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How is FFXIV A Realm Reborn

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  • Froggie85Froggie85 Member UncommonPosts: 221
    What's so odd? I don't need to play it to know its shit. My brother and many of my old FC still play. I can see their streams and talk to them. I don't do weekends any more because i am done with the game.

    They promised horizontal progression and delivered nothing. That's when i decided to not give them any more money or bother logging in even when it is free.

    • Are you disputing the fact that the combat is repeating a rotation?
    • Are you disputing the boss fights are synchronized rope jumping?
    • Are you disputing the fights are so tightly optimized that recently they fucked up and you could not beat a DPS check even with highest gear and weapons and they had to do a patch?

    I am very well informed about the game my friend. Don't worry about me.

    PS: I can sit next to my brother all day and watch him play. We live in the same house as we run a company together.
    I just have to ask, what (MMORPG or turn based ) combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    All of them revolve around rotations, but some are better than others. Managing Resources and procs are what make it more interesting. 
    Oy and thats what this game does eh'.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • Froggie85Froggie85 Member UncommonPosts: 221
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    Because you played it, we forgot. Good one mate. 

    You never answered their question though mate.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Mandodo69 said:
    But, you only gave them money once, this you have said mate. I am not disputing anything. I think the game is so-so. Not too good and not too bad.

    Also mate, you don't do weekends anymore because the free weekends now have restrictions, ie you have to have been subbed between this time and that.

    Maybe that's why you a little sour mate. No more free weekends to exploit.
    Honestly, i did not even know they added that restriction for free weekends. I only heard that you lose your house if you don't subscribe. That probably was the final straw for me.

    I am not sour, i was hoping to keep up if the game eventually gets good. But since the last patches where everyone hoped for horizontal progression i have no more hope for this game.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    edited January 2016
    Mandodo69 said:
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    Because you played it, we forgot. Good one mate. 

    You never answered their question though mate.
    I gave more than a few examples of combat that does not revolve around rotations and boss fights not revolving around a repetition. If you don't understand it then i am sorry. I think it was in very understandable and plain English.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • Froggie85Froggie85 Member UncommonPosts: 221
    Mandodo69 said:
    But, you only gave them money once, this you have said mate. I am not disputing anything. I think the game is so-so. Not too good and not too bad.

    Also mate, you don't do weekends anymore because the free weekends now have restrictions, ie you have to have been subbed between this time and that.

    Maybe that's why you a little sour mate. No more free weekends to exploit.
    Honestly, i did not even know they added that restriction for free weekends. I only heard that you lose your house if you don't subscribe. That probably was the final straw for me.

    I am not sour, i was hoping to keep up if the game eventually gets good. But since the last patches where everyone hoped for horizontal progression i have no more hope for this game.
    The free weekend restrictions were in place almost a year before we heard about housing demolition.
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    Mandodo69 said:
    What's so odd? I don't need to play it to know its shit. My brother and many of my old FC still play. I can see their streams and talk to them. I don't do weekends any more because i am done with the game.

    They promised horizontal progression and delivered nothing. That's when i decided to not give them any more money or bother logging in even when it is free.

    • Are you disputing the fact that the combat is repeating a rotation?
    • Are you disputing the boss fights are synchronized rope jumping?
    • Are you disputing the fights are so tightly optimized that recently they fucked up and you could not beat a DPS check even with highest gear and weapons and they had to do a patch?

    I am very well informed about the game my friend. Don't worry about me.

    PS: I can sit next to my brother all day and watch him play. We live in the same house as we run a company together.
    I just have to ask, what (MMORPG or turn based ) combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    All of them revolve around rotations, but some are better than others. Managing Resources and procs are what make it more interesting. 
    Oy and thats what this game does eh'.
    That's what this game is lacking. Any meaningful character customization that changes playstyle. Not a single piece of gear that has an interesting proc. Your PLD plays exactly like mine. Resources are streamlined to the point of barely needing to worry about it. They have the opportunity to add interesting materia but instead it's just straight stat increases. Chocobos have more meaningful customization than the player character. 
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Mandodo69 said:
    Mandodo69 said:
    But, you only gave them money once, this you have said mate. I am not disputing anything. I think the game is so-so. Not too good and not too bad.

    Also mate, you don't do weekends anymore because the free weekends now have restrictions, ie you have to have been subbed between this time and that.

    Maybe that's why you a little sour mate. No more free weekends to exploit.
    Honestly, i did not even know they added that restriction for free weekends. I only heard that you lose your house if you don't subscribe. That probably was the final straw for me.

    I am not sour, i was hoping to keep up if the game eventually gets good. But since the last patches where everyone hoped for horizontal progression i have no more hope for this game.
    The free weekend restrictions were in place almost a year before we heard about housing demolition.
    So? I said i did not hear about it or i forgot or was not interested. I don't really care much for the game any more. I keep up with the development through the FC (since they also play in other games) and my brother. That is all in need.

    Does that satisfy your curiosity?
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • Froggie85Froggie85 Member UncommonPosts: 221
    Mandodo69 said:
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    Because you played it, we forgot. Good one mate. 

    You never answered their question though mate.
    I gave more than a few examples of combat that does not revolve around rotations and boss fights not revolving around a repetition. If you don't understand it then i am sorry. I think it was in very understandable and plain English.
    Well to be fair it does have procs and stuff like that. Like I said not too bad, not too good. It's average at best.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Mandodo69 said:
    Mandodo69 said:
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    Because you played it, we forgot. Good one mate. 

    You never answered their question though mate.
    I gave more than a few examples of combat that does not revolve around rotations and boss fights not revolving around a repetition. If you don't understand it then i am sorry. I think it was in very understandable and plain English.
    Well to be fair it does have procs and stuff like that. Like I said not too bad, not too good. It's average at best.
    So i did answer the question, then why make a post claiming i never answered it? 

    /smh
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    I can't say I played many that had "good" combat... Simply because as far back as I can remember, the most efficient way to play has always been learning the most effective combination of skills. As an example, as a ranger or typical ranged fighter you want to use essentially the same rotation of skills in a fight, in every game that features this type of combat. A sneak attack (usually high initial damage).. a snare, a debuff, a dot and then a high damage strike, rinse and repeat. It was like that in SWG it was like that in just about everything I've seen after.

    Sure some games throw curve balls now and then, or add extra layers of knowledge needed (damage/armor types) but for the most part they all revolve around patterns at the core (similar ones to boot, like my example above). Hence the question.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Froggie85Froggie85 Member UncommonPosts: 221
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    I can't say I played many that had "good" combat... Simply because as far back as I can remember, the most efficient way to play has always been learning the most effective combination of skills. As an example, as a ranger or typical ranged fighter you want to use essentially the same rotation of skills in a fight, in every game that features this type of combat. A sneak attack (usually high initial damage).. a snare, a debuff, a dot and then a high damage strike, rinse and repeat. It was like that in SWG it was like that in just about everything I've seen after.

    Sure some games throw curve balls now and then, or add extra layers of knowledge needed (damage/armor types) but for the most part they all revolve around patterns at the core (similar ones to boot, like my example above). Hence the question.
    Same could be said with offline single player games too. But I agree.

    MrSnuffles wants more and I think this game forum became his pinata.

    You wont see him complain on the swtor forums or wow forums. Combat is almost just the same.
  • Froggie85Froggie85 Member UncommonPosts: 221

    Mandodo69 said:
    What's so odd? I don't need to play it to know its shit. My brother and many of my old FC still play. I can see their streams and talk to them. I don't do weekends any more because i am done with the game.

    They promised horizontal progression and delivered nothing. That's when i decided to not give them any more money or bother logging in even when it is free.

    • Are you disputing the fact that the combat is repeating a rotation?
    • Are you disputing the boss fights are synchronized rope jumping?
    • Are you disputing the fights are so tightly optimized that recently they fucked up and you could not beat a DPS check even with highest gear and weapons and they had to do a patch?

    I am very well informed about the game my friend. Don't worry about me.

    PS: I can sit next to my brother all day and watch him play. We live in the same house as we run a company together.
    I just have to ask, what (MMORPG or turn based ) combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    All of them revolve around rotations, but some are better than others. Managing Resources and procs are what make it more interesting. 
    Oy and thats what this game does eh'.
    That's what this game is lacking. Any meaningful character customization that changes playstyle. Not a single piece of gear that has an interesting proc. Your PLD plays exactly like mine. Resources are streamlined to the point of barely needing to worry about it. They have the opportunity to add interesting materia but instead it's just straight stat increases. Chocobos have more meaningful customization than the player character. 
    I'm pretty sure there not the same mate. I am pretty sure I have more parry then you. I also reworked my stats and put them in str instead of vit. I will swap when raid time but until then. Why would I play my pld like you? I almost sure we use skills at very different times. We may have the same skills but, we don't play the same. My war can be dps or tank.
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    I can't say I played many that had "good" combat... Simply because as far back as I can remember, the most efficient way to play has always been learning the most effective combination of skills. As an example, as a ranger or typical ranged fighter you want to use essentially the same rotation of skills in a fight, in every game that features this type of combat. A sneak attack (usually high initial damage).. a snare, a debuff, a dot and then a high damage strike, rinse and repeat. It was like that in SWG it was like that in just about everything I've seen after.

    Sure some games throw curve balls now and then, or add extra layers of knowledge needed (damage/armor types) but for the most part they all revolve around patterns at the core (similar ones to boot, like my example above). Hence the question.
    The problem with FFXIV is that it does not have the attributes, skills or abilities to even make the combat or boss fights remotely interesting. It is like all the dumbed down games that came out since WOW, but somehow Yoshi managed to make it even more retarded and meaningless.

    It is an achievement on its own to dumb a game down to the point where there is basically only one way to "win" and were old content gets made trivial by giving failing people insane buffs. It's amazing that anyone can play this game an not feel insulted.

    In FFXI there are at least 2-3 different ways to beat almost all encounters. Some even have more. All with different strategies and party setup. That is what i call good combat and game play.

    Not being able to make your own party setup is probably the best proof on how incredibly dumbed down FFXIV is.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    Mandodo69 said:

    Mandodo69 said:
    What's so odd? I don't need to play it to know its shit. My brother and many of my old FC still play. I can see their streams and talk to them. I don't do weekends any more because i am done with the game.

    They promised horizontal progression and delivered nothing. That's when i decided to not give them any more money or bother logging in even when it is free.

    • Are you disputing the fact that the combat is repeating a rotation?
    • Are you disputing the boss fights are synchronized rope jumping?
    • Are you disputing the fights are so tightly optimized that recently they fucked up and you could not beat a DPS check even with highest gear and weapons and they had to do a patch?

    I am very well informed about the game my friend. Don't worry about me.

    PS: I can sit next to my brother all day and watch him play. We live in the same house as we run a company together.
    I just have to ask, what (MMORPG or turn based ) combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    All of them revolve around rotations, but some are better than others. Managing Resources and procs are what make it more interesting. 
    Oy and thats what this game does eh'.
    That's what this game is lacking. Any meaningful character customization that changes playstyle. Not a single piece of gear that has an interesting proc. Your PLD plays exactly like mine. Resources are streamlined to the point of barely needing to worry about it. They have the opportunity to add interesting materia but instead it's just straight stat increases. Chocobos have more meaningful customization than the player character. 
    I'm pretty sure there not the same mate. I am pretty sure I have more parry then you. I also reworked my stats and put them in str instead of vit. I will swap when raid time but until then. Why would I play my pld like you? I almost sure we use skills at very different times. We may have the same skills but, we don't play the same. My war can be dps or tank.
    How does any of that change your PLD in a meaningful way? You have more STR and Parry. I have more VIT. Wow.

    All PLD's play the same way, more or less. The same combos exist for you as they do for every other PLD. You might use them at a different time, but in the end, you're doing the exact same thing as every other PLD. 

    In WoW a tanking PLD has choices that will alter the way you play the charater. Yes, the base rotations are the same, but there are choices that a player can make that change the rotation. Maybe it's just an illusion because I get a button to push at a different time for a different outcome, but that's a lot better than being offered no choice. 
  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Mandodo69 said:
    MrSnuffles wants more and I think this game forum became his pinata.
    You wont see him complain on the swtor forums or wow forums. Combat is almost just the same.
    No, i just look at the Recent posts page and answer to those threads. I don't go to specific game forums at all, not interested. Since i never see SWTOR or WOW threads on the recent posts page i never post in them.

    I know, it's crazy how you are wrong every time you post something about me. Maybe you need to realize that you don't know me and making assumptions is not a good idea.
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Mandodo69 said:
    That's what this game is lacking. Any meaningful character customization that changes playstyle. Not a single piece of gear that has an interesting proc. Your PLD plays exactly like mine. Resources are streamlined to the point of barely needing to worry about it. They have the opportunity to add interesting materia but instead it's just straight stat increases. Chocobos have more meaningful customization than the player character. 
    I'm pretty sure there not the same mate. I am pretty sure I have more parry then you. I also reworked my stats and put them in str instead of vit. I will swap when raid time but until then. Why would I play my pld like you? I almost sure we use skills at very different times. We may have the same skills but, we don't play the same. My war can be dps or tank.
    How does any of that change your PLD in a meaningful way? You have more STR and Parry. I have more VIT. Wow.

    All PLD's play the same way, more or less. The same combos exist for you as they do for every other PLD. You might use them at a different time, but in the end, you're doing the exact same thing as every other PLD. 

    In WoW a tanking PLD has choices that will alter the way you play the charater. Yes, the base rotations are the same, but there are choices that a player can make that change the rotation. Maybe it's just an illusion because I get a button to push at a different time for a different outcome, but that's a lot better than being offered no choice. 
    You forgot to mention that the attributes you can change in FFXIV do pretty much nothing at all. They have minimal impact, around 0.1% at best.
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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • Darkfalz89Darkfalz89 Member UncommonPosts: 581
    Everytime, deleting my comments. 

    Anyway. 
    The Mod edits are real, loving losing an entire post or paragraph despite just trying to be sincere and offer good advice. I guess its all considered trolling and flaming now.
  • Darkfalz89Darkfalz89 Member UncommonPosts: 581
    edited January 2016
    You are absolutely right. The combat is exactly like the Boss fights. You memorize a rotation and repeat it. It's the only way to beat the extremely tight tuned DPS checks in most dungeons.

    The community is very toxic and elitist. I was in the same LS as Mr.Happy (one of the few FFXIV youtubers)  I remember back when we did coil and it was required you level an alt for coil. When new people wanted to join our FC they had to have at least one alt fully geared for coil and they needed to show everyone their DPS rotation before being accepted. Third party DPS loggers where used constantly to judge performance. That is what bad content is doing, it creates bad communities.

    People forget how to have fun playing a game. Although in this case it's no wonder since the content is not fun to play.

    The best part of the game is the story and graphics. But it does not justify a subscription when the rest of the game is boring. It's enough for me to come back every couple of months to continue the main story line and then let my sub lapse again. Sometimes i can do it with the free weekends.
    Playing MMO's for well over a decade I got to see the difference between how boss battles function. I remember a time when you had to plan accordingly to what was about to hit you rather than try to run in circles like a moron while mashing your 1-5 key combo (or in the case of FFXIV and WoW your 1-5 combo with OGCD's to give the false appearance of complexity) until your keys pop out. While I note FFXIV primarily,  WoW just as a guilty offender but in a lesser degree. WoW did eventually add instances where classes like Hunter and Warrior had proc's to at least give you some whack-a-mole intuitiveness at least.

    Older gen MMO's did have a sense of a slower combat pace for reasons of their own, but I will compare FFXI's monster AI for this instance. Thinking back I do miss a time when you had to anticipate or prepare for getting hit by something and using CC/CD's and group coordination to conquer. This sounds similar to FFXIV per say but the games TP system brought a sense of unknown as to what you were getting hit buy. As you hit monsters and got TP to use your abilities so did they vice versa. Bosses with ties to monster families had some of those abilities and some nastier ones. Most bosses had some mage influence so you also had to watch out for what they were casting making you use your CC wisely. When fighting a monster there was no "pre scripted" moves they used in a particular order, they merely chose a move at 100TP as you did. 

    When a monsters health lowered in quarters or 10's of % they unlocked various nastier moves they could choose room; this replicated what we called "phases" of a fight before they were a thing.This type of combat created a sense of mystery and sense of unknown, allowing even the most experience guilds to occasionally wipe on something they had on farm status due to a unprecedented slip up. All this is Mob AI RNG and I am aware of it; while its a cheap way to make engagements it felt nice to have more control. Silencing/Stunning/Sleeping/Rooting/Paralyzing e.t.c. all had varied levels of success based on what you were fighting and all built up resistances as you kept using moves. This created a inconsistent feel with content that promoted teamwork rather than team dance routines of 100% predictable nature. 

    Looking at raid guides for FFXIV on youtube and watching them name the next 40 moves a monster point for point is a big enough indicator of how HEAVILY scripted fights are. Raiding has always been fun from the progression standpoint, but content like this gets its difficulty from team synergy rather than actual mob difficulty. Once your group finally learns the dance it becomes the same fight day after day, week after week until the next platform of X come out with X engagement and the cycle continues. Fights become more of muscle memory and memorization rather than testing the individual capability of each person.

    FFXIV becomes a greater offender in this situation with its "If you don't do this at x Time INSTA RAID WIPE, OMG SUCH DIFFICULT, MUCH HARD" and constant EXTREMELY HARSH DPS checks which create the situation above poster mentioned. All the while listening to these "Elitests" talk down to others as if they accomplished such a great feat when in reality its just more overall competence and common sense paired with scripted memorization. 

    As I've mentioned in the past when content is created in such a predictable manner people naturally get bored and leave/quit and now you have to find another person to teach the dance to. This is what makes raiding so nerve wracking and to me no longer worth the time investment because its not the worth the time invested/enjoyment gained factor. Why I wish games focused on more smaller group oriented (4-6 players) with support/hybrid classes and un scripted battles with light use of CC.


  • Darkfalz89Darkfalz89 Member UncommonPosts: 581
    edited January 2016
    Mandodo69 said:
    Maquiame said:
    Pfft

    Its the best themepark on the market, problem is that themeparks suck and Yoshi has no idea what horizontal progression means for mmorpgs. When he finally does learn what it is the game will be wonderful.
    100% agree with you there. I fear however that we will never see that happening. Players have been asking for horizontal progression for ages now and they actually said something is coming in 3.x but so far i see no improvement at all.

    It also needs a living world. Right now it is a lobby game because that is the most effective way to play it. The world feels like a static backdrop for the dungeon finder.
    I'm not taking sides in this argument but, i'm lost, how do you know exactly? I found where you posted your loadstone, where you gloated about using free weekends to catch up, and clicked on the link. Now you're loadstone should update as everyones does. What's weird is you have not played since January of 2015. You never played HW at all. You barely finished the 2.3 story. I can tell by achievements earned. You can't just skip on achievements from story. You also have no classes leveled passed 50. Now you could argue that you "started over" but, with how many free weekends there were since then and now, there is no way you could be 60.

    You're loadstone: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/725426/

    Where you posted and gloated: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/434771/return-to-eorzea-1-month-free-acces-and-full-ilevel-120-set/p1

    I have to wonder, how would you know about gear and such at 60? By guessing it's the same? Can you say the same for combat? Each job gets new skills and most, new play styles all together. How can you give an opinion on stuff such as combat and content if you have never played it?

    I just find it odd that you have not played in over a year and yet, somehow know more then most.

    Odd.
    See Hellbound, you are capable of calling someone out WHILE not personally attacking them and sounding like a 100% transparent creep! No sarcasm at all I am also very impressed with your detective work!
  • Darkfalz89Darkfalz89 Member UncommonPosts: 581
    edited January 2016
    Mandodo69 said:
    But, you only gave them money once, this you have said mate. I am not disputing anything. I think the game is so-so. Not too good and not too bad.

    Also mate, you don't do weekends anymore because the free weekends now have restrictions, ie you have to have been subbed between this time and that.

    Maybe that's why you a little sour mate. No more free weekends to exploit.
    Honestly, i did not even know they added that restriction for free weekends. I only heard that you lose your house if you don't subscribe. That probably was the final straw for me.

    I am not sour, i was hoping to keep up if the game eventually gets good. But since the last patches where everyone hoped for horizontal progression i have no more hope for this game.
    For all intents and purposes its the same game we have been playing since 2.0, I'm currently subbed and working on my crafters and even playing past HW I can say its much of the same. 
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,096
    Distopia said:
    I just have to ask, what combat doesn't revolve around repeating rotations, or learning repeated rotations (bosses)?
    You never played a good MMORPG i see.

    All DPS classes being the same and fights being timed to the second with no variations. Most games at least try to give the illusion that random things happen during boss encounters. Bosses use different skills every time, they spawn adds in non repeating patterns, you get the idea. The list is endless.

    Some games have boss fights that are seemingly impossible to beat until you figure out the "tricks". For example, not using certain debuffs or buffs. Bosses stealing buffs from players so you need to go in unbuffed. But they might change, maybe during night or day they are different. Incredible, right?

    Some bosses can not be hurt by certain type of magic. Like fire against Ifrit = healing him. Crazy, i know right! But FFXIV does not even have elemental effects and stats. Fire spells are not fire, they are DPS Damage X.

    Good games offer various methods to kill a boss. They offer, GET THIS, various types of party setup to kill bosses. I know, it's crazy, you can make your own party consisting of whatever classes you like. WOW, amazing!

    I think you know very well what good combat is: FFXIV has probably the most dumbed down and stupid combat and boss encounters ever made.
    Apparently you have to finish the game before you realize how amazing it is.
    ....
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 675
    Earlier in here someone asked how the combat in this game could be bad, considering it mimics the combat of every other popular tab target MMORPG.  You have your rotations, you have your scripted boss fight, just a different coat of paint.

    I thought that was a really good question.  I already mentioned a few times what I dislike about the combat here, but I wanted to explain why I think the combat in FFXIV is weaker than the other tab-target games available.

    My first and possibly biggest complaint is the focus on off GCD buffs.  Memorizing a 20 button combo that has to be entered to start every boss fight is not fun, but right now it is a requirement no matter what class you play.  For me it has crossed the line between where I feel like I am playing my class, and where I feel like I am typing out what I have been told.  It seems that the devs wanted to create a complex game, and felt that giving players many off GCD buffs to keep track of would create that complexity while still allowing players to do a rotation.  What ends up happening instead is that players all must memorize the optimal order to activate those buffs at the beginning of the fight, and then simply hit any buff as it comes off cooldown.  I feel like this isn't adding complexity, but rather making the start of each fight a chore.

    My next largest issue would be the GCD itself.  FFXIV has a lengthy 2.5 second GCD, longer than any other game I have played.  I do not know whether they were trying to keep it long so it would be slower paced, or trying to make room for all the off GCD stuff they were planning, but whatever the reason I do not think it works.  The GCD makes combat such a slow task that I really struggle to enjoy it.  In other games the GCD is something I never think about, there is a quick rhythm and flow with an ability every 1-1.5 seconds.  In FFXIV it is a constant limiting factor, something I am always aware of as I wait 2.5 seconds to be able to use my next attack.

    The next problem I have with combat is the incoming damage, or rather the lack thereof.  This game does not hit tanks (or anybody) hard.  Possibly it comes from a desire for a DPS to survive a hit they take accidentally, or the thought that a healer briefly having aggro shouldn't lead to a wipe.  I would gladly take those punishments in exchange for everything dealing higher regular attack damage.  The low incoming damage means that there is never a need for crowd control or any kind of pre-pull planning.  Every single pull is an AOE pull, meaning learning a dungeon is limited to learning the bosses.  The low damage continues on the boss pulls, where the damage is so low that it is frequently even lower than the AOE pulls that preceded it.  This insanely low incoming damage has led to tanks tanking in their DPS stances and putting on DPS gear, and healers spending most of their time attacking.  In response to this trend the devs have actually started accounting for increased tank and healer damage in their DPS checks.  They are aware of what is happening but do not seem to view it as a problem.

    My last major problem is one that all games suffer from, but that is becoming too large to ignore.  Class imbalance in HW is becoming too much.  The game actually does a pretty good job for most of the DPS classes, the problems arise with the supports, healers, and tanks.  Right now the support classes are considered a must-have in every raid, and it seems like the devs want to keep their damage so low that they could be replaced by a regular damage dealer.  The highest DPS tank (warrior) is scraping the numbers of the lowest dps support (machinist).  I think that is absolutely absurd.  If 4 man content were at all challenging this would be an even more serious issue, as the dungeon finder considers support classes to be DPS.  The lowest damage tank (paladin) is an actual detriment in tight DPS checks, their damage so much lower than the other tanks that it hurts the group.  Moving on to the healers, right now a white mage or scholar heal more  and deal drastically more damage than the new Astrologian.  Class imbalance exists in every game, but in other games I have played it usually seems like the devs are continuing to work toward their goal of balance and just have not finished yet.  In FFXIV it seems like the devs are aiming for a goal where the DPS classes are balanced, and the support and tanks are even, and the healers are half a support.  Some players may be fine with that, but I don't see why the FFXIV devs thought it was a good idea to mess with a balancing system that works in other games (support doing 80% dps, healers 0, tanks 30-40%).

    This was an awful lot to write about disliking combat, but I thought it was a good question and a good point.  FFXIV does copy the combat of other games, but the changes they made to it are enough to keep me (and seemingly many others) from enjoying it.
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    Hi again Hellbound. Starting to look a bit pathetic at this point. 
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 675
    edited January 2016
    *snip*
    Welcome back from your ban Hellbound.

    If you didn't quote me out of context, or read the whole thing, you would see I never contradicted myself.  I tried the monk and it was exactly the same problems as every other class, with the OGCD memorized opener followed by (faster, but still dull) GCD rotation.

    Since you want to go through all my posts, I will do you the favor of answering your trolls.  In this very thread you can go back to my posts and see me recommending it but saying combat and community were a problem that will keep people from staying.  Then you quote my review of only the  3.1 patch in the expansion and say it is contradictory.  I would say that the combat and community have nothing at all to do with the patch.  I thought it was a good patch, and helped alleviate the terribly limited amount of dungeons.

    You will also note how I was consistent with my criticisms throughout all those threads.  I simply went from thinking it was just the classes I played to realizing that it was every damn class in the game.

    Finally I hope you note that I was civil in my posts, and I think you would have a better chance of avoiding bans if you tried it yourself.

    In your own post you say that warrior dps is higher than machinist, as if that is a good thing (then tell me that everything is balanced).  For how much you love facts you should have bothered with some actual parses, as now you are continuing your new favorite hobby of claiming you are better than the best.  Unfortunately for you, there are sites for top parses that shows the top warriors coming in at just under the top machinists.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t12V9LCXPigMf7yA0l9gndMW7o85PKvWUuU5cwsLaoo/pubhtml#
    http://www.fflogs.com/statistics/7

    So far in this thread you have insulted everyone, claimed you are better than the best players, told people their opinions are wrong, been shown facts and denied them, told everyone to "get good," then got banned and made a new account to continue trolling and harassing people.

    Seriously though, idk what is going on with you lately.  You were helpful and polite in those older threads, but now every post you write you put down who you are replying to and tell them they know nothing of the game, while simultaneously making outrageous claims that are clearly lies.  I can't imagine you think people will actually believe you are better than the top warriors or dragoons, so I can only assume you are saying these things to get an interesting reaction.  Here is my reaction for your efforts:

    Dude, what happened?
    Post edited by Baitness on
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