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After 100m, here's the CIG Christmas gift - a ship sale, just U$ 2500/1250 each

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Comments

  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    Margrave said:
    It's only because they need more funding. They're struggling is all.



    Yes. I always had this feeling too. A lot of mismanagement and disregard with the backer money in practice, even if good faith could be in place (which is hard to believe due their standard of been dishonest), at the minimum, incompetence is there and arrogance enough to do not assume that and then, starting to acquire competence.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    So $1250 - $2500 for, unless i am totally misunderstanding things, ships in a game, that is currently unfinished, and the ships aren't yet in the bit they have done, so, your not even buying pixels, but, your buying pictures of pixels. Given that premise, can i buy them if i send them pictures of the money?
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,967
    I dont blame them, if people are going to buy them. I would do the same thing. Just shocking lol
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited December 2015
    wow, $2500 for a few pixels


  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    acidblood said:
    At those prices I can't wait to see the pics of CIG Christmas party!




    player who bought virtual ships


  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited December 2015
    Wow, this is literally making me sick.

    What is the profit margin on the ship costing 2500 USD?

    I do have cash and I am happy to spend it on expensive items, but only if there is a reasonable margin for the person selling the goods / services. I would never buy something that is so incredibly overpriced.

    Someone compared it to car parts which is a nonsense. Expensive cars / carparts cost what they do for a reason - materials used, skilled labour required for their production, etc.

    I am torn here. While I realize that if this disgusting supply that is promoted as a gift to the community, which is purely bizarre imo, is matched with a demand then it is ok from the economic point of view, it still makes me sick.

    It is a slap in the face of the fans yet they still smile and clap their hands at this "gift".
    Tell me how many games (complete, not in pre-techdemo-alpha-over-delayed) and how many hours of gameplay/content/entertainment those games would provide to you, that you could buy with $2500?

    After that, remember that we are talking not even about a game of  $2500... but about one single asset of such game... and both does not exist, neither the support for the ship, neither the ship... and won't exist in any time soon.

    And finally, let's remember that Roberts and co. call themselves saviors of the genre and of the PC and that publishers are "greedy".

    Some things can't be defended. People who jump on trying to defend this are just embarrassing themselves more and CIG too. They seem to like to burn the project with their own attitude, both CIG and some fans. A truly childish proud. They all would have more credibility, and would sound a smarter community, if they jumped in the throat of the company that did that, loving or not the project. That's the thing. They call everyone who criticize naturally this bs, as haters, or even maniacs. They shouldn't need haters, in the first place (which exist in their imagination and in their need to create the us vs. them scenario for motivation).

    They should be the first to jump in the throats of the company. But they applaud. Fascinating.

  • spankybusspankybus Member UncommonPosts: 1,367
    I am looking forward to playing this game. Alpha is fun, but obviously not complete.

    But 2500 USD is a car...a used one that might need work, but its a means of real transportation.

    I hope they sell them all. Someone else can fund this game. My cheap ass thanks them lol

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited December 2015
    Wow, this is literally making me sick.

    What is the profit margin on the ship costing 2500 USD?

    I do have cash and I am happy to spend it on expensive items, but only if there is a reasonable margin for the person selling the goods / services. I would never buy something that is so incredibly overpriced.

    Someone compared it to car parts which is a nonsense. Expensive cars / carparts cost what they do for a reason - materials used, skilled labour required for their production, etc.

    I am torn here. While I realize that if this disgusting supply that is promoted as a gift to the community, which is purely bizarre imo, is matched with a demand then it is ok from the economic point of view, it still makes me sick.

    It is a slap in the face of the fans yet they still smile and clap their hands at this "gift".

    Speaking only to the car parts thing, what's a "reasonable" margin. I remember I had a friend who worked at Best Buy once and I bought a $20 3mm audio extension cable from him for the $0.35 that was his cost :) Not that I know what the margins are on car parts, but I'm sure they're not as razor thin or reasonable as you're making them out to be. 

    As far as people smiling and clapping their hands, I really think that people have a hard time grasping what the adoption rate is of these "deals". So there are some 1 million people or so, and 100 million dollars. That means that we're looking at an average of $100 per person. However, we know that there are at least a couple people who have stated that they've spent $30k or more to buy all ships. Let's use what we know of the F2P model, though. We know from a study 2014 that 50% of revenue came from 0.15% of players. So if we were to place those number against SC, that would mean that $50 million would have come from around 1500 people. If 1500 people purchased the $30k (or whatever) package, that would place their contribution to the entire project at the $45 million mark, which actually lines up pretty well. Even if we were to assume that every other backer contributed equally to the effort, that would put the average user at $50. 

    So, while I'm sure this isn't the case, the realist is that I would peg the vast majority of the backers of this project in or around the $50 mark (or less), which is less than the price of a new game today. The math just doesn't work otherwise. We know there are people who have bought that massive package and there are quite a few who have admitted to it, meaning there are likely more who won't admit it. Then there will be a great deal of people over that $100 "average" investment which will drop that average price even more. I'm guessing that there are fewer than 100,000 people who have spent over $100. I'd say that there are probably fewer than 5000 people who have spend over $1000. 

    Am I going to cry for the privileged few who can afford to spend that sort of money on this? Not really. Am I jelly? Probably a little. However, take solace in knowing that this so-called exploitation is a farce. It's like saying that Porsche exploits people. Or Ferrari. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,331
    edited December 2015
    This just sickenss me, and the worst part with this is, that people even in this thread  defending that ponzi company.

    I'm gonna try the game when and if It getting released and I will buy the boxed version for 49.99, not a dime more.
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    Phry said:
    So $1250 - $2500 for, unless i am totally misunderstanding things, ships in a game, that is currently unfinished, and the ships aren't yet in the bit they have done, so, your not even buying pixels, but, your buying pictures of pixels. Given that premise, can i buy them if i send them pictures of the money?
    Fair business.
  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    Maurgrim said:
    This just sickenss me, and the worst part with this is, that people even in this thread  defending that ponzi company.

    I'm gonna try the game when and if It getting released and I will buy the boxed version for 49.99, not a dime more.
      Obviously not a Ponzi scheme but whatever. Hell I'm a backer at $40 and I think the ship sales are stupid as fuck but I'm not gonna go full retard and spout nonsense like "Ponzi scheme", "vaporware", "never will be released" and my favorite "it's shit cause Mr. Smart told me so".  It will release when it's ready.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    This has got to be the most ridiculous monetization method I've ever seen. And yet.............

    Lets just say, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I'd have laughed at the idea of this. All I can say is I am out of touch with this kind of fantasy. For the life of me, I cannot fathom how this success has reached the heights that it has. Regardless if this is a game or scam, where this project is at this point in time makes me shake my head in disbelief. As was pointed out in an above post. No matter how good it is........is it really worth this? Obviously to some it is. Which is why I consider myself out of touch here.


    Worth it to whom?  If you spent only 40 bucks to buy the game when its done it will be more than worth it.  The game doesn't cost 100 million to play.  People are getting all crazy about a collective group of other peoples money, its hysterical actually.  Like its their money, or like they actually care about someone that spent 2k on a ship.

    For example when you hear about the guy that won 50 million in the lottery is your first thought that you're happy for him?  My guess is not, it a sort of twinge of jealousy, then maybe a little anger if you play allot and have never won anything yourself.

    I'm really just watching a kind of inner poison seeping out from the negative posters here masked behind a quest for justice for their fellow man.   Its all BS.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Am I to late for the " That is only a weeks work for people with real jobs "..?

    The gift should have been a random ship to all who donated. Not " here is a gift now give us a lot of money for it ".. To be a gift the item has to be given not shown and then ask money for... Some backwards people at CIG and some of their fans.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    CrazKanuk said:
    Wow, this is literally making me sick.

    What is the profit margin on the ship costing 2500 USD?

    I do have cash and I am happy to spend it on expensive items, but only if there is a reasonable margin for the person selling the goods / services. I would never buy something that is so incredibly overpriced.

    Someone compared it to car parts which is a nonsense. Expensive cars / carparts cost what they do for a reason - materials used, skilled labour required for their production, etc.

    I am torn here. While I realize that if this disgusting supply that is promoted as a gift to the community, which is purely bizarre imo, is matched with a demand then it is ok from the economic point of view, it still makes me sick.

    It is a slap in the face of the fans yet they still smile and clap their hands at this "gift".

    Speaking only to the car parts thing, what's a "reasonable" margin. I remember I had a friend who worked at Best Buy once and I bought a $20 3mm audio extension cable from him for the $0.35 that was his cost :) Not that I know what the margins are on car parts, but I'm sure they're not as razor thin or reasonable as you're making them out to be. 

    As far as people smiling and clapping their hands, I really think that people have a hard time grasping what the adoption rate is of these "deals". So there are some 1 million people or so, and 100 million dollars. That means that we're looking at an average of $100 per person. However, we know that there are at least a couple people who have stated that they've spent $30k or more to buy all ships. Let's use what we know of the F2P model, though. We know from a study 2014 that 50% of revenue came from 0.15% of players. So if we were to place those number against SC, that would mean that $50 million would have come from around 1500 people. If 1500 people purchased the $30k (or whatever) package, that would place their contribution to the entire project at the $45 million mark, which actually lines up pretty well. Even if we were to assume that every other backer contributed equally to the effort, that would put the average user at $50. 

    So, while I'm sure this isn't the case, the realist is that I would peg the vast majority of the backers of this project in or around the $50 mark (or less), which is less than the price of a new game today. The math just doesn't work otherwise. We know there are people who have bought that massive package and there are quite a few who have admitted to it, meaning there are likely more who won't admit it. Then there will be a great deal of people over that $100 "average" investment which will drop that average price even more. I'm guessing that there are fewer than 100,000 people who have spent over $100. I'd say that there are probably fewer than 5000 people who have spend over $1000. 

    Am I going to cry for the privileged few who can afford to spend that sort of money on this? Not really. Am I jelly? Probably a little. However, take solace in knowing that this so-called exploitation is a farce. It's like saying that Porsche exploits people. Or Ferrari. 

    Just to help out your numbers the 1 million people don't all own ships. There is no current count of who owns a ship and who doesn't just those who are signed up an account, the number of ships sold (not sure if packages count as 1) and the total raised.

    People can spend their money how they want, many of us agree on that point. Where the issue, at least for me, comes from is practices like this "sale" where they reward loyal fans by allowing them to buy more pixels for thousands of dollars. How about they reward the fans with giveaways of those ships? Fans have already dropped 100million on this project and its close to Christmas so how about they show some positive PR and give them away?
  • EpicJohnsonEpicJohnson Member UncommonPosts: 83
    You know it was the fans who have been asking for these ships to go on sale.
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited December 2015
    You know it was the fans who have been asking for these ships to go on sale.
    Just like drug addicted asked for more cocaine. The good drug dealer does not sell enough to kill the consumer. Or the bar owner. He won't sell too much drinks, knowing that the drunk could ruin the image of the bar, depending of how he reacts when drunk. And the general public, always will consider the guilty the drug dealer and the bar man, because they know, everyone knows, that they could be more reasonable and control the whole thing better, and that means not making things, just because some asked. It smells "taking advantage". Bad business. Bad image. In the long term, it can be fatal, specially for those targeting niche markets.

    Look to David Braben. Survived 30 years in the game industry as an indie, doing great projects along his entire career. He probably knows 1 or 2 things about this right? Knowing that, you have to ask yourself. Why he did not open the floodgates for ship sales, when he could and was asked for, risking even not passing/achieving the funding level, which was not easy to achieve his milestone in his campaign? 

    30-years of experience, without pause, in the industry and with niche markets... smart guy right? know the drill... so why he did not take advantage of the situation? 

    I know why.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Kefo said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Wow, this is literally making me sick.

    What is the profit margin on the ship costing 2500 USD?

    I do have cash and I am happy to spend it on expensive items, but only if there is a reasonable margin for the person selling the goods / services. I would never buy something that is so incredibly overpriced.

    Someone compared it to car parts which is a nonsense. Expensive cars / carparts cost what they do for a reason - materials used, skilled labour required for their production, etc.

    I am torn here. While I realize that if this disgusting supply that is promoted as a gift to the community, which is purely bizarre imo, is matched with a demand then it is ok from the economic point of view, it still makes me sick.

    It is a slap in the face of the fans yet they still smile and clap their hands at this "gift".

    Speaking only to the car parts thing, what's a "reasonable" margin. I remember I had a friend who worked at Best Buy once and I bought a $20 3mm audio extension cable from him for the $0.35 that was his cost :) Not that I know what the margins are on car parts, but I'm sure they're not as razor thin or reasonable as you're making them out to be. 

    As far as people smiling and clapping their hands, I really think that people have a hard time grasping what the adoption rate is of these "deals". So there are some 1 million people or so, and 100 million dollars. That means that we're looking at an average of $100 per person. However, we know that there are at least a couple people who have stated that they've spent $30k or more to buy all ships. Let's use what we know of the F2P model, though. We know from a study 2014 that 50% of revenue came from 0.15% of players. So if we were to place those number against SC, that would mean that $50 million would have come from around 1500 people. If 1500 people purchased the $30k (or whatever) package, that would place their contribution to the entire project at the $45 million mark, which actually lines up pretty well. Even if we were to assume that every other backer contributed equally to the effort, that would put the average user at $50. 

    So, while I'm sure this isn't the case, the realist is that I would peg the vast majority of the backers of this project in or around the $50 mark (or less), which is less than the price of a new game today. The math just doesn't work otherwise. We know there are people who have bought that massive package and there are quite a few who have admitted to it, meaning there are likely more who won't admit it. Then there will be a great deal of people over that $100 "average" investment which will drop that average price even more. I'm guessing that there are fewer than 100,000 people who have spent over $100. I'd say that there are probably fewer than 5000 people who have spend over $1000. 

    Am I going to cry for the privileged few who can afford to spend that sort of money on this? Not really. Am I jelly? Probably a little. However, take solace in knowing that this so-called exploitation is a farce. It's like saying that Porsche exploits people. Or Ferrari. 

    Just to help out your numbers the 1 million people don't all own ships. There is no current count of who owns a ship and who doesn't just those who are signed up an account, the number of ships sold (not sure if packages count as 1) and the total raised.

    People can spend their money how they want, many of us agree on that point. Where the issue, at least for me, comes from is practices like this "sale" where they reward loyal fans by allowing them to buy more pixels for thousands of dollars. How about they reward the fans with giveaways of those ships? Fans have already dropped 100million on this project and its close to Christmas so how about they show some positive PR and give them away?

    I can't disagree there. As it stands right now I unknowingly bought a merchant ship, so I don't have an attack ship, so it'd be nice to have something like that at a reasonable price. Then I do also want a merchant ship, so just give me a great discount. That's a sale. Yes, you're right, the "sale" is certainly not something that is applicable for 99% of the players. I would have preferred to see a % off "sale" if that's what they were going to do a holiday sale. These big ticket items only further reinforce the fact that there is a low percentage of peopel paying for the majority of the game. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    CrazKanuk said:
    Kefo said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Wow, this is literally making me sick.

    What is the profit margin on the ship costing 2500 USD?

    I do have cash and I am happy to spend it on expensive items, but only if there is a reasonable margin for the person selling the goods / services. I would never buy something that is so incredibly overpriced.

    Someone compared it to car parts which is a nonsense. Expensive cars / carparts cost what they do for a reason - materials used, skilled labour required for their production, etc.

    I am torn here. While I realize that if this disgusting supply that is promoted as a gift to the community, which is purely bizarre imo, is matched with a demand then it is ok from the economic point of view, it still makes me sick.

    It is a slap in the face of the fans yet they still smile and clap their hands at this "gift".

    Speaking only to the car parts thing, what's a "reasonable" margin. I remember I had a friend who worked at Best Buy once and I bought a $20 3mm audio extension cable from him for the $0.35 that was his cost :) Not that I know what the margins are on car parts, but I'm sure they're not as razor thin or reasonable as you're making them out to be. 

    As far as people smiling and clapping their hands, I really think that people have a hard time grasping what the adoption rate is of these "deals". So there are some 1 million people or so, and 100 million dollars. That means that we're looking at an average of $100 per person. However, we know that there are at least a couple people who have stated that they've spent $30k or more to buy all ships. Let's use what we know of the F2P model, though. We know from a study 2014 that 50% of revenue came from 0.15% of players. So if we were to place those number against SC, that would mean that $50 million would have come from around 1500 people. If 1500 people purchased the $30k (or whatever) package, that would place their contribution to the entire project at the $45 million mark, which actually lines up pretty well. Even if we were to assume that every other backer contributed equally to the effort, that would put the average user at $50. 

    So, while I'm sure this isn't the case, the realist is that I would peg the vast majority of the backers of this project in or around the $50 mark (or less), which is less than the price of a new game today. The math just doesn't work otherwise. We know there are people who have bought that massive package and there are quite a few who have admitted to it, meaning there are likely more who won't admit it. Then there will be a great deal of people over that $100 "average" investment which will drop that average price even more. I'm guessing that there are fewer than 100,000 people who have spent over $100. I'd say that there are probably fewer than 5000 people who have spend over $1000. 

    Am I going to cry for the privileged few who can afford to spend that sort of money on this? Not really. Am I jelly? Probably a little. However, take solace in knowing that this so-called exploitation is a farce. It's like saying that Porsche exploits people. Or Ferrari. 

    Just to help out your numbers the 1 million people don't all own ships. There is no current count of who owns a ship and who doesn't just those who are signed up an account, the number of ships sold (not sure if packages count as 1) and the total raised.

    People can spend their money how they want, many of us agree on that point. Where the issue, at least for me, comes from is practices like this "sale" where they reward loyal fans by allowing them to buy more pixels for thousands of dollars. How about they reward the fans with giveaways of those ships? Fans have already dropped 100million on this project and its close to Christmas so how about they show some positive PR and give them away?

    I can't disagree there. As it stands right now I unknowingly bought a merchant ship, so I don't have an attack ship, so it'd be nice to have something like that at a reasonable price. Then I do also want a merchant ship, so just give me a great discount. That's a sale. Yes, you're right, the "sale" is certainly not something that is applicable for 99% of the players. I would have preferred to see a % off "sale" if that's what they were going to do a holiday sale. These big ticket items only further reinforce the fact that there is a low percentage of peopel paying for the majority of the game. 
    No sale should be made as a Christmas gift for the backesr after they provided 6 million dollars. Not even discounts. He could make random give aways, whatever, but no sales.

    Specially after he said this:

    "Six million was what it would take us to build the game we were imagining with all the bells and whistles we wanted included."

    And regardless the lack of tact and lack of vision of two-way street road, focus on consumer satisfaction of CIG in this case, it's a constant, because the prices are outrageous. An offense to the intelligence of gamers. Not envious of rich people that can buy. Because this is just pathetic.
    Any single pre-release in-game item shouldn't cost more than 50/100 dollars (that would be already a little outrageous). In some countries they could even end on jail just for their ticket price. Some countries are more advanced than others in certain things. They don't let consumers and passion, advertisers to abuse of consumers so easily.
  • EpicJohnsonEpicJohnson Member UncommonPosts: 83
    Most of these large ship sales are not mainly being purchased by whales.
    Many will be acquired by organizations/clans as group buys.

  • EpicJohnsonEpicJohnson Member UncommonPosts: 83
    No where on the RSI site does it mention the cap/ship sale being a Christmas gift.
  • joeslowmoejoeslowmoe Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Chris must have one hell of a holiday vacation planned for the family!
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    No where on the RSI site does it mention the cap/ship sale being a Christmas gift.
    What part of the guy calling himself Santa haven't you understand.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,253
    edited December 2015
    One regret, wish I had come up with this plan.  :p

    My heart just isn't dark enough.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Xeno.phonXeno.phon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    Wizardry said:



    Except those car parts fall under much more stringent guidelines and law.You are also making a definitive purchase,not some  promissory note of we "might deliver".Also they had to make those car parts or somebody did and had to pay to have them made out of their own pocket,you did not have to pay 3 years in advance for the part.
    You go to buy anything with cold hard cash,you expect to be walking out instantly with that product and a working product at that.
    Yes I agree, digital products should be held to the same laws and regulations that physical products are in terms of receiving a functional product. But none of that has anything to do with the point of my post, some people have that money and to them it is worth it, who is anyone to tell them differently?

    As the original generation of gamers grow up they get jobs, some good jobs, and the industry evolves to allow them to purchase those fancy items. I think SC has shone light on a transitional phase in gaming, the haves and have nots. The ones that can afford to participate at the top level and those that hate on them for doing so.

    If people actually think that RSI could get away with charging for a product and not delivering at least a functional product with the assets users purchased in it then they are woefully ignorant of most developed nations legal systems. Just because it is not breaking the law now does not mean a suit can not be filed about this case and the law can be decided by the verdict.

    People need to calm the fuck down about SC, ofc its not going to be exactly what was promised, shit my wife wasnt exactly what was promised and I am still around so wtf? It doesnt matter if it is verbatim what was promised, it matters if it is a good game on gold status. 5 years is not an abnormal dev cycle for an experienced, established AAA studio, so why are people flaming an un established, not experienced studio for taking less than 5 years?

    If it succeeds it will show developers that they can make successful AAA titles without publishers, which is exactly what the industry needs right now. All the legality of entitlement to products and whatnot is coming, it is a new economic practice ofc laws will take time and precedence to set up.

    Instead people rage, and it all seems so irrational and unfounded at this point. Sure if its 6y later and it goes gold and it sucks ass then for sure rage on, but until then wtf basis to people have for such distrust and hatred toward something that could help all gamers out at the end of the day if it succeeds.

    To me it just seems to hipster, gotta hate on something right? may as well be something people have hope for so it is in line with the troll code.
  • EpicJohnsonEpicJohnson Member UncommonPosts: 83
    jcrg99 said:
    No where on the RSI site does it mention the cap/ship sale being a Christmas gift.
    What part of the guy calling himself Santa haven't you understand.
    That guy is not CR he is just a cog in the wheel.
     You can infer what you like, but Me I understand a SALE is not a gift.
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