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Wildstar took 9 years to make. Why is everyone so doom and gloom for EQN?

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  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,775
    To start a game today then release it 9 years from now, there would need to be a true visionary at the lead. If not you get a game that's outdated before release.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Wizardry said:
    filmoret said:

    Despite some people's opinions this studio does own some really nice games.  H1Z1 is nothing to laugh at and Planetside 2 along with DCUO are really solid games.  Not to mention that DCUO is multiplatform.  EQN has too much promise and I think they are just holding it until they are ready to continue development.

    I am sorry but i know game design VERY well and yes those games are something to laugh at.NONE of those games have the effort past one year of rushed work in them.H1Z1 even worse,looked to be about 3-4 months of rushed work and that was because Smedley was trying to get it out before the sale to DB.

    Someone mentioned an unknown entity behind DB,not to me i did a ton of research and w/o hestitation,the guy imo is a complete nut case.
    First of all i doubt the guy has ever played a video game in his life and likely knows nothing abot uthem,his business people likely do all that work for him.He as going around and likely still is buying up every Russian War artifact he could find and was even sued by i think was the Sweden government for corruption behind the sales and purchases using government money.

    Anyone with half a wit ,knows you don't take over the Russian oil market from the government unless there was some serious corruption there.I wouldn't doubt there is a whole different agenda behind the purchase of SOE that has nothing to do with gaming,maybe more like money laundering.

    Yet their games are very popular and they are making tons of money.  So despite your feeling on how long it took them to develop said games they are successful.  I see the need to hate on this company somehow brings you comfort but numbers don't lie and they are doing quite a good job.  So point and laugh at the millionaire all you want because you aren't one of them.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    bcbully said:
    To start a game today then release it 9 years from now, there would need to be a true visionary at the lead. If not you get a game that's outdated before release.
    JButler who was let go, was stated to come out with some of this stuff in 2001. It's very eerie. Yes action combat is being embraced. Sandbox's which JSmedley fired the original team's staff for is coming into age. Lot's of people's whose ideas lived longer than they did. It will be the improbable launch if i ever see it. After that, we don't know.

    Everquest has a long history. If this is a hit, the franchise will be in the gamer hall of fame. 
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    bcbully said:
    To start a game today then release it 9 years from now, there would need to be a true visionary at the lead. If not you get a game that's outdated before release.
    JButler who was let go, was stated to come out with some of this stuff in 2001. It's very eerie. Yes action combat is being embraced. Sandbox's which JSmedley fired the original team's staff for is coming into age. Lot's of people's whose ideas lived longer than they did. It will be the improbable launch if i ever see it. After that, we don't know.

    Everquest has a long history. If this is a hit, the franchise will be in the gamer hall of fame. 
    Source about Butler?

    Nothing they've revealed so far seems original at all. 

    Actually building the tech and making a game on the other hand would be new.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,452
    These are not THEIR games,they are SOE games ,they simply purchased the business and immediately laid off employees.Also you do NOT suddenly lay off and dismantle an entire business when you are about to unleash 2 upcoming expansions and have 5 games to feed content.It says one thing,that they are NOT making money and need to cut costs way down to salvage any kind of profit.

    The funny part was they pretty much completely dismantled the community aspect ,then wrote a statement claiming they were all about community  ..umm yeah ok.BTW i am on the TL servers "Stormhold" ghost town,nobody is playing,less than 200 players logged in,definitely not making money.

    If anyone wants to try and convince me and others that H1Z1 is a good indication that EQN is going to be great...good luck with that.BTW how is the PS2 content coming along?How is that kids game "Free Realms" doing that Semdley was once bragging had 10million players,oh yeah it doesn't exist anymore removed after 4 years.

    Here is how much you can trust this business and lies.Smedley was bragging Free Realms had 10 million but shut the game down because  here comes the nice terminology >>>"Not enough resources" ROFLMAO.

    I am pretty sure NOBODY on the this planet would shut down a game with 10 million users unless it was all lies and losing money.So what does this say when EQN comes out,they are going to shut down more games to make sure they have the resources?Oh yes and guess what ..EVERY single game that has a que ue does not have enough resources,should they just shut down?


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Allein said:
    bcbully said:
    To start a game today then release it 9 years from now, there would need to be a true visionary at the lead. If not you get a game that's outdated before release.
    JButler who was let go, was stated to come out with some of this stuff in 2001. It's very eerie. Yes action combat is being embraced. Sandbox's which JSmedley fired the original team's staff for is coming into age. Lot's of people's whose ideas lived longer than they did. It will be the improbable launch if i ever see it. After that, we don't know.

    Everquest has a long history. If this is a hit, the franchise will be in the gamer hall of fame. 
    Source about Butler?

    Nothing they've revealed so far seems original at all. 

    Actually building the tech and making a game on the other hand would be new.
    Darrin Mcpherson tweeted it.

    The 4 pillars of success...err i mean the 4 holy grails: Destructible worlds, emergent AI, Rallying calls and the last one i don't know not to mention the rohsong and the mobile app to check the game. Ah, permanent change. 40 classes, itemization, multi-classing, heroic movement. Now you have witnessed these and yet you say they aren't original. I challenge that, name me an mmo that has any of the above.
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,351
    Allein said:
    bcbully said:
    To start a game today then release it 9 years from now, there would need to be a true visionary at the lead. If not you get a game that's outdated before release.
    JButler who was let go, was stated to come out with some of this stuff in 2001. It's very eerie. Yes action combat is being embraced. Sandbox's which JSmedley fired the original team's staff for is coming into age. Lot's of people's whose ideas lived longer than they did. It will be the improbable launch if i ever see it. After that, we don't know.

    Everquest has a long history. If this is a hit, the franchise will be in the gamer hall of fame. 
    Source about Butler?

    Nothing they've revealed so far seems original at all. 

    Actually building the tech and making a game on the other hand would be new.
    Darrin Mcpherson tweeted it.

    The 4 pillars of success...err i mean the 4 holy grails: Destructible worlds, emergent AI, Rallying calls and the last one i don't know not to mention the rohsong and the mobile app to check the game. Ah, permanent change. 40 classes, itemization, multi-classing, heroic movement. Now you have witnessed these and yet you say they aren't original. I challenge that, name me an mmo that has any of the above.
    Your missing pillar is "A Life of consequences".
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    Darrin Mcpherson tweeted it.

    The 4 pillars of success...err i mean the 4 holy grails: Destructible worlds, emergent AI, Rallying calls and the last one i don't know not to mention the rohsong and the mobile app to check the game. Ah, permanent change. 40 classes, itemization, multi-classing, heroic movement. Now you have witnessed these and yet you say they aren't original. I challenge that, name me an mmo that has any of the above.
    Challenge Accepted  =) 

    Emergent AI: No proof they've actually built it. Wasn't their idea or tech (Storybricks). Others have tried to pull it off on a smaller scale and it didn't work, hence why companies haven't spent time/money trying to make it work for a mmo.

    0-1

    Voxels: Minecraft? I've heard it's popular.

    Voxel Farm is a very pretty system for sure, but the core concept isn't original for EQN and again, wasn't their idea/tech. Although the Tiered world is a good idea and I hope they can actually get it to work with AI and not just be huge caverns. Will agree that the scale is new, but Jeff nor anyone at SOE is responsible for the concept.

    Crowfall is also using Voxel Farm, so they might actually release a game with VF before EQN.

    0-2

    Life of Consequence: Every "sandbox" game ever? From what they've alluded to, seems like the same old faction/rep system, just with a new coat of paint. Which I'm fine with, just don't make it too WoW like.

    The Rohsong sounds like WAR's Tome of Knowledge mixed with pretty much the standard mmo system of tracking all achievements along with factions to cause different reactions from NPCs (assuming they get the AI to work). 

    0-3

    Permanent Change: Yet to be seen of course, but they've also alluded to it not really be "permanent." Story will drive the game so dev created things could change any "permanent" aspect caused by players. Again, other games have tried this on some level, sandboxes in particular, with varying success. Many upcoming games are hyping this as well.

    Players can't literally do anything they want and will be going along with whatever the devs decide should happen.

    WoW had the AQ, EQ had The Sleeper, EQN might have something a bit more complicated, but who knows. Then there was Shadowbane, SWG, UO, EVE.

    0-4

    Multi-Classing: Guess it depends on your definition (classless, multi-class) - MOBAs, Rift, UO, GW1, DF, Albion Online, ArcheAge, DnD, SWktor, Fury, ESO, EVE, SWG...

    If you mean exactly 100% like what they've said about EQN, then no, but many games have similar systems so it isn't original.

    0-5
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    edited December 2015
    Allein said:
    bcbully said:
    To start a game today then release it 9 years from now, there would need to be a true visionary at the lead. If not you get a game that's outdated before release.
    JButler who was let go, was stated to come out with some of this stuff in 2001. It's very eerie. Yes action combat is being embraced. Sandbox's which JSmedley fired the original team's staff for is coming into age. Lot's of people's whose ideas lived longer than they did. It will be the improbable launch if i ever see it. After that, we don't know.

    Everquest has a long history. If this is a hit, the franchise will be in the gamer hall of fame. 
    Source about Butler?

    Nothing they've revealed so far seems original at all. 

    Actually building the tech and making a game on the other hand would be new.
    Darrin Mcpherson tweeted it.

    The 4 pillars of success...err i mean the 4 holy grails: Destructible worlds, emergent AI, Rallying calls and the last one i don't know not to mention the rohsong and the mobile app to check the game. Ah, permanent change. 40 classes, itemization, multi-classing, heroic movement. Now you have witnessed these and yet you say they aren't original. I challenge that, name me an mmo that has any of the above.
    So what? A list of features that haven't been proven to work in synergy together...or even at all? The very 1st example of exclusion in your challenge is EQN itself.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    You're seeing the pieces of the car. You are examining it and saying. "well, this is the piston, it looks different, but its a piston". If you see how the car moves under the hood you see how different is and different features will become their own. 

    You saw minor steps in the direction of everything you refuted. If you know, for example, Rohsong. It literally the first portable app you can play on your mobile device that you can log into the game from to check if this area is covered or this one is. You can see the progress of the story online or through mobile app. Every server will be different. Rift has probably the most combos of multiclassing, but its 3 x 3 x 3 (x amount of class trees) but have you seen the possible 40 x 39 x 38 x 37...EQNext can do? Permanent change meaning you can wipe an entire npc out of a region thus changing the landscape. No mobs will spawn twice. Once a mob is dead it is deleted from the world...cont.


  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    cont. They gave us God-Like features at the start. I don't think the normal mmo fan was ready for it. It went over our heads and lots still can't put it all together. But that's ok, developers aim big and they have many years to work with their concepts because they design stuff for the long haul. cont.
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    edited December 2015
    cont. They gave us God-Like features at the start. I don't think the normal mmo fan was ready for it. It went over our heads and lots still can't put it all together. But that's ok, developers aim big and they have many years to work with their concepts because they design stuff for the long haul. cont.
    You asked me to name any mmo that has any of the above, I gave you several examples of each.

    Even though EQN doesn't exist and has yet to prove it will actually have the pillars itself.

    None of the features are over my head. As I pointed out, we've seen the all of it before in some form. Maybe after 20+ years of online gaming I need a bit more to get blown away by, but words aren't cutting it.

    If they actually build it all and released a cohesive polished product, then I'll be impressed.

    No one has put such a diverse feature set into one game that I know of. Doesn't mean this will be the one to actually do it.

    If it is going over your head and your imagination is taking over, that's fine, but rainbows and sunshine don't make games.

    SOE/DBG has never been known to plan for the long term. The rush releases, change games without fully testing nor receiving feedback, and generally have a poor record despite having great games at one point or another.

    Maybe EQN will be different, but as many have said, it is just concept currently until we have more.

    Chronicles of Elyria is another big paper promise game that I hope makes it to release. Majority of it seems way too good to be true, but I'm hopeful all the same. No different for EQN.

    But hope/faith/rainbows don't magically make game release, nor make them enjoyable for any length of time. If so, I'd be playing any number of the games that I have or haven't played over the years, they would all be exactly as hyped and hoped for.

    Also, could you link the Rohsong app? If you "literally" can use it right now...

    You literally seem to believe everything they've said with little proof that it can actually happen.

    Which is great, we all need something to believe in, but don't expect everyone to do the same with no evidence.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    edited December 2015
    cont. What we got was a peek into what ideas the average AAA mmo game designers make. It's not ahead of its time. Due to the nature of how long it takes to develop an mmo id say its right on time. 2018 we'll have the IPhone 10 (lol). Why not have something of this nature to come out around then? I think they knew the tech was going to be hard but they are complaining about the hard work not the technology. The producers will make this happen, or allow for something similar. Money ideas are not lets cut into this market espc not while WoW is around. They have to do something original or they wont swim but sink...
  • ketzerei84ketzerei84 Member UncommonPosts: 81
    1) Smedley was never a visionary, so EQN was a flop from the start.

    2) Now that SoE is 'Daybreak Gaming', it's even more of a flop: The parent company, which owns them in entirety, Columbus Nova is an "investment banking group" - really, they're corporate raiders. Their modus operandi is 'buy failing company, drive it into the ground squeezing every cent possible out of it, break it up and sell off anything of value, shut the doors'

    3) Wildstar was 9 years in the making, and started strong, then started failing hard, then the visionaries int he company left. Now it's coasting on momentum until it collapses.

    4) If you want to waste your money on a game which is going to be released as a quick cash-in on the EQ-franchise name by a company which has no intention of supporting their playerbase go right ahead. Don't say you weren't warned.

    Playing: Secret World: Legends

    Waiting for: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
    cont. What we got was a peek into what ideas the average AAA mmo game designers make. It's not ahead of its time. Due to the nature of how long it takes to develop an mmo id say its right on time. 2018 we'll have the IPhone 10 (lol). Why not have something of this nature to come out around then? I think they knew the tech was going to be hard but they are complaining about the hard work not the technology. The producers will make this happen, or allow for something similar. Money ideas are not lets cut into this market espc not while WoW is around. They have to do something original or they wont swim but sink...
    If EQN is the mmo equivalent to the iPhone 10 in the smartphone market, might as well give up now. 
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
     "Maybe after 20+ years of online gaming I need a bit more to get blown away by, but words aren't cutting it."

    If all it takes for you is a cool video 8) than i don't know what you were expecting. The concepts here predate mmos. Its a step closer to true simulation of rpgs. Its a truer simulation because armor isn't a number anymore. It fluctuates needing rest so it simulates actual moving it around in your body while your fighting covering spots that are there or not ( being completely depleted). The point of storybricks was to give the player a reason to play the game rather than to simulate character growth. We won't be ubbaring up our characters but taking part in an unfolding story. There are no raids so to speak.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    cont. We're cutting out the stuff that sucked in rpgs and single player and giving into a world that hosts us as a participator, not the hero.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    So we'll be collecting classes and leaving a dent in norrath rather than playing casino with tab target trinity games.
  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,088
     "Maybe after 20+ years of online gaming I need a bit more to get blown away by, but words aren't cutting it."

    If all it takes for you is a cool video 8) than i don't know what you were expecting. The concepts here predate mmos. Its a step closer to true simulation of rpgs. Its a truer simulation because armor isn't a number anymore. It fluctuates needing rest so it simulates actual moving it around in your body while your fighting covering spots that are there or not ( being completely depleted). The point of storybricks was to give the player a reason to play the game rather than to simulate character growth. We won't be ubbaring up our characters but taking part in an unfolding story. There are no raids so to speak.
    I wouldn't take a video as evidence of anything either. They've shown several that looked very staged.

    So the concepts are original or now they predate mmos?

    It isn't a true sim as it isn't a actual product. Don't know what a "true sim" even would be.

    Not sure how much you looked into the game, but there will still be vertical progression. Be it Tiers/Levels, getting better gear, or unlocking achievements that enhance our characters.

    Numbers are still a live and well.

    "Raids" will exist in some form as well, or at least Georgeson seemed to think so. They aren't supposed to be static WoW instances however. Large scale battles in the open world. Although the last team Q&A update said instanced would exist in some form. I assume more along the lines of EQ open world dungeons that are procedurally generated if again they can get ti to work.

    Without character growth, people won't play these games. Not sure what one could do in a mmorpg that didn't grow a character or player in some form.

    Again, I'm glad you are hyped up, but you are talking about concepts, not reality.

    Once the game is released, we can discuss if they actually did what was presented. Until then it is just hopes and dreams.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    You'll be grinding faction to participate in quests that leads you to participating in rallying calls. All items that you gain don't have stats that improve your character but give you options on the battlefield so its all player skill. Im pretty sure they have stuff like damage in swords but each weapon will have 4 unique attacks coupled with the 4 class abilities at any time. 

    Crafting. You can craft different parts of the weapon to give it unique perks as well as parts in shields and armor.
  • SyndromofaDownSyndromofaDown Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Stat-less gear is not even considered rpg. There's no attributes or they are hard to come by...There's tiers of power but that only simulates the role of being learned in your class to unlock abilities. You can be a warrior with weapon and shield and that's pretty much all you'll need to bring on a raid :pleased: Class roles will still be needed like a ranger with snares but even then the AI is promised to be smart enough to not even put the trinity in effect. If that tells you anything.
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Wizardry said:
    BTW i am on the TL servers "Stormhold" ghost town,nobody is playing,less than 200 players logged in,definitely not making money.

    Well they are making your money if you are logged into the SH server ;)

    252 as of 1:50PM PST, not including those set to anonymous. The middle of the day on a Monday isn't the best time to check pops. Is it high? Not really but it's a time-locked server past the honeymoon phase. Plus, even in the two minutes I was logged in there was calls for groups. It's still providing entertainment and making some money.

    Regarding EQN as a whole it will come when it comes. There are still too many people working on it for it not no longer be in production. Even if the plug was pulled there are enough entities from competition builds to form a pseudo Landmark/EQN monster to get the last burst of attention. We'll see something in the end whether it's what was intended or not. Bickering over what we think will happen, mostly based on our emotional feelings, is only to entertain ourselves while we wait. Only a small handful of people really know and it isn't us.

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    You'll be grinding faction to participate in quests that leads you to participating in rallying calls. All items that you gain don't have stats that improve your character but give you options on the battlefield so its all player skill. Im pretty sure they have stuff like damage in swords but each weapon will have 4 unique attacks coupled with the 4 class abilities at any time. 

    Crafting. You can craft different parts of the weapon to give it unique perks as well as parts in shields and armor.
    You seem to have cobbled together every announcement they have made and are stating them as if they were completed work rather than the hopeful plans they were making at the time those announcements were made.

    This is essentially the problem with your line of argument, this is all smoke and mirrors.  The stuff we have actually seen demonstrated is much more humble and in line with the sort of games we have been seeing over the last few years.

    So we are left with a team that seems to be shrinking month by month, a total absence of any real progress reports, an indication that DBG have started work on another game and a reversal of the 'no more Xpacs' decision for EQ and EQ2 (and seen an increase in staff working on those games).

    No I think things are going very badly for Terry Michaels and his team and somewhere down the road we will all realize that EQ:N  is not only not Everquest but also not happening.
  • DarkVagabondDarkVagabond Member UncommonPosts: 327
    Daybreak is dead in the water.

    Planetside 2 failed to strike gold on PS4 after it burned the overwhelming majority of its PC users and H1Z1 is barely scraping by because people eat up every new DayZ clone that falls out of the sky.
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    So we'll be collecting classes and leaving a dent in norrath rather than playing casino with tab target trinity games.


    Just logging into Landmark to play with the handful of weapons with, what, three skills has me excited for EQN. Even an expanded version of Landmark with more/harder mobs would be a start. You can actually form "classes" with the equipment already in Landmark but the mobs aren't hard enough to warrant more than one player... unless you're taking acid spits to the face.

    An actual 3D world that can be harvested? Yes please. That's how materials should be collected IMO. Earning or finding other play styles (classes) and have that be part of an expanded meta? I can't wait. I hope it ends up that way, we'll see.

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