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Wildstar took 9 years to make. Why is everyone so doom and gloom for EQN?

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  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    edited December 2015
    Aelious said:
    So we'll be collecting classes and leaving a dent in norrath rather than playing casino with tab target trinity games.


    Just logging into Landmark to play with the handful of weapons with, what, three skills has me excited for EQN. Even an expanded version of Landmark with more/harder mobs would be a start. You can actually form "classes" with the equipment already in Landmark but the mobs aren't hard enough to warrant more than one player... unless you're taking acid spits to the face.

    An actual 3D world that can be harvested? Yes please. That's how materials should be collected IMO. Earning or finding other play styles (classes) and have that be part of an expanded meta? I can't wait. I hope it ends up that way, we'll see.

    Yeah it will be better than Landmark. I bought landmark just in time for the combat. I didn't think it that bad, pvp was kinda interesting, the pve needs way more work though. They had a character wipe and i can't find myself back to grinding for those swords again. It was fun while it lasted. The classes were the swords technically btw...

    Had a full set of different armors i rounded up. i went OP armor class with a 2hander damage. Didnt care for the shield and sword combo. Didn't pvp at that point cause no one wanted to start a game.
  • vato76vato76 Member UncommonPosts: 12
    I thought this game was dead. good to hear they are still working on it.
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Aelious said:
    So we'll be collecting classes and leaving a dent in norrath rather than playing casino with tab target trinity games.


    Just logging into Landmark to play with the handful of weapons with, what, three skills has me excited for EQN. Even an expanded version of Landmark with more/harder mobs would be a start. You can actually form "classes" with the equipment already in Landmark but the mobs aren't hard enough to warrant more than one player... unless you're taking acid spits to the face.

    An actual 3D world that can be harvested? Yes please. That's how materials should be collected IMO. Earning or finding other play styles (classes) and have that be part of an expanded meta? I can't wait. I hope it ends up that way, we'll see.

    Yeah it will be better than Landmark. I bought landmark just in time for the combat. I didn't think it that bad, pvp was kinda interesting, the pve needs way more work though. They had a character wipe and i can't find myself back to grinding for those swords again. It was fun while it lasted. The classes were the swords technically btw...

    Had a full set of different armors i rounded up. i went OP armor class with a 2hander damage. Didnt care for the shield and sword combo. Didn't pvp at that point cause no one wanted to start a game.


    Yeah, hopefully the cryptic "Big Stuff Coming" will add to the combat system since it mentioned changes to adventuring but who knows. The weapons did decide what abilities you have but there is further "class building" from there with the other equipment slots that I think were expanded at the same time as the wipe. Some are specific to certain damage or ability types and some are more general such as armor steal. For instance you could focus on being a "tank" by equipping the low damage, high armor chest/helm/gloves and use accessory slots for further armor steal or buff to received heals if someone was using the Lucent wand as a "healer", for which there would be other gear for such things as CD reduction and buffs to radiance abilities.

    I'm sure the weapons and gear were put in for EQN testing purposes. but even as it stands, more mobs and ones that are "elite" would be fun in the meantime.

  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Yeah it was fun for a while. I remember staying and playing 26 hours in a row (taking showers of course) the first night pve was introduced. Everytime i wanted to log off someone was doing a raid. Yeah hopefully they give me a reason to play it again. Would like weapons and armor though.
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    You'll be grinding faction to participate in quests that leads you to participating in rallying calls. All items that you gain don't have stats that improve your character but give you options on the battlefield so its all player skill. Im pretty sure they have stuff like damage in swords but each weapon will have 4 unique attacks coupled with the 4 class abilities at any time. 

    Crafting. You can craft different parts of the weapon to give it unique perks as well as parts in shields and armor.
    Everything will have "stats."

    They might be called attributes or something else, but they will be the same thing.

    Landmark gear has stats and they've shown examples of gear at SOE Live for EQN.

    Might not be WoW/EQ2 style with 20 numbers in a list, but there will have to be some sort of numerical values.

    They've said that there will still be vertical progression, but it will be on top of a more horizontal system which should decrease power creep.

    Regardless, I most likely won't be grinding faction to do quests to do bigger quests because at this point I require a certain amount of challenge. Beyond their hyped "smart" AI, I'm not going to find it in a PVE game with static challenges.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Landmark gear is limited to 2 stats. armor class and hp. then a modifier that uses skills. each gear has 3 stats. If vertical progression means more skills then its still up to the player to make use of those skills. The power curve isn't as bad. The landmark gnoll type mob threw me off guard the first time playing. We skirmished and after i went to heal running away it didn't give chase and regened itself. In fact, i couldn't kite it with my bow because it would run out of range then regen itself. Anyone whose played landmark knows you have to melee the thing.
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Landmark gear is limited to 2 stats. armor class and hp. then a modifier that uses skills. each gear has 3 stats. If vertical progression means more skills then its still up to the player to make use of those skills. The power curve isn't as bad. The landmark gnoll type mob threw me off guard the first time playing. We skirmished and after i went to heal running away it didn't give chase and regened itself. In fact, i couldn't kite it with my bow because it would run out of range then regen itself. Anyone whose played landmark knows you have to melee the thing.
    I haven't logged into Landmark for quite some time, but did it change from this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sldVuZRg6OQ 

    http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJV-rIV5RnQ

    Obviously depends on the actual item, but some have more than 2-3 stats and then each ability connected to gear/weapons have numbers attached as well. Which if you start adding them together, you get something resembling a stat system in any other mmo.

    No idea how EQN itself will function, but highly doubt it will be something completely different as the little they've shown at SOE Live matches fairly close to LM's system.

    If you are talking about the Slaug, sounds like it was resetting and regening as you ran out of combat, but I could be mistaken. LM's AI is very poor. I'm assuming the small group of people that still play LM would know better than I.
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 1,054
    So you finally get a glimpse of a developement process for a game. And pretty much, for the sake of the game they are making they are not showing you anything anymore. Why are people convincing others that this will never see light of day basing this on their own opinion? Yesterday EQNext vaporware was uttered by a news site. Is it popular gossip to ruin a game like you guys did here? Seriously tired and sick of this.
    wildstar's graphics aren't very impressive.  so yes i can tell its a 9 year old game.  lets hope eqn doesnt have this same issue then!

    IMPORTANT:  Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING.  Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally.  If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead.  I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING.  Thank you.
    image

  • MarknMarkn Member UncommonPosts: 195

    Because there has not been an update in months that I know of.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Allein said:
    Landmark gear is limited to 2 stats. armor class and hp. then a modifier that uses skills. each gear has 3 stats. If vertical progression means more skills then its still up to the player to make use of those skills. The power curve isn't as bad. The landmark gnoll type mob threw me off guard the first time playing. We skirmished and after i went to heal running away it didn't give chase and regened itself. In fact, i couldn't kite it with my bow because it would run out of range then regen itself. Anyone whose played landmark knows you have to melee the thing.
    I haven't logged into Landmark for quite some time, but did it change from this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sldVuZRg6OQ 

    http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJV-rIV5RnQ

    Obviously depends on the actual item, but some have more than 2-3 stats and then each ability connected to gear/weapons have numbers attached as well. Which if you start adding them together, you get something resembling a stat system in any other mmo.

    No idea how EQN itself will function, but highly doubt it will be something completely different as the little they've shown at SOE Live matches fairly close to LM's system.

    If you are talking about the Slaug, sounds like it was resetting and regening as you ran out of combat, but I could be mistaken. LM's AI is very poor. I'm assuming the small group of people that still play LM would know better than I.

    The itemization has changed since then but not sure if the wiki has been adequately updated. I may check and fill in just for fun and if so will post it over in the Landmark forums. I got a bug the other day and crafted/updated all of the weapons and made some armor/accessories. I love the combat but the lack of mob variety just doesn't last past the that and getting tiered achievements.

    One funny note about slaug behavior is that they don't like light. If you have any light radius and approach them they will run away just out of the edge of the light and turn around to stare at you. I also think there is an aggro mechanic based on tier.

  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Aelious said:
    Allein said:
    Landmark gear is limited to 2 stats. armor class and hp. then a modifier that uses skills. each gear has 3 stats. If vertical progression means more skills then its still up to the player to make use of those skills. The power curve isn't as bad. The landmark gnoll type mob threw me off guard the first time playing. We skirmished and after i went to heal running away it didn't give chase and regened itself. In fact, i couldn't kite it with my bow because it would run out of range then regen itself. Anyone whose played landmark knows you have to melee the thing.
    I haven't logged into Landmark for quite some time, but did it change from this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sldVuZRg6OQ 

    http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJV-rIV5RnQ

    Obviously depends on the actual item, but some have more than 2-3 stats and then each ability connected to gear/weapons have numbers attached as well. Which if you start adding them together, you get something resembling a stat system in any other mmo.

    No idea how EQN itself will function, but highly doubt it will be something completely different as the little they've shown at SOE Live matches fairly close to LM's system.

    If you are talking about the Slaug, sounds like it was resetting and regening as you ran out of combat, but I could be mistaken. LM's AI is very poor. I'm assuming the small group of people that still play LM would know better than I.

    The itemization has changed since then but not sure if the wiki has been adequately updated. I may check and fill in just for fun and if so will post it over in the Landmark forums. I got a bug the other day and crafted/updated all of the weapons and made some armor/accessories. I love the combat but the lack of mob variety just doesn't last past the that and getting tiered achievements.

    One funny note about slaug behavior is that they don't like light. If you have any light radius and approach them they will run away just out of the edge of the light and turn around to stare at you. I also think there is an aggro mechanic based on tier.

    Get with me in game. Id like to get some armor/weapons that you aren't using. Ill send you a pm in this website.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,453
    The limited information we got on the combat,looked to me like a scaling down of effort,streamlining choice because there would not be enough choice anyhow.
    I really enjoyed a lot of years in the Everquest franchise,i met some nice people and really enjoyed SOE on a whole.
    However this is not the same SOE anymore and i have lost all confidence in this team.
    Now in saying that,their rendition of the card game that Hearthstone now rules the roost was really quite good,far better than Hearthstone,so they did have it in them to make a decent game.However their pay model was just far too greedy and SOE's true colors showed when came time to fix things and support.

    IMO they have always liked to RUSH games out unpolished,imo the worst in the industry,so just imagine now after all that has gone down and fewer employees.Likely why i expect a shallow  game,not as much to screw up this time.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001
    Why do I think EQ Next will never launch?

    Oh I don't know. Maybe because for a game that's supposed to be releasing in the next year or so, the latest update on their official website is over 60 days old.

    Their website's headline reads the game is still in development, after which they beg you to buy Landmark so you can then create free assets for EQ Next.

    If that doesn't smell, I don't know what does. And take this from someone who "invested" 99 bucks to a Trailblazer back when Landmark was going to be "create your own MMO" - since reduced to "create assets for our MMO".

  • n3xxn3xx Member UncommonPosts: 36
    Because often when a company gets bought up it never goes well for the franchise or game you loved... imo

    also ... wildstar was rly bad.
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,351
    Aelious said:

    One funny note about slaug behavior is that they don't like light. If you have any light radius and approach them they will run away just out of the edge of the light and turn around to stare at you. I also think there is an aggro mechanic based on tier.

    Some of them don't like when you have a weapon drawn too, they will always attack undefended targets first (they are cowards).
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    edited December 2015
    azarhal said:
    SlothnChunk said:
    Daybreak fired key people involve with Everquest next including the creative minds behind the project.  That's the opposite of investing; that's cutting back.

    The lead designers/directors (Steve Klug, Darrin McPherson, Rosie Rappaport and Micheal Mann) and the lead producer who is in charge of everything (Terry Michaels) were not fired.
    The people fired were openly working on Everquest Next as their sole  or primary project. I think you just named Daybreak employees not people previously mentioned as working on Everquest Next as their primary project (at least since Daybreak took over).

    And, no, not everyone was fired.  The point was Daybreak has done the opposite of invest in Everquest Next (fired key people focused on Everquest Next, put Landmark into maintenance mode, gone completely dark on EQN).

    I would also argue an investment firm actually investing in Everquest Next development would have been announced.  I think Daybreak quickly figured out they didn't have the $50,$75, or even $100 million necessary to make a proper EQN MMO.
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,351
    azarhal said:
    SlothnChunk said:
    Daybreak fired key people involve with Everquest next including the creative minds behind the project.  That's the opposite of investing; that's cutting back.

    The lead designers/directors (Steve Klug, Darrin McPherson, Rosie Rappaport and Micheal Mann) and the lead producer who is in charge of everything (Terry Michaels) were not fired.
    The people fired were openly working on Everquest Next as their sole  or primary project. I think you just named Daybreak employees not people previously mentioned as working on Everquest Next as their primary project (at least since Daybreak took over).

    And, no, not everyone was fired.  The point was Daybreak has done the opposite of invest in Everquest Next (fired key people focused on Everquest Next, put Landmark into maintenance mode, gone completely dark on EQN).

    I would also argue an investment firm actually investing in Everquest Next development would have been announced.  I think Daybreak quickly figured out they didn't have the $50,$75, or even $100 million necessary to make a proper EQN MMO.
    You clearly didn't follow any of EQnext development since 2013. EQNext is the brainchild of Darrin McPherson, Terry Michaels and Jeff Butler (who was fired? He didn't change his twitter description though).

    The people I listed have been working on EQNext since they announced it in 2013 and have been presented as leads at SOE live 2013 and again at SOE Live 2014 and even after SOE became Daybreak back last March. Terry Michaels has always been the guy in charge and the person who teased the game back in 2013 in the "black box reveal" video. To that list we can also add Emily (Domino/Pentapod), but she was moved to EQ2 to help them release the new expansion over the Summer. Seems like she is back now though, she posted an update in the Landmark forums last night.

    They warned Landmark was going to the back-burner to focus on EQNext in February 2015 and that they would be more silent, I don't get why people are surprised by that. 

    Also, they only reduced communicating to 0 since the end of October which match with the move to the new office and Jens Andersen being named Executive Creative Director over all Daybreak Games. They were still chatty on Twitter and livestreams about what they were doing on EQnext even if they not showing new parts of it.
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    edited December 2015
    azarhal said:
    azarhal said:
    SlothnChunk said:
    Daybreak fired key people involve with Everquest next including the creative minds behind the project.  That's the opposite of investing; that's cutting back.

    The lead designers/directors (Steve Klug, Darrin McPherson, Rosie Rappaport and Micheal Mann) and the lead producer who is in charge of everything (Terry Michaels) were not fired.
    The people fired were openly working on Everquest Next as their sole  or primary project. I think you just named Daybreak employees not people previously mentioned as working on Everquest Next as their primary project (at least since Daybreak took over).

    And, no, not everyone was fired.  The point was Daybreak has done the opposite of invest in Everquest Next (fired key people focused on Everquest Next, put Landmark into maintenance mode, gone completely dark on EQN).

    I would also argue an investment firm actually investing in Everquest Next development would have been announced.  I think Daybreak quickly figured out they didn't have the $50,$75, or even $100 million necessary to make a proper EQN MMO.
    You clearly didn't follow any of EQnext development since 2013. EQNext is the brainchild of Darrin McPherson, Terry Michaels and Jeff Butler (who was fired? He didn't change his twitter description though).

    The people I listed have been working on EQNext since they announced it in 2013 and have been presented as leads at SOE live 2013 and again at SOE Live 2014 and even after SOE became Daybreak back last March. Terry Michaels has always been the guy in charge and the person who teased the game back in 2013 in the "black box reveal" video. To that list we can also add Emily (Domino/Pentapod), but she was moved to EQ2 to help them release the new expansion over the Summer. Seems like she is back now though, she posted an update in the Landmark forums last night.

    They warned Landmark was going to the back-burner to focus on EQNext in February 2015 and that they would be more silent, I don't get why people are surprised by that. 

    Also, they only reduced communicating to 0 since the end of October which match with the move to the new office and Jens Andersen being named Executive Creative Director over all Daybreak Games. They were still chatty on Twitter and livestreams about what they were doing on EQnext even if they not showing new parts of it.
    When Landmark/EQNext were announced simultaneously in 2013, SOE stated Landmark would be used to test things for EQNext.  They also stated, therefore, certain development aspects would be openly discussed due to crossover.

    Daybreak has since fired several key EQNext developers, put Landmark into maintenance mode, and has gone completely dark on EQN.  There hasn't been a Twitch video in two months and it's been SIX months since we've heard from Landmark/EQN head Terry Michaels in a producer letter.

    Jens Andersen being promoted from created director of DCUO to all of Daybreak (including EQN) in October 2015 should be worrisome to EQN fansHard to argue bringing in another 'executive' as creative lead, previously working on other titles, is good news.  Sounds more like what you would do if you were shifting directions on a project.

    On top of that, Daybreak hasn't announced any development news for EQN in months.  And they certainly never announced how they are investing in EQN.  I certainly would argue an investment firm would have announced they greenlite the $50 or $75 million needed to complete the AAA EQN.

    Instead, Daybreak divested from EQN by firing several key people and putting Landmark on the backburner. So the objective signs don't look good for EQN.
  • Raxxo82Raxxo82 Member UncommonPosts: 150
    Been playing around in Norrath since eq1(ca 15y), and Eq/eq2 has always been my go to games. Safe to say I am a huge Everquest fan. As many others I was very excited about EQN and Landmark, when they were announced. 
    So this is not just a bashing, cause I really wanted it to be true.. its not. I highly doubt we ll ever see a finished version of EQN. If Daybreak had any intentions of finish the game we would have know! Sorry all you norrathians! Take a screenshot of Fippy Darkpaw, put it in your wallet and get on with your lives. ;)

    image
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,280

    I would also argue an investment firm actually investing in Everquest Next development would have been announced.  I think Daybreak quickly figured out they didn't have the $50,$75, or even $100 million necessary to make a proper EQN MMO.
    I do not believe that money was an issue.  CN is a multi-billion dollar company that bought SOE, now Daybreak.  If there is a plan to continue with EQ:N, money seems unlikely to be the issue.  Unrealistic / ill-defined project goals or lack of development talent (both existing and previously released) or untenable financial prospects each seem much more likely causes for the apparent stoppage than money.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    edited December 2015
    Mendel said:

    I would also argue an investment firm actually investing in Everquest Next development would have been announced.  I think Daybreak quickly figured out they didn't have the $50,$75, or even $100 million necessary to make a proper EQN MMO.
    I do not believe that money was an issue.  CN is a multi-billion dollar company that bought SOE, now Daybreak.  If there is a plan to continue with EQ:N, money seems unlikely to be the issue.  Unrealistic / ill-defined project goals or lack of development talent (both existing and previously released) or untenable financial prospects each seem much more likely causes for the apparent stoppage than money.
    You're joking, right?  Money isn't an issue to an investment firm? Since when?

    I bet you someone at the investment firm about had a heart attack when told it would take another $50-$75 million to complete EQN properly as a triple-A quality MMO.  And that's when EQN, as previously announced by SOE, ceased to exist.

    The investment firm simply will not invest tens of millions in a huge risk and write off the loses like Sony was willing to (even Sony lost that ability over a good decade of SOE never making money).

    I would continue to argue if the investment firm 'invested' what was actually necessary to complete EQN as announced it would have made news.  That's not something an investment firm would have kept quiet.  Instead, there has been a lot of news of how Daybreak had divested in a lot of MMOs, including EQN.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    CN is a multi-billion dollar company. They can seemingly lose for the first 3 years than wait until the game turns profits. CN also still owns the Rock Band franchise and haven't sold it despite it not making a legit game since 2012.
     
    EQ2 which cost 12 million in developement which released in 2004 is still making tons of money for SOE/Daybreak. Know how i know? There's articles out there escp when they turned f2p in 2009 they saw a triple jump in profits.

    They could do 2 things with EQN. They could pump more money into the development and make it the fastest selling SOE/Daybreak game on steam and they can release an early alpha with founders packs asking for $149.99.

    I know EQN has a budget. Im not saying profits from other Daybreak games could possibly rub off on EQN. In one interview when asked about H1Z1, Dave Georgeson was quoted referring to H1Z1 as "that little game... <is cool>" and it sold about 2.2 million early access passes. EQN is possibly the biggest thing Daybreak is developing. Who know's what we will see when the veil is lifted. Will it have awe inspiring combat? Probably not, will it have groundbreaking gameplay? Im banking on the middle of both. With tons to do. Why can it be anything but? D. Georgeson stated that mmos are the hardest game to make and the longest time to produce. Themepark mmos require the most polish and coding to get the quests and content right. But this game is slated to be a sandbox. Meaning the content and delivery are different thanks to the help from storybricks and in house AI. It is also known that the developement is working on combat and world building and not quests and progression of such. As Domnino (Emily Taylor) stated it takes 2 weeks to 2 months to produce a simple quest in EQ2 depeding on how complex it is. Gone are the days of old fashion. This is a horse race with other mmos now current and upcoming. Will the mechanics give it the edge?

    Daybreak has options now. It can hit the mobile market and expand its current titles to Xbox. This could be a turnaround for the "whipping boy" its been as a game company in the eyes of the press and players. Blizzard has been stealing their ideas for years and now Blizzard cannot copy EQN. Hence the black box.


  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    edited December 2015
     When Vangaurd Saga of Heroes came out rushed it competed against WoW: The Burning Crusade and sold 200k copies in the first 2 weeks (Yes im aware TBC sold 2.4 million). Competition aside, and the market growing doesn't mean doom and gloom for EQN. Out of the 1.265 million views the reveal of EQN recieved on youtube do you think about 70k loyal followers are enough to make this game successful? Damn right! It could turn a profit in about 3 years time. If i was Columbus Nova i would pump 50 million into this game and see it grow. It's only right for the franchise that's been waiting 14 years for it...
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    But this game is slated to be a sandbox. 

    Blizzard has been stealing their ideas for years and now Blizzard cannot copy EQN. Hence the black box.
    What ideas has Blizzard stolen from SOE? 

    Despite using the term "sandbox" they've painted EQN to be very themeparkish.

    Assuming they get the next-gen smart AI to work along with procedurally generated quests and what not, they still have to make all the mobs, create all the AI trees (likes/dislikes), Rally Calls, Rohsong with all the achievements and whatever things will be tracked. All of which is dev time and company money similar to any full themepark game.

    Being that EQN is supposed to have a dev driven story pushing players forward, I wouldn't call it a sandbox. Then again, that term is way overused and doesn't really mean anything.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    edited December 2015
    Mercernaries/followers
    Level agnostic dungeons
    cross server dungeons
    mentoring system
    WoD and Legion are stated to be coming out with all of those. Guess which game has that currently? *cough EQ2

    It's a one and done though instead of tailoring every npc to say a tailored text and code. They (npcs) can pop in like the matrixs agent smith and ask for rat tails when you come accross a wrecked village destroyed by orcs... No, Domino assured it won't take as long. DG also stated they are 60% feature done with EQNext with the rest in RnD.
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