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Anet has great artist, programmers, and map designers, but poor game design leadership and planning.

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,317
Anet has great artist, programmers, and map designers, but poor game design and planning.

For example, this bad game design for their new Spvp League system.

how about the original 400 HP for Elite Spec, with each HP behind a boss fight that requires players to be able to get there (gated map mastery travel) or even be willing to come (especially as players move on to different maps and game features).

Then you have WvW which was broken even more because somebody thought it would be a great idea to add new maps to borderlands, when the population was already spread thin as is....now there is talk about them replacing it with a GvG system... do anybody in charge of development ever think before they do stuff?

and now with leagues in place, we have to wait for balance patch,,,, really?

Philosophy of MMO Game Design

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Comments

  • GoromhirGoromhir Member UncommonPosts: 463
    100% agreed

    They work on the grafic design, maps etc etc more than on other important things

    but the forgot

    to fix bugs everywhere, improve the lousy GUI , improve Targeting, WvW  and many  many other things

    You know, its easier to add new textures than fixing or improving game mechanics

  • muffins89muffins89 Member UncommonPosts: 1,585
    edited January 2016

    gw2 is an mmo for the "graphics over gameplay crowd."


    and few years later the graphics are starting to show their age.

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    DMKano said:
    Ah the forum armchair game designers, every mmo looks so easy to fix from your perspective. 


    Foolish staement...

      but let me guess ....

      You have never rode a bike , and said hey this bike would be better if..

      Went to a movie and said hey this movie would have been better if..

      I would like this car better if...

      This is how things get better and improved ... Usually from consumer feedback....

      but you just keep massaging yourself... lmfao ... so tiresome
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852
    DMKano said:
    Ah the forum armchair game designers, every mmo looks so easy to fix from your perspective. 


    While I can agree with what you are saying in that it's easier said than done. What I don't agree with is the tone of your post that is telling people to sit down and shut up becasue they don't know what they are talking about. I don't have to know how to fix a game to recognize when it's not doing what it is supposed to. (What they said it would)  It still comes down to a question of responsibility. We are the ones buying it so we get to tell them it's not working right. They are the ones making it so they need to fix it. It's their job. They wanted to sell this game, now they need to make it work. 


  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    DMKano said:
    Ah the forum armchair game designers, every mmo looks so easy to fix from your perspective. 


    I love how poor leadership got them all other great people.  Must have been luck.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,572
    They definitely have bad designers but amazing artists.
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,503
    DMKano said:
    Ah the forum armchair game designers, every mmo looks so easy to fix from your perspective. 


    Yeah, because if people never complained ArenaNet would just fix any and all issues out of the goodness of their hearts.

    Yeah, just like in the real world.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,572
    edited January 2016
    They had a real chance to dethrone WOW.  They had a B2P model on a sequel to a well received game.  They had strong artistic talent and programmers.  What they didn't have was top notch designers that knew how to create an endgame model that was compelling to players. 

    They couldn't blame sub prices on the drastic population decrease.  It simply came down to not offering compelling content to the people that bought the game.  Which meant they didn't have much good word of mouth to regrow a population with.
  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608
    Anet has great artist, programmers, and map designers, but poor game design and planning.

    For example, this bad game design for their new Spvp League system.

    how about the original 400 HP for Elite Spec, with each HP behind a boss fight that requires players to be able to get there (gated map mastery travel) or even be willing to come (especially as players move on to different maps and game features).

    Then you have WvW which was broken even more because somebody thought it would be a great idea to add new maps to borderlands, when the population was already spread thin as is....now there is talk about them replacing it with a GvG system... do anybody in charge of development ever think before they do stuff?

    and now with leagues in place, we have to wait for balance patch,,,, really?
    Yup. Hopefully the PvP leagues and WvW overhaul will be amazing:) 

    It's a fortunate thing that a lot of GW2 is really well-designed. Particularly with regards to the Elite Specs themselves, the new zones, the raid, the guild hall, the meta bosses. 

    Other things that need further iderations in design; guild missions, scribing, mastery system, and certain elements of the GUI. 


    IMO, GW2 has some of the best game design I have ever seen. Compared to other MMOs that is. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited January 2016
    They had a real chance to dethrone WOW.  They had a B2P model on a sequel to a well received game.  They had strong artistic talent and programmers.  What they didn't have was top notch designers that knew how to create an endgame model that was compelling to players. 

    They couldn't blame sub prices on the drastic population decrease.  It simply came down to not offering compelling content to the people that bought the game.  Which meant they didn't have much good word of mouth to regrow a population with.
    Isn't GW2 one of Ncsoft's top performers? I'm not a big fan myself of either GW title, yet your post strikes me as saying the game hasn't performed well, which seems unlikely considering it's popularity as well as earnings.

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  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Member RarePosts: 2,174
    Surprised that you wasted time with this garbage.

    I disagree with you about the art, I didn't like it at all. Its like kiddie WoW style even more than the first one.

    I never made it to the WvW because I had played the first game which was awesome and was very let down by everything about this one... I should have known this when I watched a beta video and the player was spamming the same button over and over again and won the boss fight.

    They sold out. Completely to the masses. I feel so betrayed.

    They should have stuck with Guild Wars.. that was a wayyyy better game and still is even while its dead.

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  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,206
    They had a real chance to dethrone WOW.  
    Not without better grouping mechanics they didn't. Call it old fashioned and hate it all people want, but the trinity works better for groups than the spamfest we got instead.

    I love almost every aspect of GW2 except how the combat mechanics interact. It's not fun to me. I think they've finally admitted this with the introduction of actually threat management and healing.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,230
    muffins89 said:

    gw2 is an mmo for the "graphics over gameplay crowd."


    and few years later the graphics are starting to show their age.

    Show their age? It's still one of, if not the, best looking MMOs on the market because it has the best art style out there. 
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    I think the character models kind of suck, but the environment art is top-notch.  Anet had some amazing artists, and it shows even in the loading screen paintings.

    The character models were in one of those weird no-man's-land places.  They weren't super cartoony, but weren't very realistic either... they just seem kind of plasticky and fake... sort of like EQ2.
  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144
    edited May 2016
    They had a real chance to dethrone WOW.  They had a B2P model on a sequel to a well received game.  They had strong artistic talent and programmers.  What they didn't have was top notch designers that knew how to create an endgame model that was compelling to players. 

    They couldn't blame sub prices on the drastic population decrease.  It simply came down to not offering compelling content to the people that bought the game.  Which meant they didn't have much good word of mouth to regrow a population with.

    No MMORPG that is designed around the microtransaction model has a chance to dethrone WOW.   Choosing that payment model is literally telling the consumer that the developer doesn't care about their product and is out to make a quick buck. 
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,230
    They had a real chance to dethrone WOW.  They had a B2P model on a sequel to a well received game.  They had strong artistic talent and programmers.  What they didn't have was top notch designers that knew how to create an endgame model that was compelling to players. 

    They couldn't blame sub prices on the drastic population decrease.  It simply came down to not offering compelling content to the people that bought the game.  Which meant they didn't have much good word of mouth to regrow a population with.

    No MMORPG that is designed around the microtransaction model has a chance to dethrone WOW.   Choosing that payment model is literally telling the consumer that the developer doesn't care about their product and is out to make a quick buck. 
    I don't see your argument here. WoW has microtransactions on top of its box price, expansion prices, and subscription fee. It's milking the customer in every possible direction. 
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    edited May 2016
    I know this forum doesn't get much activity, but another necro thread?  lol.

    Anyway, i think they have good game designers, but their "vision" could be better.  GW2 can be summed up as if it's always in a mid-life crisis.  It's never stable and always trying new ideas on the public, and it seems like they don't test out their new ideas first.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    GW2s PvP could be better, yes. It is mainly a PvE game nowadays but the rest of the MMOs with very few exceptions are as bad or worse with PvP. That is no excuse and they really need to rethink the WvW PvP, it is less fun now then it was a month after release and that is bad.

    As for dethroning Wow, Blizzard seems to making that job for themselves. Lineage is very close to become the largest subscription based MMO... If Legion fails badly it might even drop below GW2s active players but it (Legion) will have to be pretty bad for that. Not impossible though, the last 2 expansions have been bad.

    The difference though is that GW2 might actually grow if it releases a good expansion, Wow will never become close to it's golden days again no matter what they do.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    PVP season 3 is kind of messed up right now with horribly overpowered condition spam.
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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited May 2016
    DMKano said:
    Ah the forum armchair game designers, every mmo looks so easy to fix from your perspective.
    Pretty much this.

    People still do not seem to understand the huge leap between an idea and it's actual implementation...

    Ideas are like ass*****, everyone has got one.
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    edited May 2016
    I don't know if that is a correct conclusion, but I always felt that such a beautiful world deserved a much better game.
    "Just"
    - throw away the entire class system including combat, insert a better deeper more tactical more role-heavy coop-based system.
    - remove all gear for point vender system, replace with drops/crafting materials from mobs, quests, world, adventuring
    - named world mobs and other poi, down those beautifully designed open world dungeons scattered all around.
    - less story heavy.. This means out with kill 10 quests, less quest hubs, less railroading, no more cramped themepark quests, in with meaningful questing.
    - out with the cursed level adjustment or whatever it is called
    - expand the dynamic events concepts, it was a good start but there is much potential to make it better and truely dynamic

    There, fixed - best game in the current market.
    Armchair developer out.
    Post edited by kjempff on
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,117
    GW2 has always been very accessible. It is a collection of bite-sized experiences, mostly open to everyone. Majority of design decisions were made to support that vision.

    I think it did well at that. The game is a viable alternative to trinity based MMOs, with a healthy population years after launch. Had they released a trinity combat based MMO, as people often suggest, there is a good chance the game would lose all of its player base within a few months.

    I just tried WoW recently. It feels WoW is trying to adopt the bite-sized approach. What used to be a deep raiding experience is now a hub based casual game, much similar to GW2. This is a testament to the fact that developers across the board believe the bite sized accessible game retains the most players. At least in the realm of AAA games. Looking at GW2 from a broader perspective, it has done a lot of things right.

    That is not to say GW2 combat has no space for improvement. There is tonnes. It is safe to say the player interactions within a PvE fight are lacking. I am cautiously optimistic that the developers understand this.
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    edited May 2016
    observer said:
    I know this forum doesn't get much activity, but another necro thread?  lol.
    Yeah... there seems to be a campaign to necro as many threads as possible on these forums over the last month.  There's like a 50/50 chance any thread you see atop the forum is 1-2 years old.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,998
    observer said:
    I know this forum doesn't get much activity, but another necro thread?  lol.

    Anyway, i think they have good game designers, but their "vision" could be better.  GW2 can be summed up as if it's always in a mid-life crisis.  It's never stable and always trying new ideas on the public, and it seems like they don't test out their new ideas first.
    I think it was the new ideas that made the game so popular.  What ever they're doing now, lack of players is not a problem, could be better but having more players is always something that could be better.  If they stopped trying new things then people would complain about them never trying anything new and being stuck in a rut.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    edited May 2016
    They had a real chance to dethrone WOW. 
    No game can dethrone WoW.

    Wow was a freak anomaly which got many players addicted to the purple grind. How many have let relationships, marriages, jobs go to waste because they were addicted to raiding?
    I sacked a number at my office for calling in sick because they wanted to play that game when there were more urgent matters at work.
    And I know a close friend of mine who's wife left him with the kids because he played that game from the moment he arrived home till the moment he went to bed.
    Talking about adult ppl here.

    Plus I know some that are being paid minimum wage now because they didnt finish school because of the purple grind.

    I have not met 1 WoW player that hasn't started about the purple craze within 20s after he/she started talking about this game. It was just total addiction.
    No matter how bad they got fked up by the devs with nerfs and stuff, they always went back, because the Purple Craze was calling them...

    No matter how good a game is, when it isn't addicting like WoW was (and Blizzard did that perfect) it will never get that many players.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

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