My Hypothesis

SEANMCAD

I want to clarify my position becuase I can see how lost in conversation people might think I am on both sides of the camp and in many ways I am.

What I put in bold is an alteration of common critics on the general view

Chris Roberts appears to spend more time marketing an unfinished game then he does actually making a game. Given how late he often is on deployments suggests (Its possible) that he is just scamming gamers or at the very least terrible with planning and/or not aware of how much he is taking on. Addtionally, doing things like buying CryEngine doesnt seem to be in the best interest of the stated goals (however given that companies state at the time it might have been a good long term goal)

With that said, listening to interviews he has given on why he is doing this,  what he wants to do with the game overall and why he hasnt been able to do it in the past seems to be very intune with someone who understands games and understands PC games specifically very well. Most scammers dont seem to me to have this refined of an understanding and if they did they could see more opportunity in 'just' action rather than scamming action. Thus I take it on faith that he is just a little misguided on the projects scope and how to make it happen but he has honest intentions in trying to make it happen.

with that said, I dont discount that its possible its all a scam.

Thanks

jcrg99

"Thus I take it on faith that he is just a little misguided on the projects scope and how to make it happen but he has honest intentions in trying to make it happen."

IF your wife come late and tell you that had to work until late, you will believe on her, despite the fact that you had make a call to the office and nobody was there, except someone who attended the call and said to you that everyone left, including your wife. It has been a similar scenario here with people hoping for the success of this game, categorizing themselves as fans, or neutral, it does not matter. It's a unparallel level of denial, despite all evidences.

Roberts purposefully lied to people in some occasions and tried to mislead the current public and even the press, while accusing the press of lying, about what he actually promised in the past to people. You know what I am talking about, since I proved this in another thread.

He purposefully changed the deal, unilaterally, without 100% of his backers, and then shielded himself behind a pool, voted by a minority of the public, and with votes saying No, which cannot be valid in the circumstances of a deal made with individuals. He deliberately lied to the press saying that "the backers wanted", ignoring those backers who said No and the contract/deal where he made a promise to deliver the full game on or before the estimate delivery date. It's not a matter of been late. He promised to show good faith on not been late and what he did, was ignore this promise and, in a shady, breaching the contract considering the nature of the deal, he made whatever, that was not part of the deal. At the same time, he wants to use the deal that he changed, disrespected, breach, to deny refunds. Like he can enforce rules while breaching others. A one-street road contract. This is not honesty. He is not a retard. A newbie. This is clearly an attitude of bad faith with the consumers who bought believing in his words. and promises and warranties.

He deliberately changed a clause in the TOS, with the sole purpose of denying refunds to people, when that was an warranty that he game, in contract, to people who pledged earlier. And he, then, obligates people to accept they quit of such warranty, if they want to play the game, at the same time that transforming that clause in a bait... that simply will be changed adding time, as it moves along.

These are examples of a man, a veteran of the game industry and movie industry, around 30 years as a professional with good part of that as a CEO of companies. And you claim that he is "misguided" and has "honest" intention. Poor Paladin of Honesty.

How can you claim that he has honest intentions when he is got lying, been deceptive both to press and people, at the same time that creating the most ridiculous theories, without nothing to back him up, to accuse press and others of lying?

You think that he has honest intentions, but you cant be sure, and the evidences shown the contrary. Someone with honest intentions does not lie in the face of people and press, regularly, while accusing them of lying without any evidence, just a ridiculous conspiracy theory. And showing an incredible party of contradictions in his statements, first saying that they shouldn't be employees, but Derek Smart, then saying that should be employees angry. Seriously.

This guy already proven again and again that his word has no value and he will do and say whatever is necessary to get your money. He does not care with public satisfaction. He now based his entire business on making baits to get whales, ignoring how bad will be the experience for the rest, the long wait, at the same time creating all kinds of incentives for whales and hampering, making it harder to anyone else to have fun, encouraging them to pay more and more, to risk more and more of their money, while showing no respect to his words and promises, and wasting money with a lot of embezzlment , fancy offices and stuff like that.

And please, do not pretend that I am saying that he is deceptive because he is late, because that is not what I am saying. If you interpreted in such way, again, please re-read 10 times what I wrote before replying.

SEANMCAD

jcrg99 said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

 Reason for that is because about 1 1/2 years ago after following it for about a week I came to the conclusion that this was not a game to watch closely but rather to check in a few years later to see how its going. Generally speaking (not always) if a release date is missed then I drop it off my radar completely and add about 12 months to my timeline before looking into it again. VR is different, I follow VR stories fairly closely

Kefo

SEANMCAD said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

So then the whole point of this thread is meaningless if you don't actually have a clue.

Brenelael

jcrg99 said:

Here's my "Hypothesis":

You are completely obsessed with this game and this company to the point where this little crusade of yours has taken over a huge part of your life for years now. You spend almost every waking hour looking up stuff about this game and company and posting here, on YouTube and on at least a half dozen other sites I personally know of.

Your "Proof" consists almost entirely of conjecture, theories and some pretty crazy conspiracies where you have used so many complete logical fallacies to jump to rediculus conclusions that it boggles the mind that this much crazy could come from one person. You've gotten to the point where you have become a joke to most of the community and a lot of people including myself just simply ignore you most of the time.

What have you got to show for all of this? Absolutely nothing as anyone with half a brain can see right through your particular brand of BS. Star Citizen just keeps rolling right along raking in the millions and you've had absolutely zero impact on either the game development or the crowd funding campaign. I've even personally witnessed at least a half dozen people stating that because of you they are going to go buy a ship package right now.

You are way more rabidly obsessed with this game and company than any fan could ever possibly hope to achieve. I'm positive that nothing I've said here will have any affect on you as others have tried over the years and all have failed because there are certain levels of complete crazy you just can't fix. You really need professional help.

Okay... I'll go back to ignoring you now.

Bren

SEANMCAD

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

So then the whole point of this thread is meaningless if you don't actually have a clue.

wow!

that was mean

Kefo

SEANMCAD said:

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

So then the whole point of this thread is meaningless if you don't actually have a clue.

wow!

that was mean

Not really since you said yourself you don't follow this game enough to have a clue. 

Wizardry

@OP...

Well there is some ideals here that are both good and bad.Example the engine,i assume that was one of the stretch goals,which means not a bad idea since the cost was covered.

The first paragraph,i believe 99% that he is a bit incompetent but that is also to be expected because this ENTIRE game was never planned out,they are winging it as ideas come out and new stretch goals are made.
You can't even build a team around that type of game design because you never what your going to need next so for example they are outsourcing ship builds,that is an added cost right there.

As to the honesty part,i feel it is a little of both.The reason is yes he has good intentions of making a great game, i do believe that but at the same time he is soaking supporters for more money than is needed but back to the first paragraph,he is not good at managing the game or the money so he needs to basically ripoff supporters for more than what is needed.

SEANMCAD

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

So then the whole point of this thread is meaningless if you don't actually have a clue.

wow!

that was mean

Not really since you said yourself you don't follow this game enough to have a clue. 

I think its cruel and mean to think that a person has to know everything there is to know about a subject in order to know anything whatseover about. That level of black and white living is cruel.

Not to mention I am a critic of SC and you still feel the need for cruel attacks.

Turrican187

SEANMCAD said:

jcrg99 said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

 Reason for that is because about 1 1/2 years ago after following it for about a week I came to the conclusion that this was not a game to watch closely but rather to check in a few years later to see how its going. Generally speaking (not always) if a release date is missed then I drop it off my radar completely and add about 12 months to my timeline before looking into it again. VR is different, I follow VR stories fairly closely

Come back in two more years, things will be more sorted (in any way) then.

Turrican187

Sephiroso said:

[mod edit]

If you have fed him now you have to take him home

Kefo

SEANMCAD said:

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

So then the whole point of this thread is meaningless if you don't actually have a clue.

wow!

that was mean

Not really since you said yourself you don't follow this game enough to have a clue. 

I think its cruel and mean to think that a person has to know everything there is to know about a subject in order to know anything whatseover about. That level of black and white living is cruel.

Not to mention I am a critic of SC and you still feel the need for cruel attacks.

I never said you had to know everything. I was just pointing out that this thread is pointless if you don't follow the game enough to have a clue.

I'll let you in on a little secret. Even if you are my best friend and posted the exact same thing my response would stay the same lol.

SEANMCAD

Turrican187 said:

SEANMCAD said:

jcrg99 said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

 Reason for that is because about 1 1/2 years ago after following it for about a week I came to the conclusion that this was not a game to watch closely but rather to check in a few years later to see how its going. Generally speaking (not always) if a release date is missed then I drop it off my radar completely and add about 12 months to my timeline before looking into it again. VR is different, I follow VR stories fairly closely

Come back in two more years, things will be more sorted (in any way) then.

I suspect that is true

Kefo

Turrican187 said:

Sephiroso said:

[mod edit]

If you have fed him now you have to take him home

I have enough pets already. Don't need another

SEANMCAD

Kefo said:

Turrican187 said:

Sephiroso said:

[mod edit]

If you have fed him now you have to take him home

I have enough pets already. Don't need another

on reading my OP I am not sure what words or language I used to justify people just jumping right in with the flaming, but its the internet I should not be surprised

Roin

SEANMCAD said:

Kefo said:

Turrican187 said:

Sephiroso said:

[mod edit]

If you have fed him now you have to take him home

I have enough pets already. Don't need another

on reading my OP I am not sure what words or language I used to justify people just jumping right in with the flaming, but its the internet I should not be surprised


Welcome to MMORPG.com's SC forum.

Adjuvant1

SEANMCAD said:

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

the short answer to your question is that I dont follow the game closely enough to have a clue. AKA I never called the office.

So then the whole point of this thread is meaningless if you don't actually have a clue.

wow!

that was mean

Not really since you said yourself you don't follow this game enough to have a clue. 

I think its cruel and mean to think that a person has to know everything there is to know about a subject in order to know anything whatseover about. That level of black and white living is cruel.

Not to mention I am a critic of SC and you still feel the need for cruel attacks.

Here's the thing many people just don't get, whether reading opinions or writing opinions. You can "think" you're entitled to express your opinion all you like, but you are not. You are entitled to express your educated opinion.

Now, I'm not harping on you specifically, I don't care what people say about this game or that game, I don't mind predictions. The issue that comes into play entirely too often is that people are not taking the time to be discerning critics, they are disingenuous. If, when countered with, "how do you know this", you cannot substantiate your claim with applicable data other than "nebulous feeling", there is a real problem, and people, observers, no less deserve an explanation when it's requested.

So I have to say I agree with Kefo in this instance. I'm not going to run around every thread copy pasting. Maybe enough people will read this once for the sentiment to carry on. We need a better practice than "everyone is an expert", or there become no standards, and without standards there is no context. Then every paragraph, every sentence, every word becomes meaningless.

SEANMCAD

Adjuvant1 said:

Here's the thing many people just don't get, whether reading opinions or writing opinions. You can "think" you're entitled to express your opinion all you like, but you are not. You are entitled to express your educated opinion.

Now, I'm not harping on you specifically, I don't care what people say about this game or that game, I don't mind predictions. The issue that comes into play entirely too often is that people are not taking the time to be discerning critics, they are disingenuous. If, when countered with, "how do you know this", you cannot substantiate your claim with applicable data other than "nebulous feeling", there is a real problem, and people, observers, no less deserve an explanation when it's requested.

So I have to say I agree with Kefo in this instance. I'm not going to run around every thread copy pasting. Maybe enough people will read this once for the sentiment to carry on. We need a better practice than "everyone is an expert", or there become no standards, and without standards there is no context. Then every paragraph, every sentence, every word becomes meaningless.

actually I am not 'entitled' to anything in this context its a gross misuse of the word.

second off, you just wrong. One can express their opinion based on incomplete knowledge and its EXTREEMLY common place to do so. What would be considered rude however is to suggest your opinion is fact based on you advertising that you know all the facts when you dont. (not you specifically just generally speaking)

more over, to be completely frank, your response came off as highly defensive as if you are struggling to keep whatever point you have in mind in tact. just ease up and stop taking peoples opinions so radically serious.

This lack of moderation has got to stop.

Herase

While I would say another thread wasn't really needed, I find your post a lot more refreshing tbh, you give your thoughts and opinion without trying pass it as a fact, without insulting anyone and actually take a neutral look, giving the good and bad. So for, that I give a thumbs up.

Roin said:

Welcome to MMORPG.com's SC forum.

The funny thing is the people commenting aren't even supports of the game and are actually the complete opposite. Very odd don't you think?

SEANMCAD

what I dont understand is that more than a year ago and with about 1 week of following the game I could tell it could very well end up being either a poorly managed project all the way to outright scam. So it makes logical sense at that point to NOT spend hours collecting tons of data points to proove to myself even more that I should wait.

So with that I just wonder why the critics of this game spend so much time researching evidence to debunk it even more. What is the objective with that? If they are smart they are not doing it to convince themselves because its already fairly clear with a just a cursory look at the top level data. 

So why? is it because they are an empathic bunch who wish to protect people from the game? Personality of posting appears clearly not. So whats the objective? I dont know.

Kefo

SEANMCAD said:

what I dont understand is that more than a year ago and with about 1 week of following the game I could tell it could very well end up being either a poorly managed project all the way to outright scam. So it makes logical sense at that point to NOT spend hours collecting tons of data points to proove to myself even more that I should wait.

So with that I just wonder why the critics of this game spend so much time researching evidence to debunk it even more. What is the objective with that? If they are smart they are not doing it to convince themselves because its already fairly clear with a just a cursory look at the top level data. 

So why? is it because they are an empathic bunch who wish to protect people from the game? Personality of posting appears clearly not. So whats the objective? I dont know.

For me personally I enjoy the debate with others and seeing some of the hilarious posts coming from either side of the fence.

Also you don't have to do a lot of digging to find what you need generally since CR tends to speak before he thinks and ends up burying his foot in his mouth sometimes.

SEANMCAD

Kefo said:

SEANMCAD said:

what I dont understand is that more than a year ago and with about 1 week of following the game I could tell it could very well end up being either a poorly managed project all the way to outright scam. So it makes logical sense at that point to NOT spend hours collecting tons of data points to proove to myself even more that I should wait.

So with that I just wonder why the critics of this game spend so much time researching evidence to debunk it even more. What is the objective with that? If they are smart they are not doing it to convince themselves because its already fairly clear with a just a cursory look at the top level data. 

So why? is it because they are an empathic bunch who wish to protect people from the game? Personality of posting appears clearly not. So whats the objective? I dont know.

For me personally I enjoy the debate with others and seeing some of the hilarious posts coming from either side of the fence.

Also you don't have to do a lot of digging to find what you need generally since CR tends to speak before he thinks and ends up burying his foot in his mouth sometimes.

fair enough and I agree with that last post.

One of my first thoughts a year ago was 'building ships in a hanger is light years away from building a combat engine in a networking environment, let me wait to see how he handles that'

well clearly all those massive amounts of polygons he had the team add to the ships was problematic when the ships left the hanger.

That said, that is just inexperiences and over optomism I think, not evidence of scamming

MoonKnightt

I'm an author. I write romance and fantasy. Sometimes separate and sometimes together. Inexperience or mistake prone authors will take on projects or create projects they love in the world of fiction. I know one woman who tried to write a high fantasy series she came up with when she was a teenager.


It had to be perfect, earth shattering, be different, all the things Chris Roberts claims pretty much for his game. She went too big and was never happy. She had to change this character, this plot, this county and several races. What happened is she kept chasing her tail in a circle and never got anywhere.


She drowned herself in her own passion and scope of the project herself. She missed her deadline, and lost support from her publisher.  It was a ugly mess because she over extended herself and thought she could so everything. She failed and it took her years to realize this and a good amount of money was wasted.


Everything Chris Roberts has said and has done reminds me of this author. I think Star Citizen ends up the very same way. An uncompleted projected that had the life choked out of it because it's creator's passion did not reflect the reality of what could be done. I hope I am wrong because I'd be interested in the game. The only ship I have is the free one I got with the purchase of a AMD card.

SEANMCAD

MoonKnightt said:

I'm an author. I write romance and fantasy. Sometimes separate and sometimes together. Inexperience or mistake prone authors will take on projects or create projects they love in the world of fiction. I know one woman who tried to write a high fantasy series she came up with when she was a teenager.


It had to be perfect, earth shattering, be different, all the things Chris Roberts claims pretty much for his game. She went too big and was never happy. She had to change this character, this plot, this county and several races. What happened is she kept chasing her tail in a circle and never got anywhere.


She drowned herself in her own passion and scope of the project herself. She missed her deadline, and lost support from her publisher.  It was a ugly mess because she over extended herself and thought she could so everything. She failed and it took her years to realize this and a good amount of money was wasted.


Everything Chris Roberts has said and has done reminds me of this author. I think Star Citizen ends up the very same way. An uncompleted projected that had the life choked out of it because it's creator's passion did not reflect the reality of what could be done. I hope I am wrong because I'd be interested in the game. The only ship I have is the free one I got with the purchase of a AMD card.

the inverse of that can cause developers to not be innovative and runs the risk of mediocre projects. As you likely know the best creative people have a personality style that is counter productive to too much structure but in all fairness their weakness is difficultly in being a finisher

Brenics

https://t.co/8Vn8ATmt50

When I listen to her it seems like she is acting all the time and talking out the side of her mouth. Plus she isn't good at acting at least to me.

It comes down to trust, Roberts and her have shown it is hard to trust either one.

Have Fun, but wait for it! Won't be much longer!

Kefo

SEANMCAD said:

MoonKnightt said:

I'm an author. I write romance and fantasy. Sometimes separate and sometimes together. Inexperience or mistake prone authors will take on projects or create projects they love in the world of fiction. I know one woman who tried to write a high fantasy series she came up with when she was a teenager.


It had to be perfect, earth shattering, be different, all the things Chris Roberts claims pretty much for his game. She went too big and was never happy. She had to change this character, this plot, this county and several races. What happened is she kept chasing her tail in a circle and never got anywhere.


She drowned herself in her own passion and scope of the project herself. She missed her deadline, and lost support from her publisher.  It was a ugly mess because she over extended herself and thought she could so everything. She failed and it took her years to realize this and a good amount of money was wasted.


Everything Chris Roberts has said and has done reminds me of this author. I think Star Citizen ends up the very same way. An uncompleted projected that had the life choked out of it because it's creator's passion did not reflect the reality of what could be done. I hope I am wrong because I'd be interested in the game. The only ship I have is the free one I got with the purchase of a AMD card.

the inverse of that can cause developers to not be innovative and runs the risk of mediocre projects. As you likely know the best creative people have a personality style that is counter productive to too much structure but in all fairness their weakness is difficultly in being a finisher

That's why you need to have someone with a strong will and isn't afraid to tell the boss they are making stupid decisions. Unfortunately it doesn't look like there is anyone like that to bring Chris into line