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How strong are endgame gear upgrades?

2

Comments

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,667
    edited January 2016
    Oh I see well thank you I rather not be ganked while decorating my nice home . Thanks a lot for the clarification.

    There is also no way to avoid being targeted I suppose no safe areas or is the housing in the areas of open PvP. There is no flagging system either I presume.

    Asking because the game's economy and other aspects really intrigue me .
    Post edited by cheyane on
    Chamber of Chains
  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    YashaX said:
    cheyane said:
    Is it worth playing this game as a purely PvE game and not participate in PvP or are you forced to PvP ?


    The game is pretty much PvP focused. I'm surprised at one post saying anyone wouldbe disappointed if anyone was playing BDO for the PvP. Unless he's unhappy that ganking results in Karma loss.

    They probably said that because the gear/level gaps are extreme, potion spamming is a thing, and it appears that you will be able to just buy the most powerful gear (in a round about way). Some people likely think this is not a very good/satisfactory model for pvp and certainly the OP doesn't seem to like that kind of system.

    There looks to be a lot of sandboxy pve activities which might be the game's saving grace though.
    i said that because bdo simple aint a pvp game.. and ive been playing bdo since korean launch..

    There is only 1 element in the game that does pvp which is node wars..

    A pvp game is when the game is build upon pvp... and this is not the case in bdo

    simple example: doac and warhammer online are pvp games: the focus of the game is pvp.. 

    Bdo its focus is on grinding gear // crafting/housing and rng to keep the players addictive

    Altho the upcoming changes in korea about roque cities might make it more intresting for pvp'ers.

    Now if they make it possible to make pvp servers.. like attacking guards or raiding cities.. then you can actually debat it.. 

    or maybe add a pvp currency to the game which drops on kills..

    currently bdo punish players if you randomly attack players.
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited January 2016
    I find it silly that people thinking selling an item somehow equates to p2w just cuz r/l money was spent on it. They won't get the RNG to that point or have the gold right off to begin with you just aren't making the money to buy items appear out of thin air and until people earn enough it'd be silly. Also given a game where there is any sorta trade/ah or anything... You'd still have the whales buying the items from disreputable people or grey markets and then run into more bot issues and the like on top of that... I dunno why we act like almost everything can't be in the same scenario... 

    Its P2W because they are bypassing months of potential grind to gain an instantaneous massive stat advantage simply because they bought a bunch of stuff from the cash shop and sold it in game.

    Even if the OP items do not show up right away, I am sure a whale can just buy the black stones or whatever the upgrade item is and spam upgrade attempts over and over until he has gear that is superior.

    From a gear guide:

    Weapons:
    • From +0 to +7: Each upgrade adds +2 attack (???). 100% Success rate.
    • From +7 to +15: Each upgrade adds +5 attack.
    • +15 to I: 20% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • I to II: 10% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • II to III: 5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • III to IV: 2,5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • IV to V: 2% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).

    If this guide is correct, it indicates that as chance for success goes down, stat bonuses go up by a huge amount.

    The +7 to +15 upgrades are 2.5 times stronger than +0 to +7. That will create an INSANE gear gap (+7= +14 attack, +15= +54 attack) that just gets even worse in the higher tiers.

    There is so much P2W incentive in this game it is crazy.

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    cheyane said:
    Oh I see well thank you I rather not be ganked while decorating my nice home . Thanks a lot for the clarification.

    There is also no way to avoid being targeted I suppose no safe areas or is the housing in the areas of open PvP. There is no flagging system either I presume.

    Asking because the game's economy and other aspects really intrigue me .

    Housing is phased so they cant actually enter your house. If you step outside your house you are fair game but they will incur a karma hit and the guards might play kickball with their heads.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Jacobin said:
    I find it silly that people thinking selling an item somehow equates to p2w just cuz r/l money was spent on it. They won't get the RNG to that point or have the gold right off to begin with you just aren't making the money to buy items appear out of thin air and until people earn enough it'd be silly. Also given a game where there is any sorta trade/ah or anything... You'd still have the whales buying the items from disreputable people or grey markets and then run into more bot issues and the like on top of that... I dunno why we act like almost everything can't be in the same scenario... 

    Its P2W because they are bypassing months of potential grind to gain an instantaneous massive stat advantage simply because they bought a bunch of stuff from the cash shop and sold it in game.

    Even if the OP items do not show up right away, I am sure a whale can just buy the black stones or whatever the upgrade item is and spam upgrade attempts over and over until he has gear that is superior.

    From a gear guide:

    Weapons:
    • From +0 to +7: Each upgrade adds +2 attack (???). 100% Success rate.
    • From +7 to +15: Each upgrade adds +5 attack.
    • +15 to I: 20% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • I to II: 10% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • II to III: 5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • III to IV: 2,5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • IV to V: 2% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).

    If this guide is correct, it indicates that as chance for success goes down, stat bonuses go up by a huge amount.

    The +7 to +15 upgrades are 2.5 times stronger than +0 to +7. That will create an INSANE gear gap (+7= +14 attack, +15= +54 attack) that just gets even worse in the higher tiers.

    There is so much P2W incentive in this game it is crazy.


    Sorry but just to play devil's advocate how exactly do you know this will be P2W for NA/EU? We haven't even seen the cash shop yet. If they offer stat gear in the cash shop then sure I will agree P2W but if its costumes that are bound to account then really your argument holds no water
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited January 2016
    Kefo said:
    Sorry but just to play devil's advocate how exactly do you know this will be P2W for NA/EU? We haven't even seen the cash shop yet. If they offer stat gear in the cash shop then sure I will agree P2W but if its costumes that are bound to account then really your argument holds no water

    P2W has nothing to do with selling gear directly these days. This type of blatant ignorance is exactly why these games are so successful at duping gullible fools and becoming so profitable in the short term.

    Its been all about item tiers and RNG upgrading for several years now. You can be that sucker who farms every day and tries to upgrade items, or just spend the cash to buy the items instantly off the AH / buy tons of upgrade materials that would normally take months to farm and spam attempts until success.

    Massive vertical stat scaling is very bad / anti-competitive PVP design and makes it completely obvious that its just a short term cash grab that will implode in a few months once the credit card +99 whale meta drives everyone away.  Even non P2W pvp games like Darkfall died due to this design.

    If they just sold the best gear for $50 it would actually be a lot more transparent and balanced since people would know the true cost of having a competitive character. As posted earlier, the Russian week 1 cost2compete whale meta for full +15 is $500.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,263
    edited January 2016

    i said that because bdo simple aint a pvp game.. and ive been playing bdo since korean launch..

    There is only 1 element in the game that does pvp which is node wars..

    A pvp game is when the game is build upon pvp... and this is not the case in bdo

    simple example: doac and warhammer online are pvp games: the focus of the game is pvp.. 

    Bdo its focus is on grinding gear // crafting/housing and rng to keep the players addictive

    Altho the upcoming changes in korea about roque cities might make it more intresting for pvp'ers.

    Now if they make it possible to make pvp servers.. like attacking guards or raiding cities.. then you can actually debat it.. 

    or maybe add a pvp currency to the game which drops on kills..

    currently bdo punish players if you randomly attack players.
    BDO is very much a PvP game. Aside from Castle and Node Wars, GvGs have been changed in NA to only cost 150k silver (super cheap) and have no upkeep cost. So there will be lots of GvGs going on. Also karma for PKs has been reduced to 60k and based on the feedback on forums, likely will be reduced/fixed further. We are not getting the KR version of the game. Daum is customizing the game to NA/EU interests. 
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,263

    cheyane said:
    Oh I see well thank you I rather not be ganked while decorating my nice home . Thanks a lot for the clarification.

    There is also no way to avoid being targeted I suppose no safe areas or is the housing in the areas of open PvP. There is no flagging system either I presume.

    Asking because the game's economy and other aspects really intrigue me .
    Cities are safe zones. The rest of the world is fair game.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    Jacobin said:
    I find it silly that people thinking selling an item somehow equates to p2w just cuz r/l money was spent on it. They won't get the RNG to that point or have the gold right off to begin with you just aren't making the money to buy items appear out of thin air and until people earn enough it'd be silly. Also given a game where there is any sorta trade/ah or anything... You'd still have the whales buying the items from disreputable people or grey markets and then run into more bot issues and the like on top of that... I dunno why we act like almost everything can't be in the same scenario... 

    Its P2W because they are bypassing months of potential grind to gain an instantaneous massive stat advantage simply because they bought a bunch of stuff from the cash shop and sold it in game.

    Even if the OP items do not show up right away, I am sure a whale can just buy the black stones or whatever the upgrade item is and spam upgrade attempts over and over until he has gear that is superior.

    From a gear guide:

    Weapons:
    • From +0 to +7: Each upgrade adds +2 attack (???). 100% Success rate.
    • From +7 to +15: Each upgrade adds +5 attack.
    • +15 to I: 20% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • I to II: 10% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • II to III: 5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • III to IV: 2,5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • IV to V: 2% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).

    If this guide is correct, it indicates that as chance for success goes down, stat bonuses go up by a huge amount.

    The +7 to +15 upgrades are 2.5 times stronger than +0 to +7. That will create an INSANE gear gap (+7= +14 attack, +15= +54 attack) that just gets even worse in the higher tiers.

    There is so much P2W incentive in this game it is crazy.

    Yeah that looks very sad, it should be the opposite in a pvp focused game- ie the amount of power increase diminishes the more you upgrade gear. For example something like this would be better:

    • From +0 to +7: Each upgrade adds +2 attack (???). 100% Success rate.
    • From +7 to +15: Each upgrade adds +1 attack
    • +15 to +20: Each upgrade adds 0.5 attack
    ....
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Jacobin said:
    Kefo said:
    Sorry but just to play devil's advocate how exactly do you know this will be P2W for NA/EU? We haven't even seen the cash shop yet. If they offer stat gear in the cash shop then sure I will agree P2W but if its costumes that are bound to account then really your argument holds no water

    P2W has nothing to do with selling gear directly these days. This type of blatant ignorance is exactly why these games are so successful at duping gullible fools and becoming so profitable in the short term.

    Its been all about item tiers and RNG upgrading for several years now. You can be that sucker who farms every day and tries to upgrade items, or just spend the cash to buy the items instantly off the AH / buy tons of upgrade materials that would normally take months to farm and spam attempts until success.

    Massive vertical stat scaling is very bad / anti-competitive PVP design and makes it completely obvious that its just a short term cash grab that will implode in a few months once the credit card +99 whale meta drives everyone away.  Even non P2W pvp games like Darkfall died due to this design.

    If they just sold the best gear for $50 it would actually be a lot more transparent and balanced since people would know the true cost of having a competitive character. As posted earlier, the Russian week 1 cost2compete whale meta for full +15 is $500.
    P2W also involves selling gear in the cash shop. Again though you didn't really address the meat of my argument in that we haven't even seen the cash shop so you may not even be able to earn any money outside of normal in game means.
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    YashaX said:
    Yeah that looks very sad, it should be the opposite in a pvp focused game- ie the amount of power increase diminishes the more you upgrade gear.
    Totally agree. According to that guide a +15 weapon is 4 times stronger than a +7. A lot of people are going to be in for a very rude awakening when they see past the graphics and flashy combat and realize what BDO is really about.

    Kefo said:
    P2W also involves selling gear in the cash shop. Again though you didn't really address the meat of my argument in that we haven't even seen the cash shop so you may not even be able to earn any money outside of normal in game means.
    Obviously they will do the same thing as AA and put in the P2W at the last possible moment before release when everyone has already pre-ordered.

    They have nothing to gain by being up front about what will be in the cash shop in the West because the instant people see the best mounts in RNG loot crates and and cash2currency people will call them out and they will lose sales.

    That will happen anyways, but only after they have everyone's money.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Jacobin said:
    YashaX said:
    Yeah that looks very sad, it should be the opposite in a pvp focused game- ie the amount of power increase diminishes the more you upgrade gear.
    Totally agree. According to that guide a +15 weapon is 4 times stronger than a +7. A lot of people are going to be in for a very rude awakening when they see past the graphics and flashy combat and realize what BDO is really about.

    Kefo said:
    P2W also involves selling gear in the cash shop. Again though you didn't really address the meat of my argument in that we haven't even seen the cash shop so you may not even be able to earn any money outside of normal in game means.
    Obviously they will do the same thing as AA and put in the P2W at the last possible moment before release when everyone has already pre-ordered.

    They have nothing to gain by being up front about what will be in the cash shop in the West because the instant people see the best mounts in RNG loot crates and and cash2currency people will call them out and they will lose sales.

    That will happen anyways, but only after they have everyone's money.
    If they put in a crazy cash shop for release then they will more then likely be hit with a huge amount of refund requests. If they ignore them then chances are they will start getting chargeback fines. So they have plenty to lose by not being upfront.

    Now if they add in P2w items later on then they alienate a large portion of their playerbase which looks great in the short term for revenue but over the long run is rather stupid. At that point though you decide if the 30 bucks (or whatever founders pack you may have bought) was worth the game time you did get before the game went to the shitter for its cash shop policies.
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 589
    Jacobin said:
    I find it silly that people thinking selling an item somehow equates to p2w just cuz r/l money was spent on it. They won't get the RNG to that point or have the gold right off to begin with you just aren't making the money to buy items appear out of thin air and until people earn enough it'd be silly. Also given a game where there is any sorta trade/ah or anything... You'd still have the whales buying the items from disreputable people or grey markets and then run into more bot issues and the like on top of that... I dunno why we act like almost everything can't be in the same scenario... 

    Its P2W because they are bypassing months of potential grind to gain an instantaneous massive stat advantage simply because they bought a bunch of stuff from the cash shop and sold it in game.

    Even if the OP items do not show up right away, I am sure a whale can just buy the black stones or whatever the upgrade item is and spam upgrade attempts over and over until he has gear that is superior.

    From a gear guide:

    Weapons:
    • From +0 to +7: Each upgrade adds +2 attack (???). 100% Success rate.
    • From +7 to +15: Each upgrade adds +5 attack.
    • +15 to I: 20% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • I to II: 10% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • II to III: 5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • III to IV: 2,5% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).
    • IV to V: 2% Success rate (no safe enchantment possible).

    If this guide is correct, it indicates that as chance for success goes down, stat bonuses go up by a huge amount.

    The +7 to +15 upgrades are 2.5 times stronger than +0 to +7. That will create an INSANE gear gap (+7= +14 attack, +15= +54 attack) that just gets even worse in the higher tiers.

    There is so much P2W incentive in this game it is crazy.

    And someone finding a super rare item couldn't allow them to skip a lot of grinding. Hell just selling random crap on the AH that you make over time would let you skip a lot of things... It is also a judgement only based on the korean version. 
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 589
    Kefo said:
    Jacobin said:
    YashaX said:
    Yeah that looks very sad, it should be the opposite in a pvp focused game- ie the amount of power increase diminishes the more you upgrade gear.
    Totally agree. According to that guide a +15 weapon is 4 times stronger than a +7. A lot of people are going to be in for a very rude awakening when they see past the graphics and flashy combat and realize what BDO is really about.

    Kefo said:
    P2W also involves selling gear in the cash shop. Again though you didn't really address the meat of my argument in that we haven't even seen the cash shop so you may not even be able to earn any money outside of normal in game means.
    Obviously they will do the same thing as AA and put in the P2W at the last possible moment before release when everyone has already pre-ordered.

    They have nothing to gain by being up front about what will be in the cash shop in the West because the instant people see the best mounts in RNG loot crates and and cash2currency people will call them out and they will lose sales.

    That will happen anyways, but only after they have everyone's money.
    If they put in a crazy cash shop for release then they will more then likely be hit with a huge amount of refund requests. If they ignore them then chances are they will start getting chargeback fines. So they have plenty to lose by not being upfront.

    Now if they add in P2w items later on then they alienate a large portion of their playerbase which looks great in the short term for revenue but over the long run is rather stupid. At that point though you decide if the 30 bucks (or whatever founders pack you may have bought) was worth the game time you did get before the game went to the shitter for its cash shop policies.
    That is the thing ultimately... They seem to be taking markets into account when designing localized versions at the moment. The other thing is that the game is going to be B2P regardless of the founders pack, it will cost 30 bucks or whatever when it is out as well. 
  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001
    I do agree that gear progression should have diminishing returns towards the top end, to keep the PvP field even remotely fair. BDO seems to do the opposite, having increasing returns the further up you go the enchant table. That will not be good for the western release, but I guess they have time to adjust the power levels of +16 and up enchants before the Media release goes live in the west.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,478
    If they do not make the top gear worth it how would they entice people to spend real money upgrading . It is a bad way to do it though. If this is true it will not be received well.

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    kitarad said:
    If they do not make the top gear worth it how would they entice people to spend real money upgrading . It is a bad way to do it though. If this is true it will not be received well.
    People still pay for even a slight edge, the difference is that a slight edge won't sink the game.

    Massive power scaling can possibly work well in a pve setting where your heroes start from killing rats and end up fighting dragons and so forth, but its terrible for a pvp game imo. It kind of baffles me that a game like BDO, which doesn't seem to have much focus on pve combat except as a means for grinding, chooses to use the old super power scaling system, ala WoW, Rift, AA, Tera and the like.

    One thing I am almost certain of though is that despite people saying "we don't know how its gonna be in the West because B2P", there is almost zero chance that the game will change in terms of gear scaling. 
    ....
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    If you want video evidence of a guy with good gear who is literally invincible in a 2v1 here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i9Z_Jochjg

    He is 3 shotting them while taking next to zero damage, and he claims his gear is only average compared to the Koreans.
  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207
    Jacobin said:
    If you want video evidence of a guy with good gear who is literally invincible in a 2v1 here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i9Z_Jochjg

    He is 3 shotting them while taking next to zero damage, and he claims his gear is only average compared to the Koreans.
    You either have a skill based PVP system or a gear based one. You can't make a game with both and expect things to go well. This is hilarious and depressing.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    Jacobin said:
    If you want video evidence of a guy with good gear who is literally invincible in a 2v1 here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i9Z_Jochjg

    He is 3 shotting them while taking next to zero damage, and he claims his gear is only average compared to the Koreans.
    Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but there are passive evade, resist, and accuracy stats on gear as well which is another factor that moves the combat away from a skill-based system (for example you can land a hit on the screen but if the enemy has a high evade stat the attack has a chance of not hitting). Although this could be seen as an extension of something like a critical hit system which exists in most mmos, even skill-based/ or action combat ones.


    ....
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,667
    edited January 2016
    When you are a player who is proud of their  PvP abilities based on your own skill you will be very disheartened by how a game allows another player who has better gear triumph over you. However there might be people who enjoy gearing up to their teeth and perhaps using real money advantages to win and fight among themselves. I am wondering are these the types of games catering to a market where the people that spend money to get the best gear fight to lord over each other. I also wonder what type of percentages we are looking at meaning how much of a PvP population like to use money to get the best and win.


    If there is a substantial population in Korea that use money and then fight each other in PvP then they cater to that type of player. Are they trying to look for a similar player base in the West ? See what I am saying is are these type of games only catering to the P2W crowd and if they are how large do you think that population might be in the West compared to the East. It could be a real business strategy. It is appalling as a fair minded player but does it make money I wonder and how sustainable is it and it might work better in a lobby based game over an open world one. Reasons being you can match up like to like meaning paid gear to paid gear. Also if you have a method of gaining enough cash in game to convert and buy cash shop items and then selling them back and buying the gear you want even the pauper player with loads of time can be happy.
    Chamber of Chains
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,263
    edited January 2016
    Jacobin said:
    If you want video evidence of a guy with good gear who is literally invincible in a 2v1 here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i9Z_Jochjg

    He is 3 shotting them while taking next to zero damage, and he claims his gear is only average compared to the Koreans.
    The guy in this video has been playing for a long time, is level 57 and probably has gear around +18 or so. That's average for Korean's who have been playing the game for a while. The people he was fighting just started the game about a week prior to this video and had much lower levels and lesser gear. He likely would never have gone near them but only did to make a point because they did a lot of shit talking on the forums for a few weeks and he went to go gank them to prove a point (that they were not in fact as badass as they said they were).
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited January 2016
    Leiloni said:
    The guy in this video has been playing for a long time, is level 57 and probably has gear around +18 or so. That's average for Korean's who have been playing the game for a while. The people he was fighting just started the game about a week prior to this video and had much lower levels and lesser gear. He likely would never have gone near them but only did to make a point because they did a lot of shit talking on the forums for a few weeks and he went to go gank them to prove a point (that they were not in fact as badass as they said they were).
    I realize these guys were asking for it, but that isn't the point. They are still in the 50s and it shows how even in a 2v1 the gear scaling is insane.

    The whole mentality of 'my gear is so good you can't even touch me, therefore you suck' is repugnant in a pvp game and shows how anti-competitive and weak many 'pvpers' actually are.

    If the guy was actually legit, he wouldn't play with a gear crutch and would instead use a weaker character and still win the 2v1.

    Is wining a race against a minivan with a formula 1 car really something to brag about?
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Jacobin said:
    Leiloni said:
    The guy in this video has been playing for a long time, is level 57 and probably has gear around +18 or so. That's average for Korean's who have been playing the game for a while. The people he was fighting just started the game about a week prior to this video and had much lower levels and lesser gear. He likely would never have gone near them but only did to make a point because they did a lot of shit talking on the forums for a few weeks and he went to go gank them to prove a point (that they were not in fact as badass as they said they were).
    I realize these guys were asking for it, but that isn't the point. They are still in the 50s and it shows how even in a 2v1 the gear scaling is insane.

    The whole mentality of 'my gear is so good you can't even touch me, therefore you suck' is repugnant in a pvp game and shows how anti-competitive and weak many 'pvpers' actually are.

    If the guy was actually legit, he wouldn't play with a gear crutch and would instead use a weaker character and still win the 2v1.

    Is wining a race against a minivan with a formula 1 car really something to brag about?
    You just described just about every pvp game in existence and every real life war. If I just hit max level in wow and goto pvp in my pve greens I don't expect the number 1 pvper in the world to start taking off their gear to make it more of a even fight, or to tell me to wait while they switch to another character to even the odds. Same goes for real world conflicts, you show up with the biggest stick.

    If those people were saying how badass they are and they do in fact show up to a formula 1 race in a minivan then that's on them. They were probably talking shit because they ganged up on some lower levels or it was a 1 vs 7 of them fight. Hopefully they learned the important lesson of not running your mouth off if you can't back up what you say
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,263
    edited January 2016
    Jacobin said:
    Leiloni said:
    The guy in this video has been playing for a long time, is level 57 and probably has gear around +18 or so. That's average for Korean's who have been playing the game for a while. The people he was fighting just started the game about a week prior to this video and had much lower levels and lesser gear. He likely would never have gone near them but only did to make a point because they did a lot of shit talking on the forums for a few weeks and he went to go gank them to prove a point (that they were not in fact as badass as they said they were).
    I realize these guys were asking for it, but that isn't the point. They are still in the 50s and it shows how even in a 2v1 the gear scaling is insane.

    The whole mentality of 'my gear is so good you can't even touch me, therefore you suck' is repugnant in a pvp game and shows how anti-competitive and weak many 'pvpers' actually are.

    If the guy was actually legit, he wouldn't play with a gear crutch and would instead use a weaker character and still win the 2v1.

    Is wining a race against a minivan with a formula 1 car really something to brag about?
    Aside from what Kefo wrote which I agree with, games need progression. That's what they're all about. You need to give players goals and reasons to keep playing. And in an OwPvP MMO, you need to give players reasons to be out in the open world. Being out in the world doing things is when you encounter other players for GvG fights, or PK and there's a lot of grind required to prepare for castle sieges and node wars. You're always going to be out grinding something and getting better at something in this game and any game.

    What do you think would happen if players just hit some easy to reach gear and level cap in an open world MMO? They'd get bored fast. Yes we play to PvP but you don't just PvP all day every day. This isn't an ESO or GW2 style MMO. The entire game is encompassed in one seamless open game world and activities happen within that living, breathing world. I am guessing you've never played such an MMO before. If there weren't reasons - such as getting more levels and better gear - for people to be out grinding all day, there'd be no PVP and people would get bored and the game would die.
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