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Tree of Savior - The Greed Train Continues

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  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    People were so overhyped over this they called it a game changer, decade lasting game etc, you underestimate publishers and money factor :chuffed: 
  • Andel_SkaarAndel_Skaar Member UncommonPosts: 401
    Wasn't player-to-player trading also removed from BDO ?

    You can thank the booming RMT industry for these kinds of changes...
    Except there has always been a "booming" RMT business. Lineage 1 is evidence of that.

    Companies have solutions for this issue, Nexon is instead trying to profit from RMT by taking away trading capabilities and charging real world cash for players to be allowed to list items on the auction house. Not only that, they then have the audacity to charge extra for players to be allowed to list items for a length longer than the default duration, which is only three hours to begin with!

    No, RMT is not to blame for this. Nexon's pure greed, and their greed alone is to blame for this.

     

    That game is over with, only grind zombies and swipers will remain, same thing happened in Archeage.
    Deja vu
  • ValentinaValentina Member RarePosts: 2,077
    It will be really interesting to see how IMC handles this sort of backlash when they publish the game here. If they even bother at this point. I'm really curious how much Nexon had to do with the pricing in the store with hair and the trade thing, or if IMC had something to do with that. 
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,020
    DMKano said:
    Wizardry said:


    Everyone by now should have a decent idea of what is fair but from what i have seen a LOT of these games are basically slapping their customers in the face with way over the top pricing.

    Well it's every customers right to not play and not buy.

    There are designer furniture stores I've walked into where I couldn't find a single piece under $5,000 - and sofa sets were over $20,000

    It was all clearly priced - I am yet to see any forum posts about "a lot of these furniture stores are basically slapping their customers in the face with way over the top pricing"

    Too rich for your blood - don't buy it, simple right?


    why video games should be an exception and why some gamers think that game companies should not be run like other businesses is something I don't get.

    If some video game company wants to set crazy pricing on their stuff - it's their product, their game, their right to set whatever pricing they seem fit - as long as its clearly marked, what's the problem?




    leave it to dmkano to be facetious to ignore the very obvious flaw in his logic.

    There are multiple reasons why designer stores cost a lot more than some no-name grand product. One is quality. You are paying a premium for a much higher quality sofa. Usually, it'll be a hell of a lot more comfortable. Aesthetics, the nicer something looks, the higher its price generally.(this actually applies to mmo cashshops as well). Extra Features. That 20k sofa probably has warming capabilities, massage capabilities, usb ports, and a dozen other features that drive the price up. Brand recognition, there's lots of names out there that people just trust them to have a good product, because of their history. So the brand name comes with automatic higher prices the more popular it is because buyers know they're getting a good product and don't have to worry about seams tearing 2 months down the line or lumpy cushions.

    The only thing from above that could apply to mmo cash shops is better aesthetics demanding a higher price.

    image
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  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,020
    Phry said:
    Onigod said:
    Charging small amount of IRL money does not fix real money trading anyones,  those who buy from RMT are spending money anyways and now those who want to continiue play the game like they did are forced to pay money,  they do not chance the RMT in their game even in the slightest with this move, this is just them cashing in.
    Because players can't trade with other players directly, it makes it extremely hard for RMT traders to operate, that they then also monetize their AH system, particularly so for F2P players, means that RMT companies have a hard time raising in game currency without spending a fair amount of RL cash.
    Not saying i agree with it, but its a valid method of combating RMT.
    No it isnt. It won't change a single thing with the RMT. They often buy accounts/cash shop shit with stolen CCs or use stolen accounts to begin with. The RMT game doesn't change at all, it doesn't make anything harder on them. They'll continue to run their bots/slave players to the ground and make that money, the only ones hurt in this are everyone else but the RMT/Nexon.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited January 2016
    Torval said:
    Sephiroso said:
    DMKano said:
    Wizardry said:
    Everyone by now should have a decent idea of what is fair but from what i have seen a LOT of these games are basically slapping their customers in the face with way over the top pricing
    Well it's every customers right to not play and not buy.

    There are designer furniture stores I've walked into where I couldn't find a single piece under $5,000 - and sofa sets were over $20,000

    It was all clearly priced - I am yet to see any forum posts about "a lot of these furniture stores are basically slapping their customers in the face with way over the top pricing"

    Too rich for your blood - don't buy it, simple right?


    why video games should be an exception and why some gamers think that game companies should not be run like other businesses is something I don't get.

    If some video game company wants to set crazy pricing on their stuff - it's their product, their game, their right to set whatever pricing they seem fit - as long as its clearly marked, what's the problem?
    leave it to dmkano to be facetious to ignore the very obvious flaw in his logic.

    There are multiple reasons why designer stores cost a lot more than some no-name grand product. One is quality. You are paying a premium for a much higher quality sofa. Usually, it'll be a hell of a lot more comfortable. Aesthetics, the nicer something looks, the higher its price generally.(this actually applies to mmo cashshops as well). Extra Features. That 20k sofa probably has warming capabilities, massage capabilities, usb ports, and a dozen other features that drive the price up. Brand recognition, there's lots of names out there that people just trust them to have a good product, because of their history. So the brand name comes with automatic higher prices the more popular it is because buyers know they're getting a good product and don't have to worry about seams tearing 2 months down the line or lumpy cushions.

    The only thing from above that could apply to mmo cash shops is better aesthetics demanding a higher price.
    You're cherry picking.

    A higher price tag does not necessarily equate to higher quality, especially in clothing, food, and entertainment. Sometimes the price tag is just there for the luxury factor.

    But let's go with your "provide more or unique features" premise. It's more than just aesthetics. It's the entire package. If the developers are providing a unique or niche gaming experience they could be charging more for that experience. It's not that the cosmetics are of a higher quality, but that the gameplay sets itself apart from the norm thus they feel they can charge more for it.

    In this case that is more true than it's not. There are not a lot of games which provide that that style and feel of mmorpg game play. They don't have a lot of equivalent competition.

    If players don't feel that the price justifies the experience they don't have to pay or play much like any other luxury experience.
    There's also a major difference between e-products (such as items/boosters/etc.) and physical items.

    Once you've created e-product, the cost to manufacture is pretty much nothing.  That couch that's $5,000?  Yea, maybe you pay for the aesthetic, but depending upon the materials and method of creation, it probably cost a lot more to manufacture and ship to the store than the $400 couch you bought at Ikea and had to put together yourself.

    I think this is where a lot of folks get a bad taste in their mouths when they see things like space ships being sold for thousands of dollars.  After they created the model, it costs the developers next to nothing to get you yours, yet they charge as if they had to ship the pixels in via black market in the Balkans.

    image
  • shalissarshalissar Member UncommonPosts: 509
    Botters and the RMT industry's habit of buying up everything on auction and reselling it so that the less honest players feel they have no choice but to buy from RMT so they can buy items from RMT is a scourge on mmorpgs unlike any other.

     Not seeing the problem here and it certainly isn't greed. So you have to pay for a modest fee or a subscription? Wow what tough luck for you. What's the next gripe going to be? We already have morons crying about things in cash shops that are mandatory for convenience (those exact words too)

    I am honestly hoping some miraculous return to the days of entertainment where if you didn't have the money or weren't willing to pay, you didn't get to play END OF.
  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    edited January 2016
    shalissar said:
    Botters and the RMT industry's habit of buying up everything on auction and reselling it so that the less honest players feel they have no choice but to buy from RMT so they can buy items from RMT is a scourge on mmorpgs unlike any other.

     Not seeing the problem here and it certainly isn't greed. So you have to pay for a modest fee or a subscription? Wow what tough luck for you. What's the next gripe going to be? We already have morons crying about things in cash shops that are mandatory for convenience (those exact words too)

    I am honestly hoping some miraculous return to the days of entertainment where if you didn't have the money or weren't willing to pay, you didn't get to play END OF.
    Um, no, it's not offered with a subscription. You can only list one item on the AH, and only for three hours. You can pay to list another item, but each item you list an item besides the first one it costs real world money. Then if you want more than three hours you are required to fork over even more cash.

    If you're honestly excusing this as an okay practice then I find that kind of sad. I'm willing to subscribe to a game and buy cosmetic crap to support a game company's developers, but I draw the line when they start charging to take part in a game's economy.
    Post edited by Razeekster on

    Smile

  • Xeno.phonXeno.phon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    I tend to agree with some of the posters in this thread, the amount of money these mobile "gamers" drop on pure shite games like candy crush and clash of clans really opened up devs eyes. Now they think they can just roll around producing shallow crap and make billions doing it.

    Thanks mobile "gamers".
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Torval said:
    DMKano said:
    Wizardry said:


    Everyone by now should have a decent idea of what is fair but from what i have seen a LOT of these games are basically slapping their customers in the face with way over the top pricing.
    Well it's every customers right to not play and not buy.

    There are designer furniture stores I've walked into where I couldn't find a single piece under $5,000 - and sofa sets were over $20,000

    It was all clearly priced - I am yet to see any forum posts about "a lot of these furniture stores are basically slapping their customers in the face with way over the top pricing"

    Too rich for your blood - don't buy it, simple right?

    why video games should be an exception and why some gamers think that game companies should not be run like other businesses is something I don't get.

    If some video game company wants to set crazy pricing on their stuff - it's their product, their game, their right to set whatever pricing they seem fit - as long as its clearly marked, what's the problem?
    It's weird that some people here don't get this. I'm not sure if it's entitlement or if they're just very young and inexperienced, or if they live in Myopia.

    There are so many examples of businesses and industries that have luxury priced goods and commodities, but when it comes to gaming players seem to have this expectation that the price should be what they feel like paying. If it's not you can expect the vitriol to be unleashed.

    I think their pricing is outrageous as well, much like the furniture shop you mentioned, but I'll just not play the game if it ends up being that way.
    I think the virtual vs. real goods perception comes into play quite a bit. It's why real luxury good parallels don't quite hold.

    Step away from our niche hobby and try to look at it from the perspective of someone who doesn't play games at all. They'll say "$20 for a virtual haircut... say what?" while sitting on their $13,000 couch.

    Most people, and I include myself in that, still find spending real world money on virtual property strange. For example, I don't think twice about buying a $150 mouse or $400 video card... but I won't go anywhere near the aforementioned $20 haircut.

    Like most of us I have gotten used to $70 games and even monthly subs. I see real value in that. The problem for me comes in when they carve out chunks of the gaming experience and sell it piecemeal. It may amount to close to the same as a box price + sub in the end but when it's sold pieces at a time in the cash shop way, I'm forced to look at it in a different way and I question the value.

    Yeah I know, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But it still bothers me :)
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  • AnirethAnireth Member UncommonPosts: 940
    They can pick whatever price they want, but from what people wrote here, if they'd really want to combat RMT, they'd simply get rid of any and all player trading. Would even be easier on the developers and the servers.

    This is not combating RMT, this is about squeezing out more money. They are allowed to do that of course, but we are allowed to call them out on being greedy. Which they are, seeing how other games work with useful auction houses and/or direct trading.

    Just as we are allowed to call out Apple for being greedy. After all, they charge like $600 for parts that cost $200 tops. Or to keep with the couch example: If they can afford to sell the same couch for $10.000 a few weeks later, and to celebrate the price cut, they even offer a $5000 deal "for a limited time only" (like, two months), then the initial $20.000 price tag was not justified no matter what.

    Similar with video games. Sometimes, games get reduced to a $10 price tag within weeks, showing that either the publisher never really considered it worth the full $60 price tag and just wanted to squeeze a bit more out of it, or the game is really that bad that really *nobody* bought it. Which most likely is the same as the first case, there is no way they don't know that they produced crap if it's *that* bad.

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  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,004
    Trade limitations is one way to combat RWT but monetizing the auction shop is just greedy.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

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