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DJ#16 - The Weight and Measure of a Lifetime

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Comments

  • Deffcon_1Deffcon_1 Member UncommonPosts: 164
    Its because some people can only see worst case scenarios, regardless of probabilities. They think that every single 'death' is a death. Either ignoring the information about incapacitation or just assuming that everyone and everything will always coup de grace you. I feel most of the people saying that people will be buying new sparks within a few weeks or a month wont be happy with any answer you have short of saying its subscription based or free-to-play. Anyone that can do math and reads what has been written can see this game will almost certainly cost less than a standard MMO sub.
  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472
    I simply don't understand how even after writing about it..... people still don't get it. I guess if you'd rather pay the $150 per year that's entirely up to you.... 
    Actually, if the cost is 15 per month and there are 12 months, that's 15 x 12 which equals 180. So it's actually 30 dollars higher than even your amount.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • Gaming.Rocks2Gaming.Rocks2 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    I simply don't understand how even after writing about it..... people still don't get it. I guess if you'd rather pay the $150 per year that's entirely up to you.... 
    It doesn't matter how many times you write about it. There are games that have been released for many years and people still make completely false statements about them. 

    Another problem is you are doing something new which is bound to controversy and misunderstandings. The familiar womb always provides more safety. You can't blame people to prefer what they already know and have tested before. 

    If you believe your model is better you will (hopefully) prove it in action when the time comes. My personally worry lies if this plan can actually support your product in time, and there is nothing you can say to address all the issues because you can't know for sure yourself. 

    People have to play your game for a long time to be able to trust it completely and have to experience its success for a couple of years to finally say "hey, this was a better model afterall!" 
    I root for that day to come because you deserve it so far. GG @JeromyWalsh ;
    Gaming Rocks next gen. community for last gen. gamers launching soon. 
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    I simply don't understand how even after writing about it..... people still don't get it. I guess if you'd rather pay the $150 per year that's entirely up to you.... 
    Probably because like everything of CoE at this point in time it is nothing but conjecture.   While you and your disciples want to only shine the light on the full side, other see no reason why they cannot shine then light on the empty side.  Both are valid until the game is complete.

    You know like the 10 year story arc you keep talking about, except you don't have a Story Director and there is no actual story written, that's just a trifling detail to overcome, like you know the part of code that isn't written yet that the soulborn program is suppose to use to make this whole Choose Your Own Adventure thing happen.  Piddly details.
  • FenrialFenrial Member UncommonPosts: 8
    The design of the game and the business model are closely connected. While it's technically possible to separate them, it makes less sense.
    I don't see why this is the case. I mean if you anticipate players will be buying a spark of life once per year at $x then why not simply charge a yearly fee of $x? That would put everyone on a fair, even playing field and it's very similar to a monthly sub which is a proven business model people are already familiar with.

    I'd think the loss of your character, and potentially all of your in game wealth if you die without an heir would be death penalty enough.

  • Deffcon_1Deffcon_1 Member UncommonPosts: 164
    Fenrial said:

    I don't see why this is the case. I mean if you anticipate players will be buying a spark of life once per year at $x then why not simply charge a yearly fee of $x? That would put everyone on a fair, even playing field and it's very similar to a monthly sub which is a proven business model people are already familiar with.

    I'd think the loss of your character, and potentially all of your in game wealth if you die without an heir would be death penalty enough.

    Doing that removes the risk from doing things though. There is a risk/reward system built into the game, and removing the risk leaves only reward. As someone who doesnt have a lot(any) extra money the business model is intimidating because I may not know when I'll need a new spark. Although, from new information we have been given I will have a decent idea. This will change the way I play the game. If I knew that I just had a yearly or monthly sub and I could play no matter what, Im going to play differently than if I dont know. Losing in game things is not a real punishment. Ive played in many places that have open pvp and full loot and Ive lost many great things, and never once I have thought about quitting a game because I lost stuff. It isnt ideal to 'punish' someones wallet, but honestly there isnt a better way to put risk into the game.
  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    Probably because like everything of CoE at this point in time it is nothing but conjecture.   
    This simply isn't true. Moving on...

    While you and your disciples...
    I've been called a god before, but thank you for acknowledging..

    While you and your disciples want to only shine the light on the full side, other see no reason why they cannot shine then light on the empty side.  Both are valid until the game is complete.
    I have no idea how that relates to my question of why people refuse to believe we're not trying to charge people more than once or twice a year... or that it's within their control. But I suppose trolls will be trolls.

    You know like the 10 year story arc you keep talking about, except you don't have a Story Director and there is no actual story written, that's just a trifling detail to overcome, like you know the part of code that isn't written yet that the soulborn program is suppose to use to make this whole Choose Your Own Adventure thing happen.  Piddly details.
    No. We don't have a story director yet. Yes, we have a story. Will we allow the Story Director to make changes to the current story as they feel necessary? Yes.

    ...like you know the part of code that isn't written yet that the soulborn program is suppose to use to make this whole Choose Your Own Adventure thing happen.  Piddly details.
    I have no idea what your issue is. I'm not particularly bothered by it, but it does strike me as interesting. Continue to criticize everything we do if you like, it makes no difference to me. I only wish I had the free time you do..

    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    Probably because like everything of CoE at this point in time it is nothing but conjecture.   
    This simply isn't true. Moving on...

    While you and your disciples...
    I've been called a god before, but thank you for acknowledging..

    While you and your disciples want to only shine the light on the full side, other see no reason why they cannot shine then light on the empty side.  Both are valid until the game is complete.
    I have no idea how that relates to my question of why people refuse to believe we're not trying to charge people more than once or twice a year... or that it's within their control. But I suppose trolls will be trolls.

    You know like the 10 year story arc you keep talking about, except you don't have a Story Director and there is no actual story written, that's just a trifling detail to overcome, like you know the part of code that isn't written yet that the soulborn program is suppose to use to make this whole Choose Your Own Adventure thing happen.  Piddly details.
    No. We don't have a story director yet. Yes, we have a story. Will we allow the Story Director to make changes to the current story as they feel necessary? Yes.

    ...like you know the part of code that isn't written yet that the soulborn program is suppose to use to make this whole Choose Your Own Adventure thing happen.  Piddly details.
    I have no idea what your issue is. I'm not particularly bothered by it, but it does strike me as interesting. Continue to criticize everything we do if you like, it makes no difference to me. I only wish I had the free time you do..

    We have seen absolutely nothing to say this game is not vaporware.

    That says more about your ego to think saying something about you having disciple puts you on the same mantle as a god.

    Because you are charging people more than once or twice a year.   In fact this is a game that totally screws over people who actively try to be a part of the game.  Something you are completely downplaying.  And we get your usual response, accuse the person of trollage.  Speaking truth no matter if you don't want people to know it isn't being a troll.

    No that is not what you said
    "This is in part because we're talking to a potential Story Director and have intentionally left a lot of the story unwritten in order to leave that in the hands of the Story Director. This isn't a concern mind you. I wrote the Soulborn Engine to be usable across multiple genres, in different worlds, so the absence of a fully fleshed out story isn't required (or desired) at this point."
    That is what you said

    You do seem to have loads of free time, you spend large amounts of time floating around the various forums pimping your game.


  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472
    Probably because like everything of CoE at this point in time it is nothing but conjecture.   
    This simply isn't true. Moving on...

    While you and your disciples...
    I've been called a god before, but thank you for acknowledging..

    While you and your disciples want to only shine the light on the full side, other see no reason why they cannot shine then light on the empty side.  Both are valid until the game is complete.
    I have no idea how that relates to my question of why people refuse to believe we're not trying to charge people more than once or twice a year... or that it's within their control. But I suppose trolls will be trolls.

    You know like the 10 year story arc you keep talking about, except you don't have a Story Director and there is no actual story written, that's just a trifling detail to overcome, like you know the part of code that isn't written yet that the soulborn program is suppose to use to make this whole Choose Your Own Adventure thing happen.  Piddly details.
    No. We don't have a story director yet. Yes, we have a story. Will we allow the Story Director to make changes to the current story as they feel necessary? Yes.

    ...like you know the part of code that isn't written yet that the soulborn program is suppose to use to make this whole Choose Your Own Adventure thing happen.  Piddly details.
    I have no idea what your issue is. I'm not particularly bothered by it, but it does strike me as interesting. Continue to criticize everything we do if you like, it makes no difference to me. I only wish I had the free time you do..

    We have seen absolutely nothing to say this game is not vaporware.

    That says more about your ego to think saying something about you having disciple puts you on the same mantle as a god.

    Because you are charging people more than once or twice a year.   In fact this is a game that totally screws over people who actively try to be a part of the game.  Something you are completely downplaying.  And we get your usual response, accuse the person of trollage.  Speaking truth no matter if you don't want people to know it isn't being a troll.

    No that is not what you said
    "This is in part because we're talking to a potential Story Director and have intentionally left a lot of the story unwritten in order to leave that in the hands of the Story Director. This isn't a concern mind you. I wrote the Soulborn Engine to be usable across multiple genres, in different worlds, so the absence of a fully fleshed out story isn't required (or desired) at this point."
    That is what you said

    You do seem to have loads of free time, you spend large amounts of time floating around the various forums pimping your game.


    That line about being considered a god was never suppose to be taken seriously.  It's a sort of dry humor. I'd be very surprised if Jeremy actually thought he was a god.

    As for the vaporware line, it's not really at the point of development where they are really expected to show video clips.  Now if they start asking for money, then a video clip and maybe even gameplay footage would be required (imo).  Right now they are simply giving information to people. Theres nothing we lose by letting them talk and show pictures.  The worst that can happen is they don't follow through and we end up wasting some time following a game that never comes to fruition.

    Not really sure where the venom is coming from here as you are not giving them any money, you aren't required to work for them, all they are doing is basically sending out free dev journals (You don't even have to register or go to their site as it's hand delivered to you on this site) and showing pictures.  Once they start asking for money then by all means start asking questions and expecting answers.

    That doesn't mean you can't ask questions on how things work, but lets hold off on being quite so agressive (which I don't even think you can deny) you've been towards these people. Take a few hours and reread some of your posts such as "We have seen absolutely nothing to say this game is not vaporware."  That's a bit aggressive as they aren't even into the point where they are asking for money, most game studios show no clips, show no gameplay footage, they sometimes don't even show you a name, and typically until a game is released it's still vaporware so yeah, even showing video clips and giving gameplay footage wouldn't really prove it's not vaporware.  Give them time (ie when they start asking for money from people) :)

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    At this point, all I can say is: we've tried to be a transparent company, and have worked hard to develop a relationship with the community. Some people seem hellbent on trying to punish us for bringing people into the development process before we're ready for "alpha". 

    @Timberhick I'm not really sure what your motivation is, but you're entitled to keep at it. Heck, I encourage you to do so. Whatever it may be, you continue to drive interested people to our website by keeping us on the front page of the website. For that, thank you.

    With that said, every time I try and be rational with you, you try and throw something I said in a live chat or discussion back at me as if I either didn't know I said it, or am somehow guilty of something. I haven't asked you, or anyone else for that matter... for anything. Meanwhile, I've drained my savings, sold my property, and now employ half a dozen people - giving them and their families an income, to bring some percentage of the world a game I believe they want.

    Whether you hate me, love me, or despise me, please respect me. I'm working my ass off - my entire team is, to make a great game - for you (and others).

    And finally, in the off chance you're not polite, respectful, and appreciative of our efforts thus far - even if the game isn't in a state we feel is showable yet, please know I won't be responding to you further. It's not that I don't value what you say, or that you're not deserving of a response, I just don't feel the need to defend myself to you.

    So in the mean time, I hope you enjoy our design journals, our screenshots, our videos, and our live chats. If not, you're free to either go about your business, or continue to keep us on the front page of MMORPG.com. Either is fine with us.
    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    Funny how the people asking the questions are the bad guys in this.
  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    Funny how the people asking the questions are the bad guys in this.
    This is for the MMORPG community that sees this afterwards...

    We don't have a problem with people asking questions. That's why we show up to IRC on a regular basis. That's why we respond to peoples' questions here on MMORPG.com. That's why we have live Q&A's. It's even why we write design journals. To answer the questions people have about the game we're making.

    Anyone may ask intelligent questions and we'll do our best to provide intelligent, honest answers. Where we cannot provide answers, we always give an intelligent reason for why.

    Thanks!
    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    Intelligent reasons why, too funny.



    'Intelligent questions time'.

    Why are you charging people(who are actively trying to take part in the [Soulborn Story]game), more?
    How difficult will it be for a group of players to manipulate someones "Fame Rating"?

  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 385
    You the player cannot see your own or anyone elses fame rating. 
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    So?  What does that have to do with my question?
  • imscareyimscarey Member UncommonPosts: 9

    How difficult will it be for a group of players to manipulate someones "Fame Rating"?

    From what I understand shouldnt be to hard to increase someone else's fame with a decent size group. You would just need to write about them or talk about them in game. Ie go ask all the NPC's if they have seen "Fake Celebrity,"  go to the local tavern and tell a story about them. Basically the more people know about somone the more famous they are. So also get your friends in the next town over to talk about them.
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    From what has been released so far Rhoklaw, imscarey seems to be on the same assumption-length as I am.
    A decently sized guild and blackmail can become an actual commodity.

    Not knowing what your fame rating is, while having fame rating tied directly to actual money?  Seems a bit fishy.
  • MaggonMaggon Member UncommonPosts: 357
    edited January 2016
    From what has been released so far Rhoklaw, imscarey seems to be on the same assumption-length as I am.
    A decently sized guild and blackmail can become an actual commodity.

    Not knowing what your fame rating is, while having fame rating tied directly to actual money?  Seems a bit fishy.
    How exactly is fame tied to your money ?
    Post edited by Maggon on
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    Did you not read DJ#16?

    The higher your fame rating the more days are taken off when you die.
    1. Unknown (x1)(2days)
    2. Notable (x1.5)(3days)
    3. Prominent (x2)(4days)
    4. Famous (x4)(8days)
    5. Renowned (x8)(16days)
    6. Exalted (x16)(32days)
    7. Legendary (x32)(64days)
    Don't forget this game has a variable amount of time per 30$
    DJ#16: 270.8 and 437.5 days. If we drop the decimals you're looking at between 270 and 437 (avg. 354) days of play.

    That means at fame rating 7 you have have between 4.2-6.8 deaths per spark(starting at age 15) and it immediately goes down hill from there the longer you play.  That means a player becomes king(age 15) that character can be completely gone from the game in less than 1 real world day.
    DJ#16 : first toll cap we're considering is limiting one toll per 2.5 hours (1 Elyrian day)








  • MaggonMaggon Member UncommonPosts: 357
    edited January 2016
    Did you not read DJ#16?

    The higher your fame rating the more days are taken off when you die.
    1. Unknown (x1)(2days)
    2. Notable (x1.5)(3days)
    3. Prominent (x2)(4days)
    4. Famous (x4)(8days)
    5. Renowned (x8)(16days)
    6. Exalted (x16)(32days)
    7. Legendary (x32)(64days)
    Don't forget this game has a variable amount of time per 30$
    DJ#16: 270.8 and 437.5 days. If we drop the decimals you're looking at between 270 and 437 (avg. 354) days of play.

    That means at fame rating 7 you have have between 4.2-6.8 deaths per spark(starting at age 15) and it immediately goes down hill from there the longer you play.  That means a player becomes king(age 15) that character can be completely gone from the game in less than 1 real world day.
    DJ#16 : first toll cap we're considering is limiting one toll per 2.5 hours (1 Elyrian day)








    But that's sort of the point no ? - Whether or not you would like to go with these risks, obviously you have the choice as to whether or not you want to be a monarch (if the situation present itself when doing so), and it also makes you think if you want to risk doing certain things or not - where without the penalty of actually losing your life, you could do whatever with no risk involved.

    I don't see the fishy part to this as you put it, just force you into thinking about your actions before actually doing them, and actually becoming that famous is apparently not as easy as it might sound, and is only going to be for a very few individuals who has done amazing feats within the game in one way or another, which in itself does seem to be tied directly to your own choices, and what you do with them.

    And even being at the fame rating legendary at the age of 15 within the game, seems to be near impossible, unless the king - that players ingame father/mother, would have been killed or simply just died (though I honostly don't know if princes/Princesses will be of legendary status).

    EDIT: To me it doesn't seem like the game is designed in a way where everything is going to be equal to everyone, and since if your fame rating is legendary, you obviously will have a lot of influence both to the world and surroundings, and will be called upon if something of a legendary nature is going to happen (I think), where the outcome could be huge for probably the entire continent - The risks with this should also be there, ergo in this case, would be that if you die a few times you'll end up losing your character, could lead to some really interesting scenarios.
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554


    Did you not read DJ#16?

    DJ#16:
    Among the most direct, though not necessarily the easiest way to gain fame, is to hold a position of power in the local, regional, or national government. These positions of power automatically grant you fame up to some base level, which maps as follows:
    • Elder or Village Council: Notable
    • Mayor/Town Council: Prominent
    • Magistrate/City Council or Baron: Famous
    • Count or Sheriff: Renowned
    • Duke: Exalted
    • King: Legendary

    My original questions
    Why are you charging people(who are actively trying to take part in the [Soulborn Story]game), more?
    How difficult will it be for a group of players to manipulate someones "Fame Rating"?

    zultra says a player cannot see their own fame rating.
    They already listed the rank - for 'political office' at least.

    How can you not see the fishy part?  It's related to PvP and this is Jeromy's thoughts on that:
    "Important is not the same as frequent... and that's precisely our goal. PvP, that is, player vs. player physical combat will happen less frequently in CoE (by design), but will have bigger impact on the players, and an impact on the story - something that doesn't exist in other MMOs.

    Legal means of combat such as wars, arena combat, dueling, etc... all have an impact on your player, and occasionally on the story. Wars change political boundaries, and usher in the era of a new Duke or King, etc. Arena combat can gain someone fame & renown, and can earn them jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have been offered. It can also sometimes make them a target. Dueling can be used to resolve contract disputes.

    Illegal forms of combat, such as highway robbery, murder, etc... while illegal, and hopefully less common than in other MMOs will almost always have some impact on the story. And this isn't just the larger 10-year story. It's liable to ignite players into action, put them on a man-hunt, etc...

    So again, while PvP may not be as common in CoE, it will almost always be important. "


    At first he comes out strong '[PvP]less frequently in CoE (by design)' but by the end of his speech not so forceful 'illegal, and hopefully less common than in other MMOs'.
    However, PvP is tied directly to your money
    DJ#16: currently estimated price of $29.99 per Spark of Life...-....To begin with, the base spirit loss for a death is 2 real-life days of play, each time you are forced to Spirit Walk.

    The true cost of a life in this game is anywheres from 15 hours to over 14 months.  That is what the price of fame gets you.  Sure as long as you stay as a nobody and never do anything you can play for 9-14months(which btw is a 60% swing huge variance when it comes to money but whatevs.) however as soon as you start to get into The Story the odds of you being allowed to have the 270-437 days/spark are gone



  • SerylliousSeryllious Member UncommonPosts: 43
    Funny how the people asking the questions are the bad guys in this.
    You're not asking questions. You're not some kind of innocent, third party with legitimate concerns about CoE. If you were, I would be seriously concerned about your reading comprehension skills. Logic and reason are beyond you.

    I'm surprised Caspian has devoted an ounce of time responding to your posts. Interestingly enough, you don't seem to respect his willingness to reach out. What exactly does he owe us? Nothing. If CoE doesn't interest you - why do you care to the point of actually responding to these posts?
  • IndirectPvPIndirectPvP Member CommonPosts: 8
    Cost vs value is always up to the buyer in the end.  I put a high value on adventuring, exploration and the challenge that comes with them. It is possible that my cost will be higher for a spark as I throw caution to the wind and live a life full of what i love. Now i can reduce the full value of my spark by ignoring what i enjoy trying to keep the costs down, I would have to then ask myself "WTF am i doing?".  The value of the spark isn't monetary but rather how I feel the characters life was lived, no matter how long or short.
      

    Wouldn't you rather "be" than "do"?
  • TimberhickTimberhick Member UncommonPosts: 554
    Funny how the people asking the questions are the bad guys in this.
    You're not asking questions. You're not some kind of innocent, third party with legitimate concerns about CoE. If you were, I would be seriously concerned about your reading comprehension skills. Logic and reason are beyond you.

    I'm surprised Caspian has devoted an ounce of time responding to your posts. Interestingly enough, you don't seem to respect his willingness to reach out. What exactly does he owe us? Nothing. If CoE doesn't interest you - why do you care to the point of actually responding to these posts?
    But it does interest me, I'm just not a devoted fan like you are.

  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 385
    Cost vs value is always up to the buyer in the end.  I put a high value on adventuring, exploration and the challenge that comes with them. It is possible that my cost will be higher for a spark as I throw caution to the wind and live a life full of what i love. Now i can reduce the full value of my spark by ignoring what i enjoy trying to keep the costs down, I would have to then ask myself "WTF am i doing?".  The value of the spark isn't monetary but rather how I feel the characters life was lived, no matter how long or short.
      

    Wouldn't you rather "be" than "do"?
    pretty much if you take risks there will be rewards. 
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