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Smells like Archeage 2.0

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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Benjola said:
    I agree about Black Desert being Archeage 2.0 but OP is baiting. Equating people who play PVP to college students who use their student loans to P2W. Sounds like a bitter loser (gameplay wise) to me.
    I mentioned one segment (however small or big it might be) of the PVP crowd to give an example.
    Maybe you aren't a student who spends student loan on gaming or you don't know any, that doesn't mean they don't exist.
    Or maybe i struck a nerv I dunno, I don't know you, you tell me.

    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Yeah but archeage was "pay2win" from the beginning. Of course they did not have any cash shop in alpha test but then they introduced less than half of the actual cash shop during closed beta and come open beta they added in whole cash shop. AA was always "pay2win". Well you can spend about 5000$ to get mythic grade items on one of your characters(yes only one) and you can start pawning everyone and after a few weeks you realize you have wasted all the money and made the game boring for yourself and then like kooncoon you can start making youtube video and scream : "thish ish arcageeeee!! sho fucking phay2win!! arcageeee phay2win!!! fuck!!"(yes the only word he can properly spell is fuck). Yes you can do that to yourself or you can just pay 15$ month subscription fee, get maximum labor points and labor regen and make your way up to celestial without spending a single extra $.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • BenjolaBenjola Member UncommonPosts: 843
    edited January 2016
    Jester, so would you be ok with the same situation in BDO?
    You play daily, pay your subs like every supportive gamer would do, learn the mechanics and abilties, train your combos and rotation until they become automatic, aquire the best gear you can find, do everything right and then... the "thish ish arcageeeee!!" credit-card-warrior retard two-shots you and tells you to "L2P nab" , then spawn camps you some until he decides to grief you some more at your house while you try to harvest your farm or craft something?
    Would that affect your game support in any way maybe?


    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Benjola said:
    Jester, so would you be ok with the same situation in BDO?
    You play daily, pay your subs like every supportive gamer would do, learn the mechanics and abilties, train your combos and rotation until they become automatic, aquire the best gear you can find, do everything right and then... the "thish ish arcageeeee!!" credit-card-warrior retard two-shots you and tells you to "L2P nab" , then spawn camps you some until he decides to grief you some more at your house while you try to harvest your farm or craft something?
    Would that affect your game support in any way maybe?


    Ahh yeah let me tell you this also, those "credit cards warriors" stopped playing AA after a month or 2, they still come online from time to time like kooncoon does in korean version, they rant for an hour and then they leave for months again. Such is the cycle for those who ruin something for themselves. Why do you think pay2win games have trouble maintaining high player activity while games with full cosmetic cash shop always seem to have a high population stream and a steady income too? Because there are always people who ruin it for themselves and before they decide to stop playing they ruin the game for a lot of players too.

    And no, i am not happy with how things are in AA, it could be a lot better if Trion would demand of XLGames to change the game upside down for western audience but that is not going to happen. And i am not going to be playing BDO but if same thing happen there, it only shows that practice like this are not going to stop. It is a very sad situation but the way things are going for the developers they seem to taking the drastic road instead of thinking about long term.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    This tactic has been going on a long time.
    The first rendition was to allow easy fast leveling,players become invested with now a level 40.BAM !! next level 50% less xp,then another 50% chop,then again and again,now you are doing some boring repetitive running around 2 shotting super easy mobs and only need to kill 5 million of them per level.Say did we mention we have xp pots for sale?

    I couldn't care less about any grind if it is fun engaging combat,but spinning around like a top killing 20 mobs in 5 seconds is the most brain dead idea for gaming i have ever seen.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    If you want to understand the design philosophy of Asian FTP games watch this presentation from GDC 2012 on $100 000 dollar whales:

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An


    PvP games that have obscene numbers of item tiers with +99 upgrades are a dead give away of pure P2W.

    The goal is to send players down an item upgrading rabbit hole where it is theoretically possible to spend an infinite amount of money yet never reach the cap.

    The goal is to make a profit in under 3 months where cash shop credit card warriors are competing in a sort of arms race for who will spend the most money to be the top pvp god as quickly as possible.

    Once the whale has spent thousands to be king of the hill, it is impossible for others to compete so the server dies. The servers then merge to keep the spending spree arms race going, or new servers open up to start up a whole new cash shop race to the top.

    Eventually the game gets too old, so a new one comes out with a different skin but is still based on the same cash2compete model (AA-->BDO).

    Players who just want to make an honest effort and grind their way through are actually just fodder content for the cash shop players to feel powerful. They are literally irrelevant to the game design since the whole thing is setup to implode within a few months.

    This is why I don't get how people can think that as long as they can spend 3 years grinding to get an item the cash shop guy gets instantly is not P2W. The entire time you are grinding you will be fighting people with superior credit card +99 gear. How is that fun??
  • BenjolaBenjola Member UncommonPosts: 843
    edited January 2016
    We can talk all we want but the anime porn kiddies only see bunny maid outfits, super model  stances and poses, inocent teenage looking pretty faces and jiggling racks.
    That's the hook.
    Reason will not prevail.

    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    Reasons why it won't be Archeage 2.0:

    1. The coding is solid.  Hacking/exploiting is not super easy like it was in Archeage.  The people that got the furthest ahead in Archeage did it through exploits, not money.

    2. There will not be any items in the AH that increase your chance of upgrading gear.  

    3. There is no level cap so you can just level up past people that spend tons of cash and beat them, even if their gear is better than yours.

    Furthermore they are reviewing the cash shop.  People are talking about it a lot so there's a decent chance it gets changed even further away from p2w.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,189
    The point about students loans being used in gaming gave me an awful start. Surely people are not that stupid nvm don't answer that. 

    I am always curious to know who these wallet warriors are and wondering how they can afford to spend like this and not see a vicious circle this type of spending creates and why they would repeat this spending in another game. Surely spending money like that once is enough or is the high of getting to the top via your credit card such a rush that you have an addiction to this. It confounds to be sure that people can be so careless with money and why is there a bottomless pit as far as funding goes. 

    I do understand that I am in no position to criticize how others spend their money and that people see value in different things but surely this type of spending cannot be a constant in their lives and at some point would they not realise what a waste it is and how ephemeral the results are. Why hasn't the bottom fallen out yet ?

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424
    edited January 2016
    I've told people for years since F2P became a thing that it would end up being this way...P2P is the only way to go, it's by far the cheapest. F2P is a marketing term, I've yet to play an MMO for free in over 20 years.

    F2P has nothing to do with wanting a long term game like EQ, DAOC, WoW, or FFXI.  ALL F2P games are cash grabs, make your money back as quickly as possible and get out before the next hyped F2P game comes out.  I can't blame companies for doing this, as it's very popular with players (for some reason), and they make much more money with a lot less risk and effort.  I can, however, blame the players.  We all keep paying $200 for a "founder's pack". Many of us pay these companies millions of dollars for P2W items.  As long as we, the players, keep doing so every game that comes out will be P2W.  We vote with our dollars, and players seem to like P2W cash shops.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited January 2016
    DMKano said:
    Reasons why it won't be Archeage 2.0:

    1. The coding is solid.  Hacking/exploiting is not super easy like it was in Archeage.  The people that got the furthest ahead in Archeage did it through exploits, not money.

    2. There will not be any items in the AH that increase your chance of upgrading gear.  

    3. There is no level cap so you can just level up past people that spend tons of cash and beat them, even if their gear is better than yours.

    Furthermore they are reviewing the cash shop.  People are talking about it a lot so there's a decent chance it gets changed even further away from p2w.


    1. There are many 3Rd party exploits(Russian servers have a major issue with speed and jumphack) for BD already, can't link them here due to rules of conduct of this site. BD is no better than any MMO, all of which are subject to hacks.


    2. We don't known yet how it will end up in the west, korean AH has such items, but then again Koreans have a completely different attitude towards cash shops. They see them as a normal part of gameplay, they know that if you spend more you gain more. 

    3. False - gear trumps levels

    1. Speed and jump hacks don't get you free Apex and housing or instant trade-pack turn-ins.

    Archeage was an exploitfest beyond any other and its the reason the game failed, not because of it's cash-shop.

    So far I've seen nothing coming close to the hacks and exploits that plagued Archeage and continue to plague it.

    2. We know for a fact there will not be items to increase the odds of upgrade because they announced it recently specifically.  They also said they're further reviewing the cash shop.

    3.  Even if gear is better, the fact is you can progress in-game in ways that people that just pay cash cannot is anti-pay-to-win.  

    And I'd need to see proof that someone in bought gear at level 50 could easily beat a level 59 with earned gear.  I really doubt it.

    In any case, all 3 of these things are significantly different (and better) than Archeage, and give hope that the game will not be Archeage 2.0.
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    Gravarg said:
    I've told people for years since F2P became a thing that it would end up being this way...P2P is the only way to go, it's by far the cheapest. F2P is a marketing term, I've yet to play an MMO for free in over 20 years.

    F2P has nothing to do with wanting a long term game like EQ, DAOC, WoW, or FFXI.  ALL F2P games are cash grabs, make your money back as quickly as possible and get out before the next hyped F2P game comes out.  I can't blame companies for doing this, as it's very popular with players (for some reason), and they make much more money with a lot less risk and effort.  I can, however, blame the players.  We all keep paying $200 for a "founder's pack". Many of us pay these companies millions of dollars for P2W items.  As long as we, the players, keep doing so every game that comes out will be P2W.  We vote with our dollars, and players seem to like P2W cash shops.
    It's not F2P though.  At least our version isn't.  It's B2P, like Guild Wars 2.  Most people don't complain about GW2's payment model.

    They have already mentioned differences in the cash shop for our version since it's B2P and they're further reviewing the cash shop.

    P2W is a major concern on reddit and the forums so it is hopeful they will make the cash shop even less p2w. 

    If you are concerned about it (and it's right to be concerned), I suggest joining the petitions on the forums and reddit.  Now is the time to voice your concern while the cash shop is still being reviewed before release.
  • RhygarthRhygarth Member UncommonPosts: 259
    Got to love these forums :-)

    if its FTP you moan
    if its BTP you moan
    if its PTW you moan
    if it has a sub you moan

    Devs have to make a ROI or no one will ever make another game be it mmo or single player.

  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    edited January 2016
    Gravarg said:

    F2P has nothing to do with wanting a long term game 
    I'd like to know just what game TODAY is a long term game... at best people stick with it a couple of months tops before hopping over to another game.  

    I doubt if anyone has played a SINGLE mmorpg out there for 6 months straight in 2015.  This means you've played NOTHING but said game for 6 months straight... that's long term, anything less is game hopping.

    What you did in vanilla WoW or EQ or whatever doesn't count when it's 2015 and you don't play the game no where near as much as you did back then.  Game hopping is all people do these days... follow the migration of players from one game to the next.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Pepeq said:
    Gravarg said:

    F2P has nothing to do with wanting a long term game 
    I'd like to know just what game TODAY is a long term game... at best people stick with it a couple of months tops before hopping over to another game.  

    I doubt if anyone has played a SINGLE mmorpg out there for 6 months straight in 2015.  This means you've played NOTHING but said game for 6 months straight... that's long term, anything less is game hopping.

    What you did in vanilla WoW or EQ or whatever doesn't count when it's 2015 and you don't play the game no where near as much as you did back then.  Game hopping is all people do these days... follow the migration of players from one game to the next.
    i have , played UO thru all of 2015 ,2014 ,2013 ,2012 .................................................................1997
  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    Which is why i'll be passing on BDO and why eastern games in general dont appeal to me.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,189
    I have to agree with Pepeq I have been guilty of game hopping myself. I stick perhaps to a game for about 3-4 months and it has nothing to do with how much I have paid for it in subscriptions or upfront purchases. I think I started game hopping after Dark Age of Camelot. I previously stuck to Everquest very long and even Anarchy Online but since Dark Age I have been game hopping with my longest stays in FFXI ,EQ 2,SWTOR,FFXIV  and WoW and frequent returns to City of Heroes/Villains. I may have missed a few other favourites but by and large my gaming spurts don't last very long.

    I cannot explain it. I am very enthused when I start playing but invariably some single player game or other hobby draws me away and wham I suddenly stop logging in I no longer wish to and I drop it like a hot potato. It's nothing to do with payment models or other considerations but I believe it has to do with being distracted by the plethora of games on offer. I want to try everything and I often never even reach end game before I have quit. I do feel guilty for my flighty behaviour almost like a butterfly in a garden of beautiful flowers I flit from flower to flower. It does create a pang in my heart especially when I read how long others play some game and how much they have achieved it makes me realise how destructive my own disloyalty has been to the genre.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Benjola said:
    snicol said:
     I enjoyed the beta, and i guess my point is so what if someone spends tons of dough to max out their character ingame... it makes zero difference to my play style...
    I'd say a big majority of MMO gamers, including me feel the same as you.... in a PVE game.
    In a PVP centric game ( this includes all korean MMOs published in the west ) not so much.
    Knowingly or not knowingly, we all play a game for one main reason, to win.
    That's the goal of a game of any kind.
    MMORPG have the added factor of a roleplay but we still play a roll of some kind of hero or a winner at something.
    In my 15 years of MMOs not once have a met someone roleplaying a loser.
    And of course where there are winners there are also losers.
    In a PVE MMORPG, every player is a winner, losers are the NPCs.
    Therefore, not many give a shit if someone bought his dream sword from RMT in a PVE game because that dude isn't competing against me, the mobs are.
    In a PVP game however you are in a direct competition with other players and any edge they got on you have to come from player skill in order for you to accept your defeat because nobody likes to lose at something that you payed for and it's supposed to entertain you.

    This is why open world PVP is never very popular and should be kept in arenas and on equal footing gear wise (think Guild Wars) or otherwise the idiots that bought their advantage will drive the normal players away in a short period of time.
    Open world PVP sounds great to some because it gives a sense of freedom that people lack in real life but it doesnt take long for human nature to take over and turn it into a frustraiting experience for all but few griefers and sociopaths that bought their power from the cash shop.




    You've just explained the very example of why PvP and MMORPG's do not mix.  MMORPG's are a role-playing experience centered on a journey.  There is no place in that experience for PvP.  PvP needs to stay in the FPS/MOBA genre.  The only reason it was incorporated into the MMORPG genre was greed and developer desire to maximize profits by tapping into that player base.  Little did they realize that by doing so they were ruining the future of MMORPG genre.
  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    Not sure why people keep saying it's an eastern thing, western games do it as well they just try to hide it.

    Anyway considering they where able to switch the model to B2P already makes it miles different and  far from Archeage  2.0 imho
  • BenjolaBenjola Member UncommonPosts: 843
    The only way I see BDO not becoming Archeage is if the majority  learned thier lesson from Archeage and goes for the 'wait and see' approach, as in, wait 3-6 months before you invest in the game, on top of moaning on official forums regulary warning the devs that P2W will not be tolerated.

    Chances of that happening though, especially the 'wait and see' approach I put on very slim to none.
    MMOs nowadays give a clear advantage to early starters, and making an esential feature limited ( real estate) like Archeage pretty much guarantees you a stampede of players come launch.

    As for 'there's not much hacking going on' statement , hackers wait for launch before they start full on exploits and you can't say for a fact that russian servers aren't infested with people replicating items like APEXes in Archeage, if they are being smart about it.
    Remember it took 2-3 months to discover that particular cheat in Archeage and it only got revealed because some players in the know couldn't keep their mouth shut but regardless if few players made a massive amount of ingame currency through hacking or wallet warrioring the fact is they took full advantage of a system that allows you to play in god mode and troll/gank/grief/controll a full server.


    I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Jacobin said:
    If you want to understand the design philosophy of Asian FTP games watch this presentation from GDC 2012 on $100 000 dollar whales:

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An


    PvP games that have obscene numbers of item tiers with +99 upgrades are a dead give away of pure P2W.

    The goal is to send players down an item upgrading rabbit hole where it is theoretically possible to spend an infinite amount of money yet never reach the cap.

    The goal is to make a profit in under 3 months where cash shop credit card warriors are competing in a sort of arms race for who will spend the most money to be the top pvp god as quickly as possible.

    Once the whale has spent thousands to be king of the hill, it is impossible for others to compete so the server dies. The servers then merge to keep the spending spree arms race going, or new servers open up to start up a whole new cash shop race to the top.

    Eventually the game gets too old, so a new one comes out with a different skin but is still based on the same cash2compete model (AA-->BDO).

    Players who just want to make an honest effort and grind their way through are actually just fodder content for the cash shop players to feel powerful. They are literally irrelevant to the game design since the whole thing is setup to implode within a few months.

    This is why I don't get how people can think that as long as they can spend 3 years grinding to get an item the cash shop guy gets instantly is not P2W. The entire time you are grinding you will be fighting people with superior credit card +99 gear. How is that fun??

    Another example of why MMORPGs and PvP do not mix.  This can go on all day.  The minute developers began implementing PvP as a more integral part of the game, Ie., OWPvP @ Lvl 30, was the minute MMORPGs began dying their horrible death.
  • cerulean2012cerulean2012 Member UncommonPosts: 492
    DMKano said:
    Reasons why it won't be Archeage 2.0:

    1. The coding is solid.  Hacking/exploiting is not super easy like it was in Archeage.  The people that got the furthest ahead in Archeage did it through exploits, not money.

    2. There will not be any items in the AH that increase your chance of upgrading gear.  

    3. There is no level cap so you can just level up past people that spend tons of cash and beat them, even if their gear is better than yours.

    Furthermore they are reviewing the cash shop.  People are talking about it a lot so there's a decent chance it gets changed even further away from p2w.


    1. There are many 3Rd party exploits(Russian servers have a major issue with speed and jumphack) for BD already, can't link them here due to rules of conduct of this site. BD is no better than any MMO, all of which are subject to hacks.


    2. We don't known yet how it will end up in the west, korean AH has such items, but then again Koreans have a completely different attitude towards cash shops. They see them as a normal part of gameplay, they know that if you spend more you gain more. 

    3. False - gear trumps levels

    1. Speed and jump hacks don't get you free Apex and housing or instant trade-pack turn-ins.

    Archeage was an exploitfest beyond any other and its the reason the game failed, not because of it's cash-shop.

    So far I've seen nothing coming close to the hacks and exploits that plagued Archeage and continue to plague it.

    2. We know for a fact there will not be items to increase the odds of upgrade because they announced it recently specifically.  They also said they're further reviewing the cash shop.

    3.  Even if gear is better, the fact is you can progress in-game in ways that people that just pay cash cannot is anti-pay-to-win.  

    And I'd need to see proof that someone in bought gear at level 50 could easily beat a level 59 with earned gear.  I really doubt it.

    In any case, all 3 of these things are significantly different (and better) than Archeage, and give hope that the game will not be Archeage 2.0.
    @HoldenHamlet, you seem to look forward to the game coming out and that is ok.

    1.  If you have played MMOs for awhile you will know that people will find ways to hack any game, so hack will happen and they could be more then just the spped/jumping ones already known.

    2.  They may have stated that now but whats to stop them from adding those items in say in 3-6 months?  Nothing really.

    3.  If there is a way to buy something from the shop that gives the person an advantage then it is pay-to-win.

    As for your proof of the 50 beating the 59, well let then game come out for a bit and it will happen.

    No this game is not Archeage.  But as with all heavily hyped games, anything that becomes a problem will be magnified 10 times or more.  So if BD doesn't get 5 million players, heck if it doesn't get 2 million it will be deemed a failure.  If people find ways to hack more then jumping/speed or gold sellers dominate the chat/mail or if bots run wild, well basically if anything happens then the hate train (not only on this site but others) will be out in force.

    I for one am not fond of the game.  Don't like the play style and to me the graphics just don't fit, they look good, but something is off with them (no it id not my video card).  Anyway I do not hate the game to the point where I will rip it apart, just wanted to comment on your post.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    DMKano said:
    Reasons why it won't be Archeage 2.0:

    1. The coding is solid.  Hacking/exploiting is not super easy like it was in Archeage.  The people that got the furthest ahead in Archeage did it through exploits, not money.

    2. There will not be any items in the AH that increase your chance of upgrading gear.  

    3. There is no level cap so you can just level up past people that spend tons of cash and beat them, even if their gear is better than yours.

    Furthermore they are reviewing the cash shop.  People are talking about it a lot so there's a decent chance it gets changed even further away from p2w.


    1. There are many 3Rd party exploits(Russian servers have a major issue with speed and jumphack) for BD already, can't link them here due to rules of conduct of this site. BD is no better than any MMO, all of which are subject to hacks.


    2. We don't known yet how it will end up in the west, korean AH has such items, but then again Koreans have a completely different attitude towards cash shops. They see them as a normal part of gameplay, they know that if you spend more you gain more. 

    3. False - gear trumps levels

    1. Speed and jump hacks don't get you free Apex and housing or instant trade-pack turn-ins.

    Archeage was an exploitfest beyond any other and its the reason the game failed, not because of it's cash-shop.

    So far I've seen nothing coming close to the hacks and exploits that plagued Archeage and continue to plague it.

    2. We know for a fact there will not be items to increase the odds of upgrade because they announced it recently specifically.  They also said they're further reviewing the cash shop.

    3.  Even if gear is better, the fact is you can progress in-game in ways that people that just pay cash cannot is anti-pay-to-win.  

    And I'd need to see proof that someone in bought gear at level 50 could easily beat a level 59 with earned gear.  I really doubt it.

    In any case, all 3 of these things are significantly different (and better) than Archeage, and give hope that the game will not be Archeage 2.0.
    I will only talk about 1st point : no AA is no longer plagued by bots or hackers. That has been rectified quite some time ago by Trion when they dumped gameguard and added their own server side security. Of course there are still some bots that pop up here and there but they get banned fast and then they come back with another f2p account. Please don't comment on a game you don't play and have no idea what is going on in it.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    DMKano said:
    Reasons why it won't be Archeage 2.0:

    1. The coding is solid.  Hacking/exploiting is not super easy like it was in Archeage.  The people that got the furthest ahead in Archeage did it through exploits, not money.

    2. There will not be any items in the AH that increase your chance of upgrading gear.  

    3. There is no level cap so you can just level up past people that spend tons of cash and beat them, even if their gear is better than yours.

    Furthermore they are reviewing the cash shop.  People are talking about it a lot so there's a decent chance it gets changed even further away from p2w.


    1. There are many 3Rd party exploits(Russian servers have a major issue with speed and jumphack) for BD already, can't link them here due to rules of conduct of this site. BD is no better than any MMO, all of which are subject to hacks.


    2. We don't known yet how it will end up in the west, korean AH has such items, but then again Koreans have a completely different attitude towards cash shops. They see them as a normal part of gameplay, they know that if you spend more you gain more. 

    3. False - gear trumps levels

    1. Speed and jump hacks don't get you free Apex and housing or instant trade-pack turn-ins.

    Archeage was an exploitfest beyond any other and its the reason the game failed, not because of it's cash-shop.

    So far I've seen nothing coming close to the hacks and exploits that plagued Archeage and continue to plague it.

    2. We know for a fact there will not be items to increase the odds of upgrade because they announced it recently specifically.  They also said they're further reviewing the cash shop.

    3.  Even if gear is better, the fact is you can progress in-game in ways that people that just pay cash cannot is anti-pay-to-win.  

    And I'd need to see proof that someone in bought gear at level 50 could easily beat a level 59 with earned gear.  I really doubt it.

    In any case, all 3 of these things are significantly different (and better) than Archeage, and give hope that the game will not be Archeage 2.0.
    I will only talk about 1st point : no AA is no longer plagued by bots or hackers. That has been rectified quite some time ago by Trion when they dumped gameguard and added their own server side security. Of course there are still some bots that pop up here and there but they get banned fast and then they come back with another f2p account. Please don't comment on a game you don't play and have no idea what is going on in it.
    Too little too late on dealing with the bots. They should have dealt with the problem when it cropped up instead of letting it run rampant and ruin the servers.
  • ErdaErda Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Probably won't touch this game even though certain aspects do appeal to me (housing!!).   The game does look beautiful.   I did enjoy ArcheAge but have to admit the game became very limiting after awhile.  I fell into the trap of buying stuff in the store and after one impulse purchase, shook my head at getting absolutely nothing (random boxes).  I actually felt relieved when I stopped subbing/playing AA.  At first it was exhilarating.  After a bit it became pure drudgery for me---feeling compelled to log on every day tending to animals, crops, etc.  No thanks.

    I don't have anything against cash shops but have learned to use them sparingly.  I'll purchase a cool looking mount or perhaps more inventory space.  Extra character slots, etc.   I'm eyeing BDO cautiously and will jump in only if it has great reviews and isn't too limiting on what you can do in a play session.  Meanwhile I'm happily subbing to ESO and enjoying my stay there the second time around.
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