The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
At this case, we are free to evaluate the game as a finished game now, instead an Alpha, since the promise was a finished game. So, if what is released accomplish with the promise, according with them, let's make some reviews of the released Star Citizen, shall we?
The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
At this case, we are free to evaluate the game as a finished game now, instead an Alpha, since the promise was a finished game. So, if what is released accomplish with the promise, according with them, let's make some reviews of the released Star Citizen, shall we?
This is nothing like the Pathfinder debacle.
There is a big difference between classifying your game as "working", and classifying it as being in "live operation" aka soft launched.
The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
At this case, we are free to evaluate the game as a finished game now, instead an Alpha, since the promise was a finished game. So, if what is released accomplish with the promise, according with them, let's make some reviews of the released Star Citizen, shall we?
This is nothing like the Pathfinder debacle.
There is a big difference between classifying your game as "working", and classifying it as being in "live operation" aka soft launched.
They are nowhere near the same.
They just have to implement one or two mechanics and a little gameplay into this .. well at least this is how their reply to the refund reads.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Except for, you know, the links she put in that article to prove her point or maybe disprove it depending on your interpretation.
Studies show reading newspaper retractions actually strengthens people's
belief in the original article that was being retracted. When people
say there is no proof that usually means that there is no proof that
supports the conclusion they would like believe and therefore you need
to provide more proof which will surely show that what they would like
to believe is the truth.
I wonder what would possible make them stop refunding money... You would think with over 100 million that refunding a few people each month would not be an issue.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
Well done, Chris Roberts. Well done RSI. Well done CGI.
Well, let me be the first (in this forum) to congratulate CR and his team to have sucessfully accomplished the kickstarter project goals and able to keep all the money he was given.
To all SC backers (who still and will continue to support CR and SC): congratulations, the long wait has come to an end. The tunnel has been crossed. SC is a game you all have been waiting for. Let me say it again with big smile in my face: congratulations.
This is a joke right? Ninty nine percent of companies put they dont have to refund in their tos. The way to get a refund is not act like an asshat when you request it.
The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
At this case, we are free to evaluate the game as a finished game now, instead an Alpha, since the promise was a finished game. So, if what is released accomplish with the promise, according with them, let's make some reviews of the released Star Citizen, shall we?
This is nothing like the Pathfinder debacle.
There is a big difference between classifying your game as "working", and classifying it as being in "live operation" aka soft launched.
They are nowhere near the same.
Makes no different. The premise that they make is: Since they release SC alpha 2.0, it can be considered proof from their site, that they have make a substantial effort in working towards accomplishing the kickstarter objectives. The kickstarter does not, in any way, guarenteed in making a working commercial game. With that, they can effectively deny any attempt for a refund.
If you disagree with them, the only move you can make is to take it, officially to court.
The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
Well done, Chris Roberts. Well done RSI. Well done CGI.
Well, let me be the first (in this forum) to congratulate CR and his team to have sucessfully accomplished the kickstarter project goals and able to keep all the money he was given.
To all SC backers (who still and will continue to support CR and SC): congratulations, the long wait has come to an end. The tunnel has been crossed. SC is a game you all have been waiting for. Let me say it again with big smile in my face: congratulations.
You forgot something:
Have fun!
We are always in a race what our intelligence can do for us and what our intelligence does to us.
Funny part about the TOS is they changed it yet keep the KS date on it. Which if am not mistaken is illegal! Like I stated before CR with his past can't be trusted. Before putting a penny in this people should of done their research!
This is a joke right? Ninty nine percent of companies put they dont have to refund in their tos. The way to get a refund is not act like an asshat when you request it.
Well, 99% of the company you stated, are either have an actual product that they are selling or have more than one.
So, if lets say, they got sued for not refunding a customer money, they will: 1. have to pay their bloodsucking lawyers to fight it in court. 2. feed the bloodsucking journalist; because we all know how juicy those stories are, true or not and how easy public opinion can be shaped. 3. may get 'investegated' by the goverment.
Either way, they will end up losing money/reputations/future sells. The most logical thing to do is just pay of the 1 irritated customer, even if they don't have to.
What about our case here, RSI and CGI? You noticed that: 1. They do not have a ready commercial product. 2. They are selling good will (items of virtual in nature, which will only work if they have a commercial product). 3. Their money is received is under the terms of 'kickstarter' project.
You have to realize that crowdfunding is not simply a preorder. They are not the same.
Their nature of business is different than most the 99% company you mentioned. You can say that RSI or CGI business is more similar to an R&D company, and that the crowdfunding is similar to a grant. Have you ever heard of a company/university refund a 'grant' they have received, especially if some portion of it has already been used? They will mostly get 'investigated' for missusing the grant.
If somehow SC is considered a 'failure', they will surely defend their money to the bitter end.
It's like some people criticizing CS fans have never visited beta
forums before. Every beta forum I've ever seen was filled with
rabid fans attacking anyone who dares to criticize their precious. This
is not new people. Please move along.
To be fair though most betas don't overrun the deadline by 2 years through without an at least a releasable working game...
She poked a hornets nest and look what it came out in the comments section (and even here). every hateful comment just proves her point even more.
what a beautiful community.
This article is full of nonsense and accusations based on assumptions, no objectively criticism.
Just the first few sentences made me laugh so hard.
Heh you know what? I have the privilege of not being in your club. I just observe and ... /shrug
If you want to prove that her points are not valid you should take the time and disprove her "assumptions". She provided quite a few links to back her claims.
dereksmart.org - says all, but thanks for the try.
You really showed them with your intelligent, fact filled rebuttals.
You really don't help SC fans cases with that comment
Well, to use DS as a source to base her argue, is really dubious, that just proves that she has no trustworthy and objectiveley sources and solid evidences to make her credible.
This article biased, as is the autor. There is not one link in this article, which proves her assumptions.
You guys dont do yourself a favour, if you use such suspicious and obviously doubtful article to discredit CR, CIG or the fans (im not a fan nor i am a backer, just to make it clear).
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
dereksmart.org - says all, but thanks for the try.
You really showed them with your intelligent, fact filled rebuttals.
You really don't help SC fans cases with that comment
Well, to use DS as a source to base her argue, is really dubious, that just proves that she has no trustworthy and objectiveley sources and solid evidences to make her credible.
This article biased, as is the autor. There is not one link in this article, which proves her assumptions.
You guys dont do yourself a favour, if you use such suspicious and obviously doubtful article to discredit CR, CIG or the fans (im not a fan nor i am a backer, just to make it clear).
Its 3:40am so I'm tired but mind pointing to where she uses Derek Smart as a source?
She links to posts in the SC community to show exactly what she is talking about. When she is talking about micro transactions she is stating a fact about CR having a bad track record and backs it up with a link.
I'm not sure you actually read the article or clicked the links she provided. I'm going to go pass out so feel free to actually read the article this time and then come back so we can have a real discussion.
dereksmart.org - says all, but thanks for the try.
You really showed them with your intelligent, fact filled rebuttals.
You really don't help SC fans cases with that comment
Well, to use DS as a source to base her argue, is really dubious, that just proves that she has no trustworthy and objectiveley sources and solid evidences to make her credible.
This article biased, as is the autor. There is not one link in this article, which proves her assumptions.
You guys dont do yourself a favour, if you use such suspicious and obviously doubtful article to discredit CR, CIG or the fans (im not a fan nor i am a backer, just to make it clear).
Its 3:40am so I'm tired but mind pointing to where she uses Derek Smart as a source?
She links to posts in the SC community to show exactly what she is talking about. When she is talking about micro transactions she is stating a fact about CR having a bad track record and backs it up with a link.
I'm not sure you actually read the article or clicked the links she provided. I'm going to go pass out so feel free to actually read the article this time and then come back so we can have a real discussion.
First part, yes she doesn't mention him that ill agree on.
And her proof isn't exactly iron clad, she links a post to person who talks about about SC being a cult, ?? in what way is that got to do with the game, another is a person asking why SC doesn't have a publisher, fair to ask, but there's a obvious answer and it's a topic that can't go anywhere, so it was closed. The other is of a reddit moderator, no connection to CIG, outing a person who has been absolutely destructive in the community, they had two full posts worth of offences.
Anyway her whole argument in the section is CIG bans or stops whoever criticise the game.
Why are these still open if every negative criticism is not allowed?
and as for the track record she linked one to the movie, which got a below average score, not a failure, but not great and the second to the freelancer games wiki, not sure why, but just typing it in google you can see it got 9.2 on IGN and 4/5 on metrics, which is in no way a failure, kind of raises the question why dod she leave that out? So what can we take from this? Movies wise, he's not great, but game wise he knows what he's doing, and luckily enough he's making a game right now not a movie.
At the end of this all it's clear she has an agenda, she does make an attempt at the end to say she doesn't, but when you lie in you own piece to make an argument, pick very specific cases (only 2 I might add) and ignore the rest and admit your just "poking the bear again", it's clear you're not trying to bring shit to light or show whats really going on.
The article has been updated - CIG is denying now ALL refunds cause they count "Alpha" 2.0 and up as a working game so the Kickstarter (And their own TOS) has been fullfilled.
At this case, we are free to evaluate the game as a finished game now, instead an Alpha, since the promise was a finished game. So, if what is released accomplish with the promise, according with them, let's make some reviews of the released Star Citizen, shall we?
I think the key question is: Will there be a wipe at actual release?
If there is no wipe, then for all intentions it is "released" and should be reviewed. If there is a wipe then no, it should still be treated as an unreleased game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Question 2 - Server wipes/Alpha progress carryover
“
Will there be server wipes during alpha/beta?
I’m very much looking forward to helping flush out bugs during
alpha/beta but wondering if any of our work will carry over into the PU if there will be a clean wipe before release?
”
–Alphastrike
Answer 2
“
That's a good question. We don't really have a specific stance on this at the moment.
My guess is probably we would reset everybody when the game goes
properly live. It's sort of hard to say because I think when we go into
like beta for the actual game that the backers will have, but not for
the full public yet, we probably wouldn't wipe that late stage stuff.
But certainly some of the early stuff like dogfighting module,
planet-side module all that.
You'll definitely be able to earn some money from winning some fights
and doing stuff, and that will be money that will allow you to buy some
weapons, but it will be for that dogfighting test area. It won't be
money that will carry through to the persistent universe.
So I guess the answer is there's going to be a combination of this, so
there will be wipes of some of the stuff but not all of the stuff. As
you get close to the final release, maybe some of the stuff you've done
will carry over."
If there is no wipe, then for all intentions it is "released" and should be reviewed. If there is a wipe then no, it should still be treated as an unreleased game.
I have to ask - wipe what? There is no persistence implemented yet, It's a playground to test assets/core mechanics with unlimited instant respawns. The next issue that came with pre-Release early access in general is that things from beta get carried over to live versions which is a mess, cause in beta versions you can and will achieve things by [unintended] exploits - that's the nature of a beta. I have no doubt that before having upset players CIG will carry things over from any stage to the next.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Have fun not being able to stop Star Citizen from becoming huge, hhahaha
Just one more step to a "possibly" perfect game experience (i'm glad i decided to wait on upgrading my pc until star citizen and occulus rift/htc vive are out)
Comments
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWTPZ6xWoAAwl4S.png
So basically it's done now
oh and
Have Fun
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
At this case, we are free to evaluate the game as a finished game now, instead an Alpha, since the promise was a finished game. So, if what is released accomplish with the promise, according with them, let's make some reviews of the released Star Citizen, shall we?
This is nothing like the Pathfinder debacle.
There is a big difference between classifying your game as "working", and classifying it as being in "live operation" aka soft launched.
They are nowhere near the same.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Well done, Chris Roberts. Well done RSI. Well done CGI.
Well, let me be the first (in this forum) to congratulate CR and his team to have sucessfully accomplished the kickstarter project goals and able to keep all the money he was given.
To all SC backers (who still and will continue to support CR and SC): congratulations, the long wait has come to an end. The tunnel has been crossed. SC is a game you all have been waiting for. Let me say it again with big smile in my face: congratulations.
If you disagree with them, the only move you can make is to take it, officially to court.
Have fun!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
So, if lets say, they got sued for not refunding a customer money, they will:
1. have to pay their bloodsucking lawyers to fight it in court.
2. feed the bloodsucking journalist; because we all know how juicy those stories are, true or not and how easy public opinion can be shaped.
3. may get 'investegated' by the goverment.
Either way, they will end up losing money/reputations/future sells. The most logical thing to do is just pay of the 1 irritated customer, even if they don't have to.
What about our case here, RSI and CGI? You noticed that:
1. They do not have a ready commercial product.
2. They are selling good will (items of virtual in nature, which will only work if they have a commercial product).
3. Their money is received is under the terms of 'kickstarter' project.
You have to realize that crowdfunding is not simply a preorder. They are not the same.
Their nature of business is different than most the 99% company you mentioned. You can say that RSI or CGI business is more similar to an R&D company, and that the crowdfunding is similar to a grant. Have you ever heard of a company/university refund a 'grant' they have received, especially if some portion of it has already been used? They will mostly get 'investigated' for missusing the grant.
If somehow SC is considered a 'failure', they will surely defend their money to the bitter end.
This article biased, as is the autor. There is not one link in this article, which proves her assumptions.
You guys dont do yourself a favour, if you use such suspicious and obviously doubtful article to discredit CR, CIG or the fans (im not a fan nor i am a backer, just to make it clear).
- Albert Einstein
She links to posts in the SC community to show exactly what she is talking about. When she is talking about micro transactions she is stating a fact about CR having a bad track record and backs it up with a link.
I'm not sure you actually read the article or clicked the links she provided. I'm going to go pass out so feel free to actually read the article this time and then come back so we can have a real discussion.
And her proof isn't exactly iron clad, she links a post to person who talks about about SC being a cult, ?? in what way is that got to do with the game, another is a person asking why SC doesn't have a publisher, fair to ask, but there's a obvious answer and it's a topic that can't go anywhere, so it was closed. The other is of a reddit moderator, no connection to CIG, outing a person who has been absolutely destructive in the community, they had two full posts worth of offences.
Anyway her whole argument in the section is CIG bans or stops whoever criticise the game.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/307286/do-you-really-believe-cig-will-stop-ship-sales-when-the-game-is-complete/p8
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/307171/way-too-much-z-fighting-on-the-ships
Why are these still open if every negative criticism is not allowed?
and as for the track record she linked one to the movie, which got a below average score, not a failure, but not great and the second to the freelancer games wiki, not sure why, but just typing it in google you can see it got 9.2 on IGN and 4/5 on metrics, which is in no way a failure, kind of raises the question why dod she leave that out? So what can we take from this? Movies wise, he's not great, but game wise he knows what he's doing, and luckily enough he's making a game right now not a movie.
At the end of this all it's clear she has an agenda, she does make an attempt at the end to say she doesn't, but when you lie in you own piece to make an argument, pick very specific cases (only 2 I might add) and ignore the rest and admit your just "poking the bear again", it's clear you're not trying to bring shit to light or show whats really going on.
Will there be a wipe at actual release?
If there is no wipe, then for all intentions it is "released" and should be reviewed. If there is a wipe then no, it should still be treated as an unreleased game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/10_for_the_Chairman_Episode_4
"Question 2 - Server wipes/Alpha progress carryover
–Alphastrike
Answer 2
My guess is probably we would reset everybody when the game goes properly live. It's sort of hard to say because I think when we go into like beta for the actual game that the backers will have, but not for the full public yet, we probably wouldn't wipe that late stage stuff. But certainly some of the early stuff like dogfighting module, planet-side module all that. You'll definitely be able to earn some money from winning some fights and doing stuff, and that will be money that will allow you to buy some weapons, but it will be for that dogfighting test area. It won't be money that will carry through to the persistent universe. So I guess the answer is there's going to be a combination of this, so there will be wipes of some of the stuff but not all of the stuff. As you get close to the final release, maybe some of the stuff you've done will carry over."
Have fun
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The next issue that came with pre-Release early access in general is that things from beta get carried over to live versions which is a mess, cause in beta versions you can and will achieve things by [unintended] exploits - that's the nature of a beta.
I have no doubt that before having upset players CIG will carry things over from any stage to the next.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Just one more step to a "possibly" perfect game experience (i'm glad i decided to wait on upgrading my pc until star citizen and occulus rift/htc vive are out)