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Funding/Acquisition of PFO

13

Comments

  • VlarpVlarp Member CommonPosts: 7
    Bluddwolf said:
    This stringing along of those that have been loyal following this game borders on abusive.  For those that say Paizo is separate from Goblin Works, not so since January.  

    This treatment of a consumer base, even if not identical to the base that plays Pathfinder RPG should have a backlash on Paizo.

    Lisa Stevens owns this fiasco.   
    Not so how Bluddwolf?  Because Goblinworks shut down their office and moved into the Paizo building?  Goblinworks is still a separate corporation.  All financial transactions, crowdfunding agreements and legal terms of service have gone through Goblinworks and not Paizo.

    There will be no backlash.  The tabletop community has never supported nor cares anything about Pathfinder Online.  At the last few Paizocons most of the people I talked to had no interest in this MMO and wished it was replaced with something new entirely.  

    From an ethical perspective perhaps Lisa or others at Paizo might feel like they should fulfill their commitments to Pathfinder Online.  However the reality is that it will not significantly impact their primary business.  It's even possible that through shutting down PFO the couple of hundreds existing PFO players will now have more free money every month to buy more tabletop products.  The remaining playerbase consists of rabidly loyal fanboys who are desparately clinging to any IP licensed by Paizo.  They love everything Pathfinder and no matter how much they lost on this they will return immediately to supporting their product lines and someday to future computer games.

    There will be no legal repercussions if Goblinworks shuts down the game next week and dissolves. Disgruntled players will just need to move on.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,386
    Vlarp said:
    There will be no backlash.  The tabletop community has never supported nor cares anything about Pathfinder Online.  
    People who plays Pathfinder hardly cares about something... since they miss a brain.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Nyctelios said:
    Vlarp said:
    There will be no backlash.  The tabletop community has never supported nor cares anything about Pathfinder Online.  
    People who plays Pathfinder hardly cares about something... since they miss a brain.
    Please, just because it isn't to your taste (nor mine) doesn't make the players who like it braindead. And there indeed wont be a backlash but neither will they get the millions of people that actually play the P&P game and that is far worse then a backlash.

    I don't see any point in using a huge IP for a small niche game not supported by the original fans. Just buy the code and change the setting to a basic fantasy world, it is not much work.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    Loke666 said:
     Just buy the code and change the setting to a basic fantasy world, it is not much work.
    Face my eternal frowning of disbelieve.
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  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,386
    Loke666 said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Vlarp said:
    There will be no backlash.  The tabletop community has never supported nor cares anything about Pathfinder Online.  
    People who plays Pathfinder hardly cares about something... since they miss a brain.
    Please, just because it isn't to your taste (nor mine) doesn't make the players who like it braindead. And there indeed wont be a backlash but neither will they get the millions of people that actually play the P&P game and that is far worse then a backlash.

    I don't see any point in using a huge IP for a small niche game not supported by the original fans. Just buy the code and change the setting to a basic fantasy world, it is not much work.
    I agree. Is not because I dislike something it should be considered bad.

    It is considered bad because it is bad. And I say the player base is brain dead because they actually are.

    They are in the same pile of people who enjoy Tokyo Defenders and people who thinks D&D4ed is not a bad system.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    New Update Oct 11.  They are 2/3 the way there! May be any day!!!!!


    NewCorp has been able to get commitments for two thirds of the money needed to fund the finishing of Pathfinder Online, but the final third has been difficult to say the least. Multiple times over the past 8 months, we have felt that we were days away from the final commitment only to have it fall apart at the last minute. If you look over the past NewCorp updates, you could probably pinpoint exactly when those events happened by the tone of the posts. Nothing is as frustrating as putting in all the time and effort into making those deals happen only to have them fall apart.

    NewCorp has a very exciting meeting at the end of this week with a company that I hope can close that gap in funding. It is a super critical meeting and I want all of their efforts focused entirely on bringing the funding home so we can move onward towards the next phase. Which is why I agreed to take back over the community updates. If you see another update from NewCorp, it will be because they have closed the deal and are ready to move forward.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    What exactly does "finish up the project mean"?  If they mean finish up on the same trajectory, that means throwing good money after bad.  The project needs significant revamping, always has and will continue to do so.  

    It is still running on the Unity 4 engine, is it not?  That was practically obsolete in 2009.

    The game was excessively "grindy" in nearly every aspect of the game (character advancement, crafting, building structures and even gaining access to PVP without severe penalties).  

    I'm guessing they need about 20 million to salvage this project, and even with that this would be a low budget MMO.

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • IceAgeIceAge Member RarePosts: 2,105
    Bluddwolf said:

    I'm guessing they need about 20 million to salvage this project, and even with that this would be a low budget MMO.
    In today's market, 20 mil budget it's like for a triple A game! 

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,303
    Can't argue with fact the game was not supported,so to the few that do support it,idk maybe they are missing at least a bit of logic.After all i have seen people at least claim to like games you couldn't pay me $500 bucks a month to play.

    What really bothers me is that seems VERY few know the real problem behind this game.The lady who owns the IP is actually to blame,she did not agree to enough expenditures to make a quality game,she personally asked to make it a budget build.

    You cannot go half ass in to game design/build,it is a very risky,costly business,if you can't handle it ,stay away.Point being ,she should have never allowed this game to happen,perhaps somebody fed her some BS to entice her,no matter she made two bad decisions that gave the game no chance to be good let alone successful.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    I see no indication that my prediction is not likely.  I have long predicted that Paizo / Goblin Works will drag this out until January.  It is in January when the longest possible prepaid accounts from the Kickstarter will have to decide whether or not to resubscribe.  They are likely to lose a few dozen or so subscribers and the player base will likely be small enough for them to close the doors.

    if I'm proven wrong, then so be it, that is the nature of predictions.  

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • VlarpVlarp Member CommonPosts: 7
    Bluddwolf do you believe the Lisa Stevens statements are insincere in their announcements of attempting to raise funding?  Are you suggesting that Goblinworks is doing anything wrong or unethical in their efforts?

    I see no indication that Goblinworks would need to wait until January to pull the plug.  They can shutdown the game anytime they want and there will be no difference in repercussions.  Their company can file bankruptcy and/or dissolve and avoid fulfilling all of their financial agreements.  You've provided nothing in your repeated observations that explain why Kickstarter prepaid accounts would have any impact on their decision making.  Employees no longer with the company were already paid out all Kickstarter funding money years ago.  The company is allegedly running today on capital loans from "NewCorp" and current monthly subscriptions.

    You can predict anything you want and claim you're not "wrong" until it doesn't come true.  You can predict that EA has already bought Goblinworks and wants to keep the agreement under wraps.  You can predict that Goblinworks is settling lawsuits with third party software.  Just because you make a prediction doesn't mean there is any value in it unless you have supporting information. 
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    After watching this trainwreck for over 2? years I have learned that @Bluddwolf 's guesses and observation are 10 times more accurate than the PR spin of this dubious company.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • VlarpVlarp Member CommonPosts: 7
    edited October 2016
    Bluddwolf's just been one of the most vocal opponents to root against an obviously sinking ship.  He is actually being optimistic in this instance.  I don't think Goblinworks has enough cunning to conspire in the first place and this theory is illogical to begin with.

    There is no evidence of a January exit.  Lisa Stevens and whoever is behind NewCorp don't have any plans at all.  I do believe they are stringing people along but the real reason is to keep players subbing every month so that Lisa can continue to play the game and to keep Bob and Cole employed.  If she collects all of the T3 recipes she wants and hits level 20 on all of her toons or either of them find another job then the game will be over.  That could happen next week, January of next year or January 2020.  Their decisions have nothing to do with the Kickstarter that ended nearly four years ago.
  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    @ Vlarp I beg to differ on the point of January and the complete fulfillment of the Kickstarter not being important.  You are forgetting that Ryan Dancey touted how successful the Kickstarter was, and at the time that was true. But, if the game shuts down before the last of the kickstarter pledges have been fulfilled then even that feather will fall from the hat.  It really is a last shred of positive PR they can claim for the game.   

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • VlarpVlarp Member CommonPosts: 7
    I hear your same conclusions repeatedly Bludd but not the supporting logic.  Ryan Dancey was sh*tcanned and almost everyone is gone.  Lisa Stevens is on record balling her eyes out over this fiasco.  None of the Kickstarter bonus items were implemented.  Many pledges were not fulfilled and will not be fulfilled by January. 

    Current players will be equally pissed whenever the game is shut down today or next year.  Goblinworks will simply file bankruptcy either way.  Paizo can continue to license their IP to Obsidian for future games no matter when Goblinworks dissolves.  The overwhelming majority of fans of Paizo's tabletop products wanted nothing to do with PFO.  There is absolutely nothing they can do to salvage this.  January 2017 makes no difference.

    You're giving them far more praise and credit in their planning capacity than they deserve.
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    Lyrian said:
    I'm happy to hear that they got the investors to save PFO...but they have a ton of work cut out for them. The game needs to go away from a PvP/control focus and more into the traditional DnD adventure with sandbox elements on top of it. Not this...pesudo-EVE leveling thing they have going on, that bit needs to go, FAST.

    The area that they've chosen to have the game is probably the richest area of story in terms of Pathfinder story, seriously go grab the actual sourcebook for this place in game, or check it out on a wiki. What their source material says and what they've come up with diverges so much, it almost physically hurts to see what they've created.

    If their investor is bringing in the high eight to nine figures for their investment, then I think it can turn into a serious contender if they make good design choices. Right now we just need to wait and see if they make better design choices, or throw more money after the decisions that got them here in the first place.


    LEL, you think they will get high 8 to 9 figures, what friggin planet are you living on?

    At best they will get somewhere between 1 and 10 million, and probably a lot closer to 1 than 10.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Vlarp said:
    I hear your same conclusions repeatedly Bludd but not the supporting logic.  Ryan Dancey was sh*tcanned and almost everyone is gone.  Lisa Stevens is on record balling her eyes out over this fiasco.  None of the Kickstarter bonus items were implemented.  Many pledges were not fulfilled and will not be fulfilled by January. 

    Current players will be equally pissed whenever the game is shut down today or next year.  Goblinworks will simply file bankruptcy either way.  Paizo can continue to license their IP to Obsidian for future games no matter when Goblinworks dissolves.  The overwhelming majority of fans of Paizo's tabletop products wanted nothing to do with PFO.  There is absolutely nothing they can do to salvage this.  January 2017 makes no difference.

    You're giving them far more praise and credit in their planning capacity than they deserve.


    None of those previous pledges were directly tied to a prepaid, monthly subscription, that in my mind makes for an important difference in contrasting Kickstarter bonuses and promises.  


    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • VlarpVlarp Member CommonPosts: 7
    You're giving Goblinworks far too much dignity and forethought Bluddwolf.  There is no difference.  They took money for services they've yet to deliver.

    Sometime in the next three months we'll see the final nail in the coffin of this ad nauseum irrational argument that Paizo is masterminding a January 2017 shutdown to "save face".  We can continue to go over these reasons but ultimately the day will come and go like Y2K and 2012.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,739
    This whole thread makes me want to buy PFO and give it a go, damn curious for sure B)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    lahnmir said:
    This whole thread makes me want to buy PFO and give it a go, damn curious for sure B)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Go for it!
    Sometimes you can tell someone "Don't touch the stove.  It's HOT!!!"  100 times, but they still have to touch it to learn for themselves.



    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    lahnmir said:
    This whole thread makes me want to buy PFO and give it a go, damn curious for sure B)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Go for it!
    Sometimes you can tell someone "Don't touch the stove.  It's HOT!!!"  100 times, but they still have to touch it to learn for themselves.



    My grandfather had a classic stove like that.
    On New Year he would always just swipe up all the fireworks and toss it into the fire although we told him it's dangerous.
    He nuked 2 stoves before he gave up trying to save on money for his fire wood.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Another month closer to January, and still no funding news, other than they don't have the funding needed.

    Are they still charging a monthly sub for alpha testing?  

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • PeaYuPeaYu Member CommonPosts: 2
    This MMO is a bad concept.  People sometimes get their money back from bad terms.  You cannot promise no wipes and also risk massive item duping in player only economy.  Investors lookout for lots of fraud potential here.
  • UncleTopherUncleTopher Member UncommonPosts: 36
    I logged into pathfinder and knew in about 6 seconds that it was crap. Total utter crap. my 9 year old nephew would develop a better game.
    Tophiate
    Co-Founder of Elder Moot
    SotA Founder

  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    I logged into pathfinder and knew in about 6 seconds that it was crap. Total utter crap. my 9 year old nephew would develop a better game.
    If this was based on a recent experience then I'm guessing no real work has been done on the game in  almost 8 months. 

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

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