Freedom of speech = Freedom to say whatever you want to. It does not mean you are free from the consequences of your actions.
If you are actively punishing people for what they say, then you are attempting to reduce their freedom of speech. I.e. you are really against freedom of speech.
You can post whatever the hell you want. And you will face the consequences of posting something the owners of the forum don't approve of. Nothing is being limited at all. Yes they are punishing people because that is the CONSEQUENCE of their action. But that's how life works. Your actions have consequences regardless if you like them or not.
Is blocking of telemarketers going against freedom of speech?
In the case of telemarketers: they offered a service, you declined. That's not punishing. Punishing would be to as a consequence revoke their membership in a club in which both of you participate.
3 years development for a game of this scope....wait 2 more years and if noting is released THEN start moanling like little bitches!!!
I think thats a different issue. This thread is not about when the game releases or them breaking their promise on when people would be playing this game. Whats done here break down to this.
What if every game company actively started monitoring this site to ban people from bashing their games on this forum? How would we feel about that? Would that type of action be acceptable? I think not. IMO, this is bad business. I was leery about this company to start, this action has only made me more so.
Apparently you didn't read it well. The article is about David Maddaluno, mentions "Beer" later, and you're out in left field arguing what "Beer" did. I'm not even a SC contributor, I'm just very interested in the game, and "I" know who "Beer" is.
Your point ?
More than one person was banned for what they did multiple times
on the OFFICIAL Star Citizen board. Some sooner than others, which in my
opinion was perfectly appropriate and which was absolutely within the
rights of the forum moderators.
David Maddaluno specifically was banned for activity on the OFFICIAL Star Citizen media channels, as the article itself states: "Maddaluno was permanently banned on October 10th, 2015 during the CitCon live-stream, .."..." ....CIG handed out his ban for being “toxic” ..."
Neither of those two was specifically banned for acting out their freedom of speech on other media - both were banned for being toxic on the OFFICIAL CIG media channels ! They are just ranting about getting slapped on their fingers ... and some others listen to them and talk about it from their personal point of view (like the author of the article).
Have fun
You really have to start reading links man. Its clear in the link of the email exchange that Beer was in fact banned for his actions out side the RSI forums.
I think it is pretty obvious that SC has just become a PR management project more than it is a game development company. They have invested most of their time and energy in fund raising and hype generating PR. Now they have shifted more to damage control and silencing any criticism. I don't know of any organization that did that and succeeded. When you try so hard to shut down critics, you only magnify the very thing you try to stop.
This is not a free speech issue, it is a stupidity issue. Sure they can ban anyone they want, but doing so only makes them look worse than the people they ban. They know they can't keep this scam going if the money stops rolling in, so they have to keep pretending like they are making progress. Eventually the house of cards will collapse and the rivers of fanboy tears will flood the internet. You can rest assured that Chris Roberts, his family and his friends will be spending your hard earned crowdfunding dollars on some great vacations when it is all over.
Note: nothing the SC people did will actually "cost" their semi-banned customer anything. What is the "value" of being able to post on a company funded game forum?
If they had banned this customer from using the product he "paid" for, for conduct outside the scope of a EULA, that would be grounds to sue. (And no EULA could ever legally prohibit a customer from saying negative things about a product at a 3rd party site.)
But since there isn't any real monetary value at issue, there is really nothing to win even if the customer did want to sue.
Freedom of speech = Freedom to say whatever you want to. It does not mean you are free from the consequences of your actions.
If you are actively punishing people for what they say, then you are attempting to reduce their freedom of speech. I.e. you are really against freedom of speech.
You can post whatever the hell you want. And you will face the consequences of posting something the owners of the forum don't approve of. Nothing is being limited at all. Yes they are punishing people because that is the CONSEQUENCE of their action. But that's how life works. Your actions have consequences regardless if you like them or not.
Is blocking of telemarketers going against freedom of speech?
In the case of telemarketers: they offered a service, you declined. That's not punishing. Punishing would be to as a consequence revoke their membership in a club in which both of you participate.
They offer a service, I decline and they keep calling. Then you get blocked. That's the consequences of their actions. I did not like that they continue to call me so I am entitled to block them because I do no like what they are doing.
You really have to start reading links man. Its clear in the link of the email exchange that Beer was in fact banned for his actions out side the RSI forums.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
We have been reading the same information. And yes, I have been reading all available information in detail.
We seem to come to different conclusions.
Feel free to link any official CIG response were they state that ANYONE has been banned for posting on outside boards.
All responses I have read so far - following the same links as you did - is that people have been banned for their behaviour on official CIG media channels. Some have been banned sooner than the usual 5-strike policy ... which is absolutely within the rights of the moderators ... and i personally think it was a good idea.
Ok after reading what @Erillion suggested it seems this guys is a severely toxic person, i think his ban from forums is a good decision.
But i will say it again : stalking customers on social media or online forums to see if they are trash talking your product is just wrong. Sony and capcom may be doing it but that doesn't mean Cloud Imperium should do it too.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
This storm-in-a-teacup is amusing, but totally trivial.
Those that want to find reasons to dislike CIG will add this to their collection. The rest will simply have a chuckle and move on.
No game developer will ever ban you for reasonable and civil criticism. But once that crosses the line into wild allegations, accusations and insults, then things go bad fast.
Too many people think that calling a developer a "moron" or "scam artist" is part of constructive criticism.
You really have to start reading links man. Its clear in the link of the email exchange that Beer was in fact banned for his actions out side the RSI forums.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
We have been reading the same information. And yes, I have been reading all available information in detail.
We seem to come to different conclusions.
Feel free to link any official CIG response were they state that ANYONE has been banned for posting on outside boards.
All responses I have read so far - following the same links as you did - is that people have been banned for their behaviour on official CIG media channels. Some have been banned sooner than the usual 5-strike policy ... which is absolutely within the rights of the moderators ... and i personally think it was a good idea.
Have fun
What do you think they're going to say? Do you see them making announcements on their official forums, "Be careful what you say anywhere else on the internet! We'll be watching you!"?
What, in the world, do you think they're going to tell people? Here's a hint. "Hey, you can still buy a ship for 250usd!!"
You really have to start reading links man. Its clear in the link of the email exchange that Beer was in fact banned for his actions out side the RSI forums.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
We have been reading the same information. And yes, I have been reading all available information in detail.
We seem to come to different conclusions.
Feel free to link any official CIG response were they state that ANYONE has been banned for posting on outside boards.
All responses I have read so far - following the same links as you did - is that people have been banned for their behaviour on official CIG media channels. Some have been banned sooner than the usual 5-strike policy ... which is absolutely within the rights of the moderators ... and i personally think it was a good idea.
Have fun
Please just read the linked. You can then see CIG's official response. After all its their emails.
Yeah seems scary that you could say something bad about say your local supermarket, ie the parking is bad or something like that on twitter, then BAM they bar you from the store.
That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Freedom of speech = Freedom to say whatever you want to. It does not mean you are free from the consequences of your actions.
If you are actively punishing people for what they say, then you are attempting to reduce their freedom of speech. I.e. you are really against freedom of speech.
You can post whatever the hell you want. And you will face the consequences of posting something the owners of the forum don't approve of. Nothing is being limited at all. Yes they are punishing people because that is the CONSEQUENCE of their action. But that's how life works. Your actions have consequences regardless if you like them or not.
Is blocking of telemarketers going against freedom of speech?
In the case of telemarketers: they offered a service, you declined. That's not punishing. Punishing would be to as a consequence revoke their membership in a club in which both of you participate.
They offer a service, I decline and they keep calling. Then you get blocked. That's the consequences of their actions. I did not like that they continue to call me so I am entitled to block them because I do no like what they are doing.
Yes, but you are not punishing them. What was your relationship before they started calling: none. What's your relationship after you block them: none. There are consequences that are not actively punishing them. That's why I bring up the "club" example: if you were to not only block them on your phone but also revoke their membership in that separate club, then that would be actively punishing.
Thread times not matching thread manifest? Cool setting to keep this conversation from the front page? How much of the 100 million did that option cost?
Wow. It is amazing what gamers will be willing to accept. You would have done well as a KGB agent in Soviet Russia. I can't believe anyone is actually defending this practice. You should not be banned from official forums because of something you say on a 3rd party forum. This is unprecedented for a reason, it is insane.
I think it's more amazing that people have invested actual energy into this and continue to post and whine and cry and complain.
Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.
The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.
No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.
Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.
That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Wow. It is amazing what gamers will be willing to accept. You would have done well as a KGB agent in Soviet Russia. I can't believe anyone is actually defending this practice. You should not be banned from official forums because of something you say on a 3rd party forum. This is unprecedented for a reason, it is insane.
I think it's more amazing that people have invested actual energy into this and continue to post and whine and cry and complain.
Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.
The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.
No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.
Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.
That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.
I know, man. I can't stand it when people pipe up when I try to beat and mug people on the El train. Why don't they mind their own business? It's like they're a bunch of adolescent, wanna-be superheroes warning old folks not to come near me. I can't stand those jerks saying stupid things about my past behavior and apparent threat. Everyone should have their lips stapled and let me do what I like to do, take peoples' money.
... the article on the first page is that he was banned for associating with Derek Smart which is the same as corporate espionage. ....
THIS sentence in the article >>>> Apparently, Beer was
banned for having discussions with developer Derek Smart, ....
>>> is a personal opinion of the author of the article and not
in line with known facts (see CIG's official answer to the author of the
article : "Just to reiterate…this individual was blocked for behavior
on our site.").
Have fun
Backed up by emails linked. You can choose to believe the emails or not just like you can choose to believe the quotes linked with no proof in the INN article.
.. Do you all really see this as a good thing? ...
Not only do I see it as a good thing, but I applaud it !
Pity more game companies don't take their moderation duties more seriously.
Well let's hope you have not written anything bad about anything anywhere otherwise you might just get banned from the entire internet. Hell why limit it there? Let's also monitor your phones, your conversations in person and someday maybe even what you are thinking as well!
Wow. It is amazing what gamers will be willing to accept. You would have done well as a KGB agent in Soviet Russia. I can't believe anyone is actually defending this practice. You should not be banned from official forums because of something you say on a 3rd party forum. This is unprecedented for a reason, it is insane.
I think it's more amazing that people have invested actual energy into this and continue to post and whine and cry and complain.
Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.
The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.
No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.
Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.
That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.
I know, man. I can't stand it when people pipe up when I try to beat and mug people on the El train. Why don't they mind their own business? It's like they're a bunch of adolescent, wanna-be superheroes warning old folks not to come near me. I can't stand those jerks saying stupid things about my past behavior and apparent threat. Everyone should have their lips stapled and let me do what I like to do, take peoples' money.
The first thing is that if people gave money in a crowd funding endeavor they need to be clear about what they are doing and the risks.
If they don't understand what they are doing and what is happening to their money and that there are no guarantees then they shouldn't be giving money. Spend it elsewhere, invest in something real.
Do I understand if someone is upset because they feel they have thrown away their money? Partially. I get the emotion but I'm a firm believer in accepting your behavior, mistakes and all.
If I give my money to an endeavor and I know their are risks and the endeavor doesn't turn out how I want then that's unfortunate but that's on me.
But am I going to endlessly complain on forums ad infinitum? No, lesson learned and I move on. done and done and hopefully I've learned a valuable lesson.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Wow. It is amazing what gamers will be willing to accept. You would have done well as a KGB agent in Soviet Russia. I can't believe anyone is actually defending this practice. You should not be banned from official forums because of something you say on a 3rd party forum. This is unprecedented for a reason, it is insane.
I think it's more amazing that people have invested actual energy into this and continue to post and whine and cry and complain.
Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.
The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.
No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.
Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.
That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.
I know, man. I can't stand it when people pipe up when I try to beat and mug people on the El train. Why don't they mind their own business? It's like they're a bunch of adolescent, wanna-be superheroes warning old folks not to come near me. I can't stand those jerks saying stupid things about my past behavior and apparent threat. Everyone should have their lips stapled and let me do what I like to do, take peoples' money.
The first thing is that if people gave money in a crowd funding endeavor they need to be clear about what they are doing and the risks.
If they don't understand what they are doing and what is happening to their money and that there are no guarantees then they shouldn't be giving money. Spend it elsewhere, invest in something real.
Do I understand if someone is upset because they feel they have thrown away their money? Partially. I get the emotion but I'm a firm believer in accepting your behavior, mistakes and all.
If I give my money to an endeavor and I know their are risks and the endeavor doesn't turn out how I want then that's unfortunate but that's on me.
But am I going to endlessly complain on forums ad infinitum? No, lesson learned and I move on. done and done and hopefully I've learned a valuable lesson.
Are they still selling 250usd spaceships? Maybe they can close shop until they at least have a beta build, or hey, even an alpha build, not a pre-alpha demo?
Comments
What if every game company actively started monitoring this site to ban people from bashing their games on this forum? How would we feel about that? Would that type of action be acceptable? I think not. IMO, this is bad business. I was leery about this company to start, this action has only made me more so.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
This is not a free speech issue, it is a stupidity issue. Sure they can ban anyone they want, but doing so only makes them look worse than the people they ban. They know they can't keep this scam going if the money stops rolling in, so they have to keep pretending like they are making progress. Eventually the house of cards will collapse and the rivers of fanboy tears will flood the internet. You can rest assured that Chris Roberts, his family and his friends will be spending your hard earned crowdfunding dollars on some great vacations when it is all over.
If they had banned this customer from using the product he "paid" for, for conduct outside the scope of a EULA, that would be grounds to sue. (And no EULA could ever legally prohibit a customer from saying negative things about a product at a 3rd party site.)
But since there isn't any real monetary value at issue, there is really nothing to win even if the customer did want to sue.
We seem to come to different conclusions.
Feel free to link any official CIG response were they state that ANYONE has been banned for posting on outside boards.
All responses I have read so far - following the same links as you did - is that people have been banned for their behaviour on official CIG media channels. Some have been banned sooner than the usual 5-strike policy ... which is absolutely within the rights of the moderators ... and i personally think it was a good idea.
Have fun
But i will say it again : stalking customers on social media or online forums to see if they are trash talking your product is just wrong. Sony and capcom may be doing it but that doesn't mean Cloud Imperium should do it too.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
in the mean time, back on topic.
SC banned someone on their forum by monitoring their internet activity on another forum.
All sorts of dodgy going on with SC.
Those that want to find reasons to dislike CIG will add this to their collection. The rest will simply have a chuckle and move on.
No game developer will ever ban you for reasonable and civil criticism. But once that crosses the line into wild allegations, accusations and insults, then things go bad fast.
Too many people think that calling a developer a "moron" or "scam artist" is part of constructive criticism.
What, in the world, do you think they're going to tell people? Here's a hint. "Hey, you can still buy a ship for 250usd!!"
Please stop spreading misinformation.
That for me is unacceptable censorship, on thier own forums more power to them, but when I say something that isn't said on thier media, then hell no
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Again, if you don't like a company or the people who run it then don't have anything to do with the company and move on.
The idea that people carry around this vitriol is extremely unhealthy and disturbing. It's as if they are permanently stunted in their adolescence and never learned how to deal with the world.
No wonder people who play video games get a bad rap. There are vocal people out there who make it seem like we are all entitled cry babies.
Should people get a ban from saying things about a company on another site? Probably not but that doesn't matter because they did.
That shows the type of people/company they are so customers should just move on. Problem solved.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If they don't understand what they are doing and what is happening to their money and that there are no guarantees then they shouldn't be giving money. Spend it elsewhere, invest in something real.
Do I understand if someone is upset because they feel they have thrown away their money? Partially. I get the emotion but I'm a firm believer in accepting your behavior, mistakes and all.
If I give my money to an endeavor and I know their are risks and the endeavor doesn't turn out how I want then that's unfortunate but that's on me.
But am I going to endlessly complain on forums ad infinitum? No, lesson learned and I move on. done and done and hopefully I've learned a valuable lesson.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo