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Tired of the Nickle&Dime

13

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  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Talonsin said:
    Did I mention I had bought the game at release? Well I did, one of the main reasons I hate the F2P model as it takes away things I paid for when I bought the boxed game, but I digress.

    What did you pay for when you purchased the boxed game?  Did they not give you the 30 days of game time with everything unlocked?  Could you show me on the box where it says for that one time purchase you would have access to all game content for life?

    Unrealistic expectations.
    I'm not talking about game content, I'm talking about basic things like a functioning UI. The game was designed with many abilities for each of the classes and it was also designed with a UI that would allow you to hotkey those abilities.

    Removing hotbars from the basic game and then charging money for them is fucking disgusting. Can you name one other F2P MMO that charges a premium for additional hotbars? Is that not something that should be included as part of the basic game? Is that unrealistic? And who is the money grubbing scumbag that decided to charge people for a tick box that toggles head gear on and off? How petty is that?

    You also got a bunch of coins for being an owner of the original game and a former subscriber, and could've easily put those to good use to get rid of the restrictions you don't like without having to spend extra money on it. You just chose to use that currency for other things instead of making life easier on yourself, and then go around demanding that they should unlock those for you just because you gave them money in the past.


    Suppose I never bought the game. Suppose I started playing after it went F2P, no preferred status, no coins. I'd be faced with a game that has probably the most severe restrictions in the F2P market available today. No matter what you say or what arguments you raise you can't possibly tell me or anyone that charging people for hotbars is justified. It's part of the game UI, it's an integral part of the game that you can't play without. It's retarded. Charging people to have access to a toggle head gear tick box is petty and money grabbing of the worst kind. It's retarded.



    I have 4 kids and they all play SWTOR. Some more than others, but they all play it. I also played it, I also pre-ordered (but cancelled during the pre-launch beta because support couldn't unlock my account), but came back and subbed for a few months after the initial launch. After my sub I had enough money to buy any and all unlocks that I needed, both through cartel coins and through the GTN. My kids have also unlocked nearly anything that they would ever need through the GTN. They've never subbed, but they are preferred since they've bought updates with their own money. 

    As far as I'm concerned, the SWTOR restrictions aren't as horrible as you're making them out to be. As far as hot bars go, I'm not sure whether there are unlocks for them or not. I will generally subscribe if I'm going to play through a new expack, so I don't know if it's affected me or not. All I know is I'd much rather have the SWTOR model where I COULD unlock stuff using in-game gold only, if I really wanted. Rather than some game where I am severely hampered late-game unless I buy out of the cash shop. 

    Crazkanuk

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  • ButeoRegalisButeoRegalis Member UncommonPosts: 594
    edited December 2015
    "And who is the money grubbing scumbag that decided to charge people for a tick box that toggles head gear on and off? How petty is that?"
    I really hate this one as well, in particular when I'm stuck with a superiorly ugly headpiece.

    That being said..., this is the definition of "cosmetic", so stop being a whiner, suck it up and pay the couple hundred or whatever cartel coins. Enabling the authenticator on your account gives you a 100cc stipend per month. Save that up for a while and, boom, done, didn't pay a dime.

    image

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    edited December 2015
    CrazKanuk said:
    Talonsin said:
    Did I mention I had bought the game at release? Well I did, one of the main reasons I hate the F2P model as it takes away things I paid for when I bought the boxed game, but I digress.

    What did you pay for when you purchased the boxed game?  Did they not give you the 30 days of game time with everything unlocked?  Could you show me on the box where it says for that one time purchase you would have access to all game content for life?

    Unrealistic expectations.
    I'm not talking about game content, I'm talking about basic things like a functioning UI. The game was designed with many abilities for each of the classes and it was also designed with a UI that would allow you to hotkey those abilities.

    Removing hotbars from the basic game and then charging money for them is fucking disgusting. Can you name one other F2P MMO that charges a premium for additional hotbars? Is that not something that should be included as part of the basic game? Is that unrealistic? And who is the money grubbing scumbag that decided to charge people for a tick box that toggles head gear on and off? How petty is that?

    You also got a bunch of coins for being an owner of the original game and a former subscriber, and could've easily put those to good use to get rid of the restrictions you don't like without having to spend extra money on it. You just chose to use that currency for other things instead of making life easier on yourself, and then go around demanding that they should unlock those for you just because you gave them money in the past.


    Suppose I never bought the game. Suppose I started playing after it went F2P, no preferred status, no coins. I'd be faced with a game that has probably the most severe restrictions in the F2P market available today. No matter what you say or what arguments you raise you can't possibly tell me or anyone that charging people for hotbars is justified. It's part of the game UI, it's an integral part of the game that you can't play without. It's retarded. Charging people to have access to a toggle head gear tick box is petty and money grabbing of the worst kind. It's retarded.



    I have 4 kids and they all play SWTOR. Some more than others, but they all play it. I also played it, I also pre-ordered (but cancelled during the pre-launch beta because support couldn't unlock my account), but came back and subbed for a few months after the initial launch. After my sub I had enough money to buy any and all unlocks that I needed, both through cartel coins and through the GTN. My kids have also unlocked nearly anything that they would ever need through the GTN. They've never subbed, but they are preferred since they've bought updates with their own money. 

    As far as I'm concerned, the SWTOR restrictions aren't as horrible as you're making them out to be. As far as hot bars go, I'm not sure whether there are unlocks for them or not. I will generally subscribe if I'm going to play through a new expack, so I don't know if it's affected me or not. All I know is I'd much rather have the SWTOR model where I COULD unlock stuff using in-game gold only, if I really wanted. Rather than some game where I am severely hampered late-game unless I buy out of the cash shop. 
    The unlocks for the action bars are there, and they are pretty cheap as far as the unlocks go. (Unless you start buying them per character instead of getting the account wide unlock twice, which is entirely on the player then.)

    jmcdermottuk I still don't see the big deal. Other MMOs lock classes behind a paywall, or have tons of different micro purchases you need to make to have access to all content, for me the UI options is just another alternative to that. Not a single F2P MMO out there is completely free. Even DDO and and LOTRO have stepped away from letting you earn everything through gameplay if I'm not mistaken (these days you have to buy certain expansions) - while others give you the illusion that it's possible, while secretly counting on you giving in and paying for the damn stuff somewhere along the way, once you realize the futility of the grind it takes to get certain things on that game.

    At the end of the day it simply comes down to what you can stand, and what you can't. Just like you, I'm a subscriber, so I don't have to deal with it. But I know plenty of F2Pers in game that aren't bothered by any of it. They just run around with their little buckets covering their faces and manage just fine with their action bars. You don't need all six to play effectively, especially not after 4.0 cut down on "ability bloat" by removing or automatically replacing certain abilities, and having an extra bar pop up for Heroic moment, Throw the Hutt Ball and other stuff you're only using in certain situations.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Member UncommonPosts: 2,156
    SWTOR going F2P pretty much is why my guild of 450+ people (started in SWG) left the game, the restrictions is one of the worst and my guild being PvP based even when subscribed (and preferred status) after it going F2P we couldn't access our PvP gear, and among other things.  Even when subscribed, you pretty much had to buy some things on the market to keep up with those that spent money on ingame items, the last time I logged in I saw people riding around in that Emporor's chair which is only obtainable through the cartel market, or as such.  Most aren't game changing but it separates the playerbase in some ways.  AarcheAge is another example of a horrible F2P system model (ironically that's where my guild went).

    I'm a Star Wars fan and I don't even have the slightest desire to play TOR.

    image
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  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Been saying these exact same things ever since they went f2p, nobody cares since it is Star Wars. Other games try to do the same and the gaming world bury them but not SWTOR, they get leeway simply because they are STAR FUCKING WARS!!!

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • FlintsteenFlintsteen Member UncommonPosts: 282
    Yes i think the restrictions on actionbars, playertitles, hide headpiece, not getting all quest rewards and alot more are beeing petty and keeping swtor from having more f2p players. I'd say even credit cap is stupid since a f2p/preferred player cant afford to buy most of the cartel market items that are put up for auction.

    Having said that, when you pay nothing you realy sound cheap when asking for more free stuff. I dont know if a  f2p version where you would get more unlocks for free would result in more money for EA/Bioware or only result in more f2p/preferred players.

    I suspect thoose unlocks are selling pretty well, especially to players thinking about dropping their subscription for some time,  or even just to players who want their friend(s) to try out swtor and buy's them a few of the more important unlocks (crewskill, actionbars)  If thoose unlocks were free that revenue would need to come from somewhere else.

    If a "free'er" f2p would just end up with more free players nothing is realy won. It may even result in less subs. Then again getting a new subscriber relies on free players to try the game and find it fun.

    It's not so simple. I do agree though that if it hadn't been for it beeing starwars swtor would most likely have shut down long ago.  Probably wouldn't have made it to the f2p stage.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Player base should take some responsibility for our situation.  Too much bitching about spending money.  We went from paying dollars per hour to monthly sub but no that costs to much.  People demanding free to play games and other demands.  Well, businesses have expenses and so they will do what they believe they have to do to make money.

    Complaining about the a toggle or bar having a cost.  Well, what are you willing to spend money on?  Say they give you those things, does that mean you start spending money?  I think you won't.  You just don't want to spend money.  Don't replay with some BS about you would pay for a game (aka 'perfect game').  Money talks BS demands free stuff.
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  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,926
    edited December 2015
    If you think the game is worth playing you should sub. If you do not think it is worth a sub either find a game that is or realize you will have limitations. These games are only "Free" to play, if you don't want the full experience.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,926
    Roin said:
    Horusra said:
    neonaka said:
    @Horusra - You and those like you are the exact reason game companies release half finished products, sell you one thing then give you another, or otherwise try to squeeze every single penny you have from your pocket. The reason is because you gladly take it with a smile on your face.

    Here let me sell you a table and 6 chairs, I will be back in 30 days to saw all the legs off of them and chop them in half. Yeah I know you paid for them but I built them so I can do whatever I want to them after the fact, you know cause you will let me and it will be fine. 
    What a dumb example.  Whiners like you brought us the joy of suck we know as F2P.  You have no clue that you have not bought anyhing.  You rent.  You do not deserve anything if you stop renting.  

    To your dumb example if your table is from Rent-a-Center and you stop paying they take your table.  They do not care you paid 10 out of 12 months.  Try whining to them about being unfair.
    And you are still missing the point like so many others in this thread. It isn't about him losing the table. It's the fact that you lose anything that might be on the table at the time it is also taken. That is how EA/BW treats your characters. Paid for extra character slots then let sub lapse? They are gone. Until you resub of course. So in a sense you are pretty much paying them extra, for something you already paid for.
    And you missed his point.....if you got something while you were subbing, you were RENTING it. When you stop paying you don't get it again until you start paying again. Pretty clear to me. As for other items missing, that is an issue and a legit complaint. But this has nothing to do with f2p.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,926
    hfamgamer said:
     And that message is EA only cares for those customers who pay.

     
    Well....yea.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    waynejr2 said:
    Player base should take some responsibility for our situation.  Too much bitching about spending money.  We went from paying dollars per hour to monthly sub but no that costs to much.  People demanding free to play games and other demands.  Well, businesses have expenses and so they will do what they believe they have to do to make money.

    Complaining about the a toggle or bar having a cost.  Well, what are you willing to spend money on?  Say they give you those things, does that mean you start spending money?  I think you won't.  You just don't want to spend money.  Don't replay with some BS about you would pay for a game (aka 'perfect game').  Money talks BS demands free stuff.
    Ignorance is not bliss, nobody here complaining about spending money, we are complaining that the money we spent over the years mean so little to eaware austin.

    And action bar, helmet or cape or shoulder pad hiding, title showing; they are basic function of mmorpg. There are games that even come out with 8-12 action bars, swtor only have 6 and they have the nerve to monetize 4 of them. And you go to a restaurant, order food and they tell you that you have to pay extra to sit on table and chair, pay extra to use their spoon and plates, how would you feel? table, chair, plate, spoons; they all are common functional feature of a restaurant, no owner in their right mind would even think of monetizing them. But eaware austin does the exact same thing here simply because they have Star Wars name attached on it, we all know how dumb people get when it comes to Star Wars.

    Let me ask this : if this game was not named Star Wars, jedi class were named paladin/priest, sith were named dark knight/cabalist, lightsabers were called energy sword, everything else stayed the same, they release the game as f2p and says that non subscribers including former subscribers will have to pay for action bar, to show the title they earned playing game, to hide helmet or cape or shoulder pad, to accept quest/mission reward and on top of that former subscriber lose access to more than half the game content; would come out here and so blindly defend their business?

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • FlintsteenFlintsteen Member UncommonPosts: 282
    waynejr2 said:
    Player base should take some responsibility for our situation.  Too much bitching about spending money.  We went from paying dollars per hour to monthly sub but no that costs to much.  People demanding free to play games and other demands.  Well, businesses have expenses and so they will do what they believe they have to do to make money.

    Complaining about the a toggle or bar having a cost.  Well, what are you willing to spend money on?  Say they give you those things, does that mean you start spending money?  I think you won't.  You just don't want to spend money.  Don't replay with some BS about you would pay for a game (aka 'perfect game').  Money talks BS demands free stuff.
    Ignorance is not bliss, nobody here complaining about spending money, we are complaining that the money we spent over the years mean so little to eaware austin.

    And action bar, helmet or cape or shoulder pad hiding, title showing; they are basic function of mmorpg. There are games that even come out with 8-12 action bars, swtor only have 6 and they have the nerve to monetize 4 of them. And you go to a restaurant, order food and they tell you that you have to pay extra to sit on table and chair, pay extra to use their spoon and plates, how would you feel? table, chair, plate, spoons; they all are common functional feature of a restaurant, no owner in their right mind would even think of monetizing them. But eaware austin does the exact same thing here simply because they have Star Wars name attached on it, we all know how dumb people get when it comes to Star Wars.

    Let me ask this : if this game was not named Star Wars, jedi class were named paladin/priest, sith were named dark knight/cabalist, lightsabers were called energy sword, everything else stayed the same, they release the game as f2p and says that non subscribers including former subscribers will have to pay for action bar, to show the title they earned playing game, to hide helmet or cape or shoulder pad, to accept quest/mission reward and on top of that former subscriber lose access to more than half the game content; would come out here and so blindly defend their business?
    I'm still not sure whether EA/Bioware would win or loose by giving you more free stuff.  Yes it sucks,  especially for the players who payed for the boxed game.  If there was a way to differentiate between players who payed for the game and players who didn't i'd be ok with that,  but not sure it would make sense from a buissness point of view.

    However,  the game you payed for was a subscription only game.  If you subscribe all the game is open for you again.  Before 1.4  if you stopped subscribing you wouldn't be able to play swtor anymore.  Now you are able to play for free.  A limited version i know,  but it's free.  

    The point is it's not the same game anymore.  The boxed game you have allways needed a subscription,  and it still does.  The free version is pretty poor,  but it's free.
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 675
    edited December 2015
    Just came back to check out the game post 4.0.  All my companion customizations were removed.  I have to sub again to be able to put them back on.  A minor thing I know, but they really do not give half a flying rats ass about customers.  I can't even open tickets since I am not subbed.  The game is not worth the sub fee, and the cartel coin costs are all way too high.  I really don't like how they give zero consideration to non subbed customers, regardless of how much money they have invested in the game.  I guess I won't be coming back after all.

    It is amazing that there are players in here supporting the terrible business practices used in this game.  Is anyone familiar with the services where you can subscribe and get wine delivered to you every month?  This would be like if you let your sub lapse and they came in and took all the wine you had already received.

    You can argue all you want that it is a subscription game, but that is not how it was marketed, not what they were selling me when they last convinced me to sub, not what they promise on their own website.
  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    What do you expect from a company like EA, thats why I dont buy their games or play them. Theyre so greedy and unscrupulous it makes it impossible to even enjoy any of them. They should have shot themselves in their collective foot when it was in their collective mouth. 
  • FlintsteenFlintsteen Member UncommonPosts: 282
    At first yes it was clearly marketed as a subscription game.  I know that's a long time ago and it isn't anymore,  but if you payed for the game you payed for a subscription SWTOR.  

    Today it's "marketed"  (it realy isn't,  the marketing is abysmal) as a f2p game and the game you get for free is less than the boxed version we payed for at launch.  I know,  alot of the restrictions are petty and i'm not a fan of their f2p version,  but to my knowledge they never marketed the f2p game to be anything more than it is.

    If you want to play the boxed version of the game you still need to subscribe. The full version of swtor never went f2p.  If it's greedy to ask for money for their product,  then i guess EA is greedy.

     I just like that i can still log in even though i'm not paying a subscription anymore.  Not that i log in that much either,  but that's why i stopped my sub. Didn't like the direction swtor was/is going so i stopped my sub.
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,784
    You know, you get what you pay for. Or, you don't get what you don't pay for. F2p games of any sort are shallow at best for the "free" player and over priced for those that pay a sub or large amounts of money in microtransactions. Who fault is it? You could say it is the companies for offering up so-called f2p in the first place. Or, you could place the blame on all those people that justify f2p models and say it gives you freedom to play how you want. Go ahead and believe that last bit...but it simply is not and can not be true. Someone has to pay for the non-paying player and that someone is NOT the non-paying player. I refuse to play ANY f2p games anymore. There is nothing that could drag me back to a game like SWTOR as long as they have a f2p model.....and I am a huge fan of Star Wars.

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  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,308
    edited December 2015
    I am subbed to SWTOR, thats enough for me, I dont buy more cartel coins, i get  500 free every month + 100 for extra security.
  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 457
    EA's FTP model has always sucked.  Many others do a better job with this.  I personally have no problem paying for content but want to be treated fairly.  I too purchased the collector's for this game and was wildly disappointed following the launch... Lesson learned.

    While the game has improved, the model has not.  There are a lot of other titles out there more deserving of your attention (Tera comes to mind)

    I too would hope that EA loses the Star Wars license.  They have abused it enough.

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • fs23otmfs23otm Member RarePosts: 505
    Bah.. the horrible whining in this thread is so typical.

    F2P is SWTOR is no more then an unlimited trial.... sure you can unlock pieces of other stuff, but you need to subscribe to get real benefits. 

    That is their model.... deal with it... pay the 14.99 and get full access. No different then WoW, FFXIV, or any other p2p game.

    You, who whine about the crappy f2p model, just are ignorant and think f2p means f2p the whole game.
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    edited December 2015
    SWTOR's f2p model serves it's purpose quite well.  It gives you access to all 8 story lines which is way more than freeloaders deserve.

    Freeloaders do NOT get to make demands or complains.

    You like the game? Subscribe or at least spend 5 lousy bucks and become preferred.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    The welfare socialist everyone should be equal crowd is attacking again.  If you originally bought the game you got credits for unlockd.  Your fault if you wasted them.  Maybe EA should be like a government and have a division to make sure you are spending properly.
  • DauntisDauntis Member UncommonPosts: 600
    They should really just require a sub and knock the ala carte, nickel and dime crap off. I hate getting gear from missions and not being able to use it unless I pay real money for it. Just require the sub and clear up all of this nonsense freeloader complaining. (Oh wait... the game was bleeding before going "free". Hmph, no easy answers.)

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  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    edited December 2015
    Dauntis said:
    They should really just require a sub and knock the ala carte, nickel and dime crap off. I hate getting gear from missions and not being able to use it unless I pay real money for it. Just require the sub and clear up all of this nonsense freeloader complaining. (Oh wait... the game was bleeding before going "free". Hmph, no easy answers.)
    At this moment they could just say free version is extended trial and block off all the jedi and sith class. Then say that to play without limit all people have to do is sub and get access to whole game or if non sub then buy dlc. For fallen empire they can ask 15$ once for current chapters as they are doing now and 5$ each for later releases or as usual keep sub and at the end of all chapter release cumulative sub cost would grant access to whole story line and so on and so so forth. Going buy2play with optional sub along with cumulative sub/purchase of cc based loyalty scheme could bring back a lot of players and make them a lot of money still.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • KoroshiyaKoroshiya Member UncommonPosts: 265
    edited December 2015
    It's real simple:

    Quit taking away from non paying customers, and starting GIVING to paying customers.  Make the cash shop mounts, skins and xp boosters.  Non paying customers get normal game no restrictions, paying customers get 50% more exp, 5 random chests and the normal cash shop stipend.  

    /shrug, I would sub for that... but as it stands now, I quit playing (Bought at launch, came back about 5 months ago as full sub) because I don't think their sub value is worth it currently, and the non sub lock outs are just too much of a hassle for me to deal with.  Too many games, too many options and I don't NEED to play in a Star Wars world, so for me, their payment model just makes sure I never play their game again.

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  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 675
    I ended up buying the sub deal they have going on Origin.  I am having fun, having my companions looking like I am used to, buying up the bank and bag space I have been needing.  But really, their method of monetizing their game is still annoying and bad.

    Really makes me wonder what the initial F2P logic was like.  The most valuable thing they had to offer was the story, but they decided to give that away.  They decided it would be more profitable to try to annoy players into giving them money rather than have them sub to keep getting more story updates.

    With latest expansion, they seem to finally be realizing that tying subs to actual content is the best idea, but they have yet to fix up the first 60 levels of playing, or the loads of "annoy them into paying" stuff.

    Of course, since I let them annoy me into subbing temporarily, I am part of the problem now.  Oops.

    This game is not worth 15 a month right now.  The engine is horrid, with the UI sucking up 30+ frames a second in combat.  There seems to still be a memory leak as occasionally I need to restart the game to have player FPS.  The game itself is unstable in the latest version of windows 10, leading me to get dxgmms2.sys BSODs.  The  multiplayer aspect of the game is largely worthless, and my understanding is that all the multiplayer stuff is lower priority now to focus on the story.  These are issues they do not seem to care about, and will probably not get fixed.

    The story content is good, the voice acting is good, the incredible scope of the game is good, but the terrible engine and greed are holding those things back.  Fix the damn game or lower the sub to 10 a month (which I would say is fair, and what I paid with the origin deal going on atm).

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