The idea of breaking the play experience down into 15 or 20 minute bites. I understand that it opens the window for people who have less play time to be a part of the game, but for me it makes it harder to feel like you're involved in the game, and that any success you have is extraordinary.
hmm .. we are playing games here. Any "success" is just an illusion that was calibrated to produce fun. You know that, right?
Some people spend hundreds of hours ( and hundreds of dollars) playing puzzle games in which the only reward is feeling good after finishing a puzzle. That feeling of success is what gets them to move on to the next puzzle.
I'm saying that if it is impossible to fail, then success requires no effort.
If success requires no effort, then that success is emotionally meaningless.
If success is emotionally meaningless, then there is no reason to play if that is the only reward.
When you get to the point of feeling "I won, but so what?" the game is over for you, no matter what kind of game you are playing.
Sure ... that is why we have difficulty slider and leader boards on some games, so people can feel their "success" in games.
I am quite sure some will think that beating GR 80 in D3 is an extraordinary "achievement". Just that it is not how i value "achievement".
Well, so far you fall into the minority of how folks feel regarding this poll. You put quite a bit of stock into this sort of thing, so it will be intriguing to see how this one pans out.
Most people do not share your opinion and by a large margin. That's gotta hurt a tad; but not to worry as there are limitless varieties of entertainment out there...
Most people? There are 64 votes on a websites that's known to be full of bitter old school snowflakes. There are millions and millions of people playing and enjoying mmorpgs today. Clearly you and the other bitter old school snowflakes are the real minority buddy.
But enjoy being part of the "cool crowd" here on this site that represents .000001% of the mmorpgs player base.
Just because WoW is declining, that doesn't mean other MMOs aren't growing.
We've never had so many AAA MMOs at once. MMOs while always a niche, they at least have millions of players today, rather than just a few 100k, like in the old days.
Have great exteriors but poor interiors. They look good but lack soul.
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Payment methods are there to lure you in and keep paying for the carrot, not to ignite your passion and want you to keep supporting the development of the game.
Social interactions are now a hindrance that get in your way, not a special moment that can lead to lifelong friendships.
Overall games have improved certain aspects on the MMORPG genre but imo the wrong things for us the consumers. Sure there are people who fall for the tricks of the trade and while they keep feeding the monkey games will continue being gutted but for new games to be successful we need to bring back some of the things that got people into gaming in the first place and loose all the shady business practices.
Have great exteriors but poor interiors. They look good but lack soul.
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Payment methods are there to lure you in and keep paying for the carrot, not to ignite your passion and want you to keep supporting the development of the game.
Social interactions are now a hindrance that get in your way, not a special moment that can lead to lifelong friendships.
Overall games have improved certain aspects on the MMORPG genre but imo the wrong things for us the consumers. Sure there are people who fall for the tricks of the trade and while they keep feeding the monkey games will continue being gutted but for new games to be successful we need to bring back some of the things that got people into gaming in the first place and loose all the shady business practices.
Hey good job with creating a post that fits your name.
That's a pretty bleak but standard doom and gloom post from this site. The truth is you and the rest of the doom and gloom snowflakes are the minority as soon as you log out of this site.
And IMO that is a great thing...we don't need the genre trying to please a bunch of old school snowflakes that will never be happy...misery loves company and its why you guys have this site.
Have great exteriors but poor interiors. They look good but lack soul.
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Payment methods are there to lure you in and keep paying for the carrot, not to ignite your passion and want you to keep supporting the development of the game.
Social interactions are now a hindrance that get in your way, not a special moment that can lead to lifelong friendships.
Overall games have improved certain aspects on the MMORPG genre but imo the wrong things for us the consumers. Sure there are people who fall for the tricks of the trade and while they keep feeding the monkey games will continue being gutted but for new games to be successful we need to bring back some of the things that got people into gaming in the first place and loose all the shady business practices.
Hey good job with creating a post that fits your name.
That's a pretty bleak but standard doom and gloom post from this site. The truth is you and the rest of the doom and gloom snowflakes are the minority as soon as you log out of this site.
And IMO that is a great thing...we don't need the genre trying to please a bunch of old school snowflakes that will never be happy...misery loves company and its why you guys have this site.
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Fun is subjective. Clearly they are fun to those who play it. Otherwise, why bother?
I didn't give an example because I thought people would understand but here is one.
A group finder helps the player find other players but doesn't make the game more fun. It is a purely mechanical system for the gamer to play the game but isn't a system to 'attempt' to make the game itself fun (with the understanding that of course anything can be said to not work as intended).
A group finder is there to help you find the fun quicker but it isn't there to attempt to provide the fun to you.
What I mean is, modern games are spending all their time bulilding fancy Taxi's to get you to the concert but forget to make the concert worth going to in the first place.
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Fun is subjective. Clearly they are fun to those who play it. Otherwise, why bother?
That's the problem with these guys it's not subjective. They have been crying about mmorpgs for ten years they truly feel they know what is good and isn't good FOR EVERYONE. It doesn't matter that millions and millions of other people are enjoying something they aren't. Those people are "monkeys" "Sheeps" "fanbois" or "don't know what real games are".
At least sites like this exist for them to share their doom and gloom to shed tears together to have a place where they are the cool kids.
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Fun is subjective. Clearly they are fun to those who play it. Otherwise, why bother?
That's the problem with these guys it's not subjective. They have been crying about mmorpgs for ten years they truly feel they know what is good and isn't good FOR EVERYONE. It doesn't matter that millions and millions of other people are enjoying something they aren't. Those people are "monkeys" "Sheeps" "fanbois" or "don't know what real games are".
At least sites like this exist for them to share their doom and gloom to shed tears together to have a place where they are the cool kids.
You certainly got out the wrong side of the bed today!!!
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Fun is subjective. Clearly they are fun to those who play it. Otherwise, why bother?
That's the problem with these guys it's not subjective. They have been crying about mmorpgs for ten years they truly feel they know what is good and isn't good FOR EVERYONE. It doesn't matter that millions and millions of other people are enjoying something they aren't. Those people are "monkeys" "Sheeps" "fanbois" or "don't know what real games are".
At least sites like this exist for them to share their doom and gloom to shed tears together to have a place where they are the cool kids.
You certainly got out the wrong side of the bed today!!!
It is hard to accept some things when pointed out because they hit so close to home. The first reaction is anger and I was not the first to display it. Read into that what you will.
What I mean is, modern games are spending all their time bulilding fancy Taxi's to get you to the concert but forget to make the concert worth going to in the first place.
If there is no fun, why would anyone be playing?
The only explanation is that what you consider fun, is different from the current MMO players.
It is hard to accept some things when pointed out because they hit so close to home. The first reaction is anger and I was not the first to display it. Read into that what you will.
Wait, you didn't just make a "NO! YOU!" post? Hell, yeah, you actually did...
Taking about 6-7 years off from playing MMORPGs has made the genre interesting again, but I am not sure that's the route that many people want to go. I was actually looking for something that played kind of like an EQ or a WoW. There are more action-combat oriented games out there these days, but that's not really my thing. I only play maybe 4 hours a week total, so saying that I play at all is a stretch in gamer terms, but I have enjoyed my time messing around in the re-launched Wildstar, and I am considering picking up FFXIV after checking out a trial.
My son got a PS4 for Christmas, and I walked in to find him playing Bloodborne. I asked him if it was like Dark Souls, and he said it was basically Dark Souls, only not. MMOs aren't special in this regard. Things fall into genres and genre games are all variations on some theme. I played a lot of RTS games back in the day, and if you're doing that all the time for a few years, yeah, they all play basically the same at some level. New games have all kinds of whizbang new features, but it is on top of the same basic game play, and once you're jaded, all you see is that you've played this game before.
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Ok you create a poll with some pretty weak choices. Your choices are either today's mmorpgs are GREAT or they are failing. How about mmorpgs are better then they were 15 years ago but they aren't great.
This.
They're a lot more fun and challenging now, but still no where near perfect.
If Black Desert, Guild Wars 2, ESO or any recent MMORPGs launched in 2002, we would probably all say that it's the best games that were ever made.
The big issue imo is that we're trying to get back that feeling we had playing UO / DAoC / SB, etc. back in the days. But that was 15 years ago... We tried lot of games, some of them with relatively similar design and mechanics for character progression, universe architecture, controls, territory conquest, rewards...
Current AAA titles are good and the number of players prove this. It's just that MMORPG veterans are getting bored of playing the same game we had in 2002 but with an updated setting / engine / graphics.
Hopefully CF and CU will bring a new type of experience that triggers those feelings of wonder and delight I had while playing MMO 10 years ago. And if not, fingers crossed that a new company will soon try to reach this goal.
It is hard to accept some things when pointed out because they hit so close to home. The first reaction is anger and I was not the first to display it. Read into that what you will.
Wait, you didn't just make a "NO! YOU!" post? Hell, yeah, you actually did...
O.o
I added to the discussion.
He just made personal attacks.
Sorry you can't tell the difference.
I've added to the discussion. I pointed out how horrible this screwed poll is and how claiming the results of this screwed poll represent the actually opinion of 99.99% of the million and millions playing and enjoying mmorpgs today is ridiculous.
I also added to the discussion how this site tends to learn towards the doom and gloom because people like YOU think you are the only ones who knows what EVERYONE else should enjoy. [mod edit]
"Doom and gloom", "snowflakes", what's next, "rose tinted glasses"? Fuck man, aren't you clever and original.
And you're also one of a handful of people on these forums that actually defends Narius. Have you read more than a few of his posts or even dipped your toes in his post history? I double dare to take that trip. LMAO!
Nice start to the New Year.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The reason MMOs seem to have gone down hill is due to the publishers and game developers under them being stuck in a miasma of complacency. No publisher wants to go to their shareholders with an MMO idea that doesn't have mass market appeal due to the costs of running a server farm good enough to host all the data and other requirements to run it. That means the developers get stuck in a very limited design space for what they can actually produce as far as an MMO goes when working under said publishers. Basically, we got MOBAs, FPS, and tab target action MMORPG. That's it. No traditional crafting or game mastering that actually takes effort on the players part to learn, because that just turns the mass appeal down too much for publishers liking. Oh, and we need PvP because some guy is going to say we need to have E-sports viability for the korean market and the possible blooming US E-sports market.
I'm just stating the facts sorry you don't like them.
We are all expressing OPINIONS, stop getting all bent out of shape.
True but I'm also stating some facts you don't like. For example
1) this poll is horrible. It's either MMORPGS are great or they are fail.
2) This site tends to lean towards doom and gloom towards today's mmorpgs (I believe there are three threads right now on this very topic on the first page)
3) Your original post fit your name perfectly
4) I'm not bent out of shape you are
5) This site doesn't represent the other 99.99% of mmorpg players that are playing. it's a tiny fringe group like I said before that lean towards not liking the way the genre has gone and are upset they got left behind.
I don't really consider them not as good,there are some improvements.The problem i have is that nobody is giving us a COMPLETE game,sure they improve one area but dumb down another or completely leave out another expected idea.
I just want someone to give me the whole package and without getting Jason Statham to deliver it :P
Are you prepared to accept a decade-long delivery time frame and a higher price tag, for a fully-complete fresh out of the box experience (equal to the 10-year "aged" AAA mmo titles)?
Or do you want Everything, at a basic price, and fast fast fast?
I have said it before if a game can deliver a complete game ,i will pay a higher sub fee than 15 ,maybe 25 bucks a month.They can hire a lot more employees if they got 10 bucks more a player on top of the box sale price which btw is no longer a box price most game sales are digital costing them a LOT less. Also technology is better faster than old days and it took them 7 years max in the old days.As well some studios are using 300 employees where in old days they maybe had from 50-150.
If your game was really good and even only had 2 million players,at 10 bucks more that is 20 million a month on top of the 15x2mil which is another 30 million,if you can't work with that,you shouldn't be making games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There is no game now that was like Ultima Online. It is a shame that they changed it to be more like the newer games. Every mmo afterwards has been boring for me.
The crafting was great. It was always in demand. Getting to mark your characters name on items that you made was great.
Housing was great. What other games can you place a house and decorate it like UO could?
Character customization was great for original character looks. Dye tubs were awesome.
Character vendors in houses to sell stuff was awesome. You could spend hours just going around seeing what other people had for sale on their vendors.
The reputation on your characters was great. It was funny having a lord or lady character.
Fast travel with recall ruins was nice also. It allowed you to fast travel all over the world.
Skill based and not character classes was great. There were no places level dependent. If you wanted to see how good your character was you went out and fought something. If you started getting your rear end handed to you then you ran. Having that free feeling with no hand holding was great. Not having to check if something was some type of color was great.
Not knowing how much hp's or what type of character someone made up was great. I remember my friends house was getting looted by 2 people. He asked for help on icq so 7 of us showed up. None of us could fight ourselves out of a wet paper bag, we all had sucky characters or had crafting characters. The 2 people looting the house did not know it. They stopped and my friend told us not to attack and bluffed them. He told the main guy looting the house that he would duel him and if he won he could have the house and everything in it. I seen one of the most awesome duels I have ever witnessed in any game. The guy that was looting his house ended up leaving because he ran out of reagents. his friend followed promptly.
The orc masks were great. I remember playing on Chessy and there was a guild that dressed up as orcs and tried to pk people with just basic items. That is the closest I have seen to any mmo letting you try to play creatures in the world.
For all the people that complained about getting pked there was recall. It did not always work, but it helped a lot. I never pked people, but it was always fun being in a dungeon with a group of friends and either running from a few of them, or just trying to fight one. There were quite a few times when we won and a few times when I got pked. Items were easy to replace so it was no big deal. That is what made the game fun in my opinion. Every other game has fallen flat for me. The excitement is not there.
The flagging system was great. The games out now just want to have pvp with no consequences. Stat loss on red pk characters helped fewer people be pk's. Also having pk's in the game promoted grouping or going out with friends. Games now are usually just a solo quest.
All this put together makes it the most memorable game I have ever played. I still can remember stuff about UO and I can hardly remember about any other mmo that I have played.
The first time I went to a dungeon with a friend I was worried my character was going to die. There were a lot of people there. A guy with a Katana with no armor and asked if we seen a guy there( I will call him Bill). Everyone said no. He told us that he had been blue pked by Bill earlier. I kind of felt bad for him. Kat guy told us he was waiting for Bill to get even. Everyone said ok we would let him know if we seen him. Not more then 2 min after Kat guy told us about it Bill showed up. He recalled in right by Kat guy. Kat guy ended up flagging grey and trapping bill into a table and pked him. Kat guy told us all thanks for not attacking him since he was grey. I was shocked. It was the first time in a dungeon and this happened. I was hooked after that.
I remember the first time I made a Katana with my character marking on it. I thought it was awesome. Also, standing around at Brit repairing people's weapons and armor for tips was great.
I remember the player run events, and counselors that helped people when something happened in the game. The first night I played I was lost so I called for help. A counselor came and talked to me. He helped me with suggestions and showed me around a little. I have never had that happen in any other mmo that I have played. He asked me what I wanted to do. I told him I wanted to make weapons and armor. He then showed me how to craft, and got me started by telling me what to do.
Most MMO's now do not even have half the stuff that UO had or has now. I have not played since a little after 2000. I played on a free shard for a while about 3 years ago and it was great, but it shut down. I keep waiting for another MMO to come close, but nothing has. I have not played on another free shard since then, but I have been thinking seriously about it. If no MMO comes out soon then I may go back to one. I just do not like all the Macro's that they have in the game now. It does not have the same feel as it used to because of it.
MMOs need to stop being SoloPwnMobile games, once they hop that tiny hurtle, we'll start having great MMOs again. Plain and simple. Oh, and P2P please. With no Cash shops. If I want to Solo, I'll play Shovel Knight. When I play a MMO, it's to play online and having fun with others.
Comments
But enjoy being part of the "cool crowd" here on this site that represents .000001% of the mmorpgs player base.
We've never had so many AAA MMOs at once. MMOs while always a niche, they at least have millions of players today, rather than just a few 100k, like in the old days.
Have great exteriors but poor interiors. They look good but lack soul.
They have game systems to help the player play the game but not to make the game more fun.
Payment methods are there to lure you in and keep paying for the carrot, not to ignite your passion and want you to keep supporting the development of the game.
Social interactions are now a hindrance that get in your way, not a special moment that can lead to lifelong friendships.
Overall games have improved certain aspects on the MMORPG genre but imo the wrong things for us the consumers. Sure there are people who fall for the tricks of the trade and while they keep feeding the monkey games will continue being gutted but for new games to be successful we need to bring back some of the things that got people into gaming in the first place and loose all the shady business practices.
That's a pretty bleak but standard doom and gloom post from this site. The truth is you and the rest of the doom and gloom snowflakes are the minority as soon as you log out of this site.
And IMO that is a great thing...we don't need the genre trying to please a bunch of old school snowflakes that will never be happy...misery loves company and its why you guys have this site.
I didn't give an example because I thought people would understand but here is one.
A group finder helps the player find other players but doesn't make the game more fun. It is a purely mechanical system for the gamer to play the game but isn't a system to 'attempt' to make the game itself fun (with the understanding that of course anything can be said to not work as intended).
A group finder is there to help you find the fun quicker but it isn't there to attempt to provide the fun to you.
What I mean is, modern games are spending all their time bulilding fancy Taxi's to get you to the concert but forget to make the concert worth going to in the first place.
At least sites like this exist for them to share their doom and gloom to shed tears together to have a place where they are the cool kids.
You certainly got out the wrong side of the bed today!!!
The only explanation is that what you consider fun, is different from the current MMO players.
I added to the discussion.
He just made personal attacks.
Sorry you can't tell the difference.
My son got a PS4 for Christmas, and I walked in to find him playing Bloodborne. I asked him if it was like Dark Souls, and he said it was basically Dark Souls, only not. MMOs aren't special in this regard. Things fall into genres and genre games are all variations on some theme. I played a lot of RTS games back in the day, and if you're doing that all the time for a few years, yeah, they all play basically the same at some level. New games have all kinds of whizbang new features, but it is on top of the same basic game play, and once you're jaded, all you see is that you've played this game before.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Do you really think nostalgic comments are out of place or the people making personal insults about those comments?
They're a lot more fun and challenging now, but still no where near perfect.
The big issue imo is that we're trying to get back that feeling we had playing UO / DAoC / SB, etc. back in the days. But that was 15 years ago... We tried lot of games, some of them with relatively similar design and mechanics for character progression, universe architecture, controls, territory conquest, rewards...
Current AAA titles are good and the number of players prove this. It's just that MMORPG veterans are getting bored of playing the same game we had in 2002 but with an updated setting / engine / graphics.
Hopefully CF and CU will bring a new type of experience that triggers those feelings of wonder and delight I had while playing MMO 10 years ago. And if not, fingers crossed that a new company will soon try to reach this goal.
I also added to the discussion how this site tends to learn towards the doom and gloom because people like YOU think you are the only ones who knows what EVERYONE else should enjoy.
[mod edit]
And you're also one of a handful of people on these forums that actually defends Narius. Have you read more than a few of his posts or even dipped your toes in his post history? I double dare to take that trip. LMAO!
Nice start to the New Year.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Fun times we live in, ain't it.
1) this poll is horrible. It's either MMORPGS are great or they are fail.
2) This site tends to lean towards doom and gloom towards today's mmorpgs (I believe there are three threads right now on this very topic on the first page)
3) Your original post fit your name perfectly
4) I'm not bent out of shape you are
5) This site doesn't represent the other 99.99% of mmorpg players that are playing. it's a tiny fringe group like I said before that lean towards not liking the way the genre has gone and are upset they got left behind.
Inbetween all of that I put in my opinion also.
Also technology is better faster than old days and it took them 7 years max in the old days.As well some studios are using 300 employees where in old days they maybe had from 50-150.
If your game was really good and even only had 2 million players,at 10 bucks more that is 20 million a month on top of the 15x2mil which is another 30 million,if you can't work with that,you shouldn't be making games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The crafting was great. It was always in demand. Getting to mark your characters name on items that you made was great.
Housing was great. What other games can you place a house and decorate it like UO could?
Character customization was great for original character looks. Dye tubs were awesome.
Character vendors in houses to sell stuff was awesome. You could spend hours just going around seeing what other people had for sale on their vendors.
The reputation on your characters was great. It was funny having a lord or lady character.
Fast travel with recall ruins was nice also. It allowed you to fast travel all over the world.
Skill based and not character classes was great. There were no places level dependent. If you wanted to see how good your character was you went out and fought something. If you started getting your rear end handed to you then you ran. Having that free feeling with no hand holding was great. Not having to check if something was some type of color was great.
Not knowing how much hp's or what type of character someone made up was great. I remember my friends house was getting looted by 2 people. He asked for help on icq so 7 of us showed up. None of us could fight ourselves out of a wet paper bag, we all had sucky characters or had crafting characters. The 2 people looting the house did not know it. They stopped and my friend told us not to attack and bluffed them. He told the main guy looting the house that he would duel him and if he won he could have the house and everything in it. I seen one of the most awesome duels I have ever witnessed in any game. The guy that was looting his house ended up leaving because he ran out of reagents. his friend followed promptly.
The orc masks were great. I remember playing on Chessy and there was a guild that dressed up as orcs and tried to pk people with just basic items. That is the closest I have seen to any mmo letting you try to play creatures in the world.
For all the people that complained about getting pked there was recall. It did not always work, but it helped a lot. I never pked people, but it was always fun being in a dungeon with a group of friends and either running from a few of them, or just trying to fight one. There were quite a few times when we won and a few times when I got pked. Items were easy to replace so it was no big deal. That is what made the game fun in my opinion. Every other game has fallen flat for me. The excitement is not there.
The flagging system was great. The games out now just want to have pvp with no consequences. Stat loss on red pk characters helped fewer people be pk's. Also having pk's in the game promoted grouping or going out with friends. Games now are usually just a solo quest.
All this put together makes it the most memorable game I have ever played. I still can remember stuff about UO and I can hardly remember about any other mmo that I have played.
The first time I went to a dungeon with a friend I was worried my character was going to die. There were a lot of people there. A guy with a Katana with no armor and asked if we seen a guy there( I will call him Bill). Everyone said no. He told us that he had been blue pked by Bill earlier. I kind of felt bad for him. Kat guy told us he was waiting for Bill to get even. Everyone said ok we would let him know if we seen him. Not more then 2 min after Kat guy told us about it Bill showed up. He recalled in right by Kat guy. Kat guy ended up flagging grey and trapping bill into a table and pked him. Kat guy told us all thanks for not attacking him since he was grey. I was shocked. It was the first time in a dungeon and this happened. I was hooked after that.
I remember the first time I made a Katana with my character marking on it. I thought it was awesome. Also, standing around at Brit repairing people's weapons and armor for tips was great.
I remember the player run events, and counselors that helped people when something happened in the game. The first night I played I was lost so I called for help. A counselor came and talked to me. He helped me with suggestions and showed me around a little. I have never had that happen in any other mmo that I have played. He asked me what I wanted to do. I told him I wanted to make weapons and armor. He then showed me how to craft, and got me started by telling me what to do.
Most MMO's now do not even have half the stuff that UO had or has now. I have not played since a little after 2000. I played on a free shard for a while about 3 years ago and it was great, but it shut down. I keep waiting for another MMO to come close, but nothing has. I have not played on another free shard since then, but I have been thinking seriously about it. If no MMO comes out soon then I may go back to one. I just do not like all the Macro's that they have in the game now. It does not have the same feel as it used to because of it.