless you drive 2 hours one way and you complain to your buddy about the horrible prices while you are out walking around town and the store manager overhears you? Does he have the right to ban you from the store? Your example is worst case and yes SC is a game and you don't need to visit it to live.
    You probably shouldn't use examples unless you really have thought them through.  You essentially thought that was ridiculous therefore it couldn 't possibly be true. 

    but yes a store owner can ban you from coming into the store for most any reason as it is private property. What he/she can't do is ban you if you fall under a class of protective person and that usually means race or religion or sexual persuasion.

    You knew what I was talking about so how about we cut out the crap?
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,609
    edited January 2016
    Kefo said:
    Sovrath said:
    Kefo said:
    tawess said:
    vorpal28 said:
    Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.

    That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no

    Not if you keep posting a lot of thrash and/or make threats against the store/customers. Then i would also ban you from my store. You can´t after all cause much more damage. Same goes if i find out that you are part of a group who usually goes in to the store and move stuff around, harass customers and piss in the flowerpots at the gardening section just for "fun". Then i would also say.. Sorry you are not welcome. 

    Simple utilitarianism... The good will of the majority outweighs the of the individual.  
    What if it's a small town and there's one grocery store unless you drive 2 hours one way and you complain to your buddy about the horrible prices while you are out walking around town and the store manager overhears you? Does he have the right to ban you from the store? Your example is worst case and yes SC is a game and you don't need to visit it to live.
    You probably shouldn't use examples unless you really have thought them through.  You essentially thought that was ridiculous therefore it couldn 't possibly be true. 

    but yes a store owner can ban you from coming into the store for most any reason as it is private property. What he/she can't do is ban you if you fall under a class of protective person and that usually means race or religion or sexual persuasion.

    You knew what I was talking about so how about we cut out the crap?
    Hey, you gave an example and then asked "does he have the right to ban you from the store" and yes he has the right to ban you from the store for any reason other than what I said. 

    In your example he can ban you if he wants. So "what you were talking about" was incorrect. Maybe just own up to it instead of being hostile.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Sovrath said:
    Kefo said:
    Sovrath said:
    Kefo said:
    tawess said:
    vorpal28 said:
    Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.

    That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no

    Not if you keep posting a lot of thrash and/or make threats against the store/customers. Then i would also ban you from my store. You can´t after all cause much more damage. Same goes if i find out that you are part of a group who usually goes in to the store and move stuff around, harass customers and piss in the flowerpots at the gardening section just for "fun". Then i would also say.. Sorry you are not welcome. 

    Simple utilitarianism... The good will of the majority outweighs the of the individual.  
    What if it's a small town and there's one grocery store unless you drive 2 hours one way and you complain to your buddy about the horrible prices while you are out walking around town and the store manager overhears you? Does he have the right to ban you from the store? Your example is worst case and yes SC is a game and you don't need to visit it to live.
    You probably shouldn't use examples unless you really have thought them through.  You essentially thought that was ridiculous therefore it couldn 't possibly be true. 

    but yes a store owner can ban you from coming into the store for most any reason as it is private property. What he/she can't do is ban you if you fall under a class of protective person and that usually means race or religion or sexual persuasion.

    You knew what I was talking about so how about we cut out the crap?
    Hey, you gave an example and then asked "does he have the right to ban you from the store" and yes he has the right to ban you from the store for any reason other than what I said. 

    In your example he can ban you if he wants. So "what you were talking about" was incorrect. Maybe just won up to it instead of being hostile.

    I will freely admit it was a poor example.

    Let me re-phrase it then for you. You are walking down the street with your buddy and a community moderator hears you say "I really think SC is going down the crapper" and he happens to recognize your forum picture since its your face you posted.


    Do you think that mod should ban you for something you said to someone in the street? I know they can ban you, they can ban you for eating cereal that day if they felt like it but should they?
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,950
    Why do people insist they have the Freedom of speech to post on other people's media? The idea is ridiculous. You have freedom of speech to go and start your own blog on the web. What about the rights of the people who own the media?

    Get a clue.....You don't own the board, so you don't own the right!
    There are people, such as myself, that consider freedom of speech to be a virtue even though it is not a right enforced by the government in every aspect of society. It makes sense that people get upset when people reduce the freedom of speech regardless of whether or not it was their right to begin with.
    You do have free speech. You don't have freedom from consequences of that speech. People that spout this really need to study what freedom of speech entails, what it doesn't, and where personal responsibility comes in.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,950
    Ok after reading what @Erillion suggested it seems this guys is a severely toxic person, i think his ban from forums is a good decision.

    But i will say it again : stalking customers on social media or online forums to see if they are trash talking your product is just wrong. Sony and capcom may be doing it but that doesn't mean Cloud Imperium should do it too.
    Seems more like they are hanging out in the corners of social media where the rest of the techies, nerds, geeks, and gamers hang out. I come across some crazy stuff on reddit and other forums and sometimes I find a link between accounts. It doesn't take much to notice really loud people like that.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,950
    Kefo said:
    tawess said:
    vorpal28 said:
    Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.

    That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no

    Not if you keep posting a lot of thrash and/or make threats against the store/customers. Then i would also ban you from my store. You can´t after all cause much more damage. Same goes if i find out that you are part of a group who usually goes in to the store and move stuff around, harass customers and piss in the flowerpots at the gardening section just for "fun". Then i would also say.. Sorry you are not welcome. 

    Simple utilitarianism... The good will of the majority outweighs the of the individual.  
    What if it's a small town and there's one grocery store unless you drive 2 hours one way and you complain to your buddy about the horrible prices while you are out walking around town and the store manager overhears you? Does he have the right to ban you from the store? Your example is worst case and yes SC is a game and you don't need to visit it to live.
    I live in a town with 1000 people. There is one real grocery store. There is a liquor store, 2 Mexican restaurants, 2 bars, a couple mechanics, 2 hair cutters, and a saw shop. That's about it. The point? Don't shit in your own backyard.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,609
    Kefo said:


    I will freely admit it was a poor example.

    Let me re-phrase it then for you. You are walking down the street with your buddy and a community moderator hears you say "I really think SC is going down the crapper" and he happens to recognize your forum picture since its your face you posted.


    Do you think that mod should ban you for something you said to someone in the street? I know they can ban you, they can ban you for eating cereal that day if they felt like it but should they?
    Do I think they "should" ban you? No. I know if I had a customer that was bad talking my company I would do what it took to at least make that customer think better of my company. Then again, I work at a great company that is very customer-centric and we are "about" customer service.

    However, do I think the business should legally be kept from banning someone? No. I'm all for a company banning a person from their premises if they have a "good" reason or for whatever reason if they just don't want that person's business. So yeah, it's silly but if some company didn't want to do business with a person they should have the right to say no.

    I admit, that is a slippery slope because I don't believe a person should be banned for race, or sexual persuasion. I'm sure we have seen news on companies trying to say "no" to gay customers.

    I suppose it's just as easy for a company to say "they looked at me funny" and therefore "we don't serve them anymore".

    Then again, I'm of the thought that if a business doesn't want my business then I'll go somewhere else. No skin off my nose. 
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Sovrath said:
    Kefo said:


    I will freely admit it was a poor example.

    Let me re-phrase it then for you. You are walking down the street with your buddy and a community moderator hears you say "I really think SC is going down the crapper" and he happens to recognize your forum picture since its your face you posted.


    Do you think that mod should ban you for something you said to someone in the street? I know they can ban you, they can ban you for eating cereal that day if they felt like it but should they?
    Do I think they "should" ban you? No. I know if I had a customer that was bad talking my company I would do what it took to at least make that customer think better of my company. Then again, I work at a great company that is very customer-centric and we are "about" customer service.

    However, do I think the business should legally be kept from banning someone? No. I'm all for a company banning a person from their premises if they have a "good" reason or for whatever reason if they just don't want that person's business. So yeah, it's silly but if some company didn't want to do business with a person they should have the right to say no.

    I admit, that is a slippery slope because I don't believe a person should be banned for race, or sexual persuasion. I'm sure we have seen news on companies trying to say "no" to gay customers.

    I suppose it's just as easy for a company to say "they looked at me funny" and therefore "we don't serve them anymore".

    Then again, I'm of the thought that if a business doesn't want my business then I'll go somewhere else. No skin off my nose. 
    Well we can both agree that any business can do whatever they please(within reason), or in this specific case, CIG ban you from their forums for whatever reason. I still think what CIG did if true is a shitty practice but clearly there are people who are quite fine with it....just don't get caught saying something bad or you might find your access revoked lol
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,408
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    ... the article on the first page is that he was banned for associating with Derek Smart which is the same as corporate espionage. ....
    THIS sentence in the article >>>> Apparently, Beer was banned for having discussions with developer Derek Smart, .... >>> is a personal opinion of the author of the article and not in line with known facts (see CIG's official answer to the author of the article : "Just to reiterate…this individual was blocked for behavior on our site.").


    Have fun
    Well if you want to believe the party line...

    But this email from Patrick Probst at CIG seems to tell a different tale:

    “I’m honestly a little surprised that you are not aware of what caused your permaban. I am not prepared (nor do I think it is a good idea) to discuss this in great detail but the final straw which caused the permanent exclusion from the forums was your collusion with one Derek Smart Esq.

     “You seemingly cooperated with him to spread secret information gained by questionable means. This could be construed as aiding and abetting corporate espionage”



    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    *Hangs out in bar*

    "Aye man that Star Citizen game is the biggest scam this side of the earth bro. I can't believe I bought one of those POS ships. Oh by the way my name is [insert name]."

    *CIG employee hangs out in this particular bar to gauge player sentiment*

    "We regret to inform you, your account has been banned for toxic behavior"

    XD. Totally petty classless POS dick move by the company who is way too in the weeds, but has nothing to do with freedom of speech. They didn't violate anyones right to speak. What they did do is treat the guy like the child he is and take away his toy beause they know deep down he still wants it.

    You guys have to learn how to tell these developers/publishers to f#%k off and WALK AWAY like adults. When you're a child you can get punished and maniplulated like one. 
    Actively punishing a person for what they say is very much an active attempt to reduce the freedom any person has when it comes to what they say. A such act opposes the idea of freedom of speech. You truly dont want freedom of speech if you are going to punish people when they say things you strongly dislike.
    If you are in my house talking badly about me and my family and I punch you in the face and throw you out, then I hear about you talking badly about me in a bar down the street and I ban you from my property that's not a violation of your freedom of speech. MY HOUSE. MY RULES. This might be the most ridiculous thing I've read on MMORPG (since yesterday... but yeah).
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    edited January 2016
    Erillion said:
    Let's be clear here that the ban is from the forums, not the game.

    The guy also was banned for what he did on the RSI forums not the SA forums.  From what I read he started posting there AFTER he was banned on the RSI forums. 
    Yep - he can still play the game. But not post in the official forums for the next years.

    He was banned for his rants on the RSI forums. For the third official offense  (he whines about him being allowed to have five opportunities to post shit before he should be permabanned). He posted a lot more rants than those three ... or five.

    He posted on reddit/SC or somethingawful.com well before he was banned on the RSI forum. The reddit rant post I linked was over a year ago. On somethingawful .. many more years (2008 or earlier, usually about EVE Online).


    Have fun
    This is of course not true. But that is nothing new, they always have to change it to make CR and his wife look good. But you really should read the Sandi rant it is priceless!

    http://imgur.com/a/BIlWu

    The emails have been verified as true and indeed did happen.


    Also just wanted to throw in by CIG banning this person from saying something on a different fan site is wrong in so many ways. But it also shows how CR and SC are hurting for money to attempt to shut anyone up no matter what site they say it on.

    Heck I have been threatened on being sued because of things I have said against SC. It really is funny how far some of these people will go.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Iselin said:

    But this email from Patrick Probst at CIG seems to tell a different tale:

    “I’m honestly a little surprised that you are not aware of what caused your permaban. I am not prepared (nor do I think it is a good idea) to discuss this in great detail but the final straw which caused the permanent exclusion from the forums was your collusion with one Derek Smart Esq.

     “You seemingly cooperated with him to spread secret information gained by questionable means. This could be construed as aiding and abetting corporate espionage”


    I have read this too, following the provided links. This and all the rest of the material including the article.

    All it tells me is that it was "the final straw" .... the reason why such a person was permabanned on the official forums already after three violations instead of the usual five violations (and the following moderator warnings).

    Again ...
    ban for MULTIPLE violations on the official (!) CIG  forum.  And NOT banned from SC itself, only forums.

    NOT a ban for "free speech" in other channels outside the direct control of CIG.


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Erillion said:
    Iselin said:

    But this email from Patrick Probst at CIG seems to tell a different tale:

    “I’m honestly a little surprised that you are not aware of what caused your permaban. I am not prepared (nor do I think it is a good idea) to discuss this in great detail but the final straw which caused the permanent exclusion from the forums was your collusion with one Derek Smart Esq.

     “You seemingly cooperated with him to spread secret information gained by questionable means. This could be construed as aiding and abetting corporate espionage”


    I have read this too, following the provided links. This and all the rest of the material including the article.

    All it tells me is that it was "the final straw" .... the reason why such a person was permabanned on the official forums already after three violations instead of the usual five violations (and the following moderator warnings).

    Again ...
    ban for MULTIPLE violations on the official (!) CIG  forum.  And NOT banned from SC itself, only forums.

    NOT a ban for "free speech" in other channels outside the direct control of CIG.


    Have fun

    You're trying to dance around the point. The final straw was still for something he did that wasn't on the CIG forums. I'm not arguing that he was banned cause like I have said CIG can do what they want with their own forums but I am arguing why he was banned. It was a piss poor reason and it makes you wonder what else they might get ban happy on.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Kefo said:

    You're trying to dance around the point. The final straw was still for something he did that wasn't on the CIG forums.
    All I see is CIG knowing what to expect from other games (especially EVE Online) and trying to keep their house as clean as possible. Won't work 100 %, but i appreciate the effort.


    Have fun
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,408
    Erillion said:
    Iselin said:

    But this email from Patrick Probst at CIG seems to tell a different tale:

    “I’m honestly a little surprised that you are not aware of what caused your permaban. I am not prepared (nor do I think it is a good idea) to discuss this in great detail but the final straw which caused the permanent exclusion from the forums was your collusion with one Derek Smart Esq.

     “You seemingly cooperated with him to spread secret information gained by questionable means. This could be construed as aiding and abetting corporate espionage”


    I have read this too, following the provided links. This and all the rest of the material including the article.

    All it tells me is that it was "the final straw" .... the reason why such a person was permabanned on the official forums already after three violations instead of the usual five violations (and the following moderator warnings).

    Again ...
    ban for MULTIPLE violations on the official (!) CIG  forum.  And NOT banned from SC itself, only forums.

    NOT a ban for "free speech" in other channels outside the direct control of CIG.


    Have fun
    Well I never said anything about "free speech." That was the OP saying it, presumably for effect... although for me and most other people in these forums those types of exaggerations usually have the opposite effect. Nor do I care whether the guy is a goon or not. Those are all red herrings I'll leave for people who enjoy fighting about inconsequential shit to fight about.

    And whether it was the final straw or the first straw doesn't really concern me. The fact that he was only banned from the forums and not the game for "corporate espionage" however I find peculiar in the extreme.

    But be that as it may... I have worked for many years in high pressure environments negotiating contracts and doing many other things where I've learned that in business you have to keep your inner voice where it belongs.

    The "...collusion with one Derek Smart Esq." and "...aiding and abetting corporate espionage." bits? Just another example of how expressing your inner voice makes one look foolish and does more harm than good. Before that all we had were some people with a bone to pick against CIG making noise. After that? We have a confirmation by a CIG employee that indeed, off forum conduct will be characterized in an exaggerated manner and used to apply discipline within the forum.

    Come to think of it... the "corporate espionage" bit is right up there with "free speech" and "1984" in their utter counterproductive uselessness.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Iselin said:
    Come to think of it... the "corporate espionage" bit is right up there with "free speech" and "1984" in their utter counterproductive uselessness.
    We are in agreement here.


    Have fun
  • feroshusferoshus Member UncommonPosts: 164
    They can ban for whatever they want, period. There's no proof that any of those emails or texts weren't completely fabricated, as pointed out in the INN counter-article. Therefore there's no proof that the bans weren't directly related to the user's conduct on the official forums. Story over. You guys have trouble reading or what?

    Making up long, nonsensical, hypothetical situations to validate or invalidate actions that may or may not have happened is just....sad. Let. It. Go. 
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    feroshus said:
    They can ban for whatever they want, period. There's no proof that any of those emails or texts weren't completely fabricated, as pointed out in the INN counter-article. Therefore there's no proof that the bans weren't directly related to the user's conduct on the official forums. Story over. You guys have trouble reading or what?

    Making up long, nonsensical, hypothetical situations to validate or invalidate actions that may or may not have happened is just....sad. Let. It. Go. 
    Also no proof the INN quotes are real either. When asked about it in the comments section they ignore the question. Seems you might have some trouble reading.

    If you don't like our arguing about star citizen feel free to not visit this section of the forums. 
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