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Separating yourself from the rest...

KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
edited November 2015 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

That's what the market needs. Plenty of niche and mediocrity floating around, but a game that separates itself from the rest, once that happens you'll know because popularity, hype and positive player feedback will skyrocket. From 2000 to 2015, we've had few MMORPG's who've succeeded doing this, either through AAA budgets, unique and bold ideas or both.

Big risks can only be taken by those who are not afraid of them. Those who know exactly what they are doing and backed with strong investments. Cleary that's not the reality...at least not that I've seen in the last 5 years and longer. I've consistently been saying...it's better more minds to gather up because two heads think better than 1, work faster and so forth rather than saturate the market with almost invisible and unnoticable products that have very high chance of not receiving any revenue or grabbing a market that's essential to give a healthy lifespan to the game.

I'm only making this threads because it's truly ironic how not a single new game has managed to draw my interest enough for me to spend $ on since January 11th 2011 with DCUO being the last thx to $35 box with 30 days free. Today MMORPG's need to be accessable, preferably free so they draw big audience, relay on DLC/donations and prevent pay to win or pay to advance as well as any other hacking, cheating, exploiting as much as possible. This is crucial for games with persistent worlds.

Through these 5 years I've continuesly been enjoying gaming. The lack of great ones have not stopped me from playing. My experience will always allow me to find the best available for my taste while also voting wisely with my wallet in the direction I want gaming to move toward. All these game producers though can be very fortunate that not all are savvy veterans as I'm, otherwise whatever they've been developing over the last 6-7 years would've send them back on the drawing boards or simply exit from this market.

Exiting a market you don't understand is not a bad decision. It allows more space and freedom for the better, hungrier game producers to thrive and it's not just amateur and small companies that have followed this road. We've seen the demise of Funcom, SOE...and we've seen how even Blizzard exiting the MMORPG market as they no longer have anybody else to copy on a "successful" formula.

Pioneers like Richard Garriott are the type of developers this genre requires. The man managed to be amongst the first civilians to fly in space with 30 mil ticket purchase because he knew how to develop a 2D MMORPG that I went back to over the last 1-2 years after 14 years of exceptional gaming. That's the irony of all of this, I'm playing the same game that got me into this genre.

After all these years it still has far more to deliver while also requiring minimal maintenence or content thx to its sandbox elements, allowing players to be the one generating the content. Add the fully open world with player housing and strong polish...it makes me still regret purchasing $800 rig 3+ years ago.


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Post edited by Kopogero on
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Comments

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Blizzard is not exiting the market, it owns it, it doesn't need another MMO right now, it would just cannibalize WoW player base.
    Why people keep saying Blizzard is quitting MMOs?
    They are focusing on making games to cover slice of the market they didn't have covered yet.
    It's called diversifying your product range

    They have a MMORPG, they have a Card Game, they have a Moba so they can tap into different markets and get new customers rather than just making their existing customers moving from one game to another.
    I am sure there are still slice of the market Blizzard doesn't have covered, so expect more alternative games from them.
    That doesn't mean Blizzard are quitting MMOs..........c'mon.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Pioneers like Richard Garriott are the type of developers this genre requires. 

    Really? Remember Tabula Rasa? 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    ste2000 said:

    It's called diversifying your product range


    You do that when you don't believe the future of MMORPGs is bright. And why would they, WOW has been declining in subs, and they now stop reporting the numbers.

    OTOH, Hearthstone is reporting huge numbers and growth. Yes, they diversify ... into growing markets like MOBAs, CCG, and now a shooter. The importance of WOW is just going to decrease more and more. And they have decided not to do anything new (i.e. new game) in the MMORPG market. 

    In fact, they lost so much faith that they scrapped the one that is almost done. 
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,392
    The fact that a big mmo is losing players to lots of smaller mmos does not mean that the mmo market itself is declining. It means it is diversifying. Well, sort of. It means players are now looking for the same old crap in more than one place instead of in a single place. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Amathe said:
    The fact that a big mmo is losing players to lots of smaller mmos does not mean that the mmo market itself is declining. It means it is diversifying. Well, sort of. It means players are now looking for the same old crap in more than one place instead of in a single place. 
    If you look at top 10 MMOs (by revenue), only 3 (WoW, Lineage 1 & Maple Story) are traditional MMORPGs. 

    Players are clearly looking for things other than just traditional MMORPGs. 

    http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/23/league-of-legends-tops-mmo-revenue-list-hearthstone-no-10/
  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685

    You also forget one thing....where do you think Blizzard got all that revenue to pursue all these other markets? Diablo 3, StarCraft 2, Hearthstone, that failed Titan project and others. They sure spread/diversify, but at the cost of losing control of its biggest cash cow.

    Blizzard was generating a billion annually from WOW for many years, but too many bad decisions let them to focus on abandoning that ship, which was a stab in the back to all those who believe WOW:WoD will remedy WOW from the damage Pandaria did, sadly....reality said otherwise.

    @Nariusseldon, that's because there hasn't been a good traditional MMORPG delivered in a very long time. It's natural players to move on to other products that deliver better quality over playing medicre or P2W ones with the label MMORPG's.

    image

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194

    ste2000 said:

    It's called diversifying your product range


    You do that when you don't believe the future of MMORPGs is bright. And why would they, WOW has been declining in subs, and they now stop reporting the numbers.

    OTOH, Hearthstone is reporting huge numbers and growth. Yes, they diversify ... into growing markets like MOBAs, CCG, and now a shooter. The importance of WOW is just going to decrease more and more. And they have decided not to do anything new (i.e. new game) in the MMORPG market. 

    In fact, they lost so much faith that they scrapped the one that is almost done. 
    Blizzard is investing in other genres because they have the MMORPG well covered already as most of the big players have right now, not because they don't believe in MMORPGs.
    If Blizzard makes WoW 2 right now, guess which game is going to suffer?
    Yes WoW is losing player because it is a 10 y/o game, but it still has 4-5 years of steam, and Blizzard are not so stupid to kill it too early.

    WoW 2 is going to be made in 5 years time, you can bet on it.
    I am sure Blizzard are recruiting for that.
    Now they have a MOBA and a Card Game, they can start thinking about what comes after WoW.
    I actually won't exclude they could make World of Starcraft, instead.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    ste2000 said:


    WoW 2 is going to be made in 5 years time, you can bet on it.

    I am betting against it. I do not think Blizz would bother with a wow-like MMORPG in the next 5 years. They are clearly focusing on MOBAs, shooters, CCGs and so on.

    In fact, all i need to bet is in 5 years (2020 Nov 30, to be exact), if WOW did not anounced a WoW 2 by then, I have the right to say "I told you so". You can do the same to me, if you turn out to be right.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Kopogero said:


    Blizzard was generating a billion annually from WOW for many years, but too many bad decisions let them to focus on abandoning that ship, which was a stab in the back to all those who believe WOW:WoD will remedy WOW from the damage Pandaria did, sadly....reality said otherwise.

    @Nariusseldon, that's because there hasn't been a good traditional MMORPG delivered in a very long time. It's natural players to move on to other products that deliver better quality over playing medicre or P2W ones with the label MMORPG's.

    Bad decisions? D3 is a success (30M copies sold). Hearthstone is a success. SC2 (different versions) obviously sold a lot. I don't know about HOTS or Overwatch, but knowing Blizz, those probably are going to be hit. 

    It is not that only players are moving onto other products, AAA devs are too. And no one says they will be moving back once they are hooked on the other stuff.

    Just like once FPS took over, point & click adventures, even with the present revival, never came close to their formal glory. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Pioneers like Richard Garriott are the type of developers this genre requires. 

    Really? Remember Tabula Rasa? 
    Well in Garriott's "defense" as it were, the game was originally going to be a fantasy MMO, but was then scrapped and re-imaged as a scifi game. Possibly due to meddling from NCsoft. And then during the games run Garriott got caught up in making his dream of going into space a reality. Something I think that I too would put before worrying about an online game.
    Well, if he heart was not in it, and if he did not know how to get a "modern" game going, he should not have agreed to put his name on it.

    If he did, there is no "defense". Good or bad, it is on him. 

    In fact, he never made another big successful game after U7 (UO is not entirely his). U8 was meh, and U9 was a mess, not even playable. 
  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Funny, but I am pretty sure you played MoP and WoD... apparently you have selective memory.
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    edited December 2015

    Separating yourself from the rest...


    ^This^... I have already done a long long long time ago...

    I must say I feel ya on the purchased rig though. I spent $3000 in 2012 (having my hopes set on Tera over a 6year hype)... what a waste with nothing good to play on it.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,277
    I like when people without money give financial advice. Blizzard or any company for that matter doesn't need advice on how to succeed from anyone on this site. Just saying. Sure, one could always speculate what would be good for companies to do, but where's the facts? If it was so guaranteed that all these tips and so on would be work, wouldn't people on here just make games instead of offering 'free' advice. I get people want great games, but reality is companies just want money that can be made with the least amount of effort.
  • SalvadorbardSalvadorbard Member UncommonPosts: 100
    I don't like the whole premise that diversifying signifies a waning interest in the genre, although in Blizzard's case it's gotta be true to at least some extent. Diversifying their offerings to cover a number of bases IS a way of retaining customers that may not play WoW anymore but may like HOTS or whatever.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    I don't like the whole premise that diversifying signifies a waning interest in the genre, although in Blizzard's case it's gotta be true to at least some extent. Diversifying their offerings to cover a number of bases IS a way of retaining customers that may not play WoW anymore but may like HOTS or whatever.
    well you don't have to like it ... but it is happening.

    With some many other types of online games to try and play, why should I just play MMORPGs? More entertainment choices and more competition for my entertainment time/money is a good thing ... in my book at least. 
  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    That's what the game companies are scared to do though. Separate themselves from the rest. They are scared to take risks and it means nothing is changing but the graphics in the MMO world. The games that ARE taking risks and changing and getting better are the single player games. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,361
    ste2000 said:


    WoW 2 is going to be made in 5 years time, you can bet on it.

    I am betting against it. I do not think Blizz would bother with a wow-like MMORPG in the next 5 years. They are clearly focusing on MOBAs, shooters, CCGs and so on.

    In fact, all i need to bet is in 5 years (2020 Nov 30, to be exact), if WOW did not anounced a WoW 2 by then, I have the right to say "I told you so". You can do the same to me, if you turn out to be right.
    World of Starcraft will be their next big MMORPG, thats why they scrapped Titan, they knew they made the wrong game.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Kyleran said:
    ste2000 said:


    WoW 2 is going to be made in 5 years time, you can bet on it.

    I am betting against it. I do not think Blizz would bother with a wow-like MMORPG in the next 5 years. They are clearly focusing on MOBAs, shooters, CCGs and so on.

    In fact, all i need to bet is in 5 years (2020 Nov 30, to be exact), if WOW did not anounced a WoW 2 by then, I have the right to say "I told you so". You can do the same to me, if you turn out to be right.
    World of Starcraft will be their next big MMORPG, thats why they scrapped Titan, they knew they made the wrong game.
    I assume you will be on the bet too.

    How about if Blizz has nothing on World of Starcraft in 5 years (2020 Dec 2), i will say "I told you so" and you will admit I am right. If not, i will admit you are right, and you can tell me "I told you so"?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,361
    Kyleran said:
    ste2000 said:


    WoW 2 is going to be made in 5 years time, you can bet on it.

    I am betting against it. I do not think Blizz would bother with a wow-like MMORPG in the next 5 years. They are clearly focusing on MOBAs, shooters, CCGs and so on.

    In fact, all i need to bet is in 5 years (2020 Nov 30, to be exact), if WOW did not anounced a WoW 2 by then, I have the right to say "I told you so". You can do the same to me, if you turn out to be right.
    World of Starcraft will be their next big MMORPG, thats why they scrapped Titan, they knew they made the wrong game.
    I assume you will be on the bet too.

    How about if Blizz has nothing on World of Starcraft in 5 years (2020 Dec 2), i will say "I told you so" and you will admit I am right. If not, i will admit you are right, and you can tell me "I told you so"?
    Deal.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685

    I mean, it's been 5 years since nothing great (imo) has come to this genre, while from 2000-2010 we had Anarchy Online, FFXI, EVE, Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft...and prior Ultima Online, Lineage 2...somewhere in between Ragnarok. Some other MMORPG's worth mentioning Aion, DC Universe Online, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, etc etc.

     I mean this genre exploded and this was alongside World of Warcraft....SWTOR also came that I dont even wanna mention, but the massive budget makes me hurt how it failed hard.

    But over these last 5 years we've had basically FFXIV failed launch, SWTOR, then next year Guild Wars 2 then next year ESO, and nothing in 2015...Sorry Wild Star. But 2016-2017 look very interesting, at least 1 great MMORPG should arrive, just one is enough.

    Back to my MMORPG now that was developed in 1997...

    image

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Kopogero said:

    I mean, it's been 5 years since nothing great (imo) has come to this genre, while from 2000-2010 we had Anarchy Online, FFXI, EVE, Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft...and prior Ultima Online, Lineage 2...somewhere in between Ragnarok. Some other MMORPG's worth mentioning Aion, DC Universe Online, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, etc etc.

     I mean this genre exploded and this was alongside World of Warcraft....SWTOR also came that I dont even wanna mention, but the massive budget makes me hurt how it failed hard.

    But over these last 5 years we've had basically FFXIV failed launch, SWTOR, then next year Guild Wars 2 then next year ESO, and nothing in 2015...Sorry Wild Star. But 2016-2017 look very interesting, at least 1 great MMORPG should arrive, just one is enough.

    Back to my MMORPG now that was developed in 1997...

    TBH, I guess what people are saying is there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg. So since they all took the WoW-Clone route, they basically keep re-inventing the wheel. Then you have people from a different niche (such as you and me) who shed a tear at what mmorpg's has become today.

    To be honest, what we need is to band together as a niche crowd, where there is enough of us (meaning a few million) who can create a game (on paper) to submit to a company, signed that this crowd agree's with everything on the paper. Then get a contract with the company to create the game, and have it pay to play (monthly) with account purchases of $xx.xx each. Otherwise the companies will just keep releasing WoW-Clones, and the circle of my void continues throughout the decades.

    I have already given my opinion on what I thought would make an excellent game here (about 3 years ago) - http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/368197/lf-game-with-the-following-characteristics#latest
    Companies are trying the exact opposite of everything I suggested.

    The other option is to just create your own game, but that takes time and lots of loans (licensing fee's, patents, so forth...). I would do this, but right now I just don't have the time, and I'm working to pay off student loans, get new car, possibly a mortgage, so forth... So maybe in about 15 years I will start to develop something.


    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Vardahoth said:

    TBH, I guess what people are saying is there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg. So since they all took the WoW-Clone route, they basically keep re-inventing the wheel. Then you have people from a different niche (such as you and me) who shed a tear at what mmorpg's has become today.


    Your reasoning is flawed.

    "there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg" .. true.

    "So since they all took the WoW-Clone route" .. this is not true. They don't make wow clone anymore. They make MOBAs, shooters, instanced pvp, and other online games.

    Don't make non-wow mmorpg does not equate making wow-clones. There are a lot of other types of MMOs (and online games) to consider.


  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Vardahoth said:

    TBH, I guess what people are saying is there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg. So since they all took the WoW-Clone route, they basically keep re-inventing the wheel. Then you have people from a different niche (such as you and me) who shed a tear at what mmorpg's has become today.


    Your reasoning is flawed.

    "there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg" .. true.

    "So since they all took the WoW-Clone route" .. this is not true. They don't make wow clone anymore. They make MOBAs, shooters, instanced pvp, and other online games.

    Don't make non-wow mmorpg does not equate making wow-clones. There are a lot of other types of MMOs (and online games) to consider.


    MOBAs != MMORPG
    Shooters != MMORPG
    Instanced pvp = WoW
    Other Online games (not a wow-clone) != mmorpg (if you want to go back to what mmorpg means I will point the wiki for you)

    So your reasoning is flawed.

    For me, there are only 3 mmorpg's that comes to mind that isn't a WoW-Clone:
    • ESO, but even that game is all solo-play (with instance group dungeons = WoW), so I question the MMORPG of it. Also, no open-world pvp? Only Instanced pvp? hmmm familiar. And lets dummy it down further by only giving 5 hotbar skills. Next we'll release it with hordes of game-breaking bugs and take years and years to fix them while creating more content that keeps breaking the game more.
    • Eve - I don't consider this an mmorpg, it's more like an mmo-scifi or an mmorts. No character, no fantasy/medieval feeling to the game. No level ups. So forth...
    • Then there is darkfall - about the only game I would consider playing today if it wasn't so clunky and felt like I was a blind man swinging a sword trying to hit a pinata (the hit boxes where the characters were once were) with a bunch of naked men chasing you trying to kill you for loot. Then you want to go on a vacation for a week, and you come back and your skills you have leveled have all de-leveled a few months worth. Yes all that few months you put into leveling up your skills is now for nothing because you took a week off. On top of it, to use skills it cost items (instead of mp) for every use that you only get by killing monsters, so if all you are is a mage, you screwed yourself over.

    So let me give you my checklist of WoW, and tell me an mmorpg game that is not like this:
    • Rush to max level within a week (by yourself, not needing any groups)
    • Pay to get max level
    • No open-world pvp where you can pvp anyone (with a flagging/pk system) where the only safezones are towns, and they are at least an hour running time apart
    • Instanced dungeons and pvp (battle grounds)
    • Binded equipment (can't trade or resell)
    • Raidbosses done with less than 50 people
    • End game raidbosses take less than 10 minutes to kill
    • Factions
    • Skill Tree's
    • Lack of race diversity and starter towns
    • No death penalties
    • No journey quests to go through to upgrade your class
    • Open-World is instead seperated by state zones
    • Lack of massive siege battles where players form together and create their own guilds to win the castle/fort/camp/whatever for taxes and bonuses.
    • Lack of player run community game, meaning each player has their own story (involving and affecting other good/bad players) and is not the hero of blankity who does the exact same quests as every player in the game for that class/race.
    So as the wow-clones all came out with the things above, they progressively got worse and added:
    • No class diversity (everyone can solo now so why have them?)
    • Mommy Caps (gain this much currency, quests, instance runs this many times per week)
    • Cash shops (No need to work for anything anymore, just open your wallet and buy the next released pixel weapon)
    • Releasing games before they are finished forcing the customers to be their QA department and pay for this.
    Feel free to tell me some MMORPGs that are not like the above....

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    edited December 2015
    Vardahoth said:
    Vardahoth said:

    TBH, I guess what people are saying is there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg. So since they all took the WoW-Clone route, they basically keep re-inventing the wheel. Then you have people from a different niche (such as you and me) who shed a tear at what mmorpg's has become today.


    Your reasoning is flawed.

    "there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg" .. true.

    "So since they all took the WoW-Clone route" .. this is not true. They don't make wow clone anymore. They make MOBAs, shooters, instanced pvp, and other online games.

    Don't make non-wow mmorpg does not equate making wow-clones. There are a lot of other types of MMOs (and online games) to consider.


    MOBAs != MMORPG
    Shooters != MMORPG
    Instanced pvp = WoW
    Other Online games (not a wow-clone) != mmorpg (if you want to go back to what mmorpg means I will point the wiki for you)


    so? we are talking about what devs are going to make. They do NOT have to make mmorpgs, do they?

    In fact, Blizz is a good example. They scrapped Titan (mmorpg) and make new non-mmorpgs (a moba, a shooter, and a card game to be exact).

    So what is the problem of my reasoning? Don't tell me you think devs are confined to ONLY making MMORPGs. 
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Vardahoth said:
    Vardahoth said:

    TBH, I guess what people are saying is there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg. So since they all took the WoW-Clone route, they basically keep re-inventing the wheel. Then you have people from a different niche (such as you and me) who shed a tear at what mmorpg's has become today.


    Your reasoning is flawed.

    "there isn't a non-WoW crowd big enough for companies to want to invest developing an mmorpg" .. true.

    "So since they all took the WoW-Clone route" .. this is not true. They don't make wow clone anymore. They make MOBAs, shooters, instanced pvp, and other online games.

    Don't make non-wow mmorpg does not equate making wow-clones. There are a lot of other types of MMOs (and online games) to consider.


    MOBAs != MMORPG
    Shooters != MMORPG
    Instanced pvp = WoW
    Other Online games (not a wow-clone) != mmorpg (if you want to go back to what mmorpg means I will point the wiki for you)


    so? we are talking about what devs are going to make. They do NOT have to make mmorpgs, do they?

    In fact, Blizz is a good example. They scrapped Titan (mmorpg) and make new non-mmorpgs (a moba, a shooter, and a card game to be exact).

    So what is the problem of my reasoning? Don't tell me you think devs are confined to ONLY making MMORPGs. 
    If you read my first post you responded to , you would see I was referring to the mmorpg genre. I wasn't talking about non-mmorpg video games. (Note: when making a reference to something within the same paragraph, it's not required to re-reference it)

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

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