sports to be one of the few things life offers that can give us a level playing field.
Sports being fair? hehehe
I give up.
BDO is an evil game by an evil company.
All hail Western sub only, cash shop free, everyone is equal mmos that focus on fairness and no advantage outside of player "skill."
They don't exist, but who cares, forums are where it is at!
I think the complaints are largely overblown, but even if games aren't balanced it is a matter of to what degree are they imbalanced and whether that facilitates a p2w environment.
Even in Western sub-based games like WoW people buy gold from gold sellers to "p2w", so I think bringing that into the game is in some ways better for players since in theory there is less motivation to use dodgy gold sellers if you can buy stuff in game with cash.
However, I can't help but feel that extreme power scaling and gear disparity fuels demand for that kind of behavior and is ultimately a negative for the game.
As I've stated, in most Western games the best gear for pvp is BOP and obtainable through non-RNG means. This makes the barrier of entry not to high for new players to come in and replace those who leave through general attrition.
The MMO that best represents this is GW2. Maybe you don't like it for one of a hundred reasons, but it still has competitive pvp all the time in the upper WvW tiers. The low gear barrier and bolstering mechanics allow anyone to jump in and make a contribution since a fully geared character is only around 5-10% stronger than someone in easily obtainable exotic tier. Nobody can 3v1 and win without even taking damage like in BDO.
Yes open world games have other imbalances such as zergs, but recruiting, diplomacy and organizing a large group of people is a form of social skill that is unique to MMOs. Its not like you can just give the devs $100 and an army will show up.
You keep going to arena vs open world which is missing the point. Crazy RNG gear scaling that can easily be influenced by simple cash shop items ruins the integrity of both systems.
Obviously an MMO will not be 100% fair, but its not a 1 or 0 scale. There are degrees of unfairness that the devs have complete control over that show whether they actually care about long term sustainability vs. a quick ROI and empty servers.
As I've stated, in most Western games the best gear for pvp is BOP and obtainable through non-RNG means. This makes the barrier of entry not to high for new players to come in and replace those who leave through general attrition.
The MMO that best represents this is GW2. Maybe you don't like it for one of a hundred reasons, but it still has competitive pvp all the time in the upper WvW tiers. The low gear barrier and bolstering mechanics allow anyone to jump in and make a contribution since a fully geared character is only around 5-10% stronger than someone in easily obtainable exotic tier. Nobody can 3v1 and win without even taking damage like in BDO.
Yes open world games have other imbalances such as zergs, but recruiting, diplomacy and organizing a large group of people is a form of social skill that is unique to MMOs. Its not like you can just give the devs $100 and an army will show up.
You keep going to arena vs open world which is missing the point. Crazy RNG gear scaling that can easily be influenced by simple cash shop items ruins the integrity of both systems.
Obviously an MMO will not be 100% fair, but its not a 1 or 0 scale. There are degrees of unfairness that the devs have complete control over that show whether they actually care about long term sustainability vs. a quick ROI and empty servers.
Am I correct in my assumptions about your preferences?
Gear: BOP, non-RNG, no crazy Scaling, no Casino system.
Level & Abilities: Hard cap that anyone can reach relatively easily.
Time Sinks: Beyond initial investment, not much ongoing.
With these come a lack of importance for crafting, economy, grinding or basically doing anything outside of PVP for PVP's sake.
Either join the Zerg in WvW and look for "competitive" play or sPVP and remove all variables beyond skill and class balance issues.
Basically you don't like KR mmos or ones that allow for vertical growth for those that put in XYZ. Totally get that.
However, they've addressed some of your issues and you seem to refuse to accept their word.
Not sure what the point is to the discussion. "Do this!" "No problem" "I don't believe you!"
I believe NA/EU will have a lvl 50 cap and +15 gear at launch. Anyone that is relatively invested will reach that.
They've already said they will be looking into the gear scaling issue when it comes to NA/EU as it will be some time before that content is added.
They've also provided their plan for the cash shop and it looks pretty decent.
None of us have a time machine so it's either believe them or don't. If you believe they are liars just because KR/AA. Not sure what else to say.
You like X, BDO isn't X. I enjoyed GW2 for a bit but found the system boring and moved on. That's gaming for you.
Interesting you enjoyed DAoC and are backing Crowfall as the first allowed for some decent power gap and CF doesn't look to be getting away from that on top of their cash shop with P2W potential.
I don't believe Daum because of their management history in other regions. Everything they have even done has been blatantly P2W. They are just telling NA/EU what we want to hear and it seems people are either naive or desperate enough to believe them.
I am sure Pearl Abyss witnessed first hand just how much cash their buddies at XLGames raked in after telling NA/EU "no tricks, no traps" then proceeding to add more and more P2W patch after patch. In the investors meeting all they probably had to do was say they just need to pretend NA/EU is special for a while then its back to business as usual a few patches in.
I don't believe Daum because of their management history in other regions. Everything they have even done has been blatantly P2W. They are just telling NA/EU what we want to hear and it seems people are either naive or desperate enough to believe them.
I am sure Pearl Abyss witnessed first hand just how much cash their buddies at XLGames raked in after telling NA/EU "no tricks, no traps" then proceeding to add more and more P2W patch after patch.
Archeage made money here (and is probably still making money), but not as much as it could have.
Companies actually do want to maximise profits, and usually they're smart enough to realize different products appeal to different markets.
Regardless of what Daum did with other games, I find it hard to believe they are looking the catostrophic western release of Archeage and saying to themselves, "Man, we really should do that with our game! Wait until we unleash our master plan that will result in population drops and server merges!"
I don't believe Daum because of their management history in other regions. Everything they have even done has been blatantly P2W. They are just telling NA/EU what we want to hear and it seems people are either naive or desperate enough to believe them.
I am sure Pearl Abyss witnessed first hand just how much cash their buddies at XLGames raked in after telling NA/EU "no tricks, no traps" then proceeding to add more and more P2W patch after patch. In the investors meeting all they probably had to do was say they just need to pretend NA/EU is special for a while then its back to business as usual a few patches in.
Daum only ever published in KR until now, which is a notoriously P2W friendly region. It's a Korean company with a Korean focus.
Please remember that BDO has been licensed to external companies in RU and JP - Daum does not control their business model.
Daum EU has been set up explicitely for the reason you mention. They did not want to go with existing EU publishers because of fears of how their MMO would be received, given the current trends among gamers and the immense criticism on ArcheAge (reportedly Nexon EU and Gameforge were in talks with Daum to publish BDO here).
Daum EU is also staffed almost exclusively by non-Koreans (mostly Europeans), which also call the shots to a large degree (at least where licensing is not concerned).
Of course, you can go in with a pessimistic view and declare the game dead before it launches, but i'd give it a year to see where it ends up. I think it will surprise people in a positive way (aside from the fact that there's nearly 200k preorders without any marketing for the game whatsoever outside of a few posts on social media).
I don't believe Daum because of their management history in other regions. Everything they have even done has been blatantly P2W. They are just telling NA/EU what we want to hear and it seems people are either naive or desperate enough to believe them.
I am sure Pearl Abyss witnessed first hand just how much cash their buddies at XLGames raked in after telling NA/EU "no tricks, no traps" then proceeding to add more and more P2W patch after patch. In the investors meeting all they probably had to do was say they just need to pretend NA/EU is special for a while then its back to business as usual a few patches in.
Issue I see with your view is they aren't tricking or hiding anything. KR games are known to be heavy on the cash shop. Why wouldn't they be as well in that market. Doesn't mean they are liars nor will radically change the pay model in a month or two. Time will tell of course, but it most likely is going to be a good while until they'd even be able to adopt the KR version's model as there won't be any crazy scaling at launch.
Daum EU has been set up explicitely for the reason you mention. They did not want to go with existing EU publishers because of fears of how their MMO would be received, given the current trends among gamers and the immense criticism on ArcheAge.
A Western company with western employees doing the localization means absolutely nothing -- have you heard of Trion? They even had a good reputation and a fairly non-P2W management history yet it didn't matter at all.
The other obvious point is that entire game is completely designed around the cash shop. RNG casino crafting upgrades, crazy gear scaling, pvp endgame and leaderboards are all indicative of the typical Asian race to the top then implosion quick ROI scheme.
They aern't going to totally redesign the game. It will follow the same patch path as Korea and Russia with progressively more gear scaling and P2W cash shop items.
Daum EU has been set up explicitely for the reason you mention. They did not want to go with existing EU publishers because of fears of how their MMO would be received, given the current trends among gamers and the immense criticism on ArcheAge.
A Western company with western employees doing the localization means absolutely nothing -- have you heard of Trion? They even had a good reputation and a fairly non-P2W management history yet it didn't matter at all.
The other obvious point is that entire game is completely designed around the cash shop. RNG casino crafting upgrades, crazy gear scaling, pvp endgame and leaderboards are all indicative of the typical Asian race to the top then implosion quick ROI scheme.
They aern't going to totally redesign the game. It will follow the same patch path as Korea and Russia with progressively more gear scaling and P2W cash shop items.
So now that we've all come to agreement that BDO is going to be a complete P2W disaster, what do we do?
Wait for all of the naive people who are desperately clinging to the non-P2W fantasy that Daum is selling to have their dreams shattered, then rally the mob to destroy Daum's reputation and make it known that this cash grabbing trash will not be tolerated in NA/EU.
its not archeage 2.0. archeage was f2p. this is b2p. the list goes on.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
So now that we've all come to agreement that BDO is going to be a complete P2W disaster, what do we do?
Wait for all of the naive people who are desperately clinging to the non-P2W fantasy that Daum is selling to have their dreams shattered, then rally the mob to destroy Daum's reputation and make it known that this cash grabbing trash will not be tolerated in NA/EU.
Really don't see many naive folks supporting it around here. Most seem to be aware that it could go down a dark road in the future but until that happens, it hasn't. Enjoy it while it lasts like pretty much any other game that has come before.
Seems more naive to believe that you are wiser than the rest and some how are going to make a difference.
If BDO becomes AA 2.0, people will do the same they did with AA. 100% will leave and the game will be closed down immediately...
The exact reason why Asian cash grabs keep getting vomited onto the western market.
Or any other mmorpg ever.
I've yet to play one in the last 20+ years that didn't sooner or later do something radical to run fans off.
UO, EQ, DAoC, SWG, WoW to name a few rather popular ones and all from the West. Then there are GW2, ESO, WS, SWTOR changing their pay model which they'd never do...
The idea that a company is going to make a game that has guaranteed staying power and will never do anything to put fan trust into question is naive.
Crowfall has done this and they haven't even launched yet.
Regardless of how I feel about the games listed, people still play them all. Just like BDO and AA and insert whatever else that running which is like 99% of popular mmos. WAR & SWG are two of the few that actually closed shop beyond really early ones that simply fell off the map.
It's a simple fact that there are fans for pretty much everything and you can hate on XYZ all you want but it won't change a thing. Don't support them, but bad mouthing the game or talking down to fans is pretty lame and I always wonder what is going on in the haters world that they have so much boiling that they need to go on and on about something they don't like nor will ever play. Makes little sense beyond having some sort of hero complex. We don't need saving.
This is the nature of Korean MMOs. It'll be another archeage if and when the publisher allows players to massively profit from exploits without doing a thing about it. Trion made Archeage into what it was, which is pretty impressive given they were just the publisher.
The people claiming no PVE are the twits that are like "hurr durr I need exclamation points to see every quest". A lot of pve based content in the game is locked behind the social system where you need to build a relationship with the npcs to unlock further quests and the like.
Daum EU has been set up explicitely for the reason you mention. They did not want to go with existing EU publishers because of fears of how their MMO would be received, given the current trends among gamers and the immense criticism on ArcheAge.
A Western company with western employees doing the localization means absolutely nothing -- have you heard of Trion? They even had a good reputation and a fairly non-P2W management history yet it didn't matter at all.
The other obvious point is that entire game is completely designed around the cash shop. RNG casino crafting upgrades, crazy gear scaling, pvp endgame and leaderboards are all indicative of the typical Asian race to the top then implosion quick ROI scheme.
They aern't going to totally redesign the game. It will follow the same patch path as Korea and Russia with progressively more gear scaling and P2W cash shop items.
You'll still have to explain your earlier comment, on how 'Daum messed up in other regions'.
Daum was only active in Korea untill now, not in other regions. What exactly did you base that comment on?
From all the comments in this thread at least it seems like all you know about BDO comes from third-hand knowledge about people who heard from other people what the game was like when they played it for 15 minutes.
Up to now, with the facts available to us, i don't see how BDO is any more pay to win than the likes of WoW or any other western B2P or P2P MMO out right now. Everything everyone here is saying so far is based on 'i believe that x or y will happen' with no arguments supporting it other than 'Trion did it'.
Yes, Daum EU may switch it up later, but as if right now, the stuff they announced doesn't indicate any problems in the immediate future. It's very much unlike Trion, which announced their 'p2w' plans far in advance of their release of AA.
Maybe later, you can say 'i told you so', but for now, it's 'talking out of your ass'.
The evidence is Daum/Pearl Abyss' own management history, and the P2W path that nearly every MMO ported over from Asia has followed.
A few of you keep hailing Daum as some special snowflake that will be different than all of the others simply because they said so in their marketing copy. You are doing just as much speculation as I am when you claim they can be trusted.
Maybe they will be that one outlier company from Asian that does things differently, but with only 200k pre-orders for all of NA/EU I highly doubt it.
The game is setup in such a way that it is so easy to add an upgrade % increase scroll to the cash shop and make them instant millionaires that it will be next to impossible for them to resist even if half the population quits.
The evidence is Daum/Pearl Abyss' own management history, and the P2W path that nearly every MMO ported over from Asia has followed.
A few of you keep hailing Daum as some special snowflake that will be different than all of the others simply because they said so in their marketing copy. You are doing just as much speculation as I am when you claim they can be trusted.
Maybe they will be that one outlier company from Asian that does things differently, but with only 200k pre-orders for all of NA/EU I highly doubt it.
The game is setup in such a way that it is so easy to add an upgrade % increase scroll to the cash shop and make them instant millionaires that it will be next to impossible for them to resist even if half the population quits.
Thanks for being my savior and telling me something I've already considered.
Note, I did watch the GDC video which is very interesting and I'm glad to see someone break it down who works in the business. In my head I was like, "these motha!@#%&;$*". Like, all those ways they monetize the game is absolutely ridiculous! I love his example of an epic +14 sword that is destroyed if you failed the +15 enchantment, but you can buy a item for real life money that guarantees your enchantment's success.
I'm going to enjoy what time I have with Black Desert Online. Maybe it remains B2P with a fair cash shop(*cough*). Monetizing our favorite hobby in the west is becoming more common and it's not just with massive multiplayer online roleplaying games. We complained for the longest time about subscriptions and now we have so many different ways to "pay". And some of those ways that we pay jeopardizes the experience.
Hey, we got what we want right? Free-to-play, cash shops, and buy-to-play. Nothing is ever free; and that's why I always like the monthly $10 or $15 to entry.
Still...I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really want to play Black Desert Online.
The people claiming no PVE are the twits that are like "hurr durr I need exclamation points to see every quest". A lot of pve based content in the game is locked behind the social system where you need to build a relationship with the npcs to unlock further quests and the like.
That's true, and anyone claiming it has no PvE focus is talking complete rubbish. I've played it with a couple of characters to max level, for months, and there is a huge amount of PvE to be had. It's always a claim trumpeted around by PvP focused players who desire a completely PvP focused game, every time a new MMO comes along.
BDO does have a big guild versus guild focus at endgame (the real focus of the PvP) but there is also just hundreds of hours of PvE to be played, building relationships, developing your houses, getting better gear, crafting, exploring, breeding and developing your horses, fighting, building, fishing, trading... it's a massive, immersive world with a great emphasis on bringing your characters up, as a family, and expanding their empire across the land and sea. It has its limitations, but it's a very fun game that will keep PvE players busy for a long time.
- PVE crowd (dungeoneers and raiders) This is probably the least lucrative group for game companies because in order to skin this particular group alive you need frequent content development which costs a lot and the only income you get from this group (apart from a sub) is from big expansions which is what, 30 bucks every 6 months? On top of that, raid items need to be of highest quality so that is in direct conflict with the Crafter crowd which is more lucrative group now with this new system. As you can imagine,PVE crowd is getting more and more obsolete and that's why we don't see many if at all dungeons and raids in these new MMOs.
Welcome to the true 3rd generation MMOs...
I think us PvE players are looking in the wrong places for our fix these days. The old style raiding MMOs are long dead... it is not a sustainable business model, like you said. I think PVE players are better off simply finding a game in which the gameplay as actually fun, and therefore repetition is not as bad, as opposed to one where we hope the devs will churn out new content fast enough.
I said it in another post and I'll say it again here, the online co-op style is becoming the go-to place for PVE players, in my opinion. I am hoping The Division captivates me the way Destiny did for a while, but I would certainly be willing to throw money at a fantasy themed game in the same style. Something like Bloodborne with a bigger focus on playing with friends would make obscene amounts of money. This is where I see the genre, hopefully, going.
Also there is always the hope some devs will pull their heads out of their ass and make a sandbox MMORPG that isn't 100% PVP focused, but I doubt it. I like full loot open PVP as much as the next guy, but MMORPGs simply cannot, for my money (and my friends) compete with the likes of ARK, DayZ, Rust, etc. But with the recent drama with Repopulation and Divergence, I don't see that happening.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
The evidence is Daum/Pearl Abyss' own management history, and the P2W path that nearly every MMO ported over from Asia has followed.
I understand what you are saying, but the way BDO is set up means the potential for "p2w" is much less than in Archage, and really, all of this pales in comparison to the massive and blatant p2w in Star Citizen, which is being made by a Western company and is light-years more p2w than BDO or AA even before it has even been made.
So I think if you are serious about campaigning against p2w, you should warp over to the SC threads and set your blasters on to that game, because the potential p2w element in BDO is nothing compared to what SC is pulling.
The evidence is Daum/Pearl Abyss' own management history, and the P2W path that nearly every MMO ported over from Asia has followed.
I understand what you are saying, but the way BDO is set up means the potential for "p2w" is much less than in Archage, and really, all of this pales in comparison to the massive and blatant p2w in Star Citizen, which is being made by a Western company and is light-years more p2w than BDO or AA even before it has even been made.
So I think if you are serious about campaigning against p2w, you should warp over to the SC threads and set your blasters on to that game, because the potential p2w element in BDO is nothing compared to what SC is pulling.
Or maybe he could focus on Crowfall that he backed as they already have P2W features and I see no sign of them not going further down that road in the future.
I'm sure he has some excuse that it isn't crazy gear grind casinos with huge power differences, but P2W is P2W if he's going to get up on a soapbox about a game he isn't even going to play.
Comments
Even in Western sub-based games like WoW people buy gold from gold sellers to "p2w", so I think bringing that into the game is in some ways better for players since in theory there is less motivation to use dodgy gold sellers if you can buy stuff in game with cash.
However, I can't help but feel that extreme power scaling and gear disparity fuels demand for that kind of behavior and is ultimately a negative for the game.
The MMO that best represents this is GW2. Maybe you don't like it for one of a hundred reasons, but it still has competitive pvp all the time in the upper WvW tiers. The low gear barrier and bolstering mechanics allow anyone to jump in and make a contribution since a fully geared character is only around 5-10% stronger than someone in easily obtainable exotic tier. Nobody can 3v1 and win without even taking damage like in BDO.
Yes open world games have other imbalances such as zergs, but recruiting, diplomacy and organizing a large group of people is a form of social skill that is unique to MMOs. Its not like you can just give the devs $100 and an army will show up.
You keep going to arena vs open world which is missing the point. Crazy RNG gear scaling that can easily be influenced by simple cash shop items ruins the integrity of both systems.
Obviously an MMO will not be 100% fair, but its not a 1 or 0 scale. There are degrees of unfairness that the devs have complete control over that show whether they actually care about long term sustainability vs. a quick ROI and empty servers.
- Gear: BOP, non-RNG, no crazy Scaling, no Casino system.
- Level & Abilities: Hard cap that anyone can reach relatively easily.
- Time Sinks: Beyond initial investment, not much ongoing.
With these come a lack of importance for crafting, economy, grinding or basically doing anything outside of PVP for PVP's sake.Either join the Zerg in WvW and look for "competitive" play or sPVP and remove all variables beyond skill and class balance issues.
Basically you don't like KR mmos or ones that allow for vertical growth for those that put in XYZ. Totally get that.
However, they've addressed some of your issues and you seem to refuse to accept their word.
Not sure what the point is to the discussion. "Do this!" "No problem" "I don't believe you!"
I believe NA/EU will have a lvl 50 cap and +15 gear at launch. Anyone that is relatively invested will reach that.
They've already said they will be looking into the gear scaling issue when it comes to NA/EU as it will be some time before that content is added.
They've also provided their plan for the cash shop and it looks pretty decent.
None of us have a time machine so it's either believe them or don't. If you believe they are liars just because KR/AA. Not sure what else to say.
You like X, BDO isn't X. I enjoyed GW2 for a bit but found the system boring and moved on. That's gaming for you.
Interesting you enjoyed DAoC and are backing Crowfall as the first allowed for some decent power gap and CF doesn't look to be getting away from that on top of their cash shop with P2W potential.
I am sure Pearl Abyss witnessed first hand just how much cash their buddies at XLGames raked in after telling NA/EU "no tricks, no traps" then proceeding to add more and more P2W patch after patch. In the investors meeting all they probably had to do was say they just need to pretend NA/EU is special for a while then its back to business as usual a few patches in.
Companies actually do want to maximise profits, and usually they're smart enough to realize different products appeal to different markets.
Regardless of what Daum did with other games, I find it hard to believe they are looking the catostrophic western release of Archeage and saying to themselves, "Man, we really should do that with our game! Wait until we unleash our master plan that will result in population drops and server merges!"
Please remember that BDO has been licensed to external companies in RU and JP - Daum does not control their business model.
Daum EU has been set up explicitely for the reason you mention. They did not want to go with existing EU publishers because of fears of how their MMO would be received, given the current trends among gamers and the immense criticism on ArcheAge (reportedly Nexon EU and Gameforge were in talks with Daum to publish BDO here).
Daum EU is also staffed almost exclusively by non-Koreans (mostly Europeans), which also call the shots to a large degree (at least where licensing is not concerned).
Of course, you can go in with a pessimistic view and declare the game dead before it launches, but i'd give it a year to see where it ends up. I think it will surprise people in a positive way (aside from the fact that there's nearly 200k preorders without any marketing for the game whatsoever outside of a few posts on social media).
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
The other obvious point is that entire game is completely designed around the cash shop. RNG casino crafting upgrades, crazy gear scaling, pvp endgame and leaderboards are all indicative of the typical Asian race to the top then implosion quick ROI scheme.
They aern't going to totally redesign the game. It will follow the same patch path as Korea and Russia with progressively more gear scaling and P2W cash shop items.
Again watch this video from the R2Games CEO to see this all explained in detail: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An
Seems more naive to believe that you are wiser than the rest and some how are going to make a difference.
If BDO becomes AA 2.0, people will do the same they did with AA. 100% will leave and the game will be closed down immediately...
I've yet to play one in the last 20+ years that didn't sooner or later do something radical to run fans off.
UO, EQ, DAoC, SWG, WoW to name a few rather popular ones and all from the West. Then there are GW2, ESO, WS, SWTOR changing their pay model which they'd never do...
The idea that a company is going to make a game that has guaranteed staying power and will never do anything to put fan trust into question is naive.
Crowfall has done this and they haven't even launched yet.
Regardless of how I feel about the games listed, people still play them all. Just like BDO and AA and insert whatever else that running which is like 99% of popular mmos. WAR & SWG are two of the few that actually closed shop beyond really early ones that simply fell off the map.
It's a simple fact that there are fans for pretty much everything and you can hate on XYZ all you want but it won't change a thing. Don't support them, but bad mouthing the game or talking down to fans is pretty lame and I always wonder what is going on in the haters world that they have so much boiling that they need to go on and on about something they don't like nor will ever play. Makes little sense beyond having some sort of hero complex. We don't need saving.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Daum was only active in Korea untill now, not in other regions. What exactly did you base that comment on?
From all the comments in this thread at least it seems like all you know about BDO comes from third-hand knowledge about people who heard from other people what the game was like when they played it for 15 minutes.
Up to now, with the facts available to us, i don't see how BDO is any more pay to win than the likes of WoW or any other western B2P or P2P MMO out right now. Everything everyone here is saying so far is based on 'i believe that x or y will happen' with no arguments supporting it other than 'Trion did it'.
Yes, Daum EU may switch it up later, but as if right now, the stuff they announced doesn't indicate any problems in the immediate future. It's very much unlike Trion, which announced their 'p2w' plans far in advance of their release of AA.
Maybe later, you can say 'i told you so', but for now, it's 'talking out of your ass'.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
A few of you keep hailing Daum as some special snowflake that will be different than all of the others simply because they said so in their marketing copy. You are doing just as much speculation as I am when you claim they can be trusted.
Maybe they will be that one outlier company from Asian that does things differently, but with only 200k pre-orders for all of NA/EU I highly doubt it.
The game is setup in such a way that it is so easy to add an upgrade % increase scroll to the cash shop and make them instant millionaires that it will be next to impossible for them to resist even if half the population quits.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Note, I did watch the GDC video which is very interesting and I'm glad to see someone break it down who works in the business. In my head I was like, "these motha!@#%&;$*". Like, all those ways they monetize the game is absolutely ridiculous! I love his example of an epic +14 sword that is destroyed if you failed the +15 enchantment, but you can buy a item for real life money that guarantees your enchantment's success.
I'm going to enjoy what time I have with Black Desert Online. Maybe it remains B2P with a fair cash shop(*cough*). Monetizing our favorite hobby in the west is becoming more common and it's not just with massive multiplayer online roleplaying games. We complained for the longest time about subscriptions and now we have so many different ways to "pay". And some of those ways that we pay jeopardizes the experience.
Hey, we got what we want right? Free-to-play, cash shops, and buy-to-play. Nothing is ever free; and that's why I always like the monthly $10 or $15 to entry.
Still...I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really want to play Black Desert Online.
BDO does have a big guild versus guild focus at endgame (the real focus of the PvP) but there is also just hundreds of hours of PvE to be played, building relationships, developing your houses, getting better gear, crafting, exploring, breeding and developing your horses, fighting, building, fishing, trading... it's a massive, immersive world with a great emphasis on bringing your characters up, as a family, and expanding their empire across the land and sea. It has its limitations, but it's a very fun game that will keep PvE players busy for a long time.
I said it in another post and I'll say it again here, the online co-op style is becoming the go-to place for PVE players, in my opinion. I am hoping The Division captivates me the way Destiny did for a while, but I would certainly be willing to throw money at a fantasy themed game in the same style. Something like Bloodborne with a bigger focus on playing with friends would make obscene amounts of money. This is where I see the genre, hopefully, going.
Also there is always the hope some devs will pull their heads out of their ass and make a sandbox MMORPG that isn't 100% PVP focused, but I doubt it. I like full loot open PVP as much as the next guy, but MMORPGs simply cannot, for my money (and my friends) compete with the likes of ARK, DayZ, Rust, etc. But with the recent drama with Repopulation and Divergence, I don't see that happening.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
So I think if you are serious about campaigning against p2w, you should warp over to the SC threads and set your blasters on to that game, because the potential p2w element in BDO is nothing compared to what SC is pulling.
I'm sure he has some excuse that it isn't crazy gear grind casinos with huge power differences, but P2W is P2W if he's going to get up on a soapbox about a game he isn't even going to play.