You didn't pay real dollars for them. You got them playing.
And I will do the same in SC.
Have fun
PS: Just a reminder ... you got ships in the E:D Kickstarter too when pledging ... if you believed that one had to earn every ship in game in E:D. And no, neither Eagle nor Cobra is a starter ship.
But they don't need to drain this fee from people who spend $1000?
So its a tax on the pleebs
Money drains in an MMO drain from everyone. I can recommend the quarterly reports from the economic analyser CCP has in its EVE Online staff. He is great at explaining the way an MMO economy works.
I was an ArcheAge founder. You dont get much advantage. The reason why they are stronger in ArcheAge is TIME IN GAME.
This is bullshit, ArcheAge is pure p2w. One of the famous video is this one where Kooncoon show what happens if you pull your creditcard. First fighting in Arena with normal gear and then with his creditcard gear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG06WAxoR9k
Understandable that people are a bit afraid for this happening in Star Citizen.
We are always in a race what our intelligence can do for us and what our intelligence does to us.
I was an ArcheAge founder. You dont get much advantage. The reason why they are stronger in ArcheAge is TIME IN GAME.
This is bullshit, ArcheAge is pure p2w. One of the famous video is this one where Kocoon show what happens if you pull your creditcard. First fighting with normal gear and then with his creditcard gear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG06WAxoR9k
Understandable that people are a bit afraid for this happening in Star Citizen.
ah yes I forgot actually.
HOWEVER, that still dosent give founders any more advantage other than they spent more money that not.
I think the concern with SC is that it would be literally impossible to match founders
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I was an ArcheAge founder. You dont get much advantage. The reason why they are stronger in ArcheAge is TIME IN GAME.
This is bullshit, ArcheAge is pure p2w. One of the famous video is this one where Kocoon show what happens if you pull your creditcard. First fighting with normal gear and then with his creditcard gear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG06WAxoR9k
Understandable that people are a bit afraid for this happening in Star Citizen.
ah yes I forgot actually.
HOWEVER, that still dosent give founders any more advantage other than they spent more money that not.
I think the concern with SC is that it would be literally impossible to match founders
There is no "HOWEVER" in this video. It is a pure credit-card win.
And I hope that SC will do differently if it is (ever) finished With the facts on the table it is clear to me now that it is pay2win. Which I am against.
Post edited by LoveRemovalMachine on
We are always in a race what our intelligence can do for us and what our intelligence does to us.
But they don't need to drain this fee from people who spend $1000?
So its a tax on the pleebs
Money drains in an MMO drain from everyone. I can recommend the quarterly reports from the economic analyser CCP has in its EVE Online staff. He is great at explaining the way an MMO economy works.
Have fun
what you said is irrelevant to what i said.
If you have life time insurance, you don't pay the insurance fee thus the people that spend $1000 are exempt from the insurance fee tax.
If you have life time insurance, you don't pay the insurance fee thus the people that spend $1000 are exempt from the insurance fee tax.
That is a paid advantage.
An advantage that is irrelevant after one or two weeks of gaming, when everyone has enough money to easily pay any insurance fees necessary - and the cost of insurance making only a small dent in their in game cash reserves.
To give you an example from Elite:Dangerous ....
if E:D would have LTI and all my ships would be LTI ships, my cash would be at 100 units (ANY unit you want).
As E:D does not have LTI and I do have to pay insurance, my cash is at 95 units.
So LTI vs. normal insurance would be 5 %. A difference, but an irrelevant difference. Certainly not a game-breaking, game-changing difference. Certainly not a difference as large as in the ArcheAge example given a few posts above (however, i do not play ArcheAge myself and i do not know if that video shows the true situation - in my experience if you suck in PvP, no amount of buffs or equipment (paid with a credit card) makes you into a good PvP player ... in ANY game).
I'm wondering about how these Founders that spend $1000 to $10,000 on these ships and privileges will be handled once the PU goes live to the public. As a new player in the PU I would get my starting ship and try to make a name for myself and make the money to build and improve my ship in a hostile universe ruled by elitist founders and big guilds with $10,000 ships and all that comes with that.
I am currently experiencing this in ArchAge. I started 5 months ago from scratch and I've been able to struggle to get to 3000 Gearscore amid these predators that grief and farm normal players. The Alpha players had a year of bugs, hacks, exploits to get a GearScore of 6200. PVP has died because we weak players don't go into any Arena's and stay in the "safe" zones. Doing safe merchant trade runs to scratch out slow improvements which (another topic) is hamstrung with a horrible RNG system and Cash Shop.
But this could even be worse. These Elitist founders with HUGE chips on their shoulders for being founders have personally invested thousands of real world dollars that will require preferential treatment by the GM's to allow them to get away with "fun" grieving and dominance. Its quite obvious this will be the case based on all these threads and their attitudes.
That said, my personality would hate them and not have anything to do with them. So I would either:
A: join a "Carebear" guild or B: go solo and try to ignore the player population and toxic factions.
The issue you talk about is power curve, gear progression and RNG. Founders and IRL money are not a part of this equation, it would have happened regardless.
>>> The game is about people outbidding each other, it is about who can afford the most expensive ships. >>>
Attention : personal opinion following ;-)
Anyone believing that and buying an expensive ship because of it will have an ugly awakening when Goonrathi wolf-packs (or similar suicide hunting squads in cheap ships) will descend on the "most expensive ships" piloted by solo pilots on Day 1 of the Persistent Universe, disabling those expensive ships and boarding them. Then they will smear the remains of the solo pilot across the inner cockpit window with extreme prejudice. They then will transfer those newly gained ships into the most distant pirate havens and use them as the logistical backbone of their distant pirate empires.
It has already started in the Alpha testing - you can watch the hunter pack videos on Youtube.
This wont work forever as people learn to use multiplayer player crews on multiplayer ships, anti-boarding defense player marines and player escort flyers ... but i predict that the above mentioned scenario will work well for a short while after PU game launch.
>>> The game is about people outbidding each other, it is about who can afford the most expensive ships. >>>
Anyone believing that and buying an expensive ship because of it will have an ugly awakening when Goonrathi wolf-packs (or similar hunting squads in cheap ships) will descend on the "most expensive ships" piloted by solo pilots on Day 1 of the Persistent Universe, disabling those expensive ships and boarding them. Then they will smear the remains of the solo pilot across the inner cockpit window with extreme prejudice.
It has already started in the Alpha testing - you can watch the hunter pack videos on Youtube.
Have fun
May not want to talk about this much. This could be a serious issue for the game that would drive away allot of people. I would say worse case is they lose players thus losing money but SC already secured the money up front.
May not want to talk about this much. This could be a serious issue for the game that would drive away allot of people. I would say worse case is they lose players thus losing money but SC already secured the money up front.
Player hunting packs during Alpha testing are only an issue because NPC police ships have not been activated yet. Stanton is supposed to be a system with a heavy police/advocacy presence.
There WILL be systems in SC that WILL be dangerous for carebears. Just like in EVE Online. Putting the PvE/PvP slider to the maximum PvE side won't help much if you are solo-flying a fat slow ship full of precious cargo in the lawless systems. And that is IMHO as it should be.
Those people that do not like that better stay in the inner, heavily policed systems and leave their PvE/PvP slider fully on the PvE side.
SC is smelling money, the 20 $2500 ships were sold out in 1 minute!
Chris roberts bought a mansion in the Pacific Palisades, he will need money to support it.
People who think this is about the game, don't really understand this game yet, the delays are intentional.
The game is about people outbidding each other, it is about who can afford the most expensive ships.
"People who think this is about the game, don't really understand this game yet, the delays are intentional."
Let's make it worse with the tinfoil hat on:
Imagine it is true then what stops CIG to go a step further and buy some of
their own ships and sell them on the grey market for twice the amount. Real defrauders would go so far.
/the tinfoil hat ends here.
My personal real feeling about the case is that CIG never expected it was such a success selling ships but taking advantage of it now. Easy money. For this reason alone it is not wise to buy into this game until after release and a lot of reviews and you also know if it is pay2win or not. it is pay2win.
Post edited by LoveRemovalMachine on
We are always in a race what our intelligence can do for us and what our intelligence does to us.
I wish I could describe in words the personality's of the kind of player that would do anything to be the top 1% and lord it over others.
I once came across this very, very limited video game, where all you did was kick field goals. Kick a field goal, get a point. Miss a field goal, points go back to zero. Some guy had kicked 6,800 some consecutive field goals. There is always going to be that guy. Someone for whom it is amusing to be the best at something that doesn't actually mean anything.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Everything in this thread presupposes one thing...there will be an ACTUAL game and one that is close to what CR has claimed he can deliver.
Neither of those things are close to reality yet.
Cart meet horse, (way behind you at this moment)
I think that will never happen because of the last part of your sentence....'claimed he can deliever'
I swear to god some around here would actually be ticked off if daddy took them to the ball game instead of the park to hunt for ant hills because he 'promised' that later instead of the former
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Everything in this thread presupposes one thing...there will be an ACTUAL game and one that is close to what CR has claimed he can deliver.
Neither of those things are close to reality yet.
Cart meet horse, (way behind you at this moment)
I think that will never happen because of the last part of your sentence....'claimed he can deliever'
I swear to god some around here would actually be ticked off if daddy took them to the ball game instead of the park to hunt for ant hills because he 'promised' that later instead of the former
Yeah I dont think even the most hardcore white knight believes he will deliver what he claimed he could deliver 3 years ago. So thats all semantics.
I think most people are hoping for a stable place that they can fly around and do what EVE does. With better graphics. I think that is a stretch right now.
Everything in this thread presupposes one thing...there will be an ACTUAL game and one that is close to what CR has claimed he can deliver.
Neither of those things are close to reality yet.
Cart meet horse, (way behind you at this moment)
I think that will never happen because of the last part of your sentence....'claimed he can deliever'
I swear to god some around here would actually be ticked off if daddy took them to the ball game instead of the park to hunt for ant hills because he 'promised' that later instead of the former
Yeah I dont think even the most hardcore white knight believes he will deliver what he claimed he could deliver 3 years ago. So thats all semantics.
I think most people are hoping for a stable place that they can fly around and do what EVE does. With better graphics. I think that is a stretch right now.
you misunderstood me. I will ask you to read it one more time before I type it again in a different way please.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
>>> The game is about people outbidding each other, it is about who can afford the most expensive ships. >>>
Attention : personal opinion following ;-)
Anyone believing that and buying an expensive ship because of it will have an ugly awakening when Goonrathi wolf-packs (or similar suicide hunting squads in cheap ships) will descend on the "most expensive ships" piloted by solo pilots on Day 1 of the Persistent Universe, disabling those expensive ships and boarding them. Then they will smear the remains of the solo pilot across the inner cockpit window with extreme prejudice. They then will transfer those newly gained ships into the most distant pirate havens and use them as the logistical backbone of their distant pirate empires.
It has already started in the Alpha testing - you can watch the hunter pack videos on Youtube.
This wont work forever as people learn to use multiplayer player crews on multiplayer ships, anti-boarding defense player marines and player escort flyers ... but i predict that the above mentioned scenario will work well for a short while after PU game launch.
Have fun
Your under the assumption that people who buy the expensive ships will try to solo pilot it and not bring in their friends to help man all the systems plus have them fly support ships to deal with the smaller swarms of fighters. I'm sure there will be some of that mindset for pvp but the smart ones will have their guildmates and friends helping out.
Also you don't touch on the fact that some of these ships aren't for pvp. You can set the pvp slider to its lowest setting, get in your massive, expensive hauler (or insert ship of your choice) and start making a huge profit right off the bat.
Your argument falls apart under those above assumptions.
No I got it. You used my quote to semi agree (without actually having the guts to do it) which to me means you yourself dont think he will deliver what he claimed he could. Now whether youre the whitest of white knights or not only you know. But I stand by what I said that not many if anyone (which includes you) still think he can deliver what he said he could 3 years ago.
I am not going to play the semantics take things out of context game with you. I said what I said and stick to it. You agree with it you just dont have the balls to say it. Which is OK.
No I got it. You used my quote to semi agree (without actually having the guts to do it) which to me means you yourself dont think he will deliver what he claimed he could. Now whether youre the whitest of white knights or not only you know. But I stand by what I said that not many if anyone (which includes you) still think he can deliver what he said he could 3 years ago.
I am not going to play the semantics take things out of context game with you. I said what I said and stick to it. You agree with it you just dont have the balls to say it. Which is OK.
what I was trying to communicate in the last sentence is that even if he delievers 1000x times more than what he stated your last few words would still make it true. aka unless he delievers EXACTLY to a EXACT tee what he orginally said and nothing whatsoever more, then he failed.
that last part is what 'protects' the statement so to speak.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Also you don't touch on the fact that some of these ships aren't for pvp. You can set the pvp slider to its lowest setting, get in your massive, expensive hauler (or insert ship of your choice) and start making a huge profit right off the bat.
Your argument falls apart under those above assumptions.
You seem to forget that at the beginning of the game people simple do not yet have the in game money to fill up a Hull-D or Hull-E... because they are so frigging HUGE. This has already been mentioned by the devs.
So NO ... they will NOT make a huge profit right off the bat, with or without massive, expensive haulers.
It will take them a few days to get enough cash to fill up their shinies with cargo.
Profit margins will be smaller in the inner, well policed systems. Each of those players with their massive, expensive haulers will have to compete with 9 other massive, expensive NPC haulers in a 90:10 economy, keeping their margins down. But its easy money, with a small degree of risk.
Meanwhile another player with his more moderate Hull-C or Freelancer or Constellation Taurus may risk a run into an outer system, with a much higher margin and therefore more profit. He may have good escort friends. He may have connections with the local player pirates. This other player - with a much smaller ship - may make profit faster than the other guy with the Hull-E, especially at the beginning. He may even keep that edge if he switches to illegal products like drugs or alien weapons (and outruns or outsmarts customs and navy vessels).
Personally i believe that later in the game - just like in Elite:Dangerous - standard trade IS the best way from rags to riches. But not in the beginning.
Comments
Have fun
PS:
Just a reminder ... you got ships in the E:D Kickstarter too when pledging ... if you believed that one had to earn every ship in game in E:D. And no, neither Eagle nor Cobra is a starter ship.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/description
"....start in an Imperial Colony with an Imperial Eagle Mk II Fighter with upgraded weapons and shields ..."
"...start in a Federal border system with a basic Cobra Mk III loaded with cargo worth 1,000 CR..."
"..start in an anarchic Frontier system with a stolen but upgraded Cobra Mk III .."
"..start on the edge of explored space with a long range version of the Cobra Mk III .."
The reason why they are stronger in ArcheAge is TIME IN GAME.
that said, I heard that CR does plan to 'equalize' the ship problem at launch but I missed how he plans to do it.
I think a 4 year old child with zero gaming experince could tell the ship imballance is something that will have to be addressed at launch
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Have fun
One of the famous video is this one where Kooncoon show what happens if you pull your creditcard. First fighting in Arena with normal gear and then with his creditcard gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG06WAxoR9k
Understandable that people are a bit afraid for this happening in Star Citizen.
ah yes I forgot actually.
HOWEVER, that still dosent give founders any more advantage other than they spent more money that not.
I think the concern with SC is that it would be literally impossible to match founders
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
And I hope that SC will do differently if it is (ever) finished
With the facts on the table it is clear to me now that it is pay2win.
Which I am against.
If you have life time insurance, you don't pay the insurance fee thus the people that spend $1000 are exempt from the insurance fee tax.
That is a paid advantage.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
To give you an example from Elite:Dangerous ....
if E:D would have LTI and all my ships would be LTI ships, my cash would be at 100 units (ANY unit you want).
As E:D does not have LTI and I do have to pay insurance, my cash is at 95 units.
So LTI vs. normal insurance would be 5 %. A difference, but an irrelevant difference. Certainly not a game-breaking, game-changing difference. Certainly not a difference as large as in the ArcheAge example given a few posts above (however, i do not play ArcheAge myself and i do not know if that video shows the true situation - in my experience if you suck in PvP, no amount of buffs or equipment (paid with a credit card) makes you into a good PvP player ... in ANY game).
Have fun
Chris roberts bought a mansion in the Pacific Palisades, he will need money to support it.
People who think this is about the game, don't really understand this game yet, the delays are intentional.
The game is about people outbidding each other, it is about who can afford the most expensive ships.
In this case yes they will have an advantage. SC PR team is just trying to play it off as not a big deal, in their opinion.
Its up there with "Don't take this personally", and then someone proceeds to insult you.
Attention : personal opinion following ;-)
Anyone believing that and buying an expensive ship because of it will have an ugly awakening when Goonrathi wolf-packs (or similar suicide hunting squads in cheap ships) will descend on the "most expensive ships" piloted by solo pilots on Day 1 of the Persistent Universe, disabling those expensive ships and boarding them. Then they will smear the remains of the solo pilot across the inner cockpit window with extreme prejudice. They then will transfer those newly gained ships into the most distant pirate havens and use them as the logistical backbone of their distant pirate empires.
It has already started in the Alpha testing - you can watch the hunter pack videos on Youtube.
This wont work forever as people learn to use multiplayer player crews on multiplayer ships, anti-boarding defense player marines and player escort flyers ... but i predict that the above mentioned scenario will work well for a short while after PU game launch.
Have fun
There WILL be systems in SC that WILL be dangerous for carebears. Just like in EVE Online. Putting the PvE/PvP slider to the maximum PvE side won't help much if you are solo-flying a fat slow ship full of precious cargo in the lawless systems. And that is IMHO as it should be.
Those people that do not like that better stay in the inner, heavily policed systems and leave their PvE/PvP slider fully on the PvE side.
Have fun
Let's make it worse with the tinfoil hat on:
Imagine it is true then what stops CIG to go a step further and buy some of their own ships and sell them on the grey market for twice the amount. Real defrauders would go so far.
/the tinfoil hat ends here.
My personal real feeling about the case is that CIG never expected it was such a success selling ships but taking advantage of it now. Easy money.
For this reason alone it is not wise to buy into this game until after release and a lot of reviews and you also know if it is pay2win or not. it is pay2win.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Neither of those things are close to reality yet.
Cart meet horse, (way behind you at this moment)
I swear to god some around here would actually be ticked off if daddy took them to the ball game instead of the park to hunt for ant hills because he 'promised' that later instead of the former
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think most people are hoping for a stable place that they can fly around and do what EVE does. With better graphics. I think that is a stretch right now.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Also you don't touch on the fact that some of these ships aren't for pvp. You can set the pvp slider to its lowest setting, get in your massive, expensive hauler (or insert ship of your choice) and start making a huge profit right off the bat.
Your argument falls apart under those above assumptions.
I am not going to play the semantics take things out of context game with you. I said what I said and stick to it. You agree with it you just dont have the balls to say it. Which is OK.
that last part is what 'protects' the statement so to speak.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
So NO ... they will NOT make a huge profit right off the bat, with or without massive, expensive haulers.
It will take them a few days to get enough cash to fill up their shinies with cargo.
Profit margins will be smaller in the inner, well policed systems. Each of those players with their massive, expensive haulers will have to compete with 9 other massive, expensive NPC haulers in a 90:10 economy, keeping their margins down. But its easy money, with a small degree of risk.
Meanwhile another player with his more moderate Hull-C or Freelancer or Constellation Taurus may risk a run into an outer system, with a much higher margin and therefore more profit. He may have good escort friends. He may have connections with the local player pirates. This other player - with a much smaller ship - may make profit faster than the other guy with the Hull-E, especially at the beginning. He may even keep that edge if he switches to illegal products like drugs or alien weapons (and outruns or outsmarts customs and navy vessels).
Personally i believe that later in the game - just like in Elite:Dangerous - standard trade IS the best way from rags to riches. But not in the beginning.
Have fun