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Whats your thoughts on this "Top 10 Reasons MMORPG's Die" break down?

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,115
Whats your thoughts on this "Top 10 Reasons MMORPG's Die" break down?

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«13

Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,852
    First impression does matter because i can tell if a game is made by clueless developers in the first 10 minutes.
    All his points are valid and i am sure there are many more.It kind of tells us that there are many reasons why a game will rub people the wrong way and chances are given so many bad ideas in these games they are bound to piss a high majority off.

    The comical part is that many people know or have a good idea they won't like a certain game but go out and buy it anyhow,then of course quit within a few weeks.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,852
    I don't agree with copying WOW as being too hard,it is actually really easy,the ONLY difference is the Blizzard logo you won't have.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • evgen88evgen88 Member UncommonPosts: 120
    I think wow isn't really the number one problem, all the other points just make it the defacto game for a lot of MMORPG players. Myself I look at the situation, and for most MMORPGs they are just starting, aren''t making much money, but still manage to deliver a lot. While WoW is raking in money, and still just delivers the same amount of content that the others do, from what I hear it isn't even done well a lot of the time. If you want the gaming industry to improve you really have to talk with your wallet. So I won't pay for WoW or any EA games.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Wizardry said:


    The comical part is that many people know or have a good idea they won't like a certain game but go out and buy it anyhow,then of course quit within a few weeks.
    Who is doing that? Why would anyone go out buy a game they do not like? Plus, most MMOs are f2p anyway. Who needs to "buy anything" to play a few weeks?
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,115
    Wizardry said:


    The comical part is that many people know or have a good idea they won't like a certain game but go out and buy it anyhow,then of course quit within a few weeks.
    Who is doing that? Why would anyone go out buy a game they do not like? Plus, most MMOs are f2p anyway. Who needs to "buy anything" to play a few weeks?
    Did you forget Darkfall 1 release hype? Many people didnt like Open World FFA full loot got the game, and left after first month because of it. the bad features out weigh the good. People still buy it to try it.

    image

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    edited November 2015
    10 - disagree 100%. My favorite mmorpgs (lineage 2 and ragnarok online) back in 2001-2006 were major time sinkers, but I got to choose when to progress my character in the game. The only event I had to worry about showing up for were sieges every 2 weeks.

    9 - Don't agree or disagree. I'm the type who cares less about what people say. Although if promises are made and not delivered, I do agree that is wrong.

    8 - Yup, bots and pvpScriptUsers is what really killed lineage 2 from being the #1 mmorpg game.

    7 - Yup, this is what made me stop playing L2 all together (the GOD update). I refuse to touch any game with cash shops, eventually all games with cash shops will update to pay to win.

    6 - Disagree. If you had a good mmorpg game, it would blow all the other ones out of the water, or force the other ones to actually be good.

    5 - Don't really care, but if you keep making all these games solo-play, there really is no community.

    4 - meh, I wouldn't mind playing another L2, but I fail to see anyone making another game like it. I never liked WoW, so the wow clones have lead me off this genre.

    3 - whatever, if it takes them a few days or a week to get it working, it's not enough for me to stop playing (as long as it's a good game).

    2 - disagree, I loved leveling, and the fastforward leveling is what killed the games for me. Although in lineage 2, there was plenty to do at end game. Crafting and getting better gear, pvp, seiges, olympiad, and so forth...

    1 - I agree but on a different level. I never liked WoW, but 90% of the population did. So companies try to copy the game, and I would rather not touch it.

    Haven't touched an mmorpg since 2012. Haven't played an mmorpg longer than 1month since 2006. Reasons are in my signature.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Wizardry said:


    The comical part is that many people know or have a good idea they won't like a certain game but go out and buy it anyhow,then of course quit within a few weeks.
    Who is doing that? Why would anyone go out buy a game they do not like? Plus, most MMOs are f2p anyway. Who needs to "buy anything" to play a few weeks?
    Did you forget Darkfall 1 release hype? Many people didnt like Open World FFA full loot got the game, and left after first month because of it. the bad features out weigh the good. People still buy it to try it.
    "buy it to try it" no longer applies to f2p (which is dominant). Even steam has a money back guarantee.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

    DMKano said:


    the market is driven by majority not minority, and majority doesn't care about classic mmorpgs
    I think this is pretty clear. If you look at trends of online games: MOBAs, instanced pvp, shooters and so on .... and not even Blizz is going to make another classical type MMORPG.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    Wizardry said:


    The comical part is that many people know or have a good idea they won't like a certain game but go out and buy it anyhow,then of course quit within a few weeks.
    Who is doing that? Why would anyone go out buy a game they do not like? Plus, most MMOs are f2p anyway. Who needs to "buy anything" to play a few weeks?
    Did you forget Darkfall 1 release hype? Many people didnt like Open World FFA full loot got the game, and left after first month because of it. the bad features out weigh the good. People still buy it to try it.
    "buy it to try it" no longer applies to f2p (which is dominant). Even steam has a money back guarantee.

    Sure wish I had purchased ESO on Steam, then I could have gotten a refund.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Kyleran said:

    Sure wish I had purchased ESO on Steam, then I could have gotten a refund.
    Absolutely. My son did exactly that. Try ESO and had it refunded.

    In this day and age of f2p, demos and refunds, no one needs to pay for anything they do not like. 
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    DMKano said:
    Starts out talking abut MMORPGs, then switches to MMOs......

    If you have a mmorpg list - might want to stick to actual mmorpgs only.

    Mmorpgs were popular 15 years ago, it doesn't mean that they have to remain popular.

    Why are we making an assumption that mmorpgs must stay popular?


    I don't understand............aren't SWTOR, ESO, Tera or Archeage MMORPGs?
    Why you say he is not talking about MMORPGs?
    Can you clarify it?

    And for your info MMORPGs are still popular and will remain so, though not as popular as other type of game but they are.
    Player got more demanding though, so they will not invest in any "copy & paste" MMORPGs, there are already hundreds out there, that's why they fail, not because people stopped liking the genre.
    There is always room for original ideas, look at Star Citizen, $100 raised for its new ideas which are still mainly on paper.
    Reason why at the moment the market is stagnant is because there are too many MMORPGs for the size of the market.
    So you either come up with something original or you fail.

  • RedAlert539RedAlert539 Member UncommonPosts: 115
    edited November 2015
    The reasons why mmos are not doing well atm are simple imo. The market is oversaturated and the target group of players is constantly shrinking. And that's because times are changing. The new trend in multiplayer online gaming is mobas. Today's generation of players don't care about really investing time into a game to create and advance their characters nor do they give a damn about rpg elements at all. They just want to log in, thrown into an arena with other players, bust some heads and off to the next match. 
    Imo mmos are not dying. The genre is just going through it's greatest crisis thus far, is all. That's why, in the upcoming years, we're gonna see few to none major western releases and all the new ones will be either ks projects catering to niche crowds or korean transitions. While at the same time everyone and their mother will be trying to grab a piece of the moba market.
    After a few years when the dust will have settled down and the moba genre will be facing the exact same problems, the mmo market will begin to flourish again. I'm not a fortunteller or an economics analyst or anything, just my 2 cents on the matter. Cheers.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774

    The new trend in multiplayer online gaming is mobas. 
    I will dispute that. MOBA is NOT the only trend.

    Online shooters (whether you call them MMOs or not) are still popular. In fact, Blizz is jumping into this market. 

    CCGs are also popular thanks to Blizz & MTG.

    World of Tanks type instanced pvp games (not MOBAs0 are also popular.

    There are lots of popular online games, just that old fashion (and i mean wow) type MMORPGs are in decline. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357

    The new trend in multiplayer online gaming is mobas. 
    I will dispute that. MOBA is NOT the only trend.

    Online shooters (whether you call them MMOs or not) are still popular. In fact, Blizz is jumping into this market. 

    CCGs are also popular thanks to Blizz & MTG.

    World of Tanks type instanced pvp games (not MOBAs0 are also popular.

    There are lots of popular online games, just that old fashion (and i mean wow) type MMORPGs are in decline. 
    MMORPGS need to incorporate some of the ideas found in survival MMOs IMO in order to invigorate the genre, meaning bring back risk vs reward and meaningful progression and loss.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Kyleran said:

    The new trend in multiplayer online gaming is mobas. 
    I will dispute that. MOBA is NOT the only trend.

    Online shooters (whether you call them MMOs or not) are still popular. In fact, Blizz is jumping into this market. 

    CCGs are also popular thanks to Blizz & MTG.

    World of Tanks type instanced pvp games (not MOBAs0 are also popular.

    There are lots of popular online games, just that old fashion (and i mean wow) type MMORPGs are in decline. 
    MMORPGS need to incorporate some of the ideas found in survival MMOs IMO in order to invigorate the genre, meaning bring back risk vs reward and meaningful progression and loss.
    I don't know what they need to do. But may be the answer is that no one is going to invigorate the genre.

    Devs don't have to make MMORPGs. Isn't it easier for them just to go to a new genre and use totally new ideas than to shackle themselves with old MMORPGs design, and just adjust stuff on the margin?
  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,392
    Just like any thing in life sometimes it can be the little things, and some times it can be the big things. I only know why I have quit MMOs that I enjoyed in the past. Usually, it involved the gameplay changing drastically either at end game (WoW, EQ, Rift, other raid centric level grinds) or during the game itself(DAoC, DDO). Developers lose sight of what made the game popular, and try to change it to suit the current markets needs.

    As to why I don't like new games I've tried? Simple, they brought nothing new to the table(SWTOR, ESO, GW2, etc). I don't want to play the same boring grind crap that has existed since the dawn of MMOs.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    Kyleran said:

    The new trend in multiplayer online gaming is mobas. 
    I will dispute that. MOBA is NOT the only trend.

    Online shooters (whether you call them MMOs or not) are still popular. In fact, Blizz is jumping into this market. 

    CCGs are also popular thanks to Blizz & MTG.

    World of Tanks type instanced pvp games (not MOBAs0 are also popular.

    There are lots of popular online games, just that old fashion (and i mean wow) type MMORPGs are in decline. 
    MMORPGS need to incorporate some of the ideas found in survival MMOs IMO in order to invigorate the genre, meaning bring back risk vs reward and meaningful progression and loss.
    I don't know what they need to do. But may be the answer is that no one is going to invigorate the genre.

    Devs don't have to make MMORPGs. Isn't it easier for them just to go to a new genre and use totally new ideas than to shackle themselves with old MMORPGs design, and just adjust stuff on the margin?
    Fortunately not everyone takes the easy road.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 275
    This video lost all credibility when he stated that "WoW looked at EQ2 and copied it".  Umm, WoW and EQ2 were released at the same damn time, how do you copy something when it's released at the same time?  Wow was successful because it took a look at the current MMORPG market and copied what was there and made it better.  They took out all the stuff that people hated and put together a solid game with little bugs (comparable to the time) which made it a huge success.

    I don't believe the market is saturated either, I believe the market has a lot of MMORPGs that people just don't want to play.  There are a generation of players that are looking for a solid subscription based MMORPG to play and there just hasn't been one for a long ass time.

    Every game released in the last 10 years has been pay to win, micro transactions, in game shops and all that bullshit.  There are a generation of players who don't want that, we want to pay 1 price per month and get the entire game.  Whoever releases that will see a level of success not seen in quite some time in the market.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Kyleran said:

    Fortunately not everyone takes the easy road.
    "Fortunate" is a matter of perspective. It will be very unfortunately for the devs to try and fail. 
  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552
    Kyleran said:

    Fortunately not everyone takes the easy road.
    "Fortunate" is a matter of perspective. It will be very unfortunately for the devs to try and fail. 
    "Fail" is also a matter of perspective. Not every game can have massive audiences and simply copying the features of a popular game is far from guaranteed to make your game popular. A game which aims for an under-served niche market and captures a good portion of that market is not a failure. 
  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    MMos don't really ever die, they just change.
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Luiden said:

    Every game released in the last 10 years has been pay to win, micro transactions, in game shops and all that bullshit.  There are a generation of players who don't want that, we want to pay 1 price per month and get the entire game.  Whoever releases that will see a level of success not seen in quite some time in the market.
    I agree with your entire post, but I want to comment on the last part though.
    Few of the big MMOs started with the Subscription model (SWTOR, Wildstar to name a couple), yet they failed.
    Having a subscription is not a guarantee the game will succeed, in fact the failings of those big titles gave the wrong impression that the whole Subscription model is antiquate, which is not.
    I am one of those looking for a Subscription only MMO, but the reality is there is no MMORPG at the moment that can hold my attention for more than a couple of months.
    Devs needs to start making Social MMOs again, not single player games with a Multiplayer function glued to it.

    Between Skyrim and ESO I prefer playing Skyrim.
    Why would I want to play ESO?
    The way is built, having other players around is more of a nuisance than an added asset.
    MMORPGs has to be radically different  from single player games, and adding the Multiplayer function to it and calling them MMORPGs doesn't really cut it for me.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited November 2015
    Ill add some more:

    Subscription payment model: 15$/month just to be able to play your game. And lets face it, content updates in MMOs are scarce and when it finally arrived you had to pay new game price on top of subscription for fracton of content of new game that costs as much. It lasted for a while, but it was clear its not going to last.

    Changes that substantially change the game. In single player game you can completely control your experience. In MMO - nope. Lets just take most recent example of SWTOR companion nerfs. It pissed off lot of people and im pretty sure a lot are not coming back. Then lets just look at how many such examples there were through time.

    MMOs will always have their small niche audience, but for time being, big AAA MMOs that cost hundred(s) of millions of $ are history. The kicker is - if you want a MMO that has a lot of stuff - it really does cost a lot ot make. And i dont see this changing until some revolutionary concept arrives, and when that happens im sure there will be plenty "MMO veterans" that will claim that "its not MMO since its nothing like <insert (old school) MMO of your choosing>"
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited November 2015
    Malabooga said:

    MMOs will always have their small niche audience, but for time being, big AAA MMOs that cost hundred(s) of millions of $ are history. The kicker is - if you want a MMO that has a lot of stuff - it really does cost a lot ot make.
    Not really if the content are the players.
    This is what current developers don't understand.
    If you build a Social MMO which revolves around people, you don't need a ton of content to have fun.
    Players will create their own fun if they are given the tools.


  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    ste2000 said:
    Malabooga said:

    MMOs will always have their small niche audience, but for time being, big AAA MMOs that cost hundred(s) of millions of $ are history. The kicker is - if you want a MMO that has a lot of stuff - it really does cost a lot ot make.
    Not really if the content are the players.
    This is what current developers don't understand.
    If you build a Social MMO which revolves around people, you don't need a ton of content to have fun.
    Players will create their own fun if they are given the tools.


      Again, only as small niche product. The big problem with MMOs was that publishers/developers greatly overestimated their planned income (of course, everyone was eyeballing WoW)
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